423 réponses à ce sujet

[moater boat]

ThomaswBloom wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Do you know anything about hunting/farming? Do you realize that farming, right now at the beginning of the 21 century is almost completely dependent on the infrastructure that the reapers would have destroyed? Farmers use incredibly expensive machines to do their jobs. These machines break down and need replacement part. They also need fuel. They even use GPS for navigation to ensure optimal use of farmland. 

First world farmers do yes.  A good 2 or 3 billion folks on this rock are fed with food grown using tools and methods that would be familiar to your great, great, great, grandparents.  Just sayin'.

Its one of the reason poor countries are poor.  'cause they're poor.  *shrug*

Peace.

Subsistance farming does not feed 2-3 billion people on Earth today. That's just crazy talk.

[ThomaswBloom]

*waves*

I skipped a couple pages in the middle of the thread. Did anyone cover the Quantum Entanglement communication stuff? Hundreds of pairs of these were made, if not thousands. Surviving fleet elements and major worlds would still be in communication. Coordination of a new relay network would still be possible.

And the construction of new relays wouldn't be the huge obstacle some of you are making it out to be. The com buoy network that the current cycle built uses mass relays. From the codex "Comm buoys are maintained in patterns built outward from each mass relay. The buoys are little more than a cluster of primitive, miniature mass relays. Each individual buoy is connected to a partner on another buoy in the network, forming a corridor of low-mass space. Tightbeam communications lasers are piped through these "tubes" of FTL space, allowing virtually instantaneous communication to anywhere on the network. The networks connect across regions by communications lasers through the mass relays." Clearly the current cycle knows enough about Mass Relays to build something useful.

The Protheons even built a small one on Ilos, and it wasn't the entire Protheon empire building it. It was the single star cluster (since the relay network was shut down in that cycles invasion) that was simultaneously fighting off the Reapers and building everything else on Ilos. Its not a matter of hundreds of years till a relay network gets built back out, the first new relays will be built in a decade or two.

As to the Navies stranded around Sol... really? These ships can move 12 light years a day. And these are huge fleets, they have support ships to carry supplies and fuel. You're thinking that there are surviving fleets and they can't find a harvestable/farmable/huntable eco system within a couple hundred light years?

The Citadel falling to Earth? Yep some of the bigger pieces will make a mess, but that thing was exploding into a billion pieces. The bigger parts won't all even be falling immediately into the earth. If there are surviving warships around earth the bigger pieces of wreckage will be towed or destroyed. It may take a couple minuets to get ships to stop shooting Reaper hulks, and focus on the wreckage but it would happen.

Finally, the gods eye view of the galaxy we get shows the explosions from the mass relay going out hundreds if not thousands of light years in a couple of seconds. Not at all what happened when the Alpha relay blew up. Whatever explosion happened there at the end of ME3 from the Mass relays wasn't anything Newtonian or Enstineian. Pure space magic and speculation.

tl;dr, no I don't know why some people think the mass relays blowing up is such a big deal. The crappy deus ex machina ending is a bigger deal. The writer taking over your Shepard after Thessia is a big deal. The crappy "should have just been a cut scene" that the nightmare sequences were, or the slow mo' fight to get to the beam, or the fight vs. Kai leng on Thessia, or where the hell was the Normandy going that it was in mid jump, or why did your squad mates that were on earth with you suddenly get back to the Normandy or..... yeah. Many other things to be unhappy about. The relays blowing up, pretty much ...meh.

[xMellowhype]

NYG1991 wrote...

Arrival DLC shows that destroying a relay results in an explosion equal to a supernova which wipes out all surrounding planets. The game shows an explosion with a blast wave but leaves it up to the player to fill in the details about whether or not they killed everybody.

SCREW YOUR LOGIC MAN.

[Richard 060]

What gets me is that the Codex entry backs up what we saw in Arrival, and yet the ending contradicts that.

The problem being, what good is the Codex if it's all mis-information?

Sure, you could say it's just the received information of the galaxy at the time, and the Catalyst, being an unknown quantity, doesn't apply.

But that's bad storytelling 101, right there - to establish given rules as being consistent throughout a series or storyline, and then thrown them out of the window at the last minute for the sake of a 'twist' ending that trumps all that we've seen before.


As comicbook legend John Byrne said in his criticism of the same trend in the recent 'Doctor Who' storylines:

"This is the way it is. This is the way it has always been. This is the way it shall always be. Except this once."

Modifié par Richard 060, 04 avril 2012 - 04:32 .

[Zolt51]

SimKoning wrote...

I find it interesting how all these space *colonies* are assumed to be devoid of biodomes... hell, it should be among the first things built on ANY colony situated on a hostile planet.

This^^^ having to ship in all the food to a colony does not make any kind of economic sense, even with relatively cheap space travel. 

"Civilian" colonies are usually located on garden worlds like Eden prime. The ones that are in hostile environments are usually research facilities.  So you don't have a huge number of people there... and these guys are scientists. Even if they don't already have a biodome / hydroponics food production, they have the skills to set up one.

The only case where a colony would be in serious trouble is if they can't grow their own food AND there isn't any world that can grow food within their cluster. Local space travel is still possible: At 12 LY/day they would have thousands of star systems within a few weeks travel.

Frankly, considering the tech level, I have a hard time imagining that food would be the major problem. Helium-3 would be more problematic, as the Reapers specifically targeted fuel depots and harvesting installations. Rebuilding these would have to be one of the first priorities.

[Zolt51]

Richard 060 wrote...

As comicbook legend John Byrne said in his criticism of the same trend in the recent 'Doctor Who' storylines:

"This is the way it is. This is the way it has always been. This is the way it shall always be. Except this once."

Doctor Who has been like this for decades, and unapologetic about it. Fans still love it anyway.

Hey in the latest Dr Who special, you see the Doctor get spaced (in his everyday clothes). Change into a space suit, and then survive re-entry and impact on earth. That definitely reminded me of one Commander Shepard.

[ThomaswBloom]

moater boat wrote...


Subsistance farming does not feed 2-3 billion people on Earth today. That's just crazy talk.

I didn't say subsistance farming, our hypothetical (200 years ago) grandparents fed cities with the surplus they produced using hand tools and animal power.   1 in 8 people globally are farmers.  So just under a billion people (?800 millionish?) to feed the 6 billion plus.  In the US there are less than a million farmers.  So not even 1 in 300 compared to the global average, and the US produces a huge surplus.  So yes, a big part of the third world is fed using nothing but hand tools and muscle power, because if we had hundreds of millions of farmers with the kind of output you get here in the US we could feed tens , if not hundreds of billions. 

Apologies to the OP.

/end threadjack

Modifié par ThomaswBloom, 04 avril 2012 - 04:47 .

[Zix13]

You do realize the galactic community that made the game interesting is gone without the relays right?

[Quietness]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Unless you use head cannon to create a brand new excuse than there is only 1 precedent set for when a Mass Relay blows (and they all blow). A lot of people like to operate inside of pre-stated cannon and pre-stated cannon says that all those explosions you saw were exactly that.

You're almost right.  There's one precedent set for when you destroy a mass relay by ramming it with an asteroid.  None at all for whatever actually happens in the endings.  So we don't have enough information to know what would happen.  I admit that my ideas are speculation and probabilities.  What we do know is that life survives the destruction of the relays which suggests that something else happens than when you destroy a relay with an asteroid.

My problem is that i dont see the difference, blowing up is blowing up, doesnt matter what you do to blow it up. We dont know where joker lands in relation to the super nova, so we dont know if its inside of the blast radius. That is the only real life we know that exists after the relay blows up( Sorry i dont consider Shepard considering the last Planet fall we saw turned Shep into what was equated to Meat and Tubes, and this was without being blown up multiple times )

Except blowing up isn't always the same.  You can have controlled explosions.  The difference is that in Arrival, the destruction was from an external source, in ME3, it was using a system inside the relays themselves.  We don't know what system that is, it could be something that was specifically designed to allow the relays to be destroyed whilst not eradicating the star systems they're in.

As to where Joker lands in relation to the 'super nova' (I use quotes as it's not an actual supernova which is a specific thing in astrophysics.) that doesn't matter, we see the wave pass across the Normandy.  Which means the Normandy was exposed to it and so was everyone inside the Normandy, yet people get out of the ship on whatever planet it is.  Therefore they survived it as I said.

Well the whole Joker dropping out of FTL suddenly without everyone dieing is a MASSIVE hole. The type of radiation they experience will kill them all instantly if this was to happen. 

There is no cannon set-up for what happened, i can appreciate your point of view but i won't believe it till im told that due to something that suddenly happened and had not to be explained it did not happen.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

It ends the Mass Effect universe as we know it...for ever.

This, among many other issues.

[moater boat]

ThomaswBloom wrote...

moater boat wrote...

ThomaswBloom wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Do you know anything about hunting/farming? Do you realize that farming, right now at the beginning of the 21 century is almost completely dependent on the infrastructure that the reapers would have destroyed? Farmers use incredibly expensive machines to do their jobs. These machines break down and need replacement part. They also need fuel. They even use GPS for navigation to ensure optimal use of farmland. 

First world farmers do yes.  A good 2 or 3 billion folks on this rock are fed with food grown using tools and methods that would be familiar to your great, great, great, grandparents.  Just sayin'.

Its one of the reason poor countries are poor.  'cause they're poor.  *shrug*

Peace.

Subsistance farming does not feed 2-3 billion people on Earth today. That's just crazy talk.

Where you going to add something there? Or does this mean you realized I am right?

[bryceax]

I'm not worried that the destruction of the mass relays will kill everyone; it bothers me that it's essentially the death of the mass effect universe.

[Moosasarous]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
Here are some reason why people are upset about it:

The relays blowing up fragments galactic civilization into isolated clusters of a few hundred ly radius at best, into isolated star systems at worst. Which means the ME universe as a fictional setting will be destroyed. Most of here have some connection to that universe, to the places, peoples and characters of the ME universe in their interconnectedness. Removing that is like destroying the fundament on which our imagination rests. If we want to imagine what happens after, we first need to rebuild the world.

The second aspect is that the destruction of the relays destroys all the closure achieved by playing the game to that point, because all we have achieved is suddenly open again. The results of all our decisions will be different because of it.

The third aspect is that we all set out to save galactic civilization from the Reapers. *This* galactic civilization, not some unknown one 10k years from now. That's what the story always was about. To see it end like this feels like a failure. It feels like Shepard died for nothing.

[moater boat]

ThomaswBloom wrote...

moater boat wrote...


Subsistance farming does not feed 2-3 billion people on Earth today. That's just crazy talk.

I didn't say subsistance farming, our hypothetical (200 years ago) grandparents fed cities with the surplus they produced using hand tools and animal power.   1 in 8 people globally are farmers.  So just under a billion people (?800 millionish?) to feed the 6 billion plus.  In the US there are less than a million farmers.  So not even 1 in 300 compared to the global average, and the US produces a huge surplus.  So yes, a big part of the third world is fed using nothing but hand tools and muscle power, because if we had hundreds of millions of farmers with the kind of output you get here in the US we could feed tens , if not hundreds of billions. 

Apologies to the OP.

/end threadjack

Regardless of what level of farming you meant, the fact of the matter is that even today a devastating attack on the scale of what we see in ME3 would DESTROY Earths food production capability. In the future farming will be even MORE dependent on technology infrastructure, communicating and science. Most farms these days don't have access to mules and old fashioned plows. To assume that farmers in the future would be able to go back to farming like it was done a hundred years ago is just silly.

Then of course there is the issue of food distribution. Ports, bridges, highways, and all sorts of infrastructure are necessary not just to grow the food, but to get it to the people that need it.

The OP suggesting that farmers would be able to operate at anywhere close to their prewar levels of efficiency is just absurd. I stand by my statement that an 80% decrease in food output would be an optimistic estimate.

Modifié par moater boat, 04 avril 2012 - 05:30 .

[Hudathan]

I thought I was fighting to prevent galactic extinction and save lives, not technology that would serve no purpose if there is no one left to use it. Shepard said 'we fight or we die' not 'we fight or we can't meet up on the Citadel for drinks no more'.

[Nobrandminda]

The problem is that you have to make a lot of assumptions (not speculations, assumptions) to make everything work out alright.  Otherwise everyone we've ever known just dies in one of a half dozen ways.

Funkdrspot wrote...

- Starvation issue. The Reapers target large cities, not rural areas. The
whole 'OMG Quarians and Turians will starve' thing has already been
shown to be overblown as D-proteins occur naturally and can be
synthesized NOW so you KNOW they can be made with better tech. Will some people have it tough? Sure, but they'll survive which is the point.

I don't know man.  Have you looked at earth in the various orbital shots?  It doesn't look quite as bad as Palavan does, but it still looks pretty banged up.  Even if you assume that the rural areas are untouched you need more than land to grow food, especially with sudden increased demand for food brought on by a galactic armada.  Did the Reapers leave the seed and fertilizer storage areas in tact?  Will the fleet be able to cobble together a supply change to dispense the food?  Even if everything goes there way, will they be able to start harvesting food before people start starving to death?  Krogan can probably tough it out for a while with their humps, but the asari don't look especially durable.  And as for the Dextros, once again, you're just assuming that they're capable of synthesising this stuff on a massive scale.

- Relays blowing up. The
idea that the relays blow up the solar system has already been
addressed and is refuted by the different destroy endings. Obviously the
crucible CAN fry planets (BAD destroy ending) but if you built it well enough it doesn't(every other ending). Simply put, there's a difference between releasing RAW energy ( slamming an asteroid into Alpha ) and the 
crucible converting the relays energy into a form of radiation. Basic chem teaches that the larger the radius you have to energize, the more diffuse the
energy is going to be.

Whatever the crucible releases is some form of
radiation that bathes the entire star cluster the relay is in which is
1000x of times larger in radius than blowing up a single solar system. It's converting that raw energy from the relay and turning it into a controlled burst not unlike a radio station tower.

So you assume, but there's nothing in game to support this theory.  The very last time you see the Relays is in that overhead shot of the galaxy.  I can't tell whether or not the Mass Relays are going supernova from that angle, and neither can you.  For all we know, the red/blue/green effect just extends out beyond the range of the Destructive explosion.

In the absense of conflicting evidence, the safest bet is to stick with the previously established fact: a Mass Relay releases a Supernova-like explosion when destroyed.

- Citadel falling to earth. Lastly
the whole, nuclear winter from the citadel falling back to earth is
wrong too b/c the citadel has little to no kinetic energy behind it. We
fear extinction level events from asteroids because they travel 25km/s
or 90,000km/h. It's the kinetic energy behind the asteroid that makes it
the threat, not the asteroid itself.

I'm not going to try and tackle the math on this one, but I think it's safe to assume that if the Citadel does fall to earth, then it will pick up some speed on the way down.  Enough to cause major damage during the impact?  Probably, the thing weighs 7 billion tons.  That's a lot of momentum, even at a low speed.

Then there are other problems like:

The Normandy is stranded on an unfamiliar planet.  We don't know if anyone else in the galaxy knows where they are, or if they do, that they are capable of launching a rescue mission.  We don't know anything about the planet itself.  Worst case scenario, they're on the Yahg homeworld and things got bloody during the credits sequence.

Any attempt by the fleet to get back home would take decades or centuries according to the codex.  With the possible exception of the Quarians, there is no way they have enough fuel (let alone food) to make that kind of journey.

Planets that have grown dependant on on galactic trade will wither up and die.  You can't just switch from a galactic economy to a local economy for your food supply over night.  Some of these planets might not even have farmable land.  Tuchanka comes to mind, and on the other side of the specturm you have the urbanized planets like Illium.

Modifié par Nobrandminda, 04 avril 2012 - 05:28 .

[Funkdrspot]

Teroseth wrote...

They exploded with enough power and force to be visible on the galaxy map. Look on that map, look at the size of star clusters, now look at the size of the explosions...some of the explosions overlap entire systems and spill into others...and that's in the best endings with everything done right.Then, even if we don't use visual evidence and we just accept that "well, it was safe controlled energy that was let out" great...and then what? It all just fizzled away? in the 5 seconds the relay took to explode moderately, all that energy safely escaped and became functionally inert? It goes against real life physics, it goes against in-game lore, it destroys the whole point of the game (who really won, the reapers wanting to wipe out advanced civilisations because they were advanced, or you, who destroyed the advanced means of transportation and therefore communication amongst advanced races, reducing the universe to the dark ages), it's just abhorrent.

What laws of physics does it break? 

It doesn't go against in-game lore because there is no established lore about the crucible aside from what you just witnessed.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Warden130 wrote...

The Crucible destroying a Mass relay is differant than slamming an asteroid into one (which was the Alpha Relay as well). Just think people! Don't yell plot hole at every little thing cause the endings were bad.

Except this is never hinted at, foreshadowed, explained in any way whatsoever, and is never necessary.

When the ending of a trilogy casually contradicts and violates explicit canon/lore info (that was the major focus of one of the most plot-relevant missions in the SERIES) in a completely unecessary way without any explanation or necessity whatsoever, it's BAD WRITING.

[SilentK]

Zix13 wrote...

You do realize the galactic community that made the game interesting is gone without the relays right?

Well yes, but how is that a problem?

The ending brought about a big change in the world. I took the destroy-ending last night with my first FemShep. So no more relays. But I do believe that people will make it, humanity doing it for themselves this time. And all the other species. No protheans to help the asari along, making progress faster. And no relays and citadel to make the organics develop along certain patterns.

[Tregon]

Zolt51 wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

I find it interesting how all these space *colonies* are assumed to be devoid of biodomes... hell, it should be among the first things built on ANY colony situated on a hostile planet.

This^^^ having to ship in all the food to a colony does not make any kind of economic sense, even with relatively cheap space travel.

Really? Look at same issue on smaller scale, Earth.
I live in Finland, waaay up in the north.
Our fruits come from Brazil, New Zealand, Israel... You name it. There is no citrus fruit production here, because our conditions do not support having plantations for them. We COULD make some in covered glasshouses, but price would go up so fast that having stuff shipped from opposite side of planet is CHEAPER!

ME galaxy is same thing on bigger scale. Stuff is produced where it is economically viable and cheap transit distributes it where it is needed!

"Civilian" colonies are usually located on garden worlds like Eden prime. The ones that are in hostile environments are usually research facilities.  So you don't have a huge number of people there... and these guys are scientists. Even if they don't already have a biodome / hydroponics food production, they have the skills to set up one.

Or mining facilities, or industrial facilities.
In case you did not figure it out, making biodomes requires more than will. It requires tools, skill to use tools and materials to build from. And then they need seeds/seedlings/whatever to plant! 

The only case where a colony would be in serious trouble is if they can't grow their own food AND there isn't any world that can grow food within their cluster. Local space travel is still possible: At 12 LY/day they would have thousands of star systems within a few weeks travel.

You forget the drive charge. We have no absolutely clear proof of how fast it takes place, but in games our ability to travel is limited to immediate cluster. 

Oh yes, and they desperately need spare parts to keep ships flying.

Frankly, considering the tech level, I have a hard time imagining that food would be the major problem. Helium-3 would be more problematic, as the Reapers specifically targeted fuel depots and harvesting installations. Rebuilding these would have to be one of the first priorities.

Frankly, you are talking out of your rear end without thinking the big picture.

Again, scale things down to modern world. Let's presume Japan was suddenly cut off from rest of the world trade. How are they going to keep their technological level if they cannot import things?
In case you have missed it, floods down in Thailand caused spike on HD-drives because making them depends so heavily on Thailand.

Just farting up industry to build stuff you used to import is massive undertaking. It is not just building factory, but building entire logistical/production chain to SUPPORT that factory. Oh yes, and entire logistical/production chain to even build that factory.

It is bit like the proverb states:
"
For want of a nail the shoe was lost,
[/i]for want of a shoe the horse was lost,
[/i]for want of a horse the knight was lost,
[/i]for want of a knight the battle was lost,
[/i]for want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
[/i]So a kingdom was lost—all for want of a nail.[/i] "

If any part of your logistical/production chain is broken, you do not get final product. 
You can't just make up new industry out of thin air, making it relies on existing infrastructure.

I have hard time understanding how people think that technology is magic, as long as you have it... Things work out. Technology might be there, but without industry and resources to put it into practice, it is worthless.

[justafan]

With Earth in the state it is in ME3, of course people are going to die. But I think the idea is a point will be reached when there is enough food and rebuilt infrastructure to support whoever is left. Similarly with the colonies, they either have the necessary climate or technology to sustain them, or they starve out. Its grim, but there certainly will be survivors of the relay destruction on the garden worlds.

As for the fleets at Earth, well everyone except Turians and Quarians can eat Earth food, and the Quarians brought the necessary ships to feed over 17 million dextros. They would likely be stuck until they figure out how to safely travel without Relays, but its possible for them to survive until then.

I'm actually of the mindset that the destruction of the relays was one of the acceptable parts of the ending. Sure there are a lot of negative repercussions, but it doesn't mean galactic extinction. The biggest problem is that it pretty clearly ends the Mass Effect series, because it would be hard for the games to continue without the Citadel or Relays.

[Tregon]

justafan wrote...

With Earth in the state it is in ME3, of course people are going to die. But I think the idea is a point will be reached when there is enough food and rebuilt infrastructure to support whoever is left. Similarly with the colonies, they either have the necessary climate or technology to sustain them, or they starve out. Its grim, but there certainly will be survivors of the relay destruction on the garden worlds.

As for the fleets at Earth, well everyone except Turians and Quarians can eat Earth food, and the Quarians brought the necessary ships to feed over 17 million dextros. They would likely be stuck until they figure out how to safely travel without Relays, but its possible for them to survive until then.

I'm actually of the mindset that the destruction of the relays was one of the acceptable parts of the ending. Sure there are a lot of negative repercussions, but it doesn't mean galactic extinction. The biggest problem is that it pretty clearly ends the Mass Effect series, because it would be hard for the games to continue without the Citadel or Relays.

You can't rebuild infrastructure without some infrastructure to build with! That is the bloody problem!

Else you decline to point where you can somehow survive with what you have. Which equals to loss of millenia or more of technological progress. Back to horses and ploughs, assuming you can find both.

Technology requires infrastructure to maintain it. That is what I for one have tried to tell everyone. Take away combustion engine or roads and modern society and technology collapse. As we have progressed technologically, we have become dependent on existing infrastructure. Our forefathers, who laid down the infrastructure, got by with less, but we have lost most of the infrastructure they used as springing board as obsolete.

There is no safety net to catch the fall.

As example... Let's pretend all microchips in USA got busted... Riiight now!
You need to get message from New York to Los Angeles. Phones are gone, internet is gone. Radios are gone (maybe someone has ancient tube radio)... 
We are left with cars and trains. Now, those tend to rely on tech with microchips too. And to make point more clear, we wipe out combustion engines and trains.

What do we have left?

Carrier pidgeons? Do not exist. 
Pony express? Well, there is no longer network of stations for them.
You have to have someone hike or ride all the way from New York to Los Angeles for that message to get there. That is VERY long trip.

If we lose sufficient portion of our infrastructure, we rest are not able to function and collapse as well.

Modifié par Tregon, 04 avril 2012 - 10:55 .

[Funkdrspot]

Too many of you guys are overanalyzing every minute detail, then spending the rest of the time doing that lazy e-debating tactic where you throw out simplistic questions that would take 2 min to answer on your own but you inundate the other side with a million of them.

Don't be lazy and think of the answer for yourself. If you can't come up with a reasonable explanation then you might have a point worth debating...

Tregon wrote...


You can't rebuild infrastructure without some infrastructure to build with! That is the bloody problem!

Prime example. How would the 100's of millions left alive NOT be able to build an infrastructure? 

Tregon wrote...Else you decline to point where you can somehow survive with what you have. Which equals to loss of millenia or more of technological progress. Back to horses and ploughs, assuming you can find both.

Non sequitur. I, literally, can't follow your train of thought on this one. How does the loss of the relays suddenly remove all tech advances?

Tregon wrote...Technology requires infrastructure to maintain it. That is what I for one have tried to tell everyone. Take away combustion engine or roads and modern society and technology collapse. As we have progressed technologically, we have become dependent on existing infrastructure. Our forefathers, who laid down the infrastructure, got by with less, but we have lost most of the infrastructure they used as springing board as obsolete.

1st world problems. A loss of infrastructure does not kill people. You just rebuild. Not much different than what the EU in WW2 had to go through.

Tregon wrote...There is no safety net to catch the fall.

And? 

Tregon wrote...As example... Let's pretend all microchips in USA got busted... Riiight now!
You need to get message from New York to Los Angeles. Phones are gone, internet is gone. Radios are gone (maybe someone has ancient tube radio)... 
We are left with cars and trains. Now, those tend to rely on tech with microchips too. And to make point more clear, we wipe out combustion engines and trains.

What do we have left?

Carrier pidgeons? Do not exist. 
Pony express? Well, there is no longer network of stations for them.
You have to have someone hike or ride all the way from New York to Los Angeles for that message to get there. That is VERY long trip.

If we lose sufficient portion of our infrastructure, we rest are not able to function and collapse as well.

Your hypothetical situation isn't remotely close to what happened.

It's not even apples and oranges, it's more like apples and anvils.

[moater boat]

Funkdrspot wrote...



1st world problems. A loss of infrastructure does not kill people. You just rebuild. Not much different than what the EU in WW2 had to go through.

You do realize that the only reason Europe was able to recover after WW2 was because of absurd amounts of aid from untouched parts of the world like the U.S.

In ME3 EVERYONE was devastated.

And yes, loss of infrastructure DOES kill people. If you can't get to the hospital when you need to, you die. Even if you can get there, if they can't get supplies because bridges and factories are destroyed, you still die. The arguments you are making have no historical precidence. Quite the opposite in fact.

[Tregon]

Funkdrspot wrote...
 Prime example. How would the 100's of millions left alive NOT be able to build an infrastructure? 

Are you going to build it from corpses? You are handwaving away need for resources, tools and so forth.
And feeling those hundreds of millions with whatever is left on ravaged planet.

Non sequitur. I, literally, can't follow your train of thought on this one. How does the loss of the relays suddenly remove all tech advances?

Society is dependent on easy, fast and cheap interstellar travel.
Again, technology is not magic. It requires knowledge, resources and tools.

1st world problems. A loss of infrastructure does not kill people. You just rebuild. Not much different than what the EU in WW2 had to go through.

And you are still not thinking the issue properly. Loss of infrastruture kills people. We depend on infrastruture to provide food, sanitation, healthcare. Loss of those results in massive level deaths because population is not able to suddenly change into subsistence farming.

Those areas which might be less affected by loss of infrastruture do not have any technology!
Do you think Somalia could rebuild this planet if first world countries vanished tomorrow?

First world problems are relevant, as loss of first world collapses the whole house of cards. Because that is where your vaunted "technology" resides.

Europe rebuilt with support from USA and rest of planet which still had their technology. Look at North Korea for example of hoe "there is tech, so all is well" works.

They HAVE theoretical knowledge. But they cannot put it into practice because they lack resources, industry or both.

Your hypothetical situation isn't remotely close to what happened.

It's not even apples and oranges, it's more like apples and anvils.

Really? All centers of population were totally torn up by reapers. Where do you think all industry is? Exactly! Near population centers for workfroce. Thus industrial capacity has been shot to hell. Further made worse by fact that ME society depends on importing goods from other planets.

No more resources, no more industry. No more society. Tech level stagnates fast and hard, just like in my hypothetical situation.