423 réponses à ce sujet

[cutegigi]

Witty_Innuendo wrote...

For those who need a quick guide, OP's logic is as follows.

Food = Why can't they just plant it anywhere? Why don't we grow rice in deserts or wheat on Everest for snackies? Why can't we just put a tap on the moon and plant crops there? Your arguments are invalid!

Technology = Someone made it, therefore we can! What... you need materials, huge amounts of eezo, existing knowledge of how exactly the mass relays work? But... they were built before! Why can't tribes in the amazon build planes and fly out of the jungle! Your arguments are invalid!

yeah. OP is the eternal optimist.

[Shepard Wins]

@Funkdrspot - you know what, let's assume for a moment that you're right. They can rebuild, plant seeds (yeaaah, but nevermind) etc.

The problem is this is all speculation. The ending doesn't indicate any of this. It shows you NOTHING. Zero, zip. Assumption contrary to yours, that everybody's dead and Shepard has just comitted galactic genocide is as good as yours. And in this genre, with this character focus, it's just ******-poor writing and a f***-u to fans. Period.

Modifié par Shepard Wins, 03 avril 2012 - 08:37 .

[Laughing.Man.d8D]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Witty_Innuendo wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

No mass relays = no efficient interstellar travel = no galactic community.

the Milky Way as it's portrayed in ME could no longer exist. That game world we all loved and worked so hard to save? It's no longer possible.

1st world problems. Your options are to stop crying, rebuild the mass relays and rebuild civilization or galaxy wide genocide.

In a way, it FITS because the reapers made the citadel. They made the relays. They can be made again. Will trade and travel suffer? Sure but it beats being liquified into a McReaper McNugget.

And my question is how do you remake them in time? Surely by the time you figured out the technology, gathered enough resources to build it, and then build a connecting relay, you would have dies from mass starvation (Quarians and Turians on different diets), polution, etc.

All you're doing is massive amounts of assumption. How is mass starvation an issue when earth is right there? Do Quarians and Turians not have plants they can eat? 

Pollution might be a small problem but you act like it can't be figured out. It's not something that's going to cause serious deaths.

The one thing that supports societies with high populations is INFRASTRUCTURE, this means water systems, transportation systems, sewage systems, electricity, supply lines of food, things that modern society largely ignores and forgets about because it's just there. In a war INFRASTRUCTURES are targeted  and destroyed, in a hypothetical nuclear war the majority of deaths in cities aren't from the impact fo the bombs it's the slow death due to the loss of INFRASTUCTURE cause by the fires in the wake of the bombs going off. With thousands of reapers running around leveling everything, they might as well be slow working nukes. With earth in flames without the systems that use to support the former population of ~11 billion(definitely less not but not sure how many) more slow deaths are on the way even after defeating the reapers without the mass relay network.

The ending isn't bitter sweet, it's bleak and broken.

[Billabong2011]

If we're being completely honest, it's not only the endings I had a problem with, it's just that they're infinitely more atrocious than the others little issues I had with the game. I was willing to overlook those because the overall experience of the universe was still in tact, whereas the so-called 'conclusion' assassinates it.

[Funkdrspot]

Witty_Innuendo wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

fafnir magnus wrote...

Why would they pack seeds for what is widely considered a last-ditch suicide mission? Turians have no history of needing long-term sustenance on interstellar missions, and Quarians only brought the heavy fleet, not the life ships of the civilian fleet. Even then, earth in any ending has suffered serious ecological damage. If you have any experience in environmental studies you'll know that introducing entirely new species into an unfamiliar ecosystem can have disastrous consequences. This danger is magnified by introducing MANY different new species.

I wonder if OP thought US army bring potatoes seed to iraq or afghanistan.... just so that you know, in case supply route get compromized, just plat those damn potatoes. 

So the US army DOESN'T stock months of extra rations despite being maybe 1 day away by plane? Your own logic doesn't compute.

Even if they stocked YEARS of rations... they'd run out and then die. Quarian and Turian plants wouldnt grow on earth regardless. Your own logic doesn't compute.

What are you talking about? D-proteins grow on earth too. http://en.wikipedia....try)#In_biology

[Iwillbeback]

Speculation

[cutegigi]

Shepard Wins wrote...

@Funkdrspot - you know what, let's assume for a moment that you're right. They can rebuild, plant seeds (yeaaah, but nevermind) etc.

The problem is this is all speculation. The ending doesn't indicate any of this. It shows you NOTHING. Zero, zip. Assumption contrary to yours, that everybody's dead and Shepard has just comitted galactic genocide is as good as yours. And in this genre, with this character focus, it's just ******-poor writing and a f***-u to fans. Period.

I already mention about things only being his headcanon and such 

[Poison_Berrie]

Funkdrspot wrote...

As far as the plot hole about the relays not asploding entire solar systems, I always assumed that because the radius of the endgame blast were covering each star cluster ( cluster>>>>>system ), that the energy wasn't as concentrated.

That's cute, BUT IT'S WRONG!   

A blast of radiation spherically oriented get's less dense the further it travels, thus with a multi-lightyear blast the initial density is so huge, every one get's fried for at least a fraction of that radius.

Shaoken wrote...

*sigh* Asteroids colliding into Relays at faster-than-light speeds leads to Supernovas, because the energy is released violently. The ending clearly shows that a lot of energy is shot out through the relay before it breaks apart, and changes the colour of it, so presumably that changes the type of it to something less explodey.

First it was a crash at sub-light.
Two the Alpha Relay explosion didn't push an explosion through the system, but rather bathed it in lethal amounts of radiation in a similar fashion as the relays do in the ending.
Three if you go by the theory that a large part of the energy is expelled in the beam, where does that excess eventually end up and won't that energy be a lot more destructive than a regular Mass Relay explosion? Also why does the blast still cover lightyears if most of the energy is expunged before that?

Funkdrspot wrote...

All you're doing is massive amounts of assumption. How is mass starvation an issue when earth is right there? Do Quarians and Turians not have plants they can eat? 

Pollution might be a small problem but you act like it can't be figured out. It's not something that's going to cause serious deaths.

What does it matter if they start a nuclear war tomorrow, it's not like we can't figure something out something against the fallout and nuclear winter, before billions have died... right?

[Monarchos915]

Funkdrspot wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Again, all of this can be rebuilt. It provides a way for tech to deviate from what the reapers want

so.. it can be rebuild for sure because...... you say it can ??

In one form or another I don't see why not. SOMEONE had to build it so that means you can make it again.

The Protheans made a mini-relay on IIos so why another one couldn't be made is beyond me. Probably just your defeatist attitude.

alrite. You can continue to rely solely on your head canon while ignoring established lore and call it optimistic attitude.

What lore did i ignore? Point to it.

Codex entry regarding destruction of Mass Relays.


The blowing up relay decision = nova is a logical conclusion based on lore established both by the Arrival DLC and the Codex. When initially choosing your ending, you are given no information that would give you any reason tobelieve otherwise. That's a serious problem from a narrative standpoint. You can argue that it's a "controlled" release of energy, or the explosions look different, or something...but that's head canon and speculation. Nothing in the game ever specifically states that, and given the expansive Codex that goes out of its way to explain everything in the game, this is a problem.

Combine that with the all the other nonsense going on in the last 10 minutes of the game, and it's just adds to the cluster****.

Modifié par Monarchos915, 03 avril 2012 - 08:41 .

[fafnir magnus]

Those are laboratory setting observations. They also found arsenic based life in the remains of an asteroid. You don't see people talking about arsenic based beings evolving on our planet.

Your link does not demonstrate the ability for those plants to grow on earth, as they may have differences beyond simply the protein configuration. The configuration simply informs you why they can't eat anything already on earth. Thus your argument circles back to "they must have brought seeds".

[Pacellio2]

 OP your overlooking a few things. Firstly its not the year 2400 its in the mid 2180's. Secondly the Normandy gets hit by the RGB light and crashes. Now you can say it does that because it is in mid relay jump, which doesnt make sense because the Normandy was fighting on earth. So if the energy wave crashed the Normandy one can assume that everything with an Ezo core would therefore be destroyed. That is crashing the ENTIRE galactic fleet on earth or the moon or just floating dead in space. So now you have the entire galactic fleet crashing on earth, on top of the reaper devestation, as well as the Citadel crashing down. They're all screwed.

[Funkdrspot]

Shepard Wins wrote...

@Funkdrspot - you know what, let's assume for a moment that you're right. They can rebuild, plant seeds (yeaaah, but nevermind) etc.

The problem is this is all speculation. The ending doesn't indicate any of this. It shows you NOTHING. Zero, zip. Assumption contrary to yours, that everybody's dead and Shepard has just comitted galactic genocide is as good as yours. And in this genre, with this character focus, it's just ******-poor writing and a f***-u to fans. Period.

Well we can all agree on 2 things.

1. Having to rebuild is better than being slaughtered.

2. People will work to find a way and won't just 'give up'.

3. The tech level is a major plus


That's all I'm saying. Some might die, some might starve but it's not going to be an extinction event that people on here are thinking it's going to be. Mainly because most on here seem allergic to hard work.

[Funkdrspot]

Pacellio2 wrote...

 OP your overlooking a few things. Firstly its not the year 2400 its in the mid 2180's. Secondly the Normandy gets hit by the RGB light and crashes. Now you can say it does that because it is in mid relay jump, which doesnt make sense because the Normandy was fighting on earth. So if the energy wave crashed the Normandy one can assume that everything with an Ezo core would therefore be destroyed. That is crashing the ENTIRE galactic fleet on earth or the moon or just floating dead in space. So now you have the entire galactic fleet crashing on earth, on top of the reaper devestation, as well as the Citadel crashing down. They're all screwed.

Did i miss something where they said eezo cores were destroyed? 

[fafnir magnus]

that's three things, and I don't agree.

1) rebuilding is very likely impossible

2) people will most likely die, regardless of their efforts

3) tech relied pretty thoroughly on mass effect fields, which rely on element zero, which is notoriously difficult to find. That pretty car doesn't do jack for you without gas, and those nice ships, guns, etc, aren't going to do jack without element zero.

most will probably die, most will probably starve. It is the extinction event people are hyping it to be.

[Pacellio2]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...

 OP your overlooking a few things. Firstly its not the year 2400 its in the mid 2180's. Secondly the Normandy gets hit by the RGB light and crashes. Now you can say it does that because it is in mid relay jump, which doesnt make sense because the Normandy was fighting on earth. So if the energy wave crashed the Normandy one can assume that everything with an Ezo core would therefore be destroyed. That is crashing the ENTIRE galactic fleet on earth or the moon or just floating dead in space. So now you have the entire galactic fleet crashing on earth, on top of the reaper devestation, as well as the Citadel crashing down. They're all screwed.

Did i miss something where they said eezo cores were destroyed? 

Well all the eezo cores are based on relay technology so therefore if you have something destroying the relays why wouldn't it effect them as well

[sedrikhcain]

fafnir magnus, good point about eezo.

[Monarchos915]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...

 OP your overlooking a few things. Firstly its not the year 2400 its in the mid 2180's. Secondly the Normandy gets hit by the RGB light and crashes. Now you can say it does that because it is in mid relay jump, which doesnt make sense because the Normandy was fighting on earth. So if the energy wave crashed the Normandy one can assume that everything with an Ezo core would therefore be destroyed. That is crashing the ENTIRE galactic fleet on earth or the moon or just floating dead in space. So now you have the entire galactic fleet crashing on earth, on top of the reaper devestation, as well as the Citadel crashing down. They're all screwed.

Did i miss something where they said eezo cores were destroyed? 

No. But if the RBG explosion knocked the Normandy out of flight, then is it illogical to assume that all ships iin flight met similar fate?  I doubt most ships would be so lucky as the Normandy to land on some Adam/Eve garden world.

[lillitheris]

Funkdrspot wrote...
Slam an asteroid to a mass relay = solar system explosion

Crucible energy beam = same energy released but to ALL solar systems within that cluster

This doesn't even remotely make sense. The other systems have no connection to the relay.

[Funkdrspot]

fafnir magnus wrote...

Those are laboratory setting observations. They also found arsenic based life in the remains of an asteroid. You don't see people talking about arsenic based beings evolving on our planet.

Your link does not demonstrate the ability for those plants to grow on earth, as they may have differences beyond simply the protein configuration. The configuration simply informs you why they can't eat anything already on earth. Thus your argument circles back to "they must have brought seeds".

It's been like 5 yrs removed from when I took O-chem but you obviously haven't at all. D-proteins occur naturally right here on earth. They can be synthesized.

[count_4]

Pacellio2 wrote...
Well all the eezo cores are based on relay technology so therefore if you have something destroying the relays why wouldn't it effect them as well

Not defending OP here but the Relays aren't destroyed by the pulse but by sending out the pulse. This has no implications on other eezo tech.

[Funkdrspot]

Monarchos915 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...

 OP your overlooking a few things. Firstly its not the year 2400 its in the mid 2180's. Secondly the Normandy gets hit by the RGB light and crashes. Now you can say it does that because it is in mid relay jump, which doesnt make sense because the Normandy was fighting on earth. So if the energy wave crashed the Normandy one can assume that everything with an Ezo core would therefore be destroyed. That is crashing the ENTIRE galactic fleet on earth or the moon or just floating dead in space. So now you have the entire galactic fleet crashing on earth, on top of the reaper devestation, as well as the Citadel crashing down. They're all screwed.

Did i miss something where they said eezo cores were destroyed? 

No. But if the RBG explosion knocked the Normandy out of flight, then is it illogical to assume that all ships iin flight met similar fate?  I doubt most ships would be so lucky as the Normandy to land on some Adam/Eve garden world.

I just figured it had something to do with the special teleporter that the Normandy was using.

[Mobius-Silent]

I _like_ the Mass Effect setting. The Citadel and the Mass Relays are iconic components of this setting.
I like the ancient awe of the Citadel, I like the idea of discovering new relays while relying on the existing ones for the majority of interstellar commerce. IMHO I would have been happier if the _race_ that eventually became the first Reaper had actually make the Citadel and the Relays. Such that they _still_ stood as monuments to an ancient extinct race that made a monumental fall from grace.

The Mass Relay concept is a wonderful limiter, it explains why much of the galaxy is unexplored while at the same time making inter-stellar commerce common and interesting. You get the best bits of many different themes of Sci-Fi, and I like it

I am not interested in a post-apocalyptic takes-years-to-reach-an-alien-homeworld setting. Because then travel tends to coalesce in the hands of military and the rich.

[Funkdrspot]

lillitheris wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...
Slam an asteroid to a mass relay = solar system explosion

Crucible energy beam = same energy released but to ALL solar systems within that cluster

This doesn't even remotely make sense. The other systems have no connection to the relay.

The colored explosions are big enough to cover the entire star cluster.

[Pacellio2]

count_4 wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...
Well all the eezo cores are based on relay technology so therefore if you have something destroying the relays why wouldn't it effect them as well

Not defending OP here but the Relays aren't destroyed by the pulse but by sending out the pulse. This has no implications on other eezo tech.

You might be right...but i just see the pulse being like one big giant EMP on relay/reaper tech...otherwise why would the normandy of crashed....oh right speculation