423 réponses à ce sujet

[Poison_Berrie]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Again with arguing pointless semantics. A temporary loss of infrastructure is not going to kill everyone, which was my point from the beginning.

So you concede that what will follow is a massive regression, where society tries to rebuilt from near scratch? That in that time many people will die by problems like famine, disease and wars.
That what happens in the first decades and centuries is building up agriculture and industry to support some population, followed by industry that is required to create the industry which will build the industry of the technology you used to live by and all the other side effects that go with it?

Basically what you are saying that you don't see the hysteria of the relays blowing up, because eventually far down the road when all the **** has hit the fan things will be okay again.

[streamlock]

It is an "IP reset button"

It necessarily did not have to be the relay's exploding. Any apocalyptic event will do. It is usually done when a particular company/creative director/writer or what have you takes over an existing franchise or IP and who's ego is entirely to large to be 'forced' to work within the constraints his predecessors put in place. For instance-Wizards of the Coast with the spellplague thing.

In the Sci-Fi genre-you generally have more options then just the galactopocolype. For instance, the new Star-Trek just went the alternate timeline route.

You see Hudsen starting to feel the pressure of having to work within a narrative that is so structured by player interaction in an interview. It might have been some of the making of ME2 videos a while back. He states that no game has ever done what ME has done (as far as player choice shaping events/narrative what have you) and....read between the lines "Probably won't be again".

I'm paraphrasing there, it has been awhile since I have seen the video. It's a scary comment-and one that will probably hold true in the long run.

So the relays exploding is actually much worse then 3 endings. It was Bioware's way of making just one ending. Sure it will be expanded on a bit-but it is their "easy out". Future games can ignore everything that happened in the previous series, and just give a couple conversation hooks for people who imported a save game.

A universe where your choices matter my arse. I've kinda rambled a bit, but a reason so many people have gone hysterical about the relays exploding, beyond the plot holes and such-it represents Hudsen et. al. giving everyone who was invested in the ME universe and the choices they made a big giant (F*CK YOU ARSE HOLES!!!).

The relays exploding is the canonization of a series that was beloved for the very reason it was not specifically canonized. The exploding relays represent the destruction of everything the player invested in. Every paragon choice. Every Renegade choice. Every life they saved, every one they took. The relays exploding is analogues to EAware declaring martial law on the plot and narrative-and there is nothing that you can do about it.

They have a vision of the future of the ME universe. And it is a singular vision-screw the choices and investment we hoodwinked you into thinking that mattered before grabbing your $60.

Hysteria? I would argue the relays exploding is more like betrayal.

[Funkdrspot]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

Dude, to borrow one of my niece's favorite phrases, you don't understand how *things* work.

First, as to the Turians and the Quarians starving to death, a lot of that will depend on whether or not the live ships survived intact, how many Quarians remained on Rannoch, and how many Turians survived the battle.  It's *possible* that, assuming you did *not* pick the destroy ending, the Turians and Quarians survive using the resources of the Quarian Migrant fleet.  Ironically, in this case, the Turians and Quarians may be more likely to survive.  If you did pick the destroy ending...  well, we'll get back to that.

As to everyone else starving...  Yeah.  That pretty much happens.  Here's why.  All the infrastructure has been destroyed, and a lot of the people who know how to farm are dead, and those who are alive probably don't have the specialized equipment they need.  Farming is not as simple as "hurp, throw some seeds on the ground, durp."  Farming is a highly skilled profession.  You have to know what to plant, when to plant, where to plant, how to rotate crops, how to harvest, how to use a lot of dangerous, specialized equipment without getting killed.  You can not feed billions of people without industrial scale agriculture.  PERIOD.  Even if the Reapers had been destroyed and the Mass Relays left intact, you were looking at *massive* food shortages on a galactic scale, just because of the damage done.

- You're overthinking a simple situation in terms of mass survival. You and many defeatists on here just simply throw your hands up when presented with a bad situation and maybe people like you would die if placed in the ME universe but people like me would keep on chugging no matter how bad. You can see the exact same thing occurring on earth right now and throughout human history where famines or droughts kill off some of the populace but people as a whole still survive.

And you're overthinking how easy it is to farm since many do it in their own back yard, it just takes hard work. Not to mention that having tools and equipment not unlike the security mechs for farming will make it much faster.

CrazyCatDude wrote...Second, with explosions, there is one simple rule you can follow.  The bigger the total volume affected by the explosion, the stronger the explosion was at the flashpoint.  If you have an explosion that spreads out over 25 or so light years (which is the estimated range at which a type 1A Super Nova would sterilize all worlds of life) and an explosion that spreads out over 50 light years, that means that conditions were *worse* at the point of detonation in the 50 light year explosion, because it took more energy to push the shock wave out that far.

An EXPLOSION yes, but this obviously wasn't ordinary and it wasn't just a random explosion.

Seriously i find it hilarious that you guys accept mass relays, element zero, biotics and FTL but then when the story takes a turn you don't like, somehow everything has to be held up to 2012 understanding of physics.

CrazyCatDude wrote...Third, raditation *is* energy.

yes it is but depending on the spectrum it can be deadly or harmless and that's what I think Bioware was going for.

Similar to a radio wave

CrazyCatDude wrote...Forth, Let's assume the Citadel is parked right on the edge of what would be considered "space".  80 km up.  This means it would hit with the force of 1.5 Gigatons.  Not that bad, really.  That's only a hundred thousand times the size of the Hiroshima blast.  Except, it doesn't come down in one spot, it comes down in at least five different spots, so, while the impacts aren't as big individually, they actually end up doing more damage because they are spread out.  Then there's all the Ezo and other toxins on the station.

1.5 gigatons based on...what? How can you know the total kinetic energy when you don't know the weight OR the speed? 

CrazyCatDude wrote...And then, there's the destroy option.  Oh, the destroy option.  The option which "will destroy all synthetic life, including the Geth, and most of the technology you use."

Uh no. It destroys synthetic life.. It says NOTHING about any technology beyond AI's.

CrazyCatDude wrote...
So, leaving aside the genocide of the Geth, you just effectively destroyed every ship in the fleet.  You can not glide a Kodiak shuttle down from orbit on a ballistic re-entry.  It has to have it's computers and Mass Effect core intact, but it doesn't, because the crucible just destroyed it.  So, no one on the fleet has any way to get back to Earth from those floating tombs that used to be a fleet.  Congratulations, everyone on the fleet is now doomed to die.  EVERYONE.  Most likely within hours, as they use up the air which is no longer being recycled.  The Quarians will go first, having only the small amount of air in their suits.  If they crack their suits to get at the air in the ships, they might last a little longer, but then they'd die of infection.

This entire paragraph is wrong and has nothing to substantiate it.

CrazyCatDude wrote...
Oh, and all those suddenly powerless ships and Reapers fighting around the Citadel.  More falling projectiles that make a very big, very toxic boom when they hit the ground.

The citadel and most every plane fighting was beyond earth's atmosphere, in earth's orbit. Stuff doesn't just fall straight down out of orbit.

[Provo_101]

streamlock wrote...

It is an "IP reset button"

It necessarily did not have to be the relay's exploding. Any apocalyptic event will do. It is usually done when a particular company/creative director/writer or what have you takes over an existing franchise or IP and who's ego is entirely to large to be 'forced' to work within the constraints his predecessors put in place. For instance-Wizards of the Coast with the spellplague thing.

In the Sci-Fi genre-you generally have more options then just the galactopocolype. For instance, the new Star-Trek just went the alternate timeline route.

You see Hudsen starting to feel the pressure of having to work within a narrative that is so structured by player interaction in an interview. It might have been some of the making of ME2 videos a while back. He states that no game has ever done what ME has done (as far as player choice shaping events/narrative what have you) and....read between the lines "Probably won't be again".

I'm paraphrasing there, it has been awhile since I have seen the video. It's a scary comment-and one that will probably hold true in the long run.

So the relays exploding is actually much worse then 3 endings. It was Bioware's way of making just one ending. Sure it will be expanded on a bit-but it is their "easy out". Future games can ignore everything that happened in the previous series, and just give a couple conversation hooks for people who imported a save game.

A universe where your choices matter my arse. I've kinda rambled a bit, but a reason so many people have gone hysterical about the relays exploding, beyond the plot holes and such-it represents Hudsen et. al. giving everyone who was invested in the ME universe and the choices they made a big giant (F*CK YOU ARSE HOLES!!!).

The relays exploding is the canonization of a series that was beloved for the very reason it was not specifically canonized. The exploding relays represent the destruction of everything the player invested in. Every paragon choice. Every Renegade choice. Every life they saved, every one they took. The relays exploding is analogues to EAware declaring martial law on the plot and narrative-and there is nothing that you can do about it.

They have a vision of the future of the ME universe. And it is a singular vision-screw the choices and investment we hoodwinked you into thinking that mattered before grabbing your $60.

Hysteria? I would argue the relays exploding is more like betrayal.

Abso - ****ing - lutely.

This, my friend, is the single greatest post I've seen on BSN. If I ever make donuts, I shall give you some.

[Funkdrspot]

streamlock wrote...

It is an "IP reset button"

It necessarily did not have to be the relay's exploding. Any apocalyptic event will do. It is usually done when a particular company/creative director/writer or what have you takes over an existing franchise or IP and who's ego is entirely to large to be 'forced' to work within the constraints his predecessors put in place. For instance-Wizards of the Coast with the spellplague thing.

In the Sci-Fi genre-you generally have more options then just the galactopocolype. For instance, the new Star-Trek just went the alternate timeline route.

You see Hudsen starting to feel the pressure of having to work within a narrative that is so structured by player interaction in an interview. It might have been some of the making of ME2 videos a while back. He states that no game has ever done what ME has done (as far as player choice shaping events/narrative what have you) and....read between the lines "Probably won't be again".

I'm paraphrasing there, it has been awhile since I have seen the video. It's a scary comment-and one that will probably hold true in the long run.

So the relays exploding is actually much worse then 3 endings. It was Bioware's way of making just one ending. Sure it will be expanded on a bit-but it is their "easy out". Future games can ignore everything that happened in the previous series, and just give a couple conversation hooks for people who imported a save game.

A universe where your choices matter my arse. I've kinda rambled a bit, but a reason so many people have gone hysterical about the relays exploding, beyond the plot holes and such-it represents Hudsen et. al. giving everyone who was invested in the ME universe and the choices they made a big giant (F*CK YOU ARSE HOLES!!!).

The relays exploding is the canonization of a series that was beloved for the very reason it was not specifically canonized. The exploding relays represent the destruction of everything the player invested in. Every paragon choice. Every Renegade choice. Every life they saved, every one they took. The relays exploding is analogues to EAware declaring martial law on the plot and narrative-and there is nothing that you can do about it.

They have a vision of the future of the ME universe. And it is a singular vision-screw the choices and investment we hoodwinked you into thinking that mattered before grabbing your $60.

Hysteria? I would argue the relays exploding is more like betrayal.

Ok so now we have the real reason is that some fans just can't stand the unknown. Thank you for being the first truthful one instead of trying to wrap your dislike in BS. The problem with your POV is you feel betrayal simply because the story didn't go your way and that smacks of entitlement. So yes, the endings suck, they need revision and clarification and to remove inconsistencies or to forward the IT, but the fact that you think the relays blowing up is a money grab and betrayal is comedy.

Personally, I never saw the Mass Effect universe as static. I always saw that some major cosmic shift was going to take place and I knew that the second that Soverign said that the relays were their trap. As long as they can effectively wrap up the ending and make them different then I'm ok with HOW it ended and I'm excited for ME 4 and the potential it has with the sheer amount of chaos going on after the win over the reapers.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 05 avril 2012 - 01:49 .

[Funkdrspot]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Again with arguing pointless semantics. A temporary loss of infrastructure is not going to kill everyone, which was my point from the beginning.

So you concede that what will follow is a massive regression, where society tries to rebuilt from near scratch? That in that time many people will die by problems like famine, disease and wars.
That what happens in the first decades and centuries is building up agriculture and industry to support some population, followed by industry that is required to create the industry which will build the industry of the technology you used to live by and all the other side effects that go with it?

Basically what you are saying that you don't see the hysteria of the relays blowing up, because eventually far down the road when all the **** has hit the fan things will be okay again.

1. People WILL die. My argument was always that it won't be anywhere close to the ELE people are making it to be.

2. Infrastructure in 2180, considering the tools, tech and machines they have available, probably won't take more than a few years to build up. This isn't some union only job, this is survival and when survival is the means, EVERYONE forgets about wages or personal benefit and chips in. Where you got decades is beyond me.

[Funkdrspot]

derpy202 wrote...

Without Mass Relays there is no galactic community, everyones back in the "stone age" so to speak. You can't get from cluster to cluster anymore. It's just completely ruined the mass effect 'universe'. Thats why everyone hates it.

It temporarily resets the ME universe but opens the possibility for us to surpass the reapers with our own technology. A better FTL or even the same relays. The only downside i see about all this is that you probably wont see the same cast of characters you've come to know and love since a new ME sequel will have to be set like 40/50 yrs in the future after they've got a few relays setup between the major planets.

And i think it's a bit sensational to call people who can make FTL engines and AI/VIs as 'stone age'.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 05 avril 2012 - 01:56 .

[Funkdrspot]

Xandurpein wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

The idea that the relays blow up the solar system has already been addressed and is refuted by the different destroy endings. Obviously the crucible CAN fry planets but if you built it well enough it doesn't. How you guys can't wrap your heads around the whole fact that the crucible using the relays energy is different than slamming an asteroid into a relay is beyond me. And anyone that has taken basic chem knows that the larger the radius you have to energize, the more diffuse the energy is going to be. Whatever the crucible releases is some form of radiation that bathes the entire star cluster the relay is in which is 1000x of times larger in radius than blowing up a single solar system.

Actually, I don't think you've explained anything at all here. You can't assume that the energy in the Mass Rely will instantaneously be diffused over a huge area. Like any explosion it will begin in a tight highly enegized ball and then expand over a larger and larger area, while at the same time diffusing in intensity. The game lore says this will happen with roughly the force of an exploding Supernova, which will fry the whole star system. Now eventually the energy of the blast will be spread out over such a large area that the effect that you describe will occur, but not until after the same energy have been expanding from a much more compact and destructive force. Your argumant is like saying it's harmless to hold an exploding stick of dynamite, because eventually the energy of the explosion will be diffused over such a wide area it's no longer harmful.

I don't assume anything, the end video clearly illustrates this so there is little to no other way to interpret it.

Again, i find it funny that the same fans that casually buy into element zero, biotics, FTL travel and relays somehow NEED to make the ending adhere to our current understanding of physics.

[Funkdrspot]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

BobbyDylan wrote...

I find it amazing the people seem to think that the relay explosions wouldn't be super-nova.

There are 2 ingame referances to what happends when a relay is destroyed, and neither say "it'll pass the energy along and evenutally evaporate...".
The game tells us that destroying relays is a bad idea, then forces us to destroy the relays. If you want to assume otherwise, go ahead, I'll continue to beleive what's happening ingame, though.

Yeah. Bioware haven't said anything about Mass Relays having multiple ways of exploding(?) so we have to go by what we know.

They don't have to SAY anything, you can see it for yourself in the ending scene. It's there in front of your face, a clearly different 'energy release' from the 'explosion' of the alpha relay. The alpha relay wasn't colored ( lol i know ) and it stretched throught the singular star system. The 'energy release' stretched through 10s to hundreds of star systems each. It affected the entire cluster it was in.

[clos]

All I've gotta say is if you've gotta reach that hard for your rebuttals as to change the canon Bioware has already created then you are in over your head already.

I would take the time to refute your rebuttals but truth be told, I'm tired of all this crap. Come PAX one of two things happens. I'm done with Bioware forever or they can potentially gain me back if they do what's right

[poundoffleshaa]

The whole framework of galactic civilisation is based on the relay without the relays any non-self sustaining population will die this includes large numbers of colonies and nearly all the mining planets which will mean less fuel and resources for everyone. It will almost certainly take years to rebuild and decades to adapt to self-sufficiency. Billions will die and Galactic Civilisation will regress back to isolated self interested planets. Figuring out how to build mass relays from first principals with no samples could take centuries and rebuilding the relays without the relay network is an almost impossible task which would require obscene amounts of resources.

[NPH11]

Even if the Reapers don't hit the rural areas (Which we actually see them do in a teaser), you still need people to grow and harvest the crops as well as the infrastructure to transport and deliver the food. It probably needs to undergo some processing as well. At the end of ME3, the situation on Earth is pretty damn chaotic, does that infrastructure still exist? If it does, is there any unified government body left to organize massive food hand-outs?

Sure, I doubt humanity is in any danger of extinction from starvation, but a lot of people are going to go hungry for a while until a unified response can be made. The way I see it, the Alliance Military is going to be the sole political body on Earth for the next decade(s).

poundoffleshaa wrote...

The whole framework of galactic civilisation is based on the relay without the relays any non-self sustaining population will die this includes large numbers of colonies and nearly all the mining planets which will mean less fuel and resources for everyone. It will almost certainly take years to rebuild and decades to adapt to self-sufficiency. Billions will die and Galactic Civilisation will regress back to isolated self interested planets. Figuring out how to build mass relays from first principals with no samples could take centuries and rebuilding the relays without the relay network is an almost impossible task which would require obscene amounts of resources.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say "any non-self sustaining population". I'm sure there are at least a few colonies or mining planets that have a farming planet located within capable FTL distance.

But yeah, the situation is pretty grim. Things are probably going to get worse before they get better.

Modifié par NPH11, 05 avril 2012 - 02:13 .

[MaleQuariansFTW]

Blowing up a relay causes it to go supernova. Before you bring up Arrival, know that blowing it up with an asteroid is moot. It doesn't matter with what, it just matters that when a relay explodes it go supernova. End of story. It's even in the codex. BioWare forced you to kill everyone and everything in the entire galaxy, and then showed you some twisted cutscene with the crew on a jungle planet that completely contradicts what they just did MINUTES PRIOR.

I can't wait to hear what they have to say about it. I hope to god there's a Q&A and someone asks this.

[Provo_101]

Picture this, OP.

There is a war on Earth, a big war. A war SO huge in fact, that it changes the very way our society works, a paradigm shift.

The seat of government is gone, political leaders are dead, and almost every major trading hub and city has been obliterated.

On top of that, lets say that various militaries are scattered around the planet, along with a few civilians. Well okay, you might say "well they can just fly back".

What if air travel just STOPPED, as if aviation just COULD NOT happen anymore, for whatever reason, the only things we would have are boats and cars (a bunch of which were destroyed by the war, for arguments sake) making relief efforts and transportation SO much more difficult. There isn't even any government to moderate trade anyway, so boats are pointless anyhow!

There is no order. You have the militaries that were united against a common threat (that is now gone entirely) dividing themselves again, fighting for resources. You have the civilians looting what they can, and killing anyone who gets in their way. Chain of command and government no longer exists, you now have anarchy. The only FUTURE for this scenario is a Fallout-esque setting, but much more militarized.

When all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy of all is war, which provideth for every man, by victory or death.

Remember Rakhana? Okay, now multiply that to the Sol system.

Also, eezo, biotics, FTL and the Mass Relays are okay because they have been established in the universe that contains them. The Skittles Beam has no bloody precedent in Mass Effect.

[Rockpopple]

Funkdrspot wrote...

When i hear people talk bad about the ending, i don't quite understand how the relays blowing up factors into the plot holes or the whole 'everyones gonna die/back to midevil times' ideas.

Did i miss something or are people in Mass Effect times somehow completely helpless and totally unable to hunt/farm? It sounds like a FTL-extension of '1st world problems'. I just don't get the idea of complaining about transportation difficulties when the alternative is galaxy wide genocide.

It's not like earth is overpopulated at the moment. Plenty of beach front property in London and Canada, that's for sure.

As far as the plot hole about the relays not asploding entire solar systems, I always assumed that because the radius of the endgame blast were covering each star cluster ( cluster>>>>>system ), that the energy wasn't as concentrated.


*****   edit *****
Ok i'm getting tired of being asked the same questions so I'll try to lay out my theories for all of it.

- Starvation issue. The Reapers target large cities, not rural areas. The
whole 'OMG Quarians and Turians will starve' thing has already been
shown to be overblown as D-proteins occur naturally and can be
synthesized NOW so you KNOW they can be made with better tech. Will some people have it tough? Sure, but they'll survive which is the point.

- Relays blowing up. The
idea that the relays blow up the solar system has already been
addressed and is refuted by the different destroy endings. Obviously the
crucible CAN fry planets (BAD destroy ending) but if you built it well enough it doesn't(every other ending). Simply put, there's a difference between releasing RAW energy ( slamming an asteroid into Alpha ) and the 
crucible converting the relays energy into a form of radiation. Basic chem teaches that the larger the radius you have to energize, the more diffuse the
energy is going to be.

Whatever the crucible releases is some form of
radiation that bathes the entire star cluster the relay is in which is
1000x of times larger in radius than blowing up a single solar system. It's converting that raw energy from the relay and turning it into a controlled burst not unlike a radio station tower.

- Citadel falling to earth. Lastly
the whole, nuclear winter from the citadel falling back to earth is
wrong too b/c the citadel has little to no kinetic energy behind it. We
fear extinction level events from asteroids because they travel 25km/s
or 90,000km/h. It's the kinetic energy behind the asteroid that makes it
the threat, not the asteroid itself.

Well done, sir. I tip my hat to you.

[Provo_101]

Funkdrspot wrote...

PresidentCowboy wrote...

BobbyDylan wrote...

I find it amazing the people seem to think that the relay explosions wouldn't be super-nova.

There are 2 ingame referances to what happends when a relay is destroyed, and neither say "it'll pass the energy along and evenutally evaporate...".
The game tells us that destroying relays is a bad idea, then forces us to destroy the relays. If you want to assume otherwise, go ahead, I'll continue to beleive what's happening ingame, though.

Yeah. Bioware haven't said anything about Mass Relays having multiple ways of exploding(?) so we have to go by what we know.

They don't have to SAY anything, you can see it for yourself in the ending scene. It's there in front of your face, a clearly different 'energy release' from the 'explosion' of the alpha relay. The alpha relay wasn't colored ( lol i know ) and it stretched throught the singular star system. The 'energy release' stretched through 10s to hundreds of star systems each. It affected the entire cluster it was in.

This is foolish. You have NO evidence supporting that. We can only use evidence that we have seen prior, which is Arrival. You cannot handwave this based on what you think happened, when there is no evidence supporting it. Period.

[Tritium315]

Normandy is useless after getting hit by the wave, stands to reason all other ships in the galaxy are too (and probably a lot of other **** too).

[Funkdrspot]

[quote]Tregon wrote...


Oh? 
Then tell me exactly how you will make a wrench.
Tell me where you find resource which does not exist in vicinity, or which you cannot access?
And what part of massive amount of death caused by starvation in known history makes you unable to grasp that "ration until they can get more" IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO WORK![/quote]

LOL you did NOT just ask me how to make a wrench....
First off to anyone who has ever worked with their hands, MAKING a wrench is easy if the issue is survival. I could carve a wrench out of some wood in 5 min if i knew my life would depend on it.

Second, just because earth is attacked doesn't mean that the billions of tools and millions of tool retailers somehow are vaporized.

Third, you're fighting history here with your starvation issues. There are about a hundred cases throughout history where a massive famine hit an area and caused starvation but even at its worst people are still able to make it.

Plus, earth is setup to feed 11 billion people. Anderson himself says that the reapers are leaving small cities alone which is where you would grow crops. I think there's plenty of food already there.
[quote]Tregon wrote...

We have logical argument for about 80-90% of people starving, dying of disease, injury or exposure.
At that point, they hardly have population or infrastructure to maintain interplanetary level tech. Even less one extending to other solar systems.[/quote]
Based on what?! You're assuming more than me. What happened to all the food and crops that fed 11 billion? The reapers didn't hit small cities.


[quote]Tregon wrote...
Knowledge is lost when person knowing dies. 80-90% mortality rate means huge amount of information is lost.
Also, in modern society nobody can alone hold all the keys for manufacturing of anything complex. That means you need ALL people with knowledge related to it to survive or you are screwed.[/quote]
Dood this is not 100 BC greece. We have books and computers to hold over info. The game has functioning omni tools. Like most of your argument, this suffers from logical fallacy hasty generalization.

People can salvage what's left over. Considering the wide omnitool use I'd say that won't be hard.

[quote]Tregon wrote...
And how would they have survived if aid did not pour out from elsewhere? Could they have maintained their previous level of technology when infrastructure needed to maintain it was shot to hell?

Answer is.. NO! 
Germany after WW2 was so shot up that without huge amount of supplies being thrown in, their population would have starved to death to point where Germany as state would not have anymore existed.[/quote]

Your rebuttals are, quite frankly, not educated. Their rebuilding would have taken much longer but they wouldn't have 'lost' any significant technology

You still continue to debate semantics instead of the point, which is when people got together to rebuild an area, and money wasn't an issue, it was rebuilt QUICKLY. Now throw all of the machines, omni tools and biotics they have at their disposal and they do it in half the time.


[quote]Tregon wrote...
It is perfectly similar. If you complain that issues are only "first world ones" then you mean that first world collapses but 3rd remains.

Problem is, 3rd words is down the ladders in everything related to technology. If 1st world cannot maintain itself, then whole planet is collapsed to level of 3rd world.
[/quote]

You don't understand the idea of 'first world problems' then. You're arguing semantics. It's a massive red herring.


[quote]Tregon wrote...
Species might survive, but it will be technologically somewhere in middle ages. Do you think they can scrape their way up from there when all the easily tapped resources used originally are gone?
[/quote]

LoL what?! middle ages? What are you basing this on? So all those books, all those computers, all those omni-tools, all those planes and cars are vaporized? 

[quote]Tregon wrote...
I'm sorry but how did earth suddenly lose all their tech? They didn't.
Did they lose all the knowledge they gained? No. [/quote]
Where is knowledge going to be stored? Infrastructure is shot to hell, means computers as well. Those facilities are also near population centers ravaged. People die.

Knowledge is lost on massive scale.
[/quote]

You're basing that on nothing.

[quote]Tregon wrote...
Really? All centers of population were totally torn up by reapers. Where do you think all industry is? Exactly! Near population centers for workfroce. Thus industrial capacity has been shot to hell. Further made worse by fact that ME society depends on importing goods from other planets.

No more resources, no more industry. No more society. Tech level stagnates fast and hard, just like in my hypothetical situation.
[/quote]

Considering the use of biotics, omni tools and the machine level they have ( think Atlas & mechs ) factories could be setup from scratch in a few months. Existing factories could probably be renovated in a few weeks.

[quote]Tregon wrote...
This is still true. Tech is gone. So is industry. Welcome to middle ages. How you like your plague?
[/quote]

Once again you're just basing all this on absolutely nothing.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 05 avril 2012 - 02:27 .

[Funkdrspot]

Provo_101 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

PresidentCowboy wrote...

BobbyDylan wrote...

I find it amazing the people seem to think that the relay explosions wouldn't be super-nova.

There are 2 ingame referances to what happends when a relay is destroyed, and neither say "it'll pass the energy along and evenutally evaporate...".
The game tells us that destroying relays is a bad idea, then forces us to destroy the relays. If you want to assume otherwise, go ahead, I'll continue to beleive what's happening ingame, though.

Yeah. Bioware haven't said anything about Mass Relays having multiple ways of exploding(?) so we have to go by what we know.

They don't have to SAY anything, you can see it for yourself in the ending scene. It's there in front of your face, a clearly different 'energy release' from the 'explosion' of the alpha relay. The alpha relay wasn't colored ( lol i know ) and it stretched throught the singular star system. The 'energy release' stretched through 10s to hundreds of star systems each. It affected the entire cluster it was in.

This is foolish. You have NO evidence supporting that. We can only use evidence that we have seen prior, which is Arrival. You cannot handwave this based on what you think happened, when there is no evidence supporting it. Period.

I have no evidence supporting this....except the ending to the game. lol.

I don't feel like going over this ad nauseam. Cling to the alpha relay canon for dear life if you want, I choose to be flexible with my SciFi and what they did wasn't beyond the current level of disbelief that the series already requires.

[Funkdrspot]

Tritium315 wrote...

Normandy is useless after getting hit by the wave, stands to reason all other ships in the galaxy are too (and probably a lot of other **** too).

Yeah that's the confusing part. I absolutely hate that part of the ending and wish it was wiped off.

My particular take from that is it either has something to do with the fact that the Normandy itself is an AI and the radiation blast is geared specifically towards AIs.

[Provo_101]

Funkdrspot wrote...

I have no evidence supporting this....except the ending to the game. lol.

I don't feel like going over this ad nauseam. Cling to the alpha relay canon for dear life if you want, I choose to be flexible with my SciFi and what they did wasn't beyond the current level of disbelief that the series already requires.

Okay, great. You want to be "flexible" with your SciFi. Flexible enough to rewrite established canon based on... opinionated "evidence". Gotcha.

[Funkdrspot]

Provo_101 wrote...

Picture this, OP.

There is a war on Earth, a big war. A war SO huge in fact, that it changes the very way our society works, a paradigm shift.

The seat of government is gone, political leaders are dead, and almost every major trading hub and city has been obliterated.

On top of that, lets say that various militaries are scattered around the planet, along with a few civilians. Well okay, you might say "well they can just fly back".

What if air travel just STOPPED, as if aviation just COULD NOT happen anymore, for whatever reason, the only things we would have are boats and cars (a bunch of which were destroyed by the war, for arguments sake) making relief efforts and transportation SO much more difficult. There isn't even any government to moderate trade anyway, so boats are pointless anyhow!

There is no order. You have the militaries that were united against a common threat (that is now gone entirely) dividing themselves again, fighting for resources. You have the civilians looting what they can, and killing anyone who gets in their way. Chain of command and government no longer exists, you now have anarchy. The only FUTURE for this scenario is a Fallout-esque setting, but much more militarized.

When all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy of all is war, which provideth for every man, by victory or death.

Remember Rakhana? Okay, now multiply that to the Sol system.

Also, eezo, biotics, FTL and the Mass Relays are okay because they have been established in the universe that contains them. The Skittles Beam has no bloody precedent in Mass Effect.

That's a nice worst case scenario but the point is that life survives. So yeah, stuff might be disorganized, a bit of anarchy but the sentient life gets to fight another day.

Oh and I completely disagree about planes not working. Normandy aside, there's nothing that the spacebrat said that even remotely suggests that we've somehow lost our FTL drives.

[Provo_101]

Funkdrspot wrote...

That's a nice worst case scenario but the point is that life survives. So yeah, stuff might be disorganized, a bit of anarchy but the sentient life gets to fight another day.

Oh and I completely disagree about planes not working. Normandy aside, there's nothing that the spacebrat said that even remotely suggests that we've somehow lost our FTL drives.

I'm comparing air travel to the Mass Relays, and boats to conventional FTL. 

[Tritium315]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

Normandy is useless after getting hit by the wave, stands to reason all other ships in the galaxy are too (and probably a lot of other **** too).

Yeah that's the confusing part. I absolutely hate that part of the ending and wish it was wiped off.

My particular take from that is it either has something to do with the fact that the Normandy itself is an AI and the radiation blast is geared specifically towards AIs.

EDI's fine though. Also pretty much every ship in the galaxy uses some form of VI to help it operate, and VI's count as synthetics (since the geth themselves are just many many VI's working in concert, or at least they were).

Modifié par Tritium315, 05 avril 2012 - 02:38 .