423 réponses à ce sujet

[Athlonis1]

Zolt51 wrote...

Athlonis1 wrote...

Starvation and supernovas aside: relays blowing up bad. No galactic community. Eons to develop new relays. Longer to implement. Galactic society gone.

Local societies: pretty much unaffected. 

On major world perhaps. Reliant colonies... difficult. Besides, was point of game not to unite galaxy? What about krogan without Wrex? Entire point of game made moot. Unacceptable.

[Mbednar]

Zolt51 wrote...

Athlonis1 wrote...

Starvation and supernovas aside: relays blowing up bad. No galactic community. Eons to develop new relays. Longer to implement. Galactic society gone.

Local societies: pretty much unaffected. 

Except for the fact that small colonies likely get trade goods from other star-systems on a daily basis.

It would be like if transportation was eliminated on Earth.  Sure there would be surviovors, but a lot of people would die in isolation.

[Menalaos1971]

Funkdrspot wrote...
- Relays blowing up.
The idea that the relays blow up the solar system has already been addressed and is refuted by the different destroy endings. Obviously the crucible CAN fry planets (BAD destroy ending) but if you built it well enough it doesn't(every other ending). Simply put, there's a difference between releasing RAW energy ( slamming an asteroid into Alpha ) and the crucible converting the relays energy into a form of radiation. Basic chem teaches that the larger the radius you have to energize, the more diffuse the energy is going to be.

Whatever the crucible releases is some form of radiation that bathes the entire star cluster the relay is in which is
1000x of times larger in radius than blowing up a single solar system. It's converting that raw energy from the relay and turning it into a controlled burst not unlike a radio station tower.

The Crucible/Cataclyst is NOT a Mass Relay.  Yes, the energy released by the Crucible/Catalyst can be non-lethal, and yes the Mass Relays are used to transmit that energy, however after they transmit the energy they then explode.  Now, the only information provided in the game is that when a Mass Relay explodes it wipes out the solar system it is in.  NOTHING in the game confirms that the Crucible/Catalyst changes this. There are no Journal Entries that say this.  The AI Vent Boy does not say this.  So assuming its true is just that.  An assumption.

[Provo_101]

Athlonis1 wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

Athlonis1 wrote...

Starvation and supernovas aside: relays blowing up bad. No galactic community. Eons to develop new relays. Longer to implement. Galactic society gone.

Local societies: pretty much unaffected. 

On major world perhaps. Reliant colonies... difficult. Besides, was point of game not to unite galaxy? What about krogan without Wrex? Entire point of game made moot. Unacceptable.

-1 for not using "problematic".

[Athlonis1]

Provo_101 wrote...

Athlonis1 wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

Athlonis1 wrote...

Starvation and supernovas aside: relays blowing up bad. No galactic community. Eons to develop new relays. Longer to implement. Galactic society gone.

Local societies: pretty much unaffected. 

On major world perhaps. Reliant colonies... difficult. Besides, was point of game not to unite galaxy? What about krogan without Wrex? Entire point of game made moot. Unacceptable.

-1 for not using "problematic".

Decided it was overused. Opted for synonym. 

[Warrior Craess]

Provo_101 wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

The one problem I have is that the Citadel itself is one MASSIVE relay which we know from the first game leads directly to Dark Space. While it is only active one every 50,000 years, it still means that the amount of energy that it had to have stored in order to function would be beyond astronomical.

When the Citadel blew up, the explosion should have resulted in the destruction spreading over several light-years!

This.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You know, at this point. I'm starting to think that Mass Effect is just the prequel to Star Wars.

I mean come on. Twi'lek could be evolved Asari, Salarians = Mon Cal, etc.

And the Force is Space Magic!

lol well I am playing SW:TOR also, so yeah I can kinda see that...

[Suparaddy]

*****   edit *****
Ok i'm getting tired of being asked the same questions so I'll try to lay out my theories for all of it.

- Starvation issue. The Reapers target large cities, not rural areas. The
whole 'OMG Quarians and Turians will starve' thing has already been
shown to be overblown as D-proteins occur naturally and can be
synthesized NOW so you KNOW they can be made with better tech. Will some people have it tough? Sure, but they'll survive which is the point.

- Relays blowing up. The
idea that the relays blow up the solar system has already been
addressed and is refuted by the different destroy endings. Obviously the
crucible CAN fry planets (BAD destroy ending) but if you built it well enough it doesn't(every other ending). Simply put, there's a difference between releasing RAW energy ( slamming an asteroid into Alpha ) and the 
crucible converting the relays energy into a form of radiation. Basic chem teaches that the larger the radius you have to energize, the more diffuse the
energy is going to be.

Whatever the crucible releases is some form of
radiation that bathes the entire star cluster the relay is in which is
1000x of times larger in radius than blowing up a single solar system. It's converting that raw energy from the relay and turning it into a controlled burst not unlike a radio station tower.

- Citadel falling to earth. Lastly
the whole, nuclear winter from the citadel falling back to earth is
wrong too b/c the citadel has little to no kinetic energy behind it. We
fear extinction level events from asteroids because they travel 25km/s
or 90,000km/h. It's the kinetic energy behind the asteroid that makes it
the threat, not the asteroid itself.

From what I witnessed in trailers, rural areas were attacked by the Reapers.  It's all speculative however, a safer assumption would be every major metropolitan city and the surrounding vicinity were most likely razed.

By far my biggest concern has been the availability of resources.   ME is set some 200 years in the future, and what with the population skyrocketing due to the apparrent advances in medical tech (medi-gel?), resource acquisition and allocation has got to be a sticky subject for the Alliance.  I assume (again speculative) that this problem was remedied with the discovery of the Mass Relays, which allowed humans to colonize other garden worlds and thus ship much needed resources back to our solar system for use.  Very fine and dandy until the destruction of the relays, which cuts us off from those needed resources.

Now, with the combined fleets of the United Galactic Anti-Reaper Squad trapped in our system, the available pool of resources just got a whole lot thinner.  According to my playthrough, there should have been small groups of Hanar, Drell, Volus, Elcor, Salarians, and Vorcha present when the Citadel fell.  At the same time, substantial populations of Asari, Turian, Krogan, and Quarians were also present.

Putting aside the Turians and Quarians for the moment, you now have eight other races competing with humans for sustenance alone on a war-ravaged Earth.  Now, while the human population is most diminished (actual numbers absent), it still leaves a rather sizeable potential for conflict.  And yes, there will be conflict.  Conflict is the one constant of social interaction.  It is inevitable.  There will always be one person/being with a differing opinion.  Always.  That is not speculative, it's cold, hard truth.  And now while the newly enjoined races may get along for awhile, it is inevitable that sometime down the road, one of these races will come into conflict with another over the limited amount of resources available for use.  And this is also assuming that infrastructure recovers to the point where resources can be properly allocated for usage among the diverse peoples.  In the face of the reaper invasion, it would most likely take a decade in order to: organize leadership-assess and pool remaining resources-institute mechanisms for harvesting/mobilizing resources- (perceived) fair distribution of resources.

I could see the races getting along peachy during those first phases, riding on the eclectic rush of such an epic victory as each race selects their finest representatives to help rebuild earth.  But towards the tail end of assessing what is useable, what do you have?  Coal?  Fields needing to be resown?  Livestock that needs tending?  Most of the resources needed to put this in motion would have been located in the metropolitan cities, which unfortunately are now in no condition to contribute anything meaningful to the rebuilding effort.  You could get the people working the fields, but they'd need to be fed, but the food would only last you so long, and agriculture takes time, which with limited (and depleting) resources, time would not be in abundance.

The foodstuffs and advantages we see today are only possible because of an intricate network of infrastructure that exists on a macro level.  The american farmer depends on fuel to power the machines that work the fields  with water pumped in from pipes which grow the crops, which are then sent by more machines to cities all over the globe to be consumed by people which build the parts for more machines that use the fuel provided by other people etc. etc.  Now, take out a few of those 'nodes'  With no machines, the farmer cannot farm as efficiently, slowing or reducing production.  If the machines controlling the reservoir which pumps the water no longer function because they are destroyed?  Then the farmer is at the complete mercy of the weather, again slowing or reducing production.  My point here is that the Reapers have essentially blasted earth back to the era just before the industrial revolution.  You said in an earlier post that you could fashion a wrench out of wood.  Yes, but how long would that wooden wrench last without industrial-grade reinforcement?  And what happens when you have exhausted all the proper trees that could have made suitable wrenches because you have eight different races all burning through wrenches to try to make repairs on ships/new homes/new factories etc.

In terms of resource usage, what would be left to process what we do have?  Saw mills in the PacNW?  It's a fair bet that the industrial centers of production were destroyed by the reapers (major cities right?)  Even if you could organize the myriad of races to cooperate on the levels needed to properly mine/grow/cut the materiel needed to rebuild earth, there's no feasable way of processing said materiel into useful product.  If the Reapers were smart about their genocidal attack (which they obviously are, given they've been doing this for quite some time), they would've taken out every major damn, nuclear plant, coal plant, anything that provides power to humans.  (By the way, I know I saw computers and crap still on in London when I went back, but who's to say there aren't small backup generators keeping things online, which are in no way going to be powerful enough to provide the energy needed for a full scale planetary rebuilding effort).  And with that, just how are we supposed to feed the Quarians and Turians if we can't properly extract/process the proper foodstuffs for them?  Unless food replicator tech from star trek exists, the Quarians and Turians are going to have an awful time while they wait for the proper tech to come along to synthesize d-protein foods from a world largely populated by life evolving along an l-protein scheme.

I look at the state of resources today and just try to imagine what it would be like if a) WW3 broke out, only worse, leaving every major city in the world as a smoldering husk (pun intended), if the infastructure that currently keeps this world viable would to suddenly cease. and c) if you were to tell everybody at once that it was their duty to help rebuild, no ifs ands or buts.  The result is not pretty.  Not only would N. American and Asian farmlands have to feed the entirety of the world's populations, they would have to figure out a way to distribute said foodstuffs in a timely and fair manner to everybody on earth (yikes India!)

I haven't even touched on the effects of crime/social deviance upon the post-reaper world.  And how about the mentally challenged/physically challenged/disabled?  They require personnel and resources.  Veterans of the war missing a limb or two?  Do they get to skirt out on duties?  How does the hungry Quarian feel when Sgt. Sanjay Arashpur, who gave his arms and legs fighting husks in London, gets to sit around all day while Seelai Toras vas Quib Quib has to collect his droppings every time he yells her name?

I could go on, but WALLOFTEXT OMG.

To sum up, I don't care about how the relays should've obliterated Sol, nor do I care about the destruction caused by the citadel ruins (actually I do, but my wallotext is out of control).  To me, the mobilization of the diminished resources of our system, and the limited amount of proper facilities with which to process said resources, in the face of inevitable social tension, is what kills the ending for me.

[Provo_101]

Athlonis1 wrote...


Decided it was overused. Opted for synonym. 

In that case, well done.

[2papercuts]

For several reasons.

The mass relays are seen exploding. The only previous instance where one did explode was arrival, in which it wiped out a system. Therefore we have to assume that the systems with relays are also destroyed, because we have no concrete evidence otherwise. Unless you have some concrete evidence that this isn't the case instead of spouting what you think happened, I would advise you to remain quite on this subject until you find better evidence.

[Varus Praetor]

Ok OP, all cars, buses, boats, and planes just blew up. Anything with a motor. But hey, we still have horses and bikes right? Hope you don't live in a city. The produce is going to be a bit over ripe by the time it makes it to you. Oh yeah, and enjoy the 3 hour commute.

The relays blowing up is a big deal because the entirety of galactic civilization is dependent on them. Is everyone going to die (assuming that BW retconned what happens when they expload)? No. But a lot of people are going to die due to starvation, overpopulated planets, and colonies that are not self sufficient. Oh and pretty much everyone in the fleet is going to die as well.

So yes, partial extinction is better than complete extinction. In the words of Major Payne, it's "still a **** sandwich, but at least it's not a soggy one."

[Provo_101]

2papercuts wrote...

For several reasons.

The mass relays are seen exploding. The only previous instance where one did explode was arrival, in which it wiped out a system. Therefore we have to assume that the systems with relays are also destroyed, because we have no concrete evidence otherwise. Unless you have some concrete evidence that this isn't the case instead of spouting what you think happened, I would advise you to remain quite on this subject until you find better evidence.

Your sig is BRILLIANT!!!!!

[Acidrain92]

Varus Praetor wrote...

Ok OP, all cars, buses, boats, and planes just blew up. Anything with a motor. But hey, we still have horses and bikes right? Hope you don't live in a city. The produce is going to be a bit over ripe by the time it makes it to you. Oh yeah, and enjoy the 3 hour commute.

The relays blowing up is a big deal because the entirety of galactic civilization is dependent on them. Is everyone going to die (assuming that BW retconned what happens when they expload)? No. But a lot of people are going to die due to starvation, overpopulated planets, and colonies that are not self sufficient. Oh and pretty much everyone in the fleet is going to die as well.

So yes, partial extinction is better than complete extinction. In the words of Major Payne, it's "still a **** sandwich, but at least it's not a soggy one."

right. because all cars, buses, boats, and planes have AI integrated into them.

*rolls eyes*

[Provo_101]

Acidrain92 wrote...

right. because all cars, buses, boats, and planes have AI integrated into them.

*rolls eyes*

The point is about reliance. 

*rolls eyes*

[Menalaos1971]

2papercuts wrote...

For several reasons.

The mass relays are seen exploding. The only previous instance where one did explode was arrival, in which it wiped out a system. Therefore we have to assume that the systems with relays are also destroyed, because we have no concrete evidence otherwise. Unless you have some concrete evidence that this isn't the case instead of spouting what you think happened, I would advise you to remain quite on this subject until you find better evidence.

Amen, brother, and yes your sig is awesome.

[Brian.V3]

How can you not comprehend the whole Arrival DLC proving destruction of the Mass Relay practically destroys the system within it or the codex entry in Mass Effect 3? I just don't get it. If you are going to theorize you are as bad as the people who came up with the indoctrination theory.

[Tritium315]

Funkdrspot wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

1 thing NO ONE seems to bring up.

You can very clearly, very visibly see the shockwave fromt he relays explosions. Wanna know how far it reaches? With all of the relays combined, before the camera cuts, at least a good 60% of the galaxy is decimated (And it didn't even show half the relays being wiped out).

already 1 step ahead of you. When the Crucible lets out the first burst, those shockwaves are clearly seen passing over earth. Whether they light earth on fire or only destroy the reapers is up to your readiness.

So what I'm saying is BASED entirely on what we see in the ending.

You're pretty arrogant in your rebutals for someone who willfully chooses to ignore the one piece of evidence that pretty much negates your entire argument.

To refresh your memory:

Tritium315 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

Normandy
is useless after getting hit by the wave, stands to reason all other
ships in the galaxy are too (and probably a lot of other ****
too).

Yeah that's the confusing part. I absolutely hate that part of the ending and wish it was wiped off.

My
particular take from that is it either has something to do with the
fact that the Normandy itself is an AI and the radiation blast is geared
specifically towards AIs.

EDI's fine though.
Also pretty much every ship in the galaxy uses some form of VI to help
it operate, and VI's count as synthetics (since the geth themselves are
just many many VI's working in concert, or at least they were).

[Gmandam]

Galactic civilization is screwed six ways from Sunday. If not from every relay going nova then from the issue of how they have been set up. The "core" (such as earth or thessia) worlds provide the knowledge and high technology items needed to keep the galaxy running. They get their resources from outposts which get their food from planets that provide food.

In fact one colony was set up just to supply Arcturus station with enough food.

Touching (i.e. messing with ) even one of these factors would provide enough trouble to screw over a generation. Destroying the way they get around completely destroys the whole system. Many planets would just die out as the things they need to survive aren't supplied to them. Others would face a decline as they are forced to begin the technological cycle all over again.

The quarians and the turians (at earth anyway) are dead(this presumes that the qurians would do the sensible thing and evavuate thier civilian population to rannoch) Seeing as a majority of their foodstuff suppliers ( their liveships the big massive ones in the background with what looks like a hamster ball) went to the sol system the quarian race is now facing extinction as they struggle to generate enough food to keep their 17 million strong people alive.

So the end result? Galactic pandemonium if the relays didn't go nova. Planets dieing off as they cease to have the materials they need to survive.The quarians with their liveships in sol are now facing extinction from starvation (because their food needs special treatment and processing before they can safely eat it)should the relays go nova? then majority of each race is dead and the situation is even more bleak.

Modifié par Gmandam, 05 avril 2012 - 04:03 .

[2papercuts]

Provo_101 wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

For several reasons.

The mass relays are seen exploding. The only previous instance where one did explode was arrival, in which it wiped out a system. Therefore we have to assume that the systems with relays are also destroyed, because we have no concrete evidence otherwise. Unless you have some concrete evidence that this isn't the case instead of spouting what you think happened, I would advise you to remain quite on this subject until you find better evidence.

Your sig is BRILLIANT!!!!!

i originally had the DA2 dev saying that waves were a good addition for the games, but i feel that this quote is now more relavent

[Acidrain92]

Provo_101 wrote...

Acidrain92 wrote...

right. because all cars, buses, boats, and planes have AI integrated into them.

*rolls eyes*

The point is about reliance. 

*rolls eyes*

...what? The destroy ending doesnt destroy all tech, space magic or not. So those things would still be reliable...remember, AI is a taboo topic in ME. There arent many actual AIs in the universe. Its all just VI.

[Provo_101]

Acidrain92 wrote...

Provo_101 wrote...

Acidrain92 wrote...

right. because all cars, buses, boats, and planes have AI integrated into them.

*rolls eyes*

The point is about reliance. 

*rolls eyes*

...what? The destroy ending doesnt destroy all tech, space magic or not. So those things would still be reliable...remember, AI is a taboo topic in ME. There arent many actual AIs in the universe. Its all just VI.

It destroys the relays, which galactic civilization is reliant upon. Thats where the cars, buses, planes yadda yadda came from.

[Mr_Blue]

Gmandam wrote...

Galactic civilization is screwed six ways from Sunday. If not from every relay going nova then from the issue of how they have been set up. The "core" (such as earth or thessia) worlds provide the knowledge and high technology items needed to keep the galaxy running. They get their resources from outposts which get their food from planets that provide food.

In fact one colony was set up just to supply Arcturus station with enough food.

Touching (i.e. messing with ) even one of these factors would provide enough trouble to screw over a generation. Destroying the way they get around completely destroys the whole system. Many planets would just die out as the things they need to survive aren't supplied to them. Others would face a decline as they are forced to begin the technological cycle all over again.

The quarians and the turians (at earth anyway) are dead(this presumes that the qurians would do the sensible thing and evavuate thier civilian population to rannoch) Seeing as a majority of their foodstuff suppliers ( their liveships the big massive ones in the background with what looks like a hamster ball) went to the sol system the quarian race is now facing extinction as they struggle to generate enough food to keep their 17 million strong people alive.

So the end result? Galactic pandemonium if the relays didn't go nova. Planets dieing off as they cease to have the materials they need to survive.The quarians with their liveships in sol are now facing extinction from starvation (because their food needs special treatment and processing before they can safely eat it)should the relays go nova? then majority of each race is dead and the situation is even more bleak.

To add to the **** storm, dextro-amino acid life forms (Turians and Quarians) on Earth will die off pretty quickly once their military rations diminish. And the Volus, too, since they're ammonia-based.

[Tregon]

[quote]Funkdrspot wrote...

LOL you did NOT just ask me how to make a wrench....[/quote]

Why not? It is 2012. Tech has been there for ages. It should be piece of cake to prove that in situation where infrastructure has been shot to hell is piece of cake.

[quote]
First off to anyone who has ever worked with their hands, MAKING a wrench is easy if the issue is survival. I could carve a wrench out of some wood in 5 min if i knew my life would depend on it.[/quote]

How much it can do before breaking? There is good reason why wrenches are made of metal... Wood is not just that hard.

[quote]
Second, just because earth is attacked doesn't mean that the billions of tools and millions of tool retailers somehow are vaporized. [/quote]

Are you bit thick here? Retailers do not produce anything. Industry does. Industry is located around population centers. Which were shot to hell, meaning their machinery was shot to hell. Meaning they no longer produce anything.

[quote]
Third, you're fighting history here with your starvation issues. There are about a hundred cases throughout history where a massive famine hit an area and caused starvation but even at its worst people are still able to make it. [/quote]

Tiny portion of people are able to survive, in condition where their society has fallen apart and usually added more to suffering as people start fighting one another for crumbs of food.

[quote]
Plus, earth is setup to feed 11 billion people. Anderson himself says that the reapers are leaving small cities alone which is where you would grow crops. I think there's plenty of food already there. [/quote]

Infrastructure is still missing. Food production is not somehow magically done, it needs machines, fuels, lubricants, electricity... For modern age farm, loss of industrial infrastructure means end of farming.

[quote]
Based on what?! You're assuming more than me. What happened to all the food and crops that fed 11 billion? The reapers didn't hit small cities. [/quote]

Who is going to gather the crops if there is no fuel to drive harvester? (refineries are again near large population centers, not to mention that reapers appeared to specifically target industry) Who is going to deliver the crops anywhere?

Maybe farmers can struggle and survive as neobarbarians, crudely shaping their no longer useful machines into basic ploughs and shovels. But as society they no longer survive. 


[quote]
Dood this is not 100 BC greece. We have books and computers to hold over info. The game has functioning omni tools. Like most of your argument, this suffers from logical fallacy hasty generalization. [/quote]

Apparently it is difficult for you to grasp that computers do not work without existing infrastructure. Books burn, computer data is rather easily corrupted. Technology and knowledge are not magic, they do not preserve themselves.

[quote]
People can salvage what's left over. Considering the wide omnitool use I'd say that won't be hard. [/quote]

Because omnitools obviously do not need any infrastructure to work. When something in it breaks it magically fixes itself.

[quote]
Your rebuttals are, quite frankly, not educated. Their rebuilding would have taken much longer but they wouldn't have 'lost' any significant technology[/quote]

Your ideas are, quite frankly, of person who has zero grasp of how technology works out in the end. You think it is magic, like some person from deep Amazon who has never seen a lighter.

Germany would have lost much of it's advanced technology, as there would have been no means to maintain it.
Less than century ago, USA build Ohio-class battleships. They had excellent armour plating. Similar armour plating cannot be built anymore, because factories used to make it were scrapped ages ago and there are too little details left. This is LESS THAN CENTURY and in society which has not been ravaged by war. Same thing with lunar landing. People who made that stuff are long retired. Their knowledge has left, and died in many cases, with them. Should USA want to put person in the moon, much of the work has to be done all over again due to lost knowledge. and experience.

[quote]
You still continue to debate semantics instead of the point, which is when people got together to rebuild an area, and money wasn't an issue, it was rebuilt QUICKLY. Now throw all of the machines, omni tools and biotics they have at their disposal and they do it in half the time.[/quote]

What machines?= Have you looked at devastation in major cities, which are ALSO where most machines are?
There are no longer machines like there used to be! And what there are, there is no infrastructure to maintain them! 

TECHNOLOGY IS NOT MAGIC, IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO JUST HAVE MACHINE BUT YOU NEED ALSO ALL PREREQUISITES FOR FULL FUNCTIONALITY. LIKE FUEL, LUBRICANTS, SPARE PARTS.


[quote]
You don't understand the idea of 'first world problems' then. You're arguing semantics. It's a massive red herring.
[/quote]

More precisely, you do not understand difference between technology and magic.


[quote]
LoL what?! middle ages? What are you basing this on? So all those books, all those computers, all those omni-tools, all those planes and cars are vaporized? [/quote]

Infrastructure needed to run those things is gone. Plane is useless without fuel, computer without electricity.

[quote]
You're basing that on nothing. [/quote]

Look up on examples on Ohio-class ships and moon landers. This was less than century and in situation where area was not ravaged by devastation.

[quote]
Considering the use of biotics, omni tools and the machine level they have ( think Atlas & mechs ) factories could be setup from scratch in a few months. Existing factories could probably be renovated in a few weeks. [/quote]

What you are going to set up factory with? Magic "add water" factory kits?

Resources, resources, resources.
And how many mechs work without infrastructure to support them? 

[quote]
Once again you're just basing all this on absolutely nothing.
[/quote]
I am basing it on reality. Once society starts to collapse and loses infrastructure, it collapses far deeper than most people assume.

Look at Roman empire. When western part collapsed, amount of technology and knowledge they took with them was huge.

Romans were able to build huge structures from concrete, largest unreinforced concrete structure comes from age or Roman Empire. Lost after empire collapsed for 1300 years! Prime example of how collapse of society takes it's technology with it.

[iheartbob]

I'm one of those people that originally argued for Arrival being the exception because the mass relay was destroyed by an asteroid.  That being said, people have since pointed out the codex entry in game that states specifically anytime a Mass Relay is destroyed,  the energy released will "ruin any terrestrial world in the relay’s solar system."  As there are no other codex entries in the game at this time suggesting planitary systems can in fact survive, we are left with speculation. 

Now let's run with that speculation for a moment and assume that all life is not vaporized, we are instead left with hundreds of thousands, if not more, alien species stranded in and around an Earth with a devistated infastructure.  Now let's consider a real, in game scenario.  Refugees on the Citadel were already struggling with limited space, food, medigel, resources, etc.  Now take that same in game scenario and apply it to Earth, which is in far worse condition than the Citadel, with a larger magnitude of Refugees to contend with.

I'm a "the glass is half-full" person by nature, so I think it's absolutely possible that the combined great minds of the remaining survivors could come together to start rebuilding, but then I have to start questioning whether there will be enough time and resources to make it work in a viable time frame.  And then of course there are the shaky alliances we forged throughout the galaxy.  Will these alliances remain in place once the stress of competing for resources rears its ugly head?  Curing the genophage is my favorite storyline in Mass Effect 3 but the entire time I got the impression that we were simply prolonging an inevitable conflict between Krogan and the other advanced gallactic races.  I would hate to be living on Earth post-Invasion with that one conflict alone.

But this is, again, all speculation.  We were told Shepard's story would end but there would be no more major questions left after the conclusion of the story.  From where I'm sitting right now, the entire post-Catalyst scenario is a huge ? mark.  

[Joccaren]

Zolt51 wrote...

Why should it fall, and what will be the velocity of impact? Until you come back with an answer on this, you're just trollin.

Why should it fall? Gravity
Power of impact?
Over 1.9 * the power of the little boy bomb, per arm, per location, plus sending dust clouds into the air blocking out the sun's light and starting a new Ice age, whilst leading to the death of a lot of plant life.
This was calculated Earlier in the thread somewhere using numbers provided by the game, and assuming each arm is a perfect rectangle to form its terminal velocity. Each arm is not a pefect rectangle, and is more aerodynamic that that, and thus the terminal veolocity is increased, and the overall force of the impact in increased to over the calculated value - which was 1.9 * the power of the little boy bomb dropped on Hiroshima. That is per arm, not including the central ring, and instead of vapourising anything, this would instead more likely turn it into debris and send it airborn, forming a cloud that covers the Earth, blocking out sunlight.
In addition, holes in the atmosphere will be torn by the station's entry into Earth's atmosphere.

Of a greater concern than this, however, is the firepower of the Sword fleet towards Earth. Not all of those bullets hit Reapers, and any that missed hit Earth. Those bullets can get as powerful as 2 littleboy nukes on per bullet every 2 seconds. That is a lot of damage done to Earth.

[streamlock]

Funkdrspot wrote...

streamlock wrote...
sniped

Ok so now we have the real reason is that some fans just can't stand the unknown. Thank you for being the first truthful one instead of trying to wrap your dislike in BS. The problem with your POV is you feel betrayal simply because the story didn't go your way and that smacks of entitlement. So yes, the endings suck, they need revision and clarification and to remove inconsistencies or to forward the IT, but the fact that you think the relays blowing up is a money grab and betrayal is comedy.

Personally, I never saw the Mass Effect universe as static. I always saw that some major cosmic shift was going to take place and I knew that the second that Soverign said that the relays were their trap. As long as they can effectively wrap up the ending and make them different then I'm ok with HOW it ended and I'm excited for ME 4 and the potential it has with the sheer amount of chaos going on after the win over the reapers.

Well uhm-thank you, I think.

It's a little more complex (as things usually are) then just the story not going one way or the other.  The 'reset button' in and of itself is a big issue.  It has been done before, usually without success but it has worked out at times.  When it does happen, even when it works good and is pulled off correctly is a bitter pill to swallow. 

To apply it to another game..Lets say at the end of Halo 3 ALL the halo devices fired and all sentient life in the galaxy was wiped out save for who ever or what ever was at device zero (the ark, whatever it was called).  Effectively stranding them there.  Galactopocolypse.  Microsoft/Bungie would have violated that implicit agreement with the player and the creators.  It's their IP.  They can do that if they want.  But I'd wager it wouldn't work out to well for them in the long run.  How to destroy an IP in 10 minutes-Halo style.

I'll admit, ME is no where near as linear an experience as Halo was, or ever will be.  And at some point EA Edmonton had to do some railroading for the sake of sanity of the writting staff.  But to think that it was done purely in service of the narritive and plot with zero self interest in freeing up the IP for ease of production is-well comedy.

But more damning, and a big source of the 'betrayal' feeling is the false reinforcement of that non spoken agreement with the player base.  I'm not going to regurgitate all the dev quotes-but it was implied that yes-they understand that railroading of ME to a single bespoke outcome and not having the ability to this and that is not something they would do to the playerbase.  Like they reached out and said (yeah, we know how you feel, we are not going to stab you in the back-we cool)

And what you alluded to.....The delivery sucked.  The hard reset button is a bitter pill to swallow anyway, but when you deliver it in such a totally ****** poor way, in every imaginable way possible it makes it an absoutly horrid affiar.  Not only does it feel like they just decided to bend you over, but they didn't even bother to give you the benifit of a reach around while they were doing it. 



That being said, as Drew K. stated.   ME was always about the Reapers and the Relays.  I'd be an fool to say that the relays blowing up was not in service to whatever narritive they had bouncing around the office for years.  But ultimately, by design or accident, I am still being bent over.  Maybe pitching a fit about having to pay $10 bucks for that reach around does make me entitled.  And if so-so be it.  My sense of directing the narrative might have been as illusioned as it was real.  But at least wait untill the next game to destroy that illusion God damn it.

Modifié par streamlock, 05 avril 2012 - 05:24 .