186 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

I had more fun with Mass Effect 3, but that also might boil down to my personal preferences.

Bethesda and Bioware RPGs have a very different approach. Bethesda focuses more on large sandbox enviroments where the world is the main draw, rather than the characters in it. Bioware RPGs are more character and story driven, with the characters populating the world being the main draw.

I tend to find Bioware RPGs to be much more immersive because of the greater emphasis on characters and story, but that is just a personal preference. Other people might prefer Bethesda's focus on sandbox enviroments.

[MsKlaussen]

Zmidponk wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

The difference between Skyrim and ME (as it relates to your post) however, is that with the construction kit every one of those issues can be fixed, and half of them have already. There are very easy to implement mods which quickly and effectively rethink and readjust the skill trees, adjust overall difficulty of the game either up or down, reintroduce spellmaking, recalculate adherence to level scaling, etc.

An hour after I discovered Skyrim Nexxus I had exactly the Skyrim installation I wanted. And then some. There are so many mods for it on that site alone it would take me another 8 months to get through them.

1000x this.  It's the runaway success of the modding scenes in games, principally the TES games, that make me wonder what in the blue **** EA/Bioware are thinking in making their games more and more difficult to mod.  Hell, even Morrowind still has something of a community on the go, thanks to mods, and that's coming up on the 10th anniversary of release.  As for Skyrim, people were so keen to get modding for that game that the Skyrim Nexus site hit something like 6500 mods before the Construction Kit was even released.

As for the actual subject of this thread, frankly, comparing Skyrim with the Mass Effect games is utterly nonsensical.  They're both, broadly speaking, RPGs - but that's about the sole thing they have in common.  Mass Effect is sci-fi, Skyrim is fantasy.   Mass Effect is about being lead through a story, making decisions that affect that story (leaving the ending of ME3 aside, for a moment), Skyrim is where you're someone in the middle of a world, free to do pretty much whatever you want, including completely ignoring the main questline, if you so choose.  About the only way you could have a more meaningless comparison is if you were comparing Skyrim with FIFA.

Hehe - I do have to admit I was really really surprised even after having followed the series since Arena that a few short weeks after Skyrim's debut modders were already forced to create a custom mod manager to even have a prayer of reigning in and organizing the mods on their own site, not to mention any others.

And yes that was with the mod creators saying in readme files "just wait until the kit shows up!" And of course before Bethesda even considered floating rumors of a discussion on expansion packs.

I also love that the difference between the game on release day and the game after the first patch a week later or so in terms of stability was impressive. Since I installed that in November I have never CTD again, even after hours with the game running. Incidentally, I've been playing since November pretty much constantly and I still have a full task list despite not following a single guild quest line or bothering with the civil war at all. Just ignore Fast Travel, and the world is yours!

[kleindropper]

Fallout NV was better than Skyrim. Skyrim had its own issues with short questlines, simplistic character development, and lack of reward and treasure.

EDIT: Modding may save Skyrim, just not for me as I've moved on.

Modifié par kleindropper, 04 avril 2012 - 01:21 .

[Cainne Chapel]

So i'm expected to enjoy a game w/mods and then compare it to one where mods dont factor in?

I dont quite get it. but ok.

I'm sure skyrim is fun, but ...eh just aint my cup of tea

as for the 100hr vs 10hr.

I said I'd take a 10hr action packed fun ride over a 100hr bore fest anyday.
100hrs is an arbitrary number that means next to nothing if the game isn't my cup of tea or fun for me to play. Hell I've spent over 100hrs in ME3 at this point through multiple playthroughs and i've much enjoyed those more than I'd enjoy Skyrim.

Nothing against skyrim mind you.... but its just not for everyone, much like ME3 isn't for everyone.


a game shouldn't need to be modded to be fun or workable. simple fact of the matter.

[Dr. Jacko]

I'd like to point out that delaying a game without at least 6 months' notice generally results in GameStop suing the **** out of you, then eviscerating your children and devouring their innards.

[Ylhaym]

Nepp wrote...
Well, technically DAO was finished in 2007, the EA merger put a halt to it while it was ported and polished.

My mistake then... Thank  you for pointing that out, i didn't know that 

I didn't get why Skyrim is still highly praised though...  I bought the hype and everything. I even told my friends that "OMG SKYRIM MIN 300HRS PER PLAYTHROUGH!". I just couldn't play anymore after 100hrs... Obsidian proved to everyone that you can have a good story with good characters in a sandbox game... While the game is fun to play at first...  the story and characters in Skyrim is just 

Modifié par Ylhaym, 04 avril 2012 - 03:53 .

[Priisus]

Skyrim can't beat Morrowind.

[MsKlaussen]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

So i'm expected to enjoy a game w/mods and then compare it to one where mods dont factor in?

I dont quite get it. but ok.

I'm sure skyrim is fun, but ...eh just aint my cup of tea

as for the 100hr vs 10hr.

I said I'd take a 10hr action packed fun ride over a 100hr bore fest anyday.
100hrs is an arbitrary number that means next to nothing if the game isn't my cup of tea or fun for me to play. Hell I've spent over 100hrs in ME3 at this point through multiple playthroughs and i've much enjoyed those more than I'd enjoy Skyrim.

Nothing against skyrim mind you.... but its just not for everyone, much like ME3 isn't for everyone.


a game shouldn't need to be modded to be fun or workable. simple fact of the matter.

It doesn't "need" to be modded. It simply can be, in any way its fanbase wants, and was developed specifically to allow that. With that said, it is certainly not for everyone. The genre itself is not for everyone. Some will simply continue to find RP/adventure games about as exciting as 2 for 1 root canal day. And that's perfectly cool.

But still - another simple fact. Nobody dissing the player enabling modding capabilities or approach to development should have their mouths open about the ME ending, gameplay dynamics or mechanics, Bioware/EA listening to the fanbase, the mandatory optional multiplayer game, or any of the other 1300 complaints I've seen on here. Not if they're going to cluck about developers who give them the power to make the game in their own image.

I am fairly sure that I'll be able to hear a pin drop if everyone muttering about modding philosophy from Bethesda was asked to speak up a little louder concerning their opposition to TES-like modding power in ME. Honestly the more I listen to, the more I have to agree with those who have referred to the discontented as primadonnas. Seems they wouldn't be happy if they were given the very pen that wrote the story so to speak and the inalienable power to use it. It would evidently be a testament to the games "weakness" as shipped.

For me? It means that when I say I want to ride a Silt Strider, the next thing I'll say is I can see my house from the saddle of one. Despite them being gone since Morrowind. In fact, there's really nothing stopping me from buzzing Blue Palace in the Normandy either, except my own immersion snobbery.

Signed,

Still agree with the discontented, in principle

[wowpwnslol]

Skyrim is a terrible game.

[JediHealerCosmin]

I don't like Skyrim so...

[Cainne Chapel]

MsKlaussen wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

So i'm expected to enjoy a game w/mods and then compare it to one where mods dont factor in?

I dont quite get it. but ok.

I'm sure skyrim is fun, but ...eh just aint my cup of tea

as for the 100hr vs 10hr.

I said I'd take a 10hr action packed fun ride over a 100hr bore fest anyday.
100hrs is an arbitrary number that means next to nothing if the game isn't my cup of tea or fun for me to play. Hell I've spent over 100hrs in ME3 at this point through multiple playthroughs and i've much enjoyed those more than I'd enjoy Skyrim.

Nothing against skyrim mind you.... but its just not for everyone, much like ME3 isn't for everyone.


a game shouldn't need to be modded to be fun or workable. simple fact of the matter.

It doesn't "need" to be modded. It simply can be, in any way its fanbase wants, and was developed specifically to allow that. With that said, it is certainly not for everyone. The genre itself is not for everyone. Some will simply continue to find RP/adventure games about as exciting as 2 for 1 root canal day. And that's perfectly cool.

But still - another simple fact. Nobody dissing the player enabling modding capabilities or approach to development should have their mouths open about the ME ending, gameplay dynamics or mechanics, Bioware/EA listening to the fanbase, the mandatory optional multiplayer game, or any of the other 1300 complaints I've seen on here. Not if they're going to cluck about developers who give them the power to make the game in their own image.

I am fairly sure that I'll be able to hear a pin drop if everyone muttering about modding philosophy from Bethesda was asked to speak up a little louder concerning their opposition to TES-like modding power in ME. Honestly the more I listen to, the more I have to agree with those who have referred to the discontented as primadonnas. Seems they wouldn't be happy if they were given the very pen that wrote the story so to speak and the inalienable power to use it. It would evidently be a testament to the games "weakness" as shipped.

For me? It means that when I say I want to ride a Silt Strider, the next thing I'll say is I can see my house from the saddle of one. Despite them being gone since Morrowind. In fact, there's really nothing stopping me from buzzing Blue Palace in the Normandy either, except my own immersion snobbery.

Signed,

Still agree with the discontented, in principle

Not dissing modding, did it quite a bit with Fallout and even a few mmos i've played.  I'm just saying some games are built for modding, some aren't, but we shouldn't use that as a judgement for how good or not a game is.

ME series has never been about modding the world etc etc like the elderscolls and fallout have been, they dont even try to be.  Its a great merit FOR elder and fallout obviously. (though I have modded ME2 and 1 in a fashion with gibbed and what not, but the system just isn't designed for modding apparently)

I was merely stating that those are two completely different spectrums and merely noted that while Skyrim may be AWESOME with mods.  it shouldn't NEED mods to be awesome and enjoyable and fix issues.  Thats all.

[Tirigon]

That is true.