423 réponses à ce sujet

[Funkdrspot]

When i hear people talk bad about the ending, i don't quite understand how the relays blowing up factors into the plot holes or the whole 'everyones gonna die/back to midevil times' ideas.

Did i miss something or are people in Mass Effect times somehow completely helpless and totally unable to hunt/farm? It sounds like a FTL-extension of '1st world problems'. I just don't get the idea of complaining about transportation difficulties when the alternative is galaxy wide genocide.

It's not like earth is overpopulated at the moment. Plenty of beach front property in London and Canada, that's for sure.

As far as the plot hole about the relays not asploding entire solar systems, I always assumed that because the radius of the endgame blast were covering each star cluster ( cluster>>>>>system ), that the energy wasn't as concentrated.


*****   edit *****
Ok i'm getting tired of being asked the same questions so I'll try to lay out my theories for all of it.

- Starvation issue. The Reapers target large cities, not rural areas. The
whole 'OMG Quarians and Turians will starve' thing has already been
shown to be overblown as D-proteins occur naturally and can be
synthesized NOW so you KNOW they can be made with better tech. Will some people have it tough? Sure, but they'll survive which is the point.

- Relays blowing up. The
idea that the relays blow up the solar system has already been
addressed and is refuted by the different destroy endings. Obviously the
crucible CAN fry planets (BAD destroy ending) but if you built it well enough it doesn't(every other ending). Simply put, there's a difference between releasing RAW energy ( slamming an asteroid into Alpha ) and the 
crucible converting the relays energy into a form of radiation. Basic chem teaches that the larger the radius you have to energize, the more diffuse the
energy is going to be.

Whatever the crucible releases is some form of
radiation that bathes the entire star cluster the relay is in which is
1000x of times larger in radius than blowing up a single solar system. It's converting that raw energy from the relay and turning it into a controlled burst not unlike a radio station tower.

- Citadel falling to earth. Lastly
the whole, nuclear winter from the citadel falling back to earth is
wrong too b/c the citadel has little to no kinetic energy behind it. We
fear extinction level events from asteroids because they travel 25km/s
or 90,000km/h. It's the kinetic energy behind the asteroid that makes it
the threat, not the asteroid itself.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 03 avril 2012 - 07:31 .

[iorveth1271]

I think you missed the fact that there will be no farming and hunting when there's no worlds to hunt or farm, let alone live on. Mass Relay destructions, according to Arrival, lead to Supernovas, the energy used to destroy the relay doesn't matter there. I dunno why everyone believes people in the Sol system will starve. The way I see it they would most likely just get pulverized.

Modifié par iorveth1271, 03 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Billabong2011]

My problem isn't the fact that they blow up.
It's how they blew up.
Limiting and limited color explosions aside, the lack of narrative logic in the destruction of the mass relays is unforgivable, as was the rest of that poorly written, plot-hole riddled, intelligence insulting, convoluted and contrived thing they call an ending.
EDITED: To add, I wouldn't find the ending 'unforgivable' if it were only depressing - it's the fact that it's unjustified that bothers me. I love tragic stories. This was only tragic in that the lore and construct of the Mass Effect universe was entirely obliterated in all of five minutes.

Modifié par Billabong2011, 03 avril 2012 - 07:54 .

[Witty_Innuendo]

Apart from the different diets of alien species, a collapse of any sort of 'galactic' civilization, the ambiguity in some endings of whether destroying synthetics will also destroy Quarian suits, spaceships, implants etc.

It just isn't good for what should be an ending leaving so many questions. Really, it is bad storytelling to show that a relay blowing up will wipe out an entire star system (Arrival DLC) but in the last minute have the same thing happen without explaining how exactly it is different. With the info at hand, the destruction of systems is what should have happened. That it didn't is rightly considered a plot hole.

[NYG1991]

Arrival DLC shows that destroying a relay results in an explosion equal to a supernova which wipes out all surrounding planets. The game shows an explosion with a blast wave but leaves it up to the player to fill in the details about whether or not they killed everybody.

[Tombfyre09]

don't forget earth will also soon have a 44km space station falling to it in 2 of 3 endings... lol... will the destruction ever end!?

Modifié par Tombfyre09, 03 avril 2012 - 07:54 .

[Funkdrspot]

iorveth1271 wrote...

I think you missed the fact that there will be no farming and hunting when there's no worlds to hunt or farm, let alone live on. Mass Relay destructions, according to Arrival, lead to Supernovas, the energy used to destroy the relay doesn't matter there. I dunno why everyone believes people in the Sol system will starve. The way I see it they would most likely just get pulverized.

To everyone responding the same way, I've already answered this in what I see as logical.

Slam an asteroid to a mass relay = solar system explosion

Crucible energy beam = same energy released but to ALL solar systems within that cluster 



It's like lighting a drop of gas on the ground vs in your cylinder.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 03 avril 2012 - 07:57 .

[Warden130]

The Crucible destroying a Mass relay is differant than slamming an asteroid into one (which was the Alpha Relay as well). Just think people! Don't yell plot hole at every little thing cause the endings were bad.

[Shaoken]

iorveth1271 wrote...

I think you missed the fact that there will be no farming and hunting when there's no worlds to hunt or farm, let alone live on. Mass Relay destructions, according to Arrival, lead to Supernovas, the energy used to destroy the relay doesn't matter there. I dunno why everyone believes people in the Sol system will starve. The way I see it they would most likely just get pulverized.

*sigh* Asteroids colliding into Relays at faster-than-light speeds leads to Supernovas, because the energy is released violently. The ending clearly shows that a lot of energy is shot out through the relay before it breaks apart, and changes the colour of it, so presumably that changes the type of it to something less explodey.

[sedrikhcain]

No mass relays = no efficient interstellar travel = no galactic community.

the Milky Way as it's portrayed in ME could no longer exist. That game world we all loved and worked so hard to save? It's no longer possible.

[Witty_Innuendo]

Warden130 wrote...

The Crucible destroying a Mass relay is differant than slamming an asteroid into one (which was the Alpha Relay as well). Just think people! Don't yell plot hole at every little thing cause the endings were bad.

But the ending is filled with so many contradictions to established 'norms' that there comes a point where you just shake your head. Too many 'This is a special scenario' rewrites just completely diminishes any kind of coherence.

[Ieldra]

@OP:
Here are some reason why people are upset about it:

The relays blowing up fragments galactic civilization into isolated clusters of a few hundred ly radius at best, into isolated star systems at worst. Which means the ME universe as a fictional setting will be destroyed. Most of here have some connection to that universe, to the places, peoples and characters of the ME universe in their interconnectedness. Removing that is like destroying the fundament on which our imagination rests. If we want to imagine what happens after, we first need to rebuild the world.

The second aspect is that the destruction of the relays destroys all the closure achieved by playing the game to that point, because all we have achieved is suddenly open again. The results of all our decisions will be different because of it.

The third aspect is that we all set out to save galactic civilization from the Reapers. *This* galactic civilization, not some unknown one 10k years from now. That's what the story always was about. To see it end like this feels like a failure. It feels like Shepard died for nothing.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 avril 2012 - 07:58 .

[wright1978]

Railroading relay destruction into appalling ending choices really gets my goat and is utterly stupid.
Sorry i'd prefer to go down swinging than doom the galaxy to a galactic dark age. Guess it is crazy to actually want choice in the ending.

That beach front property may very well soon going to be home to billions of fast breeding Krogan.

As far as explosions are concerned the only evidence we have is arrivial which you think they would at least refute as a parrallel in game.

[likta_]

Funkdrspot wrote...

When i hear people talk bad about the ending, i don't quite understand how the relays blowing up factors into the plot holes or the whole 'everyones gonna die/back to midevil times' ideas.

Did i miss something or are people in Mass Effect times somehow completely helpless and totally unable to hunt/farm? It sounds like a FTL-extension of '1st world problems'. I just don't get the idea of complaining about transportation difficulties when the alternative is galaxy wide genocide.

It's not like earth is overpopulated at the moment. Plenty of beach front property in London and Canada, that's for sure.

As far as the plot hole about the relays not asploding entire solar systems, I always assumed that because the radius of the endgame blast were covering each star cluster ( cluster>>>>>system ), that the energy wasn't as concentrated.

Assuming because of space magic the relays don't go supernova, earth is not in good shape. Entire continents are BURNING, quite a few shots missed the reapers and hit earth, each with the force of a nuclear bomb. The Citadel blew up in 2/3 endings and will crash into earth, doing further damage. There will be no sunlight for an incredible amount of time, so few plants, fewer animals etc.

An insane amount of ships blew up over earth, poisoning everything with eezo. A lot of living things will die of this, some will become biotic. If there is anything the survivors don't need, its ****ing biotic grizzlys.

Infrastructure is gone, completely. Deseases, Starvation, war over what's left will ensue.

[Billabong2011]

Shaoken wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

I think you missed the fact that there will be no farming and hunting when there's no worlds to hunt or farm, let alone live on. Mass Relay destructions, according to Arrival, lead to Supernovas, the energy used to destroy the relay doesn't matter there. I dunno why everyone believes people in the Sol system will starve. The way I see it they would most likely just get pulverized.

*sigh* Asteroids colliding into Relays at faster-than-light speeds leads to Supernovas, because the energy is released violently. The ending clearly shows that a lot of energy is shot out through the relay before it breaks apart, and changes the colour of it, so presumably that changes the type of it to something less explodey.

Yes, this also leaves me wondering just what happens when all of that amassed 'massless' energy (as having traveled through the mass relays - wow try saying that 5 times fast...) reaches the last existing relay. It won't have anywhere to go, no other relay to connect to.
Fascinating to think about.
Too bad the ending was too atrocious to merit any sort of philosophical significance.

[Funkdrspot]

sedrikhcain wrote...

No mass relays = no efficient interstellar travel = no galactic community.

the Milky Way as it's portrayed in ME could no longer exist. That game world we all loved and worked so hard to save? It's no longer possible.

1st world problems. Your options are to stop crying, rebuild the mass relays and rebuild civilization or galaxy wide genocide.

In a way, it FITS because the reapers made the citadel. They made the relays. They can be made again. Will trade and travel suffer? Sure but it beats being liquified into a McReaper McNugget.

[fafnir magnus]

"Although it has recently been
shown that mass relays can be destroyed, a ruptured relay liberates enough
energy to ruin any terrestrial world in the relay’s solar system. It would take too long to evacuate the
millions or billions of people living near each relay, and the Council is
unwilling to sacrifice that many lives when combat stands a chance of saving
them. Etc…"

this is the codex entry people are discussing. The point is the relay is ruptured. Pretty sure an exploded relay is ruptured. It does not say its because of an asteroid.

If you're CLAIMING that all energy was dissipated before it broke apart, I'd say that's a lot of unsubstantiated speculation, whereas my statement that they wiped out livable planets has in-game text backing it up yours just has your own interpretations with no in-game support.

[cutegigi]

Shaoken wrote...

*sigh* Asteroids colliding into Relays at faster-than-light speeds leads to Supernovas, because the energy is released violently. The ending clearly shows that a lot of energy is shot out through the relay before it breaks apart, and changes the colour of it, so presumably that changes the type of it to something less explodey.

the fact that there are 0 explanation inside the game in form of codex or even starchild explaination regarding your speculation, means as of now, its still a plot hole. 
Largely depends on your headcanon.

[Homey C-Dawg]

The relay explosions are big enough that the Normandy has trouble outrunning the sol one.

Mordin and Legion and co. had epic deaths. Everyone else gets to be fried by a galaxy wide storm of supernovas.

[Witty_Innuendo]

Funkdrspot wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

No mass relays = no efficient interstellar travel = no galactic community.

the Milky Way as it's portrayed in ME could no longer exist. That game world we all loved and worked so hard to save? It's no longer possible.

1st world problems. Your options are to stop crying, rebuild the mass relays and rebuild civilization or galaxy wide genocide.

In a way, it FITS because the reapers made the citadel. They made the relays. They can be made again. Will trade and travel suffer? Sure but it beats being liquified into a McReaper McNugget.

And my question is how do you remake them in time? Surely by the time you figured out the technology, gathered enough resources to build it, and then build a connecting relay, you would have died from mass starvation (Quarians and Turians on different diets), polution, etc.

Modifié par Witty_Innuendo, 03 avril 2012 - 08:04 .

[Funkdrspot]

likta_ wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

When i hear people talk bad about the ending, i don't quite understand how the relays blowing up factors into the plot holes or the whole 'everyones gonna die/back to midevil times' ideas.

Did i miss something or are people in Mass Effect times somehow completely helpless and totally unable to hunt/farm? It sounds like a FTL-extension of '1st world problems'. I just don't get the idea of complaining about transportation difficulties when the alternative is galaxy wide genocide.

It's not like earth is overpopulated at the moment. Plenty of beach front property in London and Canada, that's for sure.

As far as the plot hole about the relays not asploding entire solar systems, I always assumed that because the radius of the endgame blast were covering each star cluster ( cluster>>>>>system ), that the energy wasn't as concentrated.

Assuming because of space magic the relays don't go supernova, earth is not in good shape. Entire continents are BURNING, quite a few shots missed the reapers and hit earth, each with the force of a nuclear bomb. The Citadel blew up in 2/3 endings and will crash into earth, doing further damage. There will be no sunlight for an incredible amount of time, so few plants, fewer animals etc.

An insane amount of ships blew up over earth, poisoning everything with eezo. A lot of living things will die of this, some will become biotic. If there is anything the survivors don't need, its ****ing biotic grizzlys.

Infrastructure is gone, completely. Deseases, Starvation, war over what's left will ensue.

Rebuild the infrastructure.

- Diseases? C'mon are you serious? How is that suddenly going to be an issue? Did they lose all their medical advances suddenly too? Were those advances somehow tied to the relays? No.

- Starvation? Plant some stuff & eat it. 

- War? Possibly, but you don't cry over POTENTIAL war when the alternative is death.

[cutegigi]

Funkdrspot wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

No mass relays = no efficient interstellar travel = no galactic community.

the Milky Way as it's portrayed in ME could no longer exist. That game world we all loved and worked so hard to save? It's no longer possible.

1st world problems. Your options are to stop crying, rebuild the mass relays and rebuild civilization or galaxy wide genocide.

In a way, it FITS because the reapers made the citadel. They made the relays. They can be made again. Will trade and travel suffer? Sure but it beats being liquified into a McReaper McNugget.

Im not aware anyone beside the reapers have the capabilities to made a relay.
Maybe I missed something. Could you kindly provide source please ?

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Funkdrspot wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

I think you missed the fact that there will be no farming and hunting when there's no worlds to hunt or farm, let alone live on. Mass Relay destructions, according to Arrival, lead to Supernovas, the energy used to destroy the relay doesn't matter there. I dunno why everyone believes people in the Sol system will starve. The way I see it they would most likely just get pulverized.

To everyone responding the same way, I've already answered this in what I see as logical.

Slam an asteroid to a mass relay = solar system explosion

Crucible energy beam = same energy released but to ALL solar systems within that cluster 



It's like lighting a drop of gas on the ground vs in your cylinder.

Sorry but all that is is :lol:SPECULATION:lol:

All we know for certain and from previous history is that when you blow up a Relay the relay goes Nova.

[Astrogenesis]

Ok
In Arrival, we slammed an asteroid in to a relay.
(Who cares if its the alpha relay, it makes no difference, its just a name given to it because its the one the reapers will arrive at.)
In Mass Effect 3, we fire an intense beam of light at it, causing it to explode. The resulting exposion can be seen reaching much further than the boundries of the Sol system.

If Bioware wanted us to see that the relays no longer worked, they could have just stopped them from spinning and then had a puff of space magic that spread across the galaxy.
But no.
Bioware blew them the hell up.
Everybody dies, nobody goes home.
Just like Arrival.

Modifié par Astrogenesis, 03 avril 2012 - 08:07 .

[iorveth1271]

Shaoken wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

I think you missed the fact that there will be no farming and hunting when there's no worlds to hunt or farm, let alone live on. Mass Relay destructions, according to Arrival, lead to Supernovas, the energy used to destroy the relay doesn't matter there. I dunno why everyone believes people in the Sol system will starve. The way I see it they would most likely just get pulverized.

*sigh* Asteroids colliding into Relays at faster-than-light speeds leads to Supernovas, because the energy is released violently. The ending clearly shows that a lot of energy is shot out through the relay before it breaks apart, and changes the colour of it, so presumably that changes the type of it to something less explodey.

I wonder what proof you have to back that up. We learned that Mass Relay destructions lead to Supernovas. There was nothing different stated ever before. If they decided to change that in the last seconds of the franchise, it makes the ending even worse. You can only retcon narrative coherence for so long.

Also, QFT:

Astrogenesis wrote...

In Mass Effect 3, we fire an intense beam of light at it, causing it to
explode. The resulting exposion can be seen reaching much further than
the boundries of the Sol system.

If that huge explosion which can be seen from an external view of our galaxy is not a supernova, I wonder what explanation Bioware will bring up to make that work.

Modifié par iorveth1271, 03 avril 2012 - 08:07 .