423 réponses à ce sujet

[Quietness]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Unless you use head cannon to create a brand new excuse than there is only 1 precedent set for when a Mass Relay blows (and they all blow). A lot of people like to operate inside of pre-stated cannon and pre-stated cannon says that all those explosions you saw were exactly that.

You're almost right.  There's one precedent set for when you destroy a mass relay by ramming it with an asteroid.  None at all for whatever actually happens in the endings.  So we don't have enough information to know what would happen.  I admit that my ideas are speculation and probabilities.  What we do know is that life survives the destruction of the relays which suggests that something else happens than when you destroy a relay with an asteroid.

My problem is that i dont see the difference, blowing up is blowing up, doesnt matter what you do to blow it up. We dont know where joker lands in relation to the super nova, so we dont know if its inside of the blast radius. That is the only real life we know that exists after the relay blows up( Sorry i dont consider Shepard considering the last Planet fall we saw turned Shep into what was equated to Meat and Tubes, and this was without being blown up multiple times )

[The Almighty Ali]

Mass Relay explosion = Blast large enough to rival a supernova and will erradicate all life on all planets within the same solar system as the Relay, Which is essentially all of them. Including our own. Thus you pretty much blew up earth.

Lack of relay = no interstellar travel as fast as before. A ship could go from one solar system to another in a matter of days or hours, lose the relays and we're talking years, decades or centuries.
Also how on earth would there be food and fuel enough for such travel?

This is of course based upon what we learned from Arrival, Say " Oh but it's a different kind of explosion" makes as little sense as when the kid you played with when you were little said his fire attacks couldn't be extinguished by water because it was different. So saying that was the case means Bioware turn to a 6 year old's mentality on the matter.

Even in SCI-FI there's a sense of logic in it.

[survivor_686]

Don't forget the "Relay Explosion = Death" is reinforced in the codex entry "Desperate Measures"

"Destroying a mass relay to stop the Reapers' advance is infeasbile. Although it has recently been proven that mass relays can be destroyed, a ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in the relay's solar system."

So...we basically nuked an entire system, regardless of what happens. I believe in all endings the Relays break apart in a colorful explosion.

[Tanis1983]

Funkdrspot wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Again, all of this can be rebuilt. It provides a way for tech to deviate from what the reapers want

so.. it can be rebuild for sure because...... you say it can ??

In one form or another I don't see why not. SOMEONE had to build it so that means you can make it again.

The Protheans made a mini-relay on IIos so why another one couldn't be made is beyond me. Probably just your defeatist attitude.

The reapers built the relays, and the citadel, they're no longer around. The protheans only built the conduit because they had the relays to use as references for downscaling.

Everything you're saying thus far is your own interpretation, uninformed as it is, stated as though it were fact. The Codex entry in arrival, clearly states that the planets are destroyed when a Relay is ruptured, REGARDLESS of what ruptured it.

All this talk of surviving post-explosion is pointless, as all planets surrounding a relay were rendered uninhabitable.

Uninhabitable means they can't be lived on by the way. "Planting seeds" won't work, nothing will grow. "Hunting" won't work, all the animals are dead.

The destruction of the Relays = the destruction of all life connected to them. Period.

Modifié par Tanis1983, 03 avril 2012 - 03:50 .

[Militarized]

SimKoning wrote...

Militarized wrote...

SimKoning wrote...


Or they get in their starships and travel to the nearest garden world. At most it will only take about a decade, which shouldn't be a problem since many ships seem to have cryo pods. Failing that, I don't see why they couldn't adjust their mass effect fields to allow for more time dilation. If they can do that, then a ten year trip might only take a week in ship time...

You might want to think about how vast/empty space is. Gardens worlds are not a dime a dozen, and intragalactic travel is impossible with the FTL technology/lore in ME. ME1 specifically states galactic travel is -impossible- without the Relays. It is very black and white about that. 

The stargazer scene is also 10k years in the future and they don't have space flight yet, it's all a myth/story(which means no records? Technology lost?). 

Face it, they pushed the big "reset" button, that's what the adam and eve reference planet is for... setting everything back. It's a ridiculous plot device but it is what it is. 

You might want to think about how insanely fast 12 light years a day is. At those speeds you could go to the edge of the galaxy and back in about a dozen years; that's 60,000 light years round trip and there are 100 to 300 billion stars in our galaxy. Too many people are going off that one line thrown out by Nihilus, while ignoring what the codex says and of course, reality itself. To put things in perspective, 12 light years per day means that you could get to Proxima Centauri in less than a day.... that's absurdly fast. It's as if the mass relays have everyone spoiled.

 

It's not entirely about speed, Nihilis says this not because the Relays get you there quicker but because of how the FTL works in Mass Effect. It is unsuited to intragalactic travel because the drive core builds up a magnetic charge and they can only discharge it in a specific type of planets atmosphere... I know the ingame plays differently but it's just a game mechanic. This is how the lore works. Thus why I said you need to think about the vastness/emptiness, it's not feasible. 

You would blow up your entire ship trying to get out of your local systems before you found a suitable planet, if any at all, to discharge your core into. Let alone Eezo being rare/hard to mine in the first place. It's an issue not of speed but of design and logistics, it simply doesn't work in the ME lore like it does in Star Trek. 

Modifié par Militarized, 03 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[Beti88]

"I don't get the hysteria over the relays blowing up"

The destruction of a mass relay causes a supernova like explosion, destroying the system. With all mass relays destroyed practically all the civilisations in the galaxy has been eradicated. The Reapers bodycount pales in comparison next to Shepards. Oh, and the remaining civilisations are screwed too, because theres no FTL travel now on.

[Transgirlgamer]

Quietness wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Unless you use head cannon to create a brand new excuse than there is only 1 precedent set for when a Mass Relay blows (and they all blow). A lot of people like to operate inside of pre-stated cannon and pre-stated cannon says that all those explosions you saw were exactly that.

You're almost right.  There's one precedent set for when you destroy a mass relay by ramming it with an asteroid.  None at all for whatever actually happens in the endings.  So we don't have enough information to know what would happen.  I admit that my ideas are speculation and probabilities.  What we do know is that life survives the destruction of the relays which suggests that something else happens than when you destroy a relay with an asteroid.

My problem is that i dont see the difference, blowing up is blowing up, doesnt matter what you do to blow it up. We dont know where joker lands in relation to the super nova, so we dont know if its inside of the blast radius. That is the only real life we know that exists after the relay blows up( Sorry i dont consider Shepard considering the last Planet fall we saw turned Shep into what was equated to Meat and Tubes, and this was without being blown up multiple times )

Except blowing up isn't always the same.  You can have controlled explosions.  The difference is that in Arrival, the destruction was from an external source, in ME3, it was using a system inside the relays themselves.  We don't know what system that is, it could be something that was specifically designed to allow the relays to be destroyed whilst not eradicating the star systems they're in.

As to where Joker lands in relation to the 'super nova' (I use quotes as it's not an actual supernova which is a specific thing in astrophysics.) that doesn't matter, we see the wave pass across the Normandy.  Which means the Normandy was exposed to it and so was everyone inside the Normandy, yet people get out of the ship on whatever planet it is.  Therefore they survived it as I said.

[Mandemon]

There is one thing that makes me wonder..

Assuming that relays send their energy off before self-destructing (because that energy has to go somewhere and relays have enough energy to rival supernova), what happens when last relay is hit? Does it suddenly contain all energy of every other relay? What happens when THAT one blows up?

I mean, if single relay = supernova, then 1000*relays = 1000*supernova amount of energy.

[Funkdrspot]

Seriously how many of you guys don't even bother to read my OP, then jump in asking questions that were already answered?!

The whole 'OMG Quarians and Turians will starve' thing has already been shown to be overblown as D-proteins occur naturally and can be synthesized NOW so you KNOW they can be made with better tech

The idea that the relays blow up the solar system has already been addressed and is refuted by the different destroy endings. Obviously the crucible CAN fry planets but if you built it well enough it doesn't. How you guys can't wrap your heads around the whole fact that the crucible using the relays energy is different than slamming an asteroid into a relay is beyond me. And anyone that has taken basic chem knows that the larger the radius you have to energize, the more diffuse the energy is going to be. Whatever the crucible releases is some form of radiation that bathes the entire star cluster the relay is in which is 1000x of times larger in radius than blowing up a single solar system.

Lastly the whole, nuclear winter from the citadel falling back to earth is wrong too b/c the citadel has little to no kinetic energy behind it. We fear extinction level events from asteroids because they travel 25km/s or 90,000km/h. It's the kinetic energy behind the asteroid that makes it the threat, not the asteroid itself.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 03 avril 2012 - 07:23 .

[Funkdrspot]

Mandemon wrote...

There is one thing that makes me wonder..

Assuming that relays send their energy off before self-destructing (because that energy has to go somewhere and relays have enough energy to rival supernova), what happens when last relay is hit? Does it suddenly contain all energy of every other relay? What happens when THAT one blows up?

I mean, if single relay = supernova, then 1000*relays = 1000*supernova amount of energy.

Seems to me that the relay's energy was converted to some form of controlled radiation burst, not unlike a massive radio station antenna.

[lillitheris]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

There is one thing that makes me wonder..

Assuming that relays send their energy off before self-destructing (because that energy has to go somewhere and relays have enough energy to rival supernova), what happens when last relay is hit? Does it suddenly contain all energy of every other relay? What happens when THAT one blows up?

I mean, if single relay = supernova, then 1000*relays = 1000*supernova amount of energy.

Seems to me that the relay's energy was converted to some form of controlled radiation burst, not unlike a massive radio station antenna.

That's not in evidence in any way. All we see is a burst going from one to another. The last one won't have an other.

[Funkdrspot]

Lol whut?! The evidence is right there in front of your eyes with the colored endings and the difference between the different destroy endings

I know Bioware did a bad job of giving details to the ending and they used 'speculation' as a crutch for bad storytelling, but its SciFi, not everything is meant to be spelled out in excruciating detail. You can use logical deduction. You don't need to be spoon fed all the answers.

[Provo_101]

Read the codex, OP. We have a clear precedent that proves relays go supernova when destroyed. We have NO proof or reason to think otherwise. They blow up, done deal. Not to mention, the galaxy map is visible in each ending, showing the radius of the supernova of each one, think of how FAR that is!

[Funkdrspot]

Provo_101 wrote...


Read the codex, OP. We have a clear precedent that proves relays go supernova when destroyed. We have NO proof or reason to think otherwise. They blow up, done deal. Not to mention, the galaxy map is visible in each ending, showing the radius of the supernova of each one, think of how FAR that is!

Because the codex is going to contain a contengent about the crucible.....

For SciFi fans, you guys sure are pretty narrow in your thought pattern.

You want proof? Go check out the end. There's your proof. The Citadel was a relay, threw out radiation over earth and either burnt it to a crisp or did nothing but destroy the reapers depending on how well you built the crucible.

Either way this has already been addressed. The total energy the relay has never changes, but the radius and the form of energy it releases is changed by the crucible. This is beyond implied. The ending illustrates exactly this. The only thing missing now is for someone to state the obvious and tell you what you're already seeing. But then if it did that then more people would cry that it's a console port or something like that.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 04 avril 2012 - 02:20 .

[Funkdrspot]

bump for bumping sake.

[Tov01]

I think that even if they won't be able to return to their homeworlds any time soon, the aliens around Earth can at least hobble to the nearest garden worlds.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Probably Mentioned but the whole Dilemma from Arrival was to blow up a Mass relay to hinder the reapers the Dilemma is that when a Mass relay blows up IT TAKES THE WHOLE SYSTEM WITH IT (lol caps) also the Turians and Qurians are going to Starve to death while the Krogan feast on all the Casualties and Diane Allers

[Funkdrspot]

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

Probably Mentioned but the whole Dilemma from Arrival was to blow up a Mass relay to hinder the reapers the Dilemma is that when a Mass relay blows up IT TAKES THE WHOLE SYSTEM WITH IT (lol caps) also the Turians and Qurians are going to Starve to death while the Krogan feast on all the Casualties and Diane Allers

Didn't bother to read the OP before posting i see...

[Tov01]

Funkdrspot wrote...

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

Probably Mentioned but the whole Dilemma from Arrival was to blow up a Mass relay to hinder the reapers the Dilemma is that when a Mass relay blows up IT TAKES THE WHOLE SYSTEM WITH IT (lol caps) also the Turians and Qurians are going to Starve to death while the Krogan feast on all the Casualties and Diane Allers

Didn't bother to read the OP before posting i see...

Though I have to admit, I find the image of Krogan feasting on Diana Allers funnier than I probably should.

Modifié par Tov01, 04 avril 2012 - 02:52 .

[moater boat]

Do you know anything about hunting/farming? Do you realize that farming, right now at the beginning of the 21 century is almost completely dependent on the infrastructure that the reapers would have destroyed? Farmers use incredibly expensive machines to do their jobs. These machines break down and need replacement part. They also need fuel. They even use GPS for navigation to ensure optimal use of farmland. I could go on and on, but if you think that farmers would be anywhere near as productive after a disaster like we saw in ME3 you are sorely mistaken. I would venture to say that if farmers managed to grow just 20% of the crop they grew the year before the Reapers attacked, it would be a miracle.

As for hunting, most people these days couldn't survive by hunting, in the future it would be far less. Hell, I'm a hunter and I don't think I could hunt well enough to feed myself and my family. Especially if every yahoo with a gun is trying to do the same thing.

The fact of the matter is that Earth is pretty screwed up and the only way that billions of people are not going to starve to death is if supplies are brought in from the colonies. An impossible feat without the mass relays.

[Sal86]

even if the relays explod in a completely contained way, it's still a great shame imo. Even if everyone can eventaully get back to their home planets (I don't think they can for reasons that have already been stated), it still rips apart the theme of galactic unity. Shepard brought the galaxy togther to face a common foe and rebuilding their homes would bring them together in a new common goal. That can't possibly happen with the relays gone. Perhaps that comes under the heading of what some people 'sunshine and rainbows' but, well.... so be it.

[Teroseth]

They exploded with enough power and force to be visible on the galaxy map. Look on that map, look at the size of star clusters, now look at the size of the explosions...some of the explosions overlap entire systems and spill into others...and that's in the best endings with everything done right.Then, even if we don't use visual evidence and we just accept that "well, it was safe controlled energy that was let out" great...and then what? It all just fizzled away? in the 5 seconds the relay took to explode moderately, all that energy safely escaped and became functionally inert? It goes against real life physics, it goes against in-game lore, it destroys the whole point of the game (who really won, the reapers wanting to wipe out advanced civilisations because they were advanced, or you, who destroyed the advanced means of transportation and therefore communication amongst advanced races, reducing the universe to the dark ages), it's just abhorrent.

[ThomaswBloom]

moater boat wrote...

Do you know anything about hunting/farming? Do you realize that farming, right now at the beginning of the 21 century is almost completely dependent on the infrastructure that the reapers would have destroyed? Farmers use incredibly expensive machines to do their jobs. These machines break down and need replacement part. They also need fuel. They even use GPS for navigation to ensure optimal use of farmland. 

First world farmers do yes.  A good 2 or 3 billion folks on this rock are fed with food grown using tools and methods that would be familiar to your great, great, great, grandparents.  Just sayin'.

Its one of the reason poor countries are poor.  'cause they're poor.  *shrug*

Peace.

[Patson259]

The main problem is your trapping all kinds of diff species in one very small area. Here on Earth we have enough problems just with eachother. Now imagine adding every1 else to the mix. The Krogan Turians and Salarians allready have a fragile alliance at best. If you did cure the Genophage whats to stop the Krogan from going nuts, and food is an issue no matter what way you cut it. It will take time to get that much for the survivors. Not to mention all the medical supplies that will also prolly be needed after the large battle. You basically doomed the whole Sol system, and everyone there.

[Tov01]

Patson259 wrote...

The main problem is your trapping all kinds of diff species in one very small area. Here on Earth we have enough problems just with eachother. Now imagine adding every1 else to the mix. The Krogan Turians and Salarians allready have a fragile alliance at best. If you did cure the Genophage whats to stop the Krogan from going nuts, and food is an issue no matter what way you cut it. It will take time to get that much for the survivors. Not to mention all the medical supplies that will also prolly be needed after the large battle. You basically doomed the whole Sol system, and everyone there.

Even if they can't get to their homeworld, it is entirely feasable for them to get to the nearest garden worlds. Benning, for example, as at most only a week away. (Arcturus is about 38 light years away, and Benning is probably no more than a day or two from Arcturus) The Turians and Quarians would have to travel farther. Unfortunately, we don't have enough information to tell just how far away the nearest dextro-based garden world is.