423 réponses à ce sujet

[Qutayba]

The problem is that not only was the Arrival revelation about destroying solar systems reinforced by several conversations in ME3, but also we were given absolutely no information that would cause us to doubt that this was the case. Sure, we can "speculate" that the explosions were different, but we're not told either way. In fact, I wonder why Joker felt the need to outrun the shockwave if the explosions were benign. So, either most of life in the galaxy was wiped out, or we have another huge failure in storytelling to add to the list (or both!)

[Xultanis]

To those saying that mass starvation is an assumption its not. First off turians and quarians can not eat human food. Next the strain on ALL the resources on a planet thats probably already pretty much run dry will mean that people WILL starve. You have the WHOLE galatic force in the SoL system. Thats trillions of people. The krogan are there, the turians, the geth, the quarians, the salarians, the asari, the volus, the elcor. Then all of humanity.

Without a reliable way to travel through space then it just leads to only the worlds who were left behind to flourish. Earth is saved but its doomed, the races that came to fight will die eventually and again the only survivers are the ones who got left behind on there own planets. Colonies will go under because of no resources.

This ending effectively screws the whole galaxy.

Again 150hours worth of lore negated in 5mins. "Oh yeah and the relays are gone because I'm a random stargod child."

[eVelocity]

Funkdrspot wrote...
It's not like earth is overpopulated at the moment. Plenty of beach front property in London and Canada, that's for sure.

Not over populated you say eh? What about that massive intergalactic and interracial fleet hanging out around earth? The whole damn sol system is overpopulated at the moment...

[Keltikone]

The relays exploding is just a drop in the ocean of terrible that makes up the ending.

There are bigger problems with the ending than this, and by the way, a controlled explosion of something that has the power to slam an object to an almost instant "hyperspeed" ?


Space Magic 11!!11!!111111!!!!

Lots of Speculation for everyone !

[SimKoning]

Ok, new quesiton, round trip for what? and for who? It seems you are making a round trip to darkspace, and I have no clue why you would want to go there.

It was to illustrate how fast 12 light years a day really is. It's 4,380 times faster than light. Any civilization capable of those speeds isn't going to have a problem building a space empire. If Nihilus says otherwise, either it's hyperbole on his part, or the writers have no sense of scale of speed.

Regarding a magnetosphere: Explained above. It takes time to discharge a drive core. It ain't instant.

See point about gas giants.

Regarding Fuel: Read up on the ships. The Quarians use Helium 3 as they use moslty non-military vessels, and are similarly the only ones who can harvest it atm: All normal refining stations have been destroyed.

It's produced by solar wind, so it's all over the damn place in space. I don't see why they couldn't just rig up a Bussard collector and suck it up from space itself.

Other fleets, which are military fleets, use Antimatter in their drives. That is a LOT harder to make, especially without the right facilities.

It's more likely that they use antimatter catalyzed fusion, which would involve tiny amounts of antimatter and huge amounts of hydrogen. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.

And lastly, that is my point. Years. Do you honestly think they will live for those years on what little food supplies they have?

most ships seem to be equipped with cryo pods, including the Normandy, which is a recon ship. I would imagine they would need them in case they become stranded or for when they go on multi-year exploration/recon operations. The whole point of such a device would be for conserving resources for extremely long missions.

[SilentK]

leewells wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

When i hear people talk bad about the ending, i don't quite understand how the relays blowing up factors into the plot holes or the whole 'everyones gonna die/back to midevil times' ideas.

Did i miss something or are people in Mass Effect times somehow completely helpless and totally unable to hunt/farm? It sounds like a FTL-extension of '1st world problems'. I just don't get the idea of complaining about transportation difficulties when the alternative is galaxy wide genocide.

It's not like earth is overpopulated at the moment. Plenty of beach front property in London and Canada, that's for sure.

As far as the plot hole about the relays not asploding entire solar systems, I always assumed that because the radius of the endgame blast were covering each star cluster ( cluster>>>>>system ), that the energy wasn't as concentrated.

Read this carefully and follow the logic... Relays = Gone => Technology = GONE => Galatic armada = STRANDED over Earth => Earth = dead

Also without the mass relays, you cannot insta-travel to other points in the galaxy, making it so all other galatical technology, trade, replecation, etc an impossibility stranding a galactic armada over a singluar planet.

Well yes, the location of a major battle would perhaps not come out looking pretty. And yes, many people, and aliens on earth will die. However, it was a all out galactic war so I don't see how something else than major casualties will occur. And even if earth is lost, there are other planets. Those who are unfortunate enough to be stranded without food will die. But life will continue so it was still a victory. If the batarians could man up and join the wareffort on my PT then humanity should be able to do so as well even if we lost our homeplanet. That goes for all other aliens species as well. A very different life, without the relays, but live none the less.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Suppose you completed Tuchanka making all the paragon choices.  You cure the genophage, and Wrex and Eve are still alive to lead the Krogan down a better path, redeemed in the eyes of the galactic community....

And then the ending happens.

Wrex is trapped on Earth, so he won't be leading anyone.  You may as well have killed him in ME1.  Even if he was back on Tuchanka (a planet with no resources and whose atmosphere was maintained by the damaged Shroud facility, which the Krogan probably can't maintain without outside help that they now can't get without a mass relay), then it still wouldn't matter what you did because there's no galactic community anymore for the Krogan to help or hinder.

Casey Hudson tried to justify his pre release statements by claiming that the whole game is an ending, and he's correct up until the last ten minutes at which point all the plot threads the game has tied up are undone.  Forget whether or not the relays exploded, it might actually be a mercy after everything else.

[likta_]

SilentK wrote...

leewells wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

When i hear people talk bad about the ending, i don't quite understand how the relays blowing up factors into the plot holes or the whole 'everyones gonna die/back to midevil times' ideas.

Did i miss something or are people in Mass Effect times somehow completely helpless and totally unable to hunt/farm? It sounds like a FTL-extension of '1st world problems'. I just don't get the idea of complaining about transportation difficulties when the alternative is galaxy wide genocide.

It's not like earth is overpopulated at the moment. Plenty of beach front property in London and Canada, that's for sure.

As far as the plot hole about the relays not asploding entire solar systems, I always assumed that because the radius of the endgame blast were covering each star cluster ( cluster>>>>>system ), that the energy wasn't as concentrated.

Read this carefully and follow the logic... Relays = Gone => Technology = GONE => Galatic armada = STRANDED over Earth => Earth = dead

Also without the mass relays, you cannot insta-travel to other points in the galaxy, making it so all other galatical technology, trade, replecation, etc an impossibility stranding a galactic armada over a singluar planet.

Well yes, the location of a major battle would perhaps not come out looking pretty. And yes, many people, and aliens on earth will die. However, it was a all out galactic war so I don't see how something else than major casualties will occur. And even if earth is lost, there are other planets. Those who are unfortunate enough to be stranded without food will die. But life will continue so it was still a victory. If the batarians could man up and join the wareffort on my PT then humanity should be able to do so as well even if we lost our homeplanet. That goes for all other aliens species as well. A very different life, without the relays, but live none the less.

Life would have continued anyway, so that is not a reason why it is a "victory". Another such victory and nothing is left, its called a "phyrric victory".

[Joccaren]

SimKoning wrote...

Most systems would have gas giants, which have incredibly strong magnetic fields. Jupiter's magnetosphere can act like a giant particle accelerator it's so strong. These ships shouldn't have a real problem dumping their charge.

As far as the colonies go, I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that a colony with millions of people wouldn't have indoor farms. Growing food locally would be cheaper than importing in their case. As far as smaller colonies go, yeah, they are either screwed or they need to find a ship. Considering billions were killed by the Reapers, and Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians just to stop them, I can't say I'm surprised it ended this way.

Even with a magnetosphere of a Gas Giant, it is cited to still take time to release the drive core charge. If it were an instant affair, a lot of pirate ships wouldn't be caught with their figurative pants down whilst discharging their drive cores around gas giants. Upon close scrutiny, only some of the 'science' in the Mass Effect universe is even remotely practicle. The time it takes to discharge a drive core may not be part of this either. By the codex, and by planet descriptions, it still takes a reasonable amount of time to discharge drive cores around gas Giants. Nowhere near as long as at Terrestrial worlds, but time is still needed. This time also adds up fast when you have to do it quite often. 1 stop may not be much, 100 or 1000 stops would add up to a fair bit.

As for not having indoor farms: Industrial Colonies, Residential colonies. More money is put into building the infrustructure that will earn such colonies more money - either manufacturing facilities, or housing estates to bring in more people and likely some rent too. They may have built some few indoor farms, but space is money, and if those indoor farms don't earn them that money, they won't be building them. Remember, colonies must be funded, and those funders will want a return on their investment.
And the cost of importning goods? Who knows what that is. I'd take it more like the cost of going down to the supermarket each weak to buy groceries as opposed to turning half your house into a farm. The farming colonies are likely getting massively ripped off in how much they are paid for their food, and the traders would then sell that food at a price that isn't unreasonable to the other colonies - as if it were unreasonable they wouldn't pay.
All up, the colonies would have to weigh where their money should go, and that is likely a more complex issue than can really be deduced on these forums. If you have a massive influx of population, you aren't going to spend your time and money building more farms, your going to spend it building more houses. If you are getting increased demands for products, you aren't going to build places to provide food just incase the worst happens, you're going to build more manufacturing facilities to keep up with that demand. Food won't always be a colonies first priority - especially whn its just a Relay jump away - improving their infrustructure will always be high on the list though.

[SilentK]

likta_ wrote...

SilentK wrote...

leewells wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

When i hear people talk bad about the ending, i don't quite understand how the relays blowing up factors into the plot holes or the whole 'everyones gonna die/back to midevil times' ideas.

Did i miss something or are people in Mass Effect times somehow completely helpless and totally unable to hunt/farm? It sounds like a FTL-extension of '1st world problems'. I just don't get the idea of complaining about transportation difficulties when the alternative is galaxy wide genocide.

It's not like earth is overpopulated at the moment. Plenty of beach front property in London and Canada, that's for sure.

As far as the plot hole about the relays not asploding entire solar systems, I always assumed that because the radius of the endgame blast were covering each star cluster ( cluster>>>>>system ), that the energy wasn't as concentrated.

Read this carefully and follow the logic... Relays = Gone => Technology = GONE => Galatic armada = STRANDED over Earth => Earth = dead

Also without the mass relays, you cannot insta-travel to other points in the galaxy, making it so all other galatical technology, trade, replecation, etc an impossibility stranding a galactic armada over a singluar planet.

Well yes, the location of a major battle would perhaps not come out looking pretty. And yes, many people, and aliens on earth will die. However, it was a all out galactic war so I don't see how something else than major casualties will occur. And even if earth is lost, there are other planets. Those who are unfortunate enough to be stranded without food will die. But life will continue so it was still a victory. If the batarians could man up and join the wareffort on my PT then humanity should be able to do so as well even if we lost our homeplanet. That goes for all other aliens species as well. A very different life, without the relays, but live none the less.

Life would have continued anyway, so that is not a reason why it is a "victory". Another such victory and nothing is left, its called a "phyrric victory".

But why isn't it a victory that the current developed species were not harvested against their will? There were casualties yes, and I think that life will be very different. But I do believe that they will be able to make it.

[Bleachrude]

*Shrug*

I always assumed that the mass relays AND the citadel would go away...I mean, wasn't the big spiel from Sovereign in ME1 about how the citadel and the relays were basically traps that they set for organic species to follow?

[Joccaren]

SimKoning wrote...

It's produced by solar wind, so it's all over the damn place in space. I don't see why they couldn't just rig up a Bussard collector and suck it up from space itself.

So simply everything given off by the Solar wind can be used as fuel? I think we should get up there now and start harvesting that stuff now if its really that efficient and effective, and does not need to be refined or anything.

It's more likely that they use antimatter catalyzed fusion, which would involve tiny amounts of antimatter and huge amounts of hydrogen. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.

In both cases, Antimatter is still required. Antimatter ain't the easiest thing in the universe to make, and that tiny amounts that they would be likely to make without the right facilities wouldn't get them far fast.

most ships seem to be equipped with cryo pods, including the Normandy, which is a recon ship. I would imagine they would need them in case they become stranded or for when they go on multi-year exploration/recon operations. The whole point of such a device would be for conserving resources for extremely long missions.

How many Cryo pods do you think they would have? The Normandy had 20 at most, and that wouldn't sleep her entire crew. [There were 20 dogtags in the casualties of the Original Normandy in ME2, I don't think that included Pressly, and then there were those that escaped alive]. In such cases 2/5 of the ships population would help sustain the resources for longer, but the number of cryo pods on each ship, and the resources each ship has, are not known quantities, so there isn't a lot of ground to really settle this on.
Sadly, such is true for a lot of the debates about the ending. Without proper information given, we are left to 'Lots of Speculation', and that is one of the problems with the endings.
In case I've made this unclear, I am not for the idea that everyone dies. Some will still live. The majority, however, are doomed without the relays.
As for me, Its approaching midnight here and I need sleep, so I'll G'night, and I may continue this tomorrow.

[Vhalkyrie]

Light is visible energy. If you can see a massive expanse of light from the galaxy map, everything in that star system is reduced to cosmic dust. If the mass relays were powered down, they should stop spinning, not explode then send that beam of light to the next relay.

[Transgirlgamer]

@Joccaren You're right about the analogy, I admitted that my original one was wrong.

There is nowhere as far as I remember that states the destruction of the Mass Relays gives off radiation. What you see travelling out from the relays is whatever signal or effect or whatever you want to call it that effects whatever choice you made on the Citadel. I guess you could call it radiation because it radiates from the relays but that doesn't mean it has anything in common with radiation as we use the term.

As to what happens to the energy, it initiates whatever change you choose. I'd suggest that whatever happens on earth is the same that happens around every relay when they discharge then self destruct. Plus, it also passes the information of what to do to the next relay along. When it gets to the last relay in each chain, then either it could send the signal off into dark space, kind of like how our radio signals are travelling beyond our solar system or it dissapates somehow, maybe as light or heat. Or maybe that's why we actually see anything as your choice gets initiated. The 'shockwave' is actually the energy of the mass relays converted to light and heat and whatever is neccesary for your choice.

[Transgirlgamer]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Light is visible energy. If you can see a massive expanse of light from the galaxy map, everything in that star system is reduced to cosmic dust. If the mass relays were powered down, they should stop spinning, not explode then send that beam of light to the next relay.

Unless all you have emitted is light and maybe some heat.  As to the Mass Relays, It would take a long time for them to stop spinning.  If it were a self destruct mechanism, it's unlikely that it would be delayed for long enough for it to stop spinning then be destroyed.  Personally, I'd find a way to use the energy of the spinning as the self destruct mechanism.

[Vhalkyrie]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Light is visible energy. If you can see a massive expanse of light from the galaxy map, everything in that star system is reduced to cosmic dust. If the mass relays were powered down, they should stop spinning, not explode then send that beam of light to the next relay.

Unless all you have emitted is light and maybe some heat.  As to the Mass Relays, It would take a long time for them to stop spinning.  If it were a self destruct mechanism, it's unlikely that it would be delayed for long enough for it to stop spinning then be destroyed.  Personally, I'd find a way to use the energy of the spinning as the self destruct mechanism.

Cosmic scale is not a lightbulb.  100W light bulb emits about 100J/s of energy.  The Hiroshima bomb emitted 8.4x10^15 J of energy.  A dwarf star that goes supernova emits 2x10^44 J which generates a shockwave with a significant increase in luminosity as it expands.

[Pottumuusi]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Light is visible energy. If you can see a massive expanse of light from the galaxy map, everything in that star system is reduced to cosmic dust. If the mass relays were powered down, they should stop spinning, not explode then send that beam of light to the next relay.

Unless all you have emitted is light and maybe some heat.  As to the Mass Relays, It would take a long time for them to stop spinning.  If it were a self destruct mechanism, it's unlikely that it would be delayed for long enough for it to stop spinning then be destroyed.  Personally, I'd find a way to use the energy of the spinning as the self destruct mechanism.

Visible light isn't very dangerous.

But this is magic light we are talking afterall about here so none of that really matters anyway.

[Corrik Ronis]

Imagine in the latest Star Wars thing that the Force is destroyed, that there are no more Jedi ever.

Hold the line.

[Bleachrude]

Corrik Ronis wrote...

Imagine in the latest Star Wars thing that the Force is destroyed, that there are no more Jedi ever.

Hold the line.

The two are different things...

I've always considered EEZO the defining concept of the ME universe. Remember the into for ME1? It specifically talking about EEZO which is what makes Mass effect, well, Mass Effect.

Not the relays and not the citadel...

As for your question, isnt the stronger trilogy of movies the ones where there were no more Jefi and only a a couple of sith left?

Kind of disproves your point there...

[DTHD]

Funkdrspot wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

No mass relays = no efficient interstellar travel = no galactic community.

the Milky Way as it's portrayed in ME could no longer exist. That game world we all loved and worked so hard to save? It's no longer possible.

1st world problems. Your options are to stop crying, rebuild the mass relays and rebuild civilization or galaxy wide genocide.

In a way, it FITS because the reapers made the citadel. They made the relays. They can be made again. Will trade and travel suffer? Sure but it beats being liquified into a McReaper McNugget.

Even IF they can do that (which i doubt due to not knowing how even before most of their civilization was destroyed) a relay is required at the start and end points.

So it's likely a FTL trip would be needed to set up each end point. ( a la Lost in Space)

Said trip would take YEARS/ DECADES based on the FTL codex entry... That's time those at earth don't have due to the mess the planet is in and the large alien fleets with little available food in orbit.


Also... the coloured pulse is sent out in all 3 endings and the reapers only destroyed in one. Why are the relays destroyed in only 2 endings?  ( I was told they don't blow in the blue one? never watched it myself as i found the other two depressing enough)

It can't be the release of the energy pulse as that happens in all endings. That would suggest their operation is directly linked to reapers being active but why then are they destroyed in the synthesis ending?
 
Synthesis modifies but doesn't destroy anything so the only thing i can think of is the network had a failsafe build in to self destruct in the absence of reapers in their current form. But what would be the point in that if they considered themselves invincible?

Modifié par DTHD, 03 avril 2012 - 02:57 .

[Eclipse merc]

NYG1991 wrote...

Arrival DLC shows that destroying a relay results in an explosion equal to a supernova which wipes out all surrounding planets. The game shows an explosion with a blast wave but leaves it up to the player to fill in the details about whether or not they killed everybody.

Lots of speculation! 

[foxlockbox]

Imagine earth without planes and ships to transport cargo. Yeah? x100 and you get the problems galactic civilizations are facing without mass relays.

[Poison_Berrie]

[quote]Funkdrspot wrote...

[quote]Poison_Berrie wrote...

Who says it's radiation? Either way, the different destroy endings clearly show that the blast CAN be deadly but isn't if you do your stuff right. [/quote]
What else would it be. Are you saying the Relay created some sort of matter? How can that matter just be created, how can it fly at FTL speed while not interacting with matter in it's way destroying it with it's abnormal speed.


[quote]
Seems like an explosion to me...

[/quote]
Not enough matter in the vacuum of space to propegate a proper explosion, no massive plasma resevoir to expel (like a star). I think it's pretty obviously supossed to be energy.

[quote]
Red Herring. What does that have to do with the points at hand? 
[/quote]
Everything. Looking at Earth from space and taking into account the damage from the battle, the earth will be going through an extinction event cataclysm. Massive fires, create sunlight blocking clouds. Earth isn't going to be supporting a lot of life.
Yet you say it's okay they can just pull something out of hat and all of that's going to be fine.
Sure not everyone will probably die, but don't expect the survivors to do anything other than trying to rebuild basic society and working on agriculture.

[quote]Funkdrspot wrote...
I mean i know we're all taking part in the that is 'Speculation from Everyone' but yours seems to be stretching it a bit. There are tons of different types of radiation that we bathe in all day long that don't cause cancers ( that we know of ). 
[/quote]
Two things
One: Lethality is in the dosage.
Two: Two ending require radiation that actually interact with matter (synthesis and destroy) if this doesn't and thus isn't lethal than it also doesn't destroy synthetics or fuse synthetics and organics. And the third ending could do with tightbeam and Quantum entanglement.

[quote]Joccaren wrote...

A few things:
1. Eezo is not consumed as a fuel. That is chemical fuel - Helium 3 - that is used, or Antimatter for Military ships [So, Antimatter as fuel for 90% of Sword/Shield/Hammer]. Eezo is not used up at all, it simply builds up a charge on your ship that needs to be discharged often.
[/quote]
But I assume Eezo is consumed, isn't it?
I mean sure you don't power your fusion drive or anti-matter reactor with it, but you still use it for barriers, FTL and in the normandy's case even as a propulsion.

[Quietness]

Unless you use head cannon to create a brand new excuse than there is only 1 precedent set for when a Mass Relay blows (and they all blow). A lot of people like to operate inside of pre-stated cannon and pre-stated cannon says that all those explosions you saw were exactly that.

[Transgirlgamer]

Quietness wrote...

Unless you use head cannon to create a brand new excuse than there is only 1 precedent set for when a Mass Relay blows (and they all blow). A lot of people like to operate inside of pre-stated cannon and pre-stated cannon says that all those explosions you saw were exactly that.

You're almost right.  There's one precedent set for when you destroy a mass relay by ramming it with an asteroid.  None at all for whatever actually happens in the endings.  So we don't have enough information to know what would happen.  I admit that my ideas are speculation and probabilities.  What we do know is that life survives the destruction of the relays which suggests that something else happens than when you destroy a relay with an asteroid.