423 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Zolt51 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

Well when things blow up parts tend to go in all directions, being just above earth does not give alot of room for even one of those five arms to miss. You only need one to make a bad day for earth.  

The parts are not shown to move away from each other at high speed. It is not a given at all that the change in velocity due to the explosion will be enough to send major parts on a collision course. Maybe they will be on a decaying orbit, but there could still be years, or decades before any impact. Whether the citadel was in a stable orbit to begin with, THAT is the big question in my opinion.

Hell, I'm not sure, but the pieces might even clump back together eventually under their own gravity.

No.  Not in low earth orbit.  The pieces would only cluster at lagrange points and the citadel is no where near any of those.  Given that it's in low earth orbit, the nascent atmosphere along with solar wind will eventually cause the debris to decay and fall into the earth...and don't forget the debris from all the destroyed ships (if the Normandy was nearly destroyed running away from the shockwave, then all of sword and shield ships are gone too...and many of those were dreadnaughts!).

Earth is hosed.

-Polaris

[Joccaren]

Zolt51 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

Personally I'd be more worried about that 40km long space station (the citadel) breaking up over earth, something similar killed the dinos

Already discussed multiple times. Why do you think it will fall down, and what will be the impact velocity if it does? Even an approximate figure is ok.

As I stated on previous page:
Reason for fall: Gravity.
Damage dealt by fall: Over 1.9 Little Boy Nuclear Bombs, per arm, spread across different areas of the Earth.

What this leads to: Not a massive shockwave of energy or W/E as some expect it to be, but still substantial force hitting the Earth. I doubt it will vapourise the dust it kicks up, and as such all that dust and debris rises into the atmosphere. The atmosphere is now filled with dust, blocking sunlight and damaging plant growth and animal life.
In addition, atmospheric damage caused by re-entry of Citadel into Earth's atmosphere.

More problematic however is Sword Fleet Bombardment. Will have caused a lot more damage than the Citadel crashing.

[yukon fire]

Zolt51 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Remember the citedal itself is a giant mass-relay and thus a giant mass effect engine.  Having it explode in low earth orbit.....problematic.

Consider that if the shockwave is strong enough to disable the Normandy moving away from it at FTL, then what it does to the fleet in the Sol System and earth itself is again....problematic.

-Polaris

That shockwave is ALREADY shown explicitly to pass over the earth without causing major damage  (except if you have low EMS). What more do you want? The real question in my opinion is why it damages the Normandy.

What we are discussing here is the risk of impact with earth, I just want the previous poster to clarify and argument his position.

So you believe that something the size of the citadel could blow up in earth's upper atmosphere and not do any damage to anyone on earth? The citadel is bigger than the rock in "bring down the sky" so the estimations for damage should be similar  

[Zolt51]

IanPolaris wrote...

  It will be a completely different fictional world.

No thanks.

-Polaris

You say no thanks. I say, yes, please! I guess we can agree to disagree on that one.

[yukon fire]

IanPolaris wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

Well when things blow up parts tend to go in all directions, being just above earth does not give alot of room for even one of those five arms to miss. You only need one to make a bad day for earth.  

The parts are not shown to move away from each other at high speed. It is not a given at all that the change in velocity due to the explosion will be enough to send major parts on a collision course. Maybe they will be on a decaying orbit, but there could still be years, or decades before any impact. Whether the citadel was in a stable orbit to begin with, THAT is the big question in my opinion.

Hell, I'm not sure, but the pieces might even clump back together eventually under their own gravity.

No.  Not in low earth orbit.  The pieces would only cluster at lagrange points and the citadel is no where near any of those.  Given that it's in low earth orbit, the nascent atmosphere along with solar wind will eventually cause the debris to decay and fall into the earth...and don't forget the debris from all the destroyed ships (if the Normandy was nearly destroyed running away from the shockwave, then all of sword and shield ships are gone too...and many of those were dreadnaughts!).

Earth is hosed.

-Polaris

Do ezzo cores explode on impact? possible ezzo fallout from crashing ships? 

[Zolt51]

yukon fire wrote...

So you believe that something the size of the citadel could blow up in earth's upper atmosphere and not do any damage to anyone on earth? The citadel is bigger than the rock in "bring down the sky" so the estimations for damage should be similar  

That is earth's orbit, probably in the 2-300km range. The explosion itself has already been shown not to do damage so there is nothing to discuss. What we are discussing here is the possibility of the pieces falling down and causing damage. It is a real possibility, but needs proof. 

[BobbyDylan]

Zolt51 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Then it's a plothole.  If the shockwave didn't damage Big Ben, then it shouldn't be any threat to the Normady.

You don't get to weasel out of this one.

-Polaris

Yes, that one is a plot hole and I perfectly agree. Saying that the citadel will impact and destroy all life on earth. *that* is pure groundless speculation.

No more groundless specualtion that saying the Mass relays exploding wont wipe out the system they're in. ( especcialy because the game goes to such lengths to tell you it will).

Assuming that the falling remains of the space station will cause damage is as much comon sense as assuming the missed mass driver shots from the battle will cause damage.

[IanPolaris]

Zolt51 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

  It will be a completely different fictional world.

No thanks.

-Polaris

You say no thanks. I say, yes, please! I guess we can agree to disagree on that one.

Then it's not Mass Effect.  Enough said.

-Polaris

[Sugaki]

ZajoE38 wrote...
It is simple - mass relays didn't blow up like the Alpha relay. They just crumbled and released harmless energy from Crucible. Though if it's harmless depends on how well was it built (EMS).

Basically, all pro-enders theories hinge on wild and ridiculous guesses that directly go against the established universe. How do you know mass relays didn't blow up like the Alpha relay? Oh. you don't.

I can do exactly what you do--and make up my own arbitrary explanation. Unicorns live inside the mass relays, that have a RGB cannon that they fire to other relays. There's nothing to disprove that, so that must have happened.

Any competent writer would maintain consistency of the universe--especially in something as vital as the ending. To flip the established canon upside down in a span of 5 minutes is just crappy writing, pure and simple.

Okay. Even IF relays didn't cause a supernova to wipe out the solar system, you still have Turians that can't eat anything on Earth. And it takes years to get to their home system. They don't eat Earth food--oh that's right, like everything else you didn't read that either. So you have thousands aboard Turian ships, without food supplies. Guess what?  They'll all die. Same goes for Quarians.

[IanPolaris]

yukon fire wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

Well when things blow up parts tend to go in all directions, being just above earth does not give alot of room for even one of those five arms to miss. You only need one to make a bad day for earth.  

The parts are not shown to move away from each other at high speed. It is not a given at all that the change in velocity due to the explosion will be enough to send major parts on a collision course. Maybe they will be on a decaying orbit, but there could still be years, or decades before any impact. Whether the citadel was in a stable orbit to begin with, THAT is the big question in my opinion.

Hell, I'm not sure, but the pieces might even clump back together eventually under their own gravity.

No.  Not in low earth orbit.  The pieces would only cluster at lagrange points and the citadel is no where near any of those.  Given that it's in low earth orbit, the nascent atmosphere along with solar wind will eventually cause the debris to decay and fall into the earth...and don't forget the debris from all the destroyed ships (if the Normandy was nearly destroyed running away from the shockwave, then all of sword and shield ships are gone too...and many of those were dreadnaughts!).

Earth is hosed.

-Polaris

Do ezzo cores explode on impact? possible ezzo fallout from crashing ships? 

Eezo cores do overheat and possibly explode (see Arrival) and it doesn't take that long for it to happen.  An unregulated eezo core is a disaster waiting to happen.  More to the point the Citadel is itself a relay and we know what happens to systems that have mass relays destroyed in them....

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Sugaki wrote...

Okay. Even IF relays didn't cause a supernova to wipe out the solar system, you still have Turians that can't eat anything on Earth. And it takes years to get to their home system. They don't eat Earth food--oh that's right, like everything else you didn't read that either. So you have thousands aboard Turian ships, without food supplies. Guess what?  They'll all die. Same goes for Quarians.

Well the Quarians did bring their live-ships as Psuedo-Dreadnaughts which means the Quarians will probably have food...unless the Turians in the Sol System decide to go to war with the Quarians to take it.  Of course the Geth might have something to say about that.....

Hmm, I'd say the Turians are hosed.

-Polaris

[yukon fire]

Zolt51 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

So you believe that something the size of the citadel could blow up in earth's upper atmosphere and not do any damage to anyone on earth?

That is earth's orbit, probably in the 2-300km range. The explosion itself has already been shown not to do damage so there is nothing to discuss. What we are discussing here is the possibility of the pieces falling down and causing damage. It is a real possibility, but needs proof. 

?

I need to prove that gravity exists? Things fall and the citadel is bigger than the rock in "bring down the sky" so the estimations for damage to earth should be similar  

[Zolt51]

Joccaren wrote...

As I stated on previous page:
Reason for fall: Gravity.
Damage dealt by fall: Over 1.9 Little Boy Nuclear Bombs, per arm, spread across different areas of the Earth.

What this leads to: Not a massive shockwave of energy or W/E as some expect it to be, but still substantial force hitting the Earth. I doubt it will vapourise the dust it kicks up, and as such all that dust and debris rises into the atmosphere. The atmosphere is now filled with dust, blocking sunlight and damaging plant growth and animal life.
In addition, atmospheric damage caused by re-entry of Citadel into Earth's atmosphere.

More problematic however is Sword Fleet Bombardment. Will have caused a lot more damage than the Citadel crashing.

You are making a big assumption here: that the citadel had 0 or low initial velocity. And in this case you are right, there will be strong localized damage (actually in the order of several thousand times Little Boy at least). But still, several thousand times short of a global extinction event.  That's due to the low impact velocity.

The more worrying hypothesis is if the citadel was in a stable, low earth orbit to begin with. That means a velocity in the 20km/s ballpark. This would lead to a much more damaging impact IF it did fall. Still about 250x less than dinosaur extinction event in the worst case scenario (Whole citadel impacting)

I have no idea what the Sword Fleet bombardment did. I assume they knew what they were doing.

[Zolt51]

yukon fire wrote...

I need to prove that gravity exists? Things fall and the citadel is bigger than the rock in "bring down the sky" so the estimations for damage to earth should be similar  

Oh, things fall alright.... they just don't fall straight down. Or how do you think we're keeping all those satellites in orbit today.

Give me the initial altitude and velocity of the citadel, and I'll tell you if it will fall.

[yukon fire]

Zolt51 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

I need to prove that gravity exists? Things fall and the citadel is bigger than the rock in "bring down the sky" so the estimations for damage to earth should be similar  

Oh, things fall alright.... they just don't fall straight down. Or how do you think we're keeping all those satellites in orbit today.

Give me the initial altitude and velocity of the citadel, and I'll tell you if it will fall.

sorry but you can't blow something that size (and that close to earth) up and believe that just because everyone who didn't die is now amish everything is gonna be all right, or do you believe in magic?  

[IanPolaris]

Zolt51 wrote...

I have no idea what the Sword Fleet bombardment did. I assume they knew what they were doing.

Which means that the damage to earth might only be 'severe' rather than catastrophic...at least until the wrecked ships from Sword and Shield fleets come raining down over the next century or so on earth.....  We saw several planets in ME2 rendered lifeless for less.  The problem is that no firing solution is perfect and ships WILL miss each other and as the Gunny said on the Citedal, "When you fire this thing, you are ruining someone's day, somewhere and sometime!"

-Polaris

[Zolt51]

IanPolaris wrote...

Then it's not Mass Effect.  Enough said.

-Polaris

Well of course it isn't. They've made 3 games in the same universe already, time for a change!

[Zolt51]

IanPolaris wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

I have no idea what the Sword Fleet bombardment did. I assume they knew what they were doing.

Which means that the damage to earth might only be 'severe' rather than catastrophic...at least until the wrecked ships from Sword and Shield fleets come raining down over the next century or so on earth.....  We saw several planets in ME2 rendered lifeless for less.  The problem is that no firing solution is perfect and ships WILL miss each other and as the Gunny said on the Citedal, "When you fire this thing, you are ruining someone's day, somewhere and sometime!"

-Polaris

OK so you're saying we shouldn't have fought the reapers at all for fear of rendering the earth uninhabitable? OK.

[Nightdragon8]

Zolt51 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

I have no idea what the Sword Fleet bombardment did. I assume they knew what they were doing.

Which means that the damage to earth might only be 'severe' rather than catastrophic...at least until the wrecked ships from Sword and Shield fleets come raining down over the next century or so on earth.....  We saw several planets in ME2 rendered lifeless for less.  The problem is that no firing solution is perfect and ships WILL miss each other and as the Gunny said on the Citedal, "When you fire this thing, you are ruining someone's day, somewhere and sometime!"

-Polaris

OK so you're saying we shouldn't have fought the reapers at all for fear of rendering the earth uninhabitable? OK.

no what he is saying is that more damage may have been done than you or anyone else thinks.

OP: With the 'destory' end most syntic tech will be destoryed along with it, who is to say that tech didn't get destoryed also.

[Zolt51]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

OP: With the 'destory' end most syntic tech will be destoryed along with it, who is to say that tech didn't get destoryed also.

Who is to say that it IS destroyed? All you know for sure is that the Geth and EDI get the shaft. The rest is... *speculation*. And I'm not the one engaging in it.

I agree that a lot of stuff might be destroyed. But the damage from bombardment, eezo cores exploding etc has nothing to do with the ending, and is pretty much inevitable if you're going to fight the reapers in any case.

Modifié par Zolt51, 05 avril 2012 - 09:48 .

[SilentK]

IanPolaris wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

We need to realize, that by winning the war with Reapers, it's not important what will happen in next weeks, months, years, decades. But in thousands and millions of years. The ending represented the bigger picture. And ok if someone still don't understand - dead Reapers will be salvaged, their technology will benefit in rebuilding the galaxy and mass relay network. We can for example use their advanced FTL, allowing us to travel fast enough to reach Illium from Earth in a lifespan. Meaning that rebuilding relays won't take millennium but maybe a century of few. Should Normandy has active stasis pods, there is even chance for crew to leave that planet I know this is speculations and Bioware will never release content in that far future in ME universe, so we will never know what will happen, but it is very likely that it will end up like this.

To quote Jack, [deleted] that!  I am a fan of the Mass Effect universe as it is.  Destroying the mass relay network destroys that universe.  It feels like a big smelly middle finger erected by Bioware to it's customers.

-Polaris

Hmm... I don't agree. The relays and citadel where left to help the organics to develop along the lines that the reapers wished them to, wasn't it something like that. I do belive that one day they will be able to get there on their own. But... it might take a while. What was it Mordin said in ME2, if there are no problems to overcome a culture stagnates. If a load is to heavy to carry, the invetion of a wheel will help you. The organics will get there, in time.

[IanPolaris]

SilentK wrote...

Hmm... I don't agree. The relays and citadel where left to help the organics to develop along the lines that the reapers wished them to, wasn't it something like that. I do belive that one day they will be able to get there on their own. But... it might take a while. What was it Mordin said in ME2, if there are no problems to overcome a culture stagnates. If a load is to heavy to carry, the invetion of a wheel will help you. The organics will get there, in time.

Point.  Missing it.  Even if that were to happen (assuming that civilization even survives) it WON'T be mass effect.  It will be some other sci-fi universe and I'm just not interested.  If you are going to do that, just write up another universe.  Don't trash the successful one you've got.

-Polaris

[Menalaos1971]

Nightdragon8 wrote...
no what he is saying is that more damage may have been done than you or anyone else thinks.

OP: With the 'destory' end most syntic tech will be destoryed along with it, who is to say that tech didn't get destoryed also.

NO.  Synthetic LIFE is supposedly wiped out.  Not just tech.  And this is proven to be a LIE.  If EDI was on your London team and you chose Destroy, she can still be seen walking off the crashed Normandy afterwards.

[SilentK]

IanPolaris wrote...

SilentK wrote...

Hmm... I don't agree. The relays and citadel where left to help the organics to develop along the lines that the reapers wished them to, wasn't it something like that. I do belive that one day they will be able to get there on their own. But... it might take a while. What was it Mordin said in ME2, if there are no problems to overcome a culture stagnates. If a load is to heavy to carry, the invetion of a wheel will help you. The organics will get there, in time.

Point.  Missing it.  Even if that were to happen (assuming that civilization even survives) it WON'T be mass effect.  It will be some other sci-fi universe and I'm just not interested.  If you are going to do that, just write up another universe.  Don't trash the successful one you've got.

-Polaris

Well, I see what you are saying. I'm just not agreeing with you. But it's ok, we can't always agree with everyone on the forum. And, we would get pretty boring discussions if we did, right. I simply don't feel that it would ruin the game if humanity and the rest of the races who are left after my destroy-ending have to work at getting new tech. I'm just curious of how it's going to work out. I guess we feel very different about it, that's all    =)