57 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadowLordXII]

And this doesn't mean that the company is perfect, nobody is perfect.

For instance, killing off a cool character within the first hour of Dragon Age: Origins and Bastilla's existence and actions are my personal grips.  That and the stuff surrounding Mass Effect 3's ending.

But Bioware is still one of my favorite gaming companys because of the stories that every game has and the involvement that even the so-called weakest games possess.

I've played KOTOR, KOTOR 2 (it wasn't bioware, but bioware recommended them and worked with a lot of the staff that worked on it, so I'm counting it), Mass Effect 1-2 and the Dragon Age series and they're all some of the best games that I've ever played.  Some are better than others, I'm not going to lie.  But the level of care played in the characters, the story and the challenges that shape out your player character are stuff that I've seen few games match.  In my mind, they were made by people who knew their craft.

Yet, again and again, I've heard so many fans complain about how Bioware is losing it's roots or betraying it's fans all because of a single game that they've played.  Not to say that they don't have valid reasons, but to call the company as a whole a failure simply because of a single game like Dragon Age 2 or because something was changed and therefore it somehow sucks...

In short, I'm sick of the haters who base their opinions on a single game or because something in the sequel was different from the last game so that means the sequel automatically sucks.  Or that they're cancelling their preorder for a future title based on something that may not have anything to do with it.  And I especially don't like gamers who jump on a bandwagon and say that they hate a game they've never played.

And maybe that stuff about the Mass Effect 3 ending does warrent the mass riots that it has considering what that game is about.  But does that mean the game itself is bad?  Or that Bioware is a terrible company?  I hated the ending to the anime, Gurren Lagann, but I'm not going to flag Gainax as being the devil.  Anders going behind my back was a wtf to my character, but I will admit that it was a good plot twist that set the plot into a point of no return.

Maybe I am missing something though, so any thoughts people?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Different people have different opinions and different viewpoints which leads to different reactions. Sometimes, these reactions and opinions are in direct contradiction with the reactions and opinions of others.

Who'd have thunk it?

(It really is that simple - not everyone shares your opinions, reactions and perspective on things. Or mine for that matter.)

How one conducts themselves as a result of such opinions is the more important bit here. Though, I find it odd that you condemn people cancelling pre-orders or saying that BioWare's games are bad. Instead of say, condemning the abhorrent treatment of Mrs. Hepler, or how a select few wanted to renege on a charity pledge.

But cancelling pre-orders and saying BioWare's games aren't good? Are people not entitled to do those things? Is that really such a great sin?

Modifié par CrustyBot, 03 avril 2012 - 08:09 .

[Chromie]

I'm more annoyed by the people who complain about people complaining.

[Lucy Glitter]

Sure, ME3 was a huge disappointment, but that's not the DA team's fault.

Nor does it make all their other games suddenly crap, I agree.

[Rorschachinstein]

They're called PC elitist. You know who you are punks.

[HanErlik]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Sure, ME3 was a huge disappointment, but that's not the DA team's fault.

Nor does it make all their other games suddenly crap, I agree.

The same thing was said after DA2's release: "Yes this game is junk but ME3 is developing by another team. I trust them".

By the way, when we ("haters" you can call us) say "Bioware sucks" we don't mean "Baldur's Gate, KotOR, NWN, DA:O suck". We hate new Bioware, we are aware of difference between Bioware Corp and "a Division of EA".

[Calbeb]

Mass Effect 3 had an awful ending.

Dragon Age 2 had problems.

Both of those games contained amazing experiences that I loved. Mass Effect 3 especially was an incredibly emotional experience to me overall.

People can complain, but I am still a fan.

Modifié par Calbeb, 03 avril 2012 - 06:17 .

[Calbeb]

Double Post Whoops

Modifié par Calbeb, 03 avril 2012 - 08:38 .

[AkiKishi]

In most cases it's justified and just made worse by the people who prefer to stick there fingers in their ears , go lalalala and pretend everything is wonderful.

[Calbeb]

BobSmith101 wrote...

In most cases it's justified and just made worse by the people who prefer to stick there fingers in their ears , go lalalala and pretend everything is wonderful.

So those of us who disagree with you about the company selling out are deluding ourselves?

[AkiKishi]

Calbeb wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

In most cases it's justified and just made worse by the people who prefer to stick there fingers in their ears , go lalalala and pretend everything is wonderful.

So those of us who disagree with you about the company selling out are deluding ourselves?

I was thinking more along the lines of specific game issues rather than politics.

[esper]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Calbeb wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

In most cases it's justified and just made worse by the people who prefer to stick there fingers in their ears , go lalalala and pretend everything is wonderful.

So those of us who disagree with you about the company selling out are deluding ourselves?

I was thinking more along the lines of specific game issues rather than politics.

But it's the politics or highly subjective issues that people complain about the loudest.

[Calbeb]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I was thinking more along the lines of specific game issues rather than politics.

I can agree with a great number of the complaints and admit that it does not cause enough of an issue to hurt my overall experience. I also understand players who those issues bother more and their desire to see the issues rectified.

But most of the time when people yell me down for liking the products, it's because I won't admit that Bioware/EA are sell-outs and that Bioware is full of liars.

It gets to be incredibly frustrating, when you can't even talk about the aspects of the games you found special or enjoyed without someone deciding that you are thus an idiot.

[Cyne]

The closer you get to perfection, the more you want it. Bioware's excellence is ironically the cause of the dissatisfaction. Not to say there isn't room for improvement, of course.

Modifié par Cyne, 03 avril 2012 - 08:55 .

[Calbeb]

Cyne wrote...

The closer you get to perfection, the more you want it. Bioware's excellence is ironically the cause of the dissatisfaction. Not to say there isn't room for improvement, of course.

I agree with you completely.

he Mass Effect situation is a perfect indication of that. The moments in that game, and the previous installments that really hit people made their dissapointment that the expected lack of impact due to choices in the finale really hit them for a complete loop.

It seems like people's expectations were so high that it would have been impossible to truly succeed. That they tried something and failed was even worse.

[The Elder King]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Sure, ME3 was a huge disappointment, but that's not the DA team's fault.

Nor does it make all their other games suddenly crap, I agree.

From your words, it seems you liked/loved DA2, so of course a single failing (ME3) wouldn't change your overall opinion of Bioware.
For me, DA2 was a huge disappointment (although the game isn't as garbage as people claimed), and ME3 failed in the last part of the game (in terms of writing, or better the lack of writing) and in forcing people to play MP, but it was overall better than DA2 (I wasn't expecting a full RPG, as in DA2's case).
At least I could finish it without waiting a patch or finding a solution to the Matrix speed bug, and because it wasn't rushed as DA2.
Though I agree that there's no reason to say "Bioware sucks", Bioware is free of developing their games as they like. If people don't like how their new (or modified) direction, they should not buy their games. Insulting will not change anything.

Modifié par hhh89, 03 avril 2012 - 09:03 .

[Well]

Calbeb wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

I was thinking more along the lines of specific game issues rather than politics.

I can agree with a great number of the complaints and admit that it does not cause enough of an issue to hurt my overall experience. I also understand players who those issues bother more and their desire to see the issues rectified.

But most of the time when people yell me down for liking the products, it's because I won't admit that Bioware/EA are sell-outs and that Bioware is full of liars.

It gets to be incredibly frustrating, when you can't even talk about the aspects of the games you found special or enjoyed without someone deciding that you are thus an idiot.

Is that like those folks that label you haters,whiners,entitiled,kids...ect..ect..love the Disneyland ending talking point.
You have the right to your opinion as does everyone else.What people don't have the right to is mine or anyone elses.Also if your(general statement) attacking others don't expect to not have it returned.DA 2 and ME 3 are just ok with me but if it was peaches and cream to others more power to them.You paid for your game not me so if you enjoyed.Cool.I didn't but I paid for mine and so know one else can dictate if I enjoyed it or not.

[philippe willaume]

@OP
You know that you are using the same blanket statement that the people you complain about use to build their own argument.

About ME3 there is a fair amount of the population, that don’t like the ending because it is not consistent with itself, totally lack exposition as regard to the decision made during the game and does not close the story for the companion still alive and hence is well below par compared with the rest of the game which does all the above brilliantly.
That same amount of the population doesn’t want a Disney ending and have recognised that the game was good and that some play though will make sense with the way the endings are presented.

Or for DA:2 the same person can easily appreciate that there are cases where DA:2 combat, which I don’t like, is better than DA:0 or recognise that rivalry Andres side of the story does drastically improve DA:2 Act III compared to friendship Anders and yet complain that ACTIII fells rushed, has less content and not as good as the rest of the game or not as well executed that the ending of DA:0.

Sure there are quite many visceral posts in ME3 threads, but surely I do not have that special a critical sense, that you can’t, like me takes those post for what they are.

Philippe

Modifié par philippe willaume, 03 avril 2012 - 11:04 .

[Korusus]

ShadowLordXII wrote...
Maybe I am missing something though, so any thoughts people?

Thank goodness BioWare has thicker skin than you.  I think they can take it.  And hopefully they will integrate the criticism and deliver better performances in the future. Talking about the flaws in ME3 or DA2, and not just sweeping them under the rug, does not make someone not a fan.  

Like it or hate it, I know that BioWare is capable of making an intrinsically better game than DA2 turned out to be.  And if in order to get BioWare themselves to see that we as fans have to nudge their sore spot ("BioWare has changed" "BioWare has gone EA") etc.  then so be it.

It's up to BioWare to get mad and say "Oh yeah, you think so...well how about THIS" and DA3 is awesomesauce.

[VampOrchid]

No one is perfect. So how can a company full of PEOPLE be perfect. That's why I love Bioware, it's very people orientated. No matter the game, I always seem to have fun and feel for my character. So to me...good job on bringing those characters to life.

Even if there are things that bugged you about the games, chances are it's because you cared enough about it to begin with...so that's just good people doing their jobs properly, regardless of the outcome.

Kudos to the staff!

[Dragoonlordz]

Rorschachinstein wrote...

They're called PC elitist. You know who you are punks.

Thats not really true, I am a PC player but I seem to be one of the few keeps trying to be positive about them these days and countering the negativity others spout about the developer they 'chose' to buy games from. If those people hate Bioware or their products so much they can just go buy something else or from someone else.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 avril 2012 - 03:28 .

[Dejajeva]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

They're called PC elitist. You know who you are punks.

Thats not really true, I am a PC player but I seem to be one of the few keeps trying to be positive about them these days and countering the negativity others spout about the developer they 'chose' to buy games from. If those people hate Bioware or their products so much they can just go buy something else or from someone else.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I for sure feel animosity from some PC gamers that makes me feel uncomfortable because I prefer to play on console. I get the vibe that some of the hardcore rpgers blame people like me (and me, by default) for their dislike of certain games. I get frustrated when I hear that people believe games are "dumbed down" so console players can enjoy them, and although I may not get all of the terms or understand all of the lingo of classic crpg's, I am most certainly not "dumb", nor do I think that all console players are as well.

I choose to ignore it, for the most part, because I love the community and the story and the games. But there are PC elitists here and that's just how it is.

Notice I said some and not all.

[Plaintiff]

In any area that allows customers to provide feedback, the mjority of said feedback is going to be complaints. The fact is that people feel more compelled to report a perceived "problem" than they do to say that they liked or even loved something.

[JadeSelket]

We are very lucky to have a company who takes the time to use forums, and social media websites to find out what WE want in the next game. Not many companies do this, they don't -have- to do it.

DA2 wasn't a huge disappointment, and I don't play ME...but they are working on a solution to the ending, no? They don't have to do that either.