136 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkitekt]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Farbautisonn, I didn't pick it up, but are you saying that the Relays blew up the systems where they are placed? About that little detail, I think that you are exagerating your case here.

-Even if we dont have an "arrival" esque detonation, we still have a significant release of energy in the shape of a shockwave. If that release is close to a habitable planet It will still have dire consequenses for that planet. Its even a part of one of the endings... you end up killing the reapers but scortching your own planet.

Yes, but space you know... is pretty big. I mean mindboggingly big. You simply have no idea how big space is.

Seriously now. We are talking about hundreds of millions of kilometers. Most systems you visit in ME2 and ME3, the relays seem to be away from every planet. Even if we are talking about a "planet wrecking explosion", it would fade out in an inverse proportion to the square distance, i.e., pretty quickly, way less than a million km.

This does not seem to be a problem at all. Wouldn't you agree?

-I saw it as hard to avoid given the empirical evidence given up to the point where we initiate the explosion. All of the detonations and shockwaves are violent. And yes, discharging the relays would amount to "damming up" an explosion, discharging a significant degree of the energy to avoid a catastrophic and uncontrolled detonation. But, the problem is that none of this is ever touched upon. So... what are we to believe?

Your eyes. The explosions are different, seem less violent, and there is a clear lore explanation spoonfed to you by the same cutscenes: the relays discharge the whole mass effect fields throughout the network. I don't think that a codex entry is necessary here.

-Ermn... are we watching the same vid? Did we play the same game? What happens at 1.29? That looks like a relay going up in bits to me. 

The blue ending does not have the Relay blowing up. Only violently discharging the mass effect field. You assume it blows up because you see all the others doing so, but the blue version does not show this at all. Pay attention you'll see I'm right about this.

You're right they do shatter and wreck. But they do not explode. That was what I initially meant to say (my memory falted a bit there).

Modifié par Arkitekt, 03 avril 2012 - 02:11 .

[kbct]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Even if we dont have an "arrival" esque detonation, we still have a significant release of energy in the shape of a shockwave. If that release is close to a habitable planet It will still have dire consequenses for that planet. Its even a part of one of the endings... you end up killing the reapers but scortching your own planet.

At least enough energy to rip the part of the Normandy wing off (probably more) and force a crash landing. I wonder what happened to the rest of the ships?

[D.I.Y_Death]

L00p wrote...

D.I.Y_Death wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

I have to love tldr back and forths which are always compounded with the generic "I really don't have time to deal with you", just after you wrote a wall of text. Pretty funny.

I have the courtesy to tell someone why I refuse to interact with them, is that a problem?
L00p, I'd love to see some examples, I've remined neutral in just about every thread I've posted in within 24 hours. So please, show me an example of my circular logic and whatever else you're goin on about. Otherwise you can vacate my thread, thanks in advance.

Relax, I was referring to The Razman.
Although I am very much inclined to include you on my ****list too, witnessing your latest "performance" in this thread.
For now, I will give you the benefit of doubt.

You quoted me and Fab arguing followed by a resonse, it gives me the impression you're talking to me and Fab, not Fab and Raz or you would have either mentioned Raz in your post or quoted a post with Raz and Fab in it.

My "performance" isn't for you to judge, I don't know how you could think a comment like that was a good idea.

[Farbautisonn]

D.I.Y_Death wrote...
Oh they're logical, but you can't comprehend the scope of the analogy and thus go back to square 1, the details. Except the details weren't important in that particular analogy. It might seem like I'm getting snappy but I assure you I'm not, I just have no tolerance for this kind of sillines.

-And yet people should have tolerance for your kind sillyness. Is that the logic? And if they are so logical... how come you have to explain them? 

Now lets flash forward and skip the analogy. Rupturing a relay via an asteroid obviously creates a violent explosion and release of energy. Ugh can't really go into it more without using spoilers but the other way that the relays release energy shot a gigantic beam of energy then exploded.

-Yes. However that still leaves a very powerfull shockwave, a detonation? And destroyed relays. True or false? 

One is a violent reaction resulting in a star system getting blown up and one shoots most of that energy before exploding, minimalizing the damage that would have occured if you, blew up a relay without the use of the crucible.

- I accept that. I know enough about explosives to know how to dam them up and direct energy. So... why did we need an analogy again? And besides even a dammed explosion has to transfers energy to its surroundings. Not just in the direction it is directed. We see the energy transfer very clearly an in one scenario it even decimates earth. So... the force of the explosion is still very much significant.

You misunderstand how analogies can be used. In this instance the point of the analogy was to drive you away from being anal retentive with the details, because you simply weren't getting it. Did you pass greade 12 english? This is really basic stuff man, I don't even have to tell my 12 year old cousin this...

-Grats? And good job on the ad hominems too. End even better job at getting your spelling consistently in a twist and then questioning others about passing "greade" 12 english. Thats just grand. 

More like I have better things to do that waste time arguing semantics with someone who can't even comprehend the magnitude of the thesis and how the analogies relate.

-And yet you came back. Oh thank you... thank you kindly, sah...

If you understood it would have been clear but instead you get caught on the insignificant details and refuse to move past.

-Circular logic much? 

Plus when I deal with people like you I tend to get rude, start flaming and that's just no good. As is I want to slap your English teacher for failing you so badly so instead I'll say it once more: Have a good life.

-Well, You are right about the rude and flaming bit. As for my english teacher failing me... not as hard as whoever tried to teach you about logic or rhetoric did apparently.

Modifié par Farbautisonn, 03 avril 2012 - 02:17 .

[kbct]

Arkitekt wrote...

Yes, but space you know... is pretty big. I mean mindboggingly big. You simply have no idea how big space is.

Seriously now. We are talking about hundreds of millions of kilometers. Most systems you visit in ME2 and ME3, the relays seem to be away from every planet. Even if we are talking about a "planet wrecking explosion", it would fade out in an inverse proportion to the square distance, i.e., pretty quickly, way less than a million km.

We know a supernova explosion is one of the most power forces in the universe. In a short period of time, a supernova can release as much energy as our sun does in its entire lifetime. If the relays don't cause a supernova, the emitted energy would have to be many orders of magnitude less for it not to cause massive destruction everywhere.

"A near-Earth supernova is a supernova close enough to the Earth to have noticeable effects on its biosphere. Depending upon the type and energy of the supernova, it could be as far as 3000 light-years away. Gamma rays from a supernova would induce a chemical reaction in the upper atmosphere converting molecular nitrogen into nitrogen oxides, depleting the ozone layer enough to expose the surface to harmful solar and cosmic radiation. This has been proposed as the cause of the Ordovician–Silurian extinction, which resulted in the death of nearly 60% of the oceanic life on Earth."

Modifié par kbct, 03 avril 2012 - 02:25 .

[Farbautisonn]

Arkitekt wrote...

Yes, but space you know... is pretty big. I mean mindboggingly big. You simply have no idea how big space is.

-And neither do you. Point? 

Seriously now. We are talking about hundreds of millions of kilometers. Most systems you visit in ME2 and ME3, the relays seem to be away from every planet. Even if we are talking about a "planet wrecking explosion", it would fade out in an inverse proportion to the square distance, i.e., pretty quickly, way less than a million km.

This does not seem to be a problem at all. Wouldn't you agree?

-Well. Again. Im not an expert on stellar singularities or astronomical shockwaves. But an uncontrolled detonation of a relay can destroy an entire system. That means to me as a layman, that even if the majority of the energy is dispersed, there will still be enough of a shockwave to engulf a planet or two possibly detonating them. That causes asteroids and all sorts of other crap. Its not a very "neat" solution even if its controlled.

Your eyes. The explosions are different, seem less violent, and there is a clear lore explanation spoonfed to you by the same cutscenes: the relays discharge the whole mass effect fields throughout the network. I don't think that a codex entry is necessary here.

-Not the whole. Because if the "whole" mass field was released though the network there would be no detonation, no shockwave. You said something about eyes again? 

You're right they do shatter and wreck. But they do not explode. That was what I initially meant to say (my memory falted a bit there).

-The "blue" doesnt. But there is something that irks me. Because when I look further on to the vid, I clearly see blue "flashes" on the relay map. Now... Those flashes (using your logic) should not be present as most (all) of the energy is dispersed through the relays. It seems as if those flashes are explosions, not just relays breaking up.

[Arkitekt]

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Yes, but space you know... is pretty big. I mean mindboggingly big. You simply have no idea how big space is.

Seriously now. We are talking about hundreds of millions of kilometers. Most systems you visit in ME2 and ME3, the relays seem to be away from every planet. Even if we are talking about a "planet wrecking explosion", it would fade out in an inverse proportion to the square distance, i.e., pretty quickly, way less than a million km.

We know a supernova explosion is one of the most power forces in the universe. In a short period of time, a supernova can release as much energy as our sun does in its entire lifetime. If the relays don't cause a supernova, the emitted energy would have to be many orders of magnitude less for it not to cause massive destruction everywhere.

The mass effect fields were discharged, the following blowing up seems to be pretty much alike all blowing ups of ordinary large space stations. Pretty straightforward.

"A near-Earth supernova is a supernova close enough to the Earth to have noticeable effects on its biosphere. Depending upon the type and energy of the supernova, it could be as far as 3000 light-years away. Gamma rays from a supernova would induce a chemical reaction in the upper atmosphere converting molecular nitrogen into nitrogen oxides, depleting the ozone layer enough to expose the surface to harmful solar and cosmic radiation. This has been proposed as the cause of the Ordovician–Silurian extinction, which resulted in the death of nearly 60% of the oceanic life on Earth."

Why do you need to spice it up like that? From that same article it clearly states that theory says that type 1a supernovae need to be close to 33 LY to have "an effect" on Earth, let alone scorching it. 33 LY is enough to be worried. However, these relay explosions do not seem to be of the Supernova type. Look at them again.

[D.I.Y_Death]

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Yes, but space you know... is pretty big. I mean mindboggingly big. You simply have no idea how big space is.

Seriously now. We are talking about hundreds of millions of kilometers. Most systems you visit in ME2 and ME3, the relays seem to be away from every planet. Even if we are talking about a "planet wrecking explosion", it would fade out in an inverse proportion to the square distance, i.e., pretty quickly, way less than a million km.

We know a supernova explosion is one of the most power forces in the universe. In a short period of time, a supernova can release as much energy as our sun does in its entire lifetime. If the relays don't cause a supernova, the emitted energy would have to be many orders of magnitude less for it not to cause massive destruction everywhere.

"A near-Earth supernova is a supernova close enough to the Earth to have noticeable effects on its biosphere. Depending upon the type and energy of the supernova, it could be as far as 3000 light-years away. Gamma rays from a supernova would induce a chemical reaction in the upper atmosphere converting molecular nitrogen into nitrogen oxides, depleting the ozone layer enough to expose the surface to harmful solar and cosmic radiation. This has been proposed as the cause of the Ordovician–Silurian extinction, which resulted in the death of nearly 60% of the oceanic life on Earth."

Cool learned something new, didn't know about the Ordovician–Silurian extinction.
Now it's my turn
http://www.dailygala...ever-recor.html

The largest explosion ever recorded. Just a cool fact.

What does a supernova have to do with a gate being destroyed by by the crucible? I understand the relation between a mass relay blowing up via asteroid but the crucible's effect isn't nearly that extreme. I can't post spoilers here but watch the ending video for a good screen of how large the explosions are.

[Jayce]

The Razman wrote...


Do you kill some to save everyone?

By definition, if you're killing some you're NOT saving everyone.

And you really CAN'T accept that logic because brownian motion throws in so many variables you simply cannot make that prediction and say it with a straight face. Using the same logic, you can claim that somewhere out there is a planet made from cheese. It is possible... but it's more likely that heat death of the universe will occur first.

Starboy's claims are not based on logic and maths, they're based on sophistries and assumptions.

Faub pretty much hits the nail on the head when he made the shark / crocodile comparision, the Reapers are an evolutionary dead end. The cycle is little more than a moral fig leaf to justify one spiecies attempting to remain top of the food chain.

Modifié par Jayce F, 03 avril 2012 - 02:36 .

[kbct]

Arkitekt wrote...
The mass effect fields were discharged, the following blowing up seems to be pretty much alike all blowing ups of ordinary large space stations. Pretty straightforward.

Why do you need to spice it up like that? From that same article it clearly states that theory says that type 1a supernovae need to be close to 33 LY to have "an effect" on Earth, let alone scorching it. 33 LY is enough to be worried. However, these relay explosions do not seem to be of the Supernova type. Look at them again.

Energy was still released and a shockwave was created. It clearly created enough energy and force to rip off part of the Normandy's wing (probably much more) and force it to crash land on a amazingly convenient garden planet. Who knows how far away the Normady was when the shockwave caught up to it.

Most of mass relays aren't even 1 light year away (let alone 33 light years) from the major civilizations in the galaxy.

[D.I.Y_Death]

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
The mass effect fields were discharged, the following blowing up seems to be pretty much alike all blowing ups of ordinary large space stations. Pretty straightforward.

Why do you need to spice it up like that? From that same article it clearly states that theory says that type 1a supernovae need to be close to 33 LY to have "an effect" on Earth, let alone scorching it. 33 LY is enough to be worried. However, these relay explosions do not seem to be of the Supernova type. Look at them again.

Energy was still released and a shockwave was created. It clearly created enough energy and force to rip off part of the Normandy's wing (probably much more) and force it to crash land on a amazingly convenient garden planet. Who knows how far away the Normady was when the shockwave caught up to it.

Most of mass relays aren't even 1 light year away (let alone 33 light years) from the major civilizations in the galaxy.

I always made the assumption that was while traveling inside a relay and having the beam catch up, somewhat overwhelm and force the crash, not a shockwave from the relay being destroyed.

[Arkitekt]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Well. Again. Im not an expert on stellar singularities or astronomical shockwaves. But an uncontrolled detonation of a relay can destroy an entire system. That means to me as a layman, that even if the majority of the energy is dispersed, there will still be enough of a shockwave to engulf a planet or two possibly detonating them. That causes asteroids and all sorts of other crap. Its not a very "neat" solution even if its controlled.

"Can" does not equate to "Will". A relay when explodes without the ME3 endings discharge seem to bring about a supernovae. When they discharge it first, you are completely groundless in your conclusion that there "still be enough of a shockwave to engulf a planet or two". Where did you get these numbers? You're completely making it up.

-Not the whole. Because if the "whole" mass field was released though the network there would be no detonation, no shockwave. You said something about eyes again?

Multiple things could have happened, and some of the possibilities could very well entertain the sudden absence of mass effect fields as the event that triggered the destruction of the relays. There's nothing that shows there will be a supernovae type of explosion, and the whole story seems to point otherwise (otherwise we would have a gleeful army waving in London just to be wiped out by a white frakball of fire just some hours later).

-The "blue" doesnt. But there is something that irks me. Because when I look further on to the vid, I clearly see blue "flashes" on the relay map. Now... Those flashes (using your logic) should not be present as most (all) of the energy is dispersed through the relays. It seems as if those flashes are explosions, not just relays breaking up.

I read those blue waves as similar to the blue wave that reaches Charon Relay. You need those "waves" to "spread" the news to every Reaper that is out there that they are in control.

Modifié par Arkitekt, 03 avril 2012 - 02:54 .

[Arkitekt]

kbct wrote...

Energy was still released and a shockwave was created. It clearly created enough energy and force to rip off part of the Normandy's wing (probably much more) and force it to crash land on a amazingly convenient garden planet. Who knows how far away the Normady was when the shockwave caught up to it.

Wasn't the Normandy inside the relay network that was being shattered?

Most of mass relays aren't even 1 light year away (let alone 33 light years) from the major civilizations in the galaxy.

Why do you pound on that point? I admitted as such. It does not prove that this was an explosion of that sort.

[kbct]

D.I.Y_Death wrote...

The largest explosion ever recorded. Just a cool fact.

What does a supernova have to do with a gate being destroyed by by the crucible? I understand the relation between a mass relay blowing up via asteroid but the crucible's effect isn't nearly that extreme. I can't post spoilers here but watch the ending video for a good screen of how large the explosions are.

The mass relay in the Arrival DLC caused a "supernova" like explosion. The god-child says the mass relays will be destroyed. You can argue all mass relays exploded in the same fashion at the end of ME3.

Or not. You can also argue all mass relays didn't explode in the same fashion. However, we do see the mass relays release energy and a shockwave powerful enough to destroy the Normandy after it presumably made it to another solar system (with a sweet garden planet).

For that energy and shockwave to be powerful enough to destroy ships and weak enough to have zero effect on the atmospheres of inhabitable planets is a neat trick.

Even if no planet is affected, it still creates other problems for "stranded" civilizations.

Modifié par kbct, 03 avril 2012 - 03:04 .

[Arkitekt]

kbct wrote...

The god-child says the mass relays will be destroyed. You can argue all mass relays exploded in the same fashion at the end of ME3.

Yes, this is true. I think that BioWare could have exposed the difference of the explosion better. Perhaps by showing some more seconds of the explosion and further showing how it was much less violent. Perhaps by other manners. I agree that as it is, it's sufficiently short to cause some confusion.

Or not. You can also argue all mass relays didn't explode in the same fashion. However, we do see the mass relays release energy and a shockwave powerful enough to destroy the Normandy after it presumabely made it to another solar system (with a sweet garden planet).

No, the Normandy was clearly still inside the relay stream.

[kbct]

Arkitekt wrote...

No, the Normandy was clearly still inside the relay stream.

That's fine but the codex says relay travel is instantaneous. Again, we have conflicting evidence.

[D.I.Y_Death]

kbct wrote...

D.I.Y_Death wrote...

The largest explosion ever recorded. Just a cool fact.

What does a supernova have to do with a gate being destroyed by by the crucible? I understand the relation between a mass relay blowing up via asteroid but the crucible's effect isn't nearly that extreme. I can't post spoilers here but watch the ending video for a good screen of how large the explosions are.

The mass relay in the Arrival DLC caused a "supernova" like explosion. The god-child says the mass relays will be destroyed. You can argue all mass relays exploded in the same fashion at the end of ME3.

Or not. You can also argue all mass relays didn't explode in the same fashion. However, we do see the mass relays release energy and a shockwave powerful enough to destroy the Normandy after it presumabely made it to another solar system (with a sweet garden planet).

For that energy and shockwave to be powerful enough to destroy ships and weak enough to have zero effect on the atmosphere's of inhabitable planets is a neat trick.

Even if no planet is affected, it still creates other problems for "stranded" civilizations.

Doesn't the empirical data suggest that the relays don't explode like the one in Arrival? When the crucible is used the explosion seemed much smaller.

[Arkitekt]

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

No, the Normandy was clearly still inside the relay stream.

That's fine but the codex says relay travel is instantaneous. Again, we have conflicting evidence.

Yes, there's conflicting evidence. However, by "instantaneous" we should probably read "very very quickly". You just need a few seconds of time for the sequence to make sense. Even the Omega 4 relay sequence takes seven seconds or something.

[D.I.Y_Death]

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

No, the Normandy was clearly still inside the relay stream.

That's fine but the codex says relay travel is instantaneous. Again, we have conflicting evidence.

Smart people would argue that when traveling FTL time slows. Special theory of relativity ftw!
But a smarter person would point out that creates massive time gaps and the ME story couldn't possibly happen within a 3-5 year window.
Hmmm. Isn't this a pickle?

[Arkitekt]

D.I.Y_Death wrote...


Smart people would argue that when traveling FTL time slows. Special theory of relativity ftw!

No, actually smart people would argue that FTL is impossible, and that its effects on time are as insane as dividing 1 by 0. Theory of relativity is utterly shredded by Mass Effect lore. I just try to ignore it.

[Farbautisonn]

Arkitekt wrote...

"Can" does not equate to "Will". A relay when explodes without the ME3 endings discharge seem to bring about a supernovae. When they discharge it first, you are completely groundless in your conclusion that there "still be enough of a shockwave to engulf a planet or two". Where did you get these numbers? You're completely making it up.

-Look at the video. Trust your eyes. There is a major explosion a detonation. The "arrival" detonation was enough to engulf a system. A controlled detonation doesnt equate safe. Im not making it up. Im calculating on it. I think its a likely scenario. Certainly more likely than "big ass explosion-no fallout-despire earth getting torched".

Multiple things could have happened, and some of the possibilities could very well entertain the sudden absence of mass effect fields as the event that triggered the destruction of the relays. There's nothing that shows there will be a supernovae type of explosion, and the whole story seems to point otherwise (otherwise we would have a gleeful army waving in London just to be wiped out by a white frakball of fire just some hours later).

-As I believe the wiki tells us, the explosion if you dont have enough warassets is enough to "decimate" earth. The explosion doesnt have to be supernova-esque to wreak havoc. Just has to be nova-esque. A nova or merely a detonation that sends big chunks of debree toward earth is catastrophic enough.

I read those blue waves as similar to the blue wave that reaches Charon Relay. You need those "waves" to "spread" the news to every Reaper that is out there that they are in control.

And yet those waves are dangerous high energy beams. Or Joker would have zero problem navigating them.

[kbct]

D.I.Y_Death wrote...

Doesn't the empirical data suggest that the relays don't explode like the one in Arrival? When the crucible is used the explosion seemed much smaller.

We have to speculate. We don't know. It can be interpreted several ways. I haven't scrutinized the ending scene because, quite frankly, I think there are more plotholes besides the uncertainity regarding the "destruction" of the mass relays. However, from what I did see, the relays broke apart, and then the camera panned out to show a wave/shockwave disperse across the galaxy. Did it create supernova-like explosions or did it create harmless waves of space magic that controlled, destroyed, or synthesized certain creatures in the galaxy? I don't know.

What I do know is we have to loosely interpret the codex, assume away previous examples, and interpret the god-childs words in the most favorable light for the destruction of the relays to be harmless.

[D.I.Y_Death]

Arkitekt wrote...

D.I.Y_Death wrote...


Smart people would argue that when traveling FTL time slows. Special theory of relativity ftw!

No, actually smart people would argue that FTL is impossible, and that its effects on time are as insane as dividing 1 by 0. Theory of relativity is utterly shredded by Mass Effect lore. I just try to ignore it.

Well if you want to go down that road theory of relativity might not be right correct, big debate on that going on in the science community.

In anycase I wouldn't say FTL is impossible, but if we can do it it's gonna take some serious quantum mechanics and power sources that don't rely on burning the sludgey remains of creatures that once were (fossil fuels).

ME lore seems to have a ton of holes and they don't seem to undertsand what dark matter and energy actually are. Might just be best to throw science out when dealing with the ME universe, lol.

[Arkitekt]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Look at the video. Trust your eyes. There is a major explosion a detonation. The "arrival" detonation was enough to engulf a system. A controlled detonation doesnt equate safe. Im not making it up. Im calculating on it. I think its a likely scenario. Certainly more likely than "big ass explosion-no fallout-despire earth getting torched".

You're calculating it? What the hell does that even mean? Are you measuring the explosion in TNT units from the videos? Come on, you know you cannot measure the explosions. You are just making the assumption that it's a bigass explosion and then conclude that it's a bigass explosion.

Even if you assume that the relay explosion is equal to the Citadel one, the Citadel is hovering Earth by a few hundred kms, perhaps a couple thousand. Earth measures 12k km of diameter. This blast would reach, say, the moon, which is 400k km away around a thousand times less intensive. And that's the moon.

If we are to "calculate" the effects on Mars, and put an arbitrary number on its distance, say 200 million kms (orbits, etc.), some 250 million times fainter.

You sure you are making calculations here?

-As I believe the wiki tells us, the explosion if you dont have enough warassets is enough to "decimate" earth. The explosion doesnt have to be supernova-esque to wreak havoc. Just has to be nova-esque. A nova or merely a detonation that sends big chunks of debree toward earth is catastrophic enough.

What debris? Where did you get this debris? Charon is 9 billion kms away. Its "debris" would be reduced to nothing in a sphere of that radius size. What the frak are you talking about?

And yet those waves are dangerous high energy beams. Or Joker would have zero problem navigating them.

Joker's problem was that the relay was being shutdown while he was still in it.

[Farbautisonn]

Arkitekt wrote...

D.I.Y_Death wrote...


Smart people would argue that when traveling FTL time slows. Special theory of relativity ftw!

No, actually smart people would argue that FTL is impossible, and that its effects on time are as insane as dividing 1 by 0. Theory of relativity is utterly shredded by Mass Effect lore. I just try to ignore it.

-If there is one thing a peek at our history books tells us, its that nothing is impossible. We just have to create an invironment where it is possible. We have slowed down light to what... 60km/h... So why cant we "speed it up"? 

Didnt they once claim that breaking the sound barrier would cause your plane to violently explode or  something?