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I don't get the hysteria over the relays blowing up


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#326
Funkdrspot

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Provo_101 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

I have no evidence supporting this....except the ending to the game. lol.

I don't feel like going over this ad nauseam. Cling to the alpha relay canon for dear life if you want, I choose to be flexible with my SciFi and what they did wasn't beyond the current level of disbelief that the series already requires.


Okay, great. You want to be "flexible" with your SciFi. Flexible enough to rewrite established canon based on... opinionated "evidence". Gotcha.



LoL So they were supposed to put a contengent in the codex about an anti-reaper superweapon passed down throughout time before it was found and discovered what it even did?!

L O L

And nothing about my evidence is opinionated. My 'evidence' is the end of the game and it clearly shows that the 'energy burst' CAN destroy stuff but if you build your crucible right, it doesn't.

Hell, Anderson and Hackett even allude to the fact that they're worried about HOW it will release the energy and in what form.

#327
Provo_101

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Tregon wrote...
This is still true. Tech is gone. So is industry. Welcome to middle ages. How you like your plague?


Funkdrspot wrote...

Once again you're just basing all this on absolutely nothing.


Irony.

Modifié par Provo_101, 05 avril 2012 - 02:37 .


#328
Provo_101

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Funkdrspot wrote...

Provo_101 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

I have no evidence supporting this....except the ending to the game. lol.

I don't feel like going over this ad nauseam. Cling to the alpha relay canon for dear life if you want, I choose to be flexible with my SciFi and what they did wasn't beyond the current level of disbelief that the series already requires.


Okay, great. You want to be "flexible" with your SciFi. Flexible enough to rewrite established canon based on... opinionated "evidence". Gotcha.



LoL So they were supposed to put a contengent in the codex about an anti-reaper superweapon passed down throughout time before it was found and discovered what it even did?!

L O L

And nothing about my evidence is opinionated. My 'evidence' is the end of the game and it clearly shows that the 'energy burst' CAN destroy stuff but if you build your crucible right, it doesn't.

Hell, Anderson and Hackett even allude to the fact that they're worried about HOW it will release the energy and in what form.


I never implied them needing to throw the Crucible's purpose in the Codex.

#329
Funkdrspot

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clos wrote...

All I've gotta say is if you've gotta reach that hard for your rebuttals as to change the canon Bioware has already created then you are in over your head already.

I would take the time to refute your rebuttals but truth be told, I'm tired of all this crap. Come PAX one of two things happens. I'm done with Bioware forever or they can potentially gain me back if they do what's right


Correct yourself. *** I *** did not change the canon. Bioware did.

I explained myself yet no one wants to actually bring some NEW rebuttals to the table, everyone just wants to cite canon ad nauseam. The crucible is a canon changer, simple as that.

#330
Funkdrspot

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Provo_101 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Provo_101 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

I have no evidence supporting this....except the ending to the game. lol.

I don't feel like going over this ad nauseam. Cling to the alpha relay canon for dear life if you want, I choose to be flexible with my SciFi and what they did wasn't beyond the current level of disbelief that the series already requires.


Okay, great. You want to be "flexible" with your SciFi. Flexible enough to rewrite established canon based on... opinionated "evidence". Gotcha.



LoL So they were supposed to put a contengent in the codex about an anti-reaper superweapon passed down throughout time before it was found and discovered what it even did?!

L O L

And nothing about my evidence is opinionated. My 'evidence' is the end of the game and it clearly shows that the 'energy burst' CAN destroy stuff but if you build your crucible right, it doesn't.

Hell, Anderson and Hackett even allude to the fact that they're worried about HOW it will release the energy and in what form.


I never implied them needing to throw the Crucible's purpose in the Codex.


But that's exactly what you did since that's exactly what the crucible does. The Codex is KNOWN info. How would they allude to what the crucible can do before we even know that's a possiblilty? It would be bad foreshadowing.

No one in galactic history has gotten to fire it off so how would anyone know to update the codex on this possibility?

#331
Exeider

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I don't know if its been said, but the Citadel and the Relays are an iconic fixture in Mass Effect, they are what Stargates are to the Stargate Franchise, what Jumpgates are to Babylon 5. Without them it's hard to have a series at all. Some would even say that they are more important then ship FTL.

Without Mass Relays, there just is no Mass Effect universe, no economy, no politics, nothing, no sense of unity or orginization. And this is not counting all the destruction the reapers left behind.

Angry Joe points out in his video, that this situation is a "Holocaust nightmare scenario" and I have to agree with that assessment.

As far as those saying that the relays destroyed the star systems, I have seen the videos and discussions, and I have to agree that its different explosion, because in the arrival DLC, its the core that blows up and novas, not the relay, but in the ME3 ending the core energy is clearly shooting off on the space magic beam, why do i say this, because if you look closely, you can see the through the area where the core normally is and see the rings behind it, and the space behind the relay. the center section definitely seems to be "emptying" its contents into the beam just before the relay explodes.

Also, the codex is only up to date as of the last game, it shouldn't be taken as sacrosanct, in ME1 it said that relays couldn't be destroyed, and in ME2, the codex entry says the same thing until you blow up the damn relay and the codex entry updates.

The codex seems to me to be a sort of encyclopedia galactica, of sorts, so its only up to date since the last time it was updated. Considering galactic civilization is pretty much over in either case, no one is around to update the codex, nor anyone around to pick up a copy of the new one.

And If you still believe the energy wave is the relay explosion keep this in mind, those waves go WAAAAAY farther then just the star systems they affect, they spread out to portions of the quadrant, so are you saying that explosion killed those worlds too?

in the vaporize ending, I would say thats true, since the crucible wave vaporized everyone on earth, it stands to reason that the same wave sent through the relays killed everyone in the galaxy. at least in that ending.

I personally am of the belief that the explosion in the end of ME3 was not the same as the arrival relay core explosion, by virtue of the fact that the core wasn't present anymore when it went up.

But ultimately it doesnt matter, since in ANY case, galactic civilization is gone, and travel to anyone's home world is nigh impossible. so in that the ME universe is toast.

And I don't think ANYONE wants to play the ME universe in the future, like thousands of years into the future, it just would seem like a stale flavor at that point.

SO OP I hope that answers your questions, If the ME universe is to be saved the relays are gonna have to be rewritten back into the story. plain and simple.

-AE

#332
Provo_101

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Funkdrspot wrote...

But that's exactly what you did since that's exactly what the crucible does. The Codex is KNOWN info. How would they allude to what the crucible can do before we even know that's a possiblilty? It would be bad foreshadowing.

No one in galactic history has gotten to fire it off so how would anyone know to update the codex on this possibility?


I didn't mention the Crucible, I mentioned Arrival. Simple as that. As much as I would love the relays to.. y'know.. not blow up. I don't have evidence supporting otherwise. And before you go off again saying "the ending is evidence" it isn't. We see the galaxy map, and the energy release of each Relay, using established canon how are we supposed to view this as anything else? We don't see the fate of anything else afterwards, except Gilligan's nonsensical planet.

#333
Roguestriker

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I enjoyed the laugh OP.

#334
o Ventus

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1 thing NO ONE seems to bring up.

You can very clearly, very visibly see the shockwave fromt he relays explosions. Wanna know how far it reaches? With all of the relays combined, before the camera cuts, at least a good 60% of the galaxy is decimated (And it didn't even show half the relays being wiped out).

#335
Provo_101

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o Ventus wrote...

1 thing NO ONE seems to bring up.

You can very clearly, very visibly see the shockwave fromt he relays explosions. Wanna know how far it reaches? With all of the relays combined, before the camera cuts, at least a good 60% of the galaxy is decimated (And it didn't even show half the relays being wiped out).


I brought it up... :crying:

#336
Funkdrspot

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o Ventus wrote...

1 thing NO ONE seems to bring up.

You can very clearly, very visibly see the shockwave fromt he relays explosions. Wanna know how far it reaches? With all of the relays combined, before the camera cuts, at least a good 60% of the galaxy is decimated (And it didn't even show half the relays being wiped out).


already 1 step ahead of you. When the Crucible lets out the first burst, those shockwaves are clearly seen passing over earth. Whether they light earth on fire or only destroy the reapers is up to your readiness.

So what I'm saying is BASED entirely on what we see in the ending.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 05 avril 2012 - 02:53 .


#337
Tristam25

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Well, the complex society formed from the interactions between the galaxy's races that we've all come to love is gone. But besides that it's cool... :(

#338
Warrior Craess

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Funkdrspot wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

I think you missed the fact that there will be no farming and hunting when there's no worlds to hunt or farm, let alone live on. Mass Relay destructions, according to Arrival, lead to Supernovas, the energy used to destroy the relay doesn't matter there. I dunno why everyone believes people in the Sol system will starve. The way I see it they would most likely just get pulverized.


To everyone responding the same way, I've already answered this in what I see as logical.

Slam an asteroid to a mass relay = solar system explosion

Crucible energy beam = same energy released but to ALL solar systems within that cluster 



It's like lighting a drop of gas on the ground vs in your cylinder.


Just curious but where are you getting even Space magic logic for the relays exploding, but releasing their energy to all stars in a cluster, with out harming anything? (by the way, this would happen even for a supernova. However it would still be incredibly destructive at the point of origin, and slowy attenuate over time and distance.)

Energy from an explosion is omni direction,unless there is something directing the discharge pattern. 
Once the containing force break apart then energy explosions become omni directional again.  Yes some of the energy of the Catalyst  is directed to other relays, but there is video of the relays breaking up. Even the force of a star going nova would be listed under a title of "Really, Really Bad Things".  So the question is (and isn't answered) just how much energy was released by the relays breaking apart and exploding after creating a jump point for the space magic? 

So not only did the energy from the catalyst destroy the reapers, overload the relays and make them explode, but it also changed the nature of the energy released by the relays destruction? 

Wow, that space magic is supremely powerful.

#339
Jeitiiea

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Assuming the relays simply stop functioning, but don't blow up and destroy all life in those solar systems, galactic civilization has been disrupted severely. The argument of "rebuild infrastructure, go plant some food and eat it, use advanced medtech to survive diseases" is implausible.

Supply will no longer meet demand. Each planet is not independently self-sustainable in a galactic civilization; they rely on other worlds to supply the goods/technology which they cannot produce. With the relays destroyed, they are only able to survive on what they produce, and shifting industrial focus to survival methods (ie. agriculture) will not happen overnight. In the long term, localised economies will stabilise as individual planets become self-sustainable again.

In the short term, however, people will die. Resources will be scarce. How do you stop diseases when your imports of medi-gel just got cut off? How do you feed turians and quarians dextro food when basic resources needed to manufacture that aren't available, or the government's emergency responses have diverted those resources to other areas? The planet will suddenly have limited resources and those governments will have to prioritise their use.

In the short term, the galaxy is screwed. In a thousand years, maybe even just a few hundred, they'll be sorted. But the next few centuries will be pure chaos, economic depressions, and very bad times for all involved.

#340
Warrior Craess

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Funkdrspot wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

1 thing NO ONE seems to bring up.

You can very clearly, very visibly see the shockwave fromt he relays explosions. Wanna know how far it reaches? With all of the relays combined, before the camera cuts, at least a good 60% of the galaxy is decimated (And it didn't even show half the relays being wiped out).


already 1 step ahead of you. When the Crucible lets out the first burst, those shockwaves are clearly seen passing over earth. Whether they light earth on fire or only destroy the reapers is up to your readiness.

So what I'm saying is BASED entirely on what we see in the ending.


Only if you assume that the energy released from the Catalyst is the same energy released by the Mass Relays.  Since the Mass relays use Ezo to effect instanteous travel What happens to that Easy when it's exposed to energy and then released with out control?   What happens to everyone thats exposed to the EZO dust from the explosions?  how much of the Dark enery released by the Eezo's explosion reachs the Star of the Relays home system?  Does ity go terminal like the one in ME 2? (what did it have left like 5 years?)

#341
Zuka999

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Whats the point of the Mass Effect universe if theres no.. mass effect?

Also.. if the relay explosions aren't going to destroy any systems why do they have the power to damage the Normandy so much? Why do they have the power to crash it? Clearly its not harmless..

Modifié par Zuka999, 05 avril 2012 - 03:20 .


#342
Provo_101

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Warrior Craess wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

I think you missed the fact that there will be no farming and hunting when there's no worlds to hunt or farm, let alone live on. Mass Relay destructions, according to Arrival, lead to Supernovas, the energy used to destroy the relay doesn't matter there. I dunno why everyone believes people in the Sol system will starve. The way I see it they would most likely just get pulverized.


To everyone responding the same way, I've already answered this in what I see as logical.

Slam an asteroid to a mass relay = solar system explosion

Crucible energy beam = same energy released but to ALL solar systems within that cluster 



It's like lighting a drop of gas on the ground vs in your cylinder.


Just curious but where are you getting even Space magic logic for the relays exploding, but releasing their energy to all stars in a cluster, with out harming anything? (by the way, this would happen even for a supernova. However it would still be incredibly destructive at the point of origin, and slowy attenuate over time and distance.)

Energy from an explosion is omni direction,unless there is something directing the discharge pattern. 
Once the containing force break apart then energy explosions become omni directional again.  Yes some of the energy of the Catalyst  is directed to other relays, but there is video of the relays breaking up. Even the force of a star going nova would be listed under a title of "Really, Really Bad Things".  So the question is (and isn't answered) just how much energy was released by the relays breaking apart and exploding after creating a jump point for the space magic? 

So not only did the energy from the catalyst destroy the reapers, overload the relays and make them explode, but it also changed the nature of the energy released by the relays destruction? 

Wow, that space magic is supremely powerful.




THANK YOU!

#343
Mbednar

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Sorry if already mentioned. Just got here.

Willing to accept that relays don't go supernova.

BUT if they don't, then what the heck is the Normandy fleeing at the end? It looks like the explosion of the relay. I think that rushed scene really confused a LOT of people.

#344
Sifr

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The one problem I have is that the Citadel itself is one MASSIVE relay which we know from the first game leads directly to Dark Space. While it is only active once every 50,000 years, it still means that the amount of energy that it had to have stored in order to function would be beyond astronomical.

When the Citadel blew up, the explosion should have resulted in the destruction spreading over several light-years!

Modifié par Sifr1449, 05 avril 2012 - 03:33 .


#345
Athlonis1

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Starvation and supernovas aside: relays blowing up bad. No galactic community. Eons to develop new relays. Longer to implement. Galactic society gone.

#346
masseffectfan94

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Tombfyre09 wrote...

don't forget earth will also soon have a 44km space station falling to it in 2 of 3 endings... lol... will the destruction ever end!?

There you solved it that is how the dinosaurs died.

#347
Zolt51

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masseffectfan94 wrote...

Tombfyre09 wrote...

don't forget earth will also soon have a 44km space station falling to it in 2 of 3 endings... lol... will the destruction ever end!?

There you solved it that is how the dinosaurs died.


Why should it fall, and what will be the velocity of impact? Until you come back with an answer on this, you're just trollin.

#348
Provo_101

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Sifr1449 wrote...

The one problem I have is that the Citadel itself is one MASSIVE relay which we know from the first game leads directly to Dark Space. While it is only active one every 50,000 years, it still means that the amount of energy that it had to have stored in order to function would be beyond astronomical.

When the Citadel blew up, the explosion should have resulted in the destruction spreading over several light-years!


This.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You know, at this point. I'm starting to think that Mass Effect is just the prequel to Star Wars.

I mean come on. Twi'lek could be evolved Asari, Salarians = Mon Cal, etc.

And the Force is Space Magic!

#349
Zolt51

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Athlonis1 wrote...

Starvation and supernovas aside: relays blowing up bad. No galactic community. Eons to develop new relays. Longer to implement. Galactic society gone.


Local societies: pretty much unaffected. 

#350
Provo_101

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Zolt51 wrote...

masseffectfan94 wrote...

Tombfyre09 wrote...

don't forget earth will also soon have a 44km space station falling to it in 2 of 3 endings... lol... will the destruction ever end!?

There you solved it that is how the dinosaurs died.


Why should it fall, and what will be the velocity of impact? Until you come back with an answer on this, you're just trollin.


The SR1 fell into Alchera. Velocity? A 44km space station is falling from orbit, Earth is absolutely ****ed.