268 réponses à ce sujet

[leewells]

humes spork wrote...

leewells wrote...
(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

I've had a head injury before, and I have migraines, and yeah the blurred vision, skewed perception of time, awkward controls, sound filters, and all aren't exactly tells here that it's a dream sequence. It's way more parsimonious to assume Shepard has a head wound.

Nostradamoose wrote...

leewells wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...



Dreamy shaders?

I see shaders used to demonstrate that Shepard took a blow to the head, that he's injured. He's just got a huge concussion. I thought the blood on the side of the cam proved that quite well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLwZxUeJzK0 Glaucoma shader (dream)

http://youtu.be/QjWlb-99ZHs Glaucoma shader (very clear, clear, clear, clear (as harbinger hits you))

(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

Adrenaline rush? It... you know, explains this.

http://www.aele.org/...FPAUG/wb-19.pdf

Just saying

“During a violent shoot-out I looked over, drawn to the sudden mayhem, and was puzzled to see beer cans slowly floating through the air past my face. What was even more puzzling was they had the word “Federal” printed on the bottom. They turned out to be the shell casings ejected by the officer who was firing next to me.”

As for the tunnel vision:

“I told the SWAT team the suspect was firing at me from down a long dark hallway about 40 feet long. When I went back to the scene the next day I was shocked to discover he had actually been only about five feet in front of me in an open room. There was no hallway.”

Factual analysis of police officer in high stress situations and how perception was altered. It truly fits with the race to the beam.

Folks... Folks... This is just down-right clear denial of contextual artifacts of the game taken completely out of context for use of denial. Oh sure, the phenomena can be explained away perfectly with other real life situations, including sex, but it wasn't present during that scene was it? And I don't want to know how many time my life bar was blinking one bar red at me without said shader, nor when the use of the "ability" adrenaline rush does this particular shader surface. It is plain, simple, cut-and-dry that this shader is used in only two scenes in the game and you know which two -- or are you implying that Shep was in an adrinline filled dream the first 3 times the shader occures?

Modifié par leewells, 03 avril 2012 - 08:41 .

[Nostradamoose]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Just another bad case of consumer masochism. People want to be treated 2nd class, apparently. They even take some weird satisfaction out of defending the companies' "right" to do so.

Beats me every time. Humans are strange like that.

Now, seriously, that's not masochism I have. And I do believe that this is an attack towards me. It is useless to act like this as I am clearly only stating what the law says about this, I'm in no way defending the ludicrously bad ending bioware made. I'm only stating that the OP's theory about bait and switch is wrongly interpreted.


Now thank you, read my position before accusing me like that.

[nevar00]

I honestly think there's a chance for a false advertisement or something at least, given all those quotes. I'm sure EA/Bioware would worm out of it quite easily, but hey, it'd at least bring to light these really, really scummy business practices of lying (or at the very least, REALLY stretching the truth) and hopefully get these companies, and Molynuex, to cut down on them in the future.

Bait and switch would be harder to prove I'd imagine... false advertisment, on the other hand, might make some heads turn.

Modifié par nevar00, 03 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[Noblewolf]

Hy0ga wrote...




when i see this picture it makes me think that this is a huge wind up by BO and the real ending will come .

[leewells]

Nostradamoose wrote...

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Just another bad case of consumer masochism. People want to be treated 2nd class, apparently. They even take some weird satisfaction out of defending the companies' "right" to do so.

Beats me every time. Humans are strange like that.

Now, seriously, that's not masochism I have. And I do believe that this is an attack towards me. It is useless to act like this as I am clearly only stating what the law says about this, I'm in no way defending the ludicrously bad ending bioware made. I'm only stating that the OP's theory about bait and switch is wrongly interpreted.


Now thank you, read my position before accusing me like that.

No, you're not stating law, because as of yet have you quoted Blacks Law in the issue or any other legal resource -- the arguements you present are opinion and hearsay only.  I have a "Business Law" book right beside me (still warm from the scanner ) and I'm telling you, and have been telling you that IF THE ENDING IS FALSE, IF BIOWARE RELEASES REAL ENDING DLC, IT IS BAIT AND SWITCH.  Even if they don't it is STILL deceptive marketing that has enough grounds to pave the way for proving malace in its deceptive practices.

One more time: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE THE STATE OF MIND / MOTIVATION -- YOU ONLY HAVE TO PROVE THAT IT MAY EXIST... $$ IS MOTIVE.  Remember the legal MMO, Motive - Means - Opritunity -- neither of which have to be proven fact, only proven to exist.

Modifié par leewells, 03 avril 2012 - 08:47 .

[humes spork]

leewells wrote...

Folks... Folks... This is just down-right clear denial of contextual artifacts of the game taken completely out of context for use of denial. Oh sure, the phenomena can be explained away perfectly with other real life situations, including sex, but it wasn't present during that scene was it? And I don't want to know how many time my life bar was blinking one bar red at me without said shader, nor when the use of the "ability" adrenaline rush does this particular shader surface. It is plain, simple, cut-and-dry that this shader is used in only two scenes in the game and you know which two -- or are you implying that Shep was in an adrinline filled dream the first 3 times the shader occures?

In single-player when your shields drop and you start taking health damage, you do get a brief time dilation window and the screen does filter similarly. It's pretty disconcerting the first time or two you actually notice it.

Modifié par humes spork, 03 avril 2012 - 08:48 .

[leewells]

humes spork wrote...

leewells wrote...

Folks... Folks... This is just down-right clear denial of contextual artifacts of the game taken completely out of context for use of denial. Oh sure, the phenomena can be explained away perfectly with other real life situations, including sex, but it wasn't present during that scene was it? And I don't want to know how many time my life bar was blinking one bar red at me without said shader, nor when the use of the "ability" adrenaline rush does this particular shader surface. It is plain, simple, cut-and-dry that this shader is used in only two scenes in the game and you know which two -- or are you implying that Shep was in an adrinline filled dream the first 3 times the shader occures?

In single-player when your shields drop and you start taking health damage, you do get a brief time dilation window and the screen does filter similarly. It's pretty disconcerting the first time or two you actually notice it.

That was more of a throbbing shader though, it was not a steady dialation of time or "glaucoma".  What I'm trying to say, is there is no possible way you can transpose that shader (throbber) to the dream sequence and still think it was a dream; could you?  The same can't be said for the latter.

Modifié par leewells, 03 avril 2012 - 08:49 .

[Nostradamoose]

leewells wrote...

humes spork wrote...

leewells wrote...
(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

I've had a head injury before, and I have migraines, and yeah the blurred vision, skewed perception of time, awkward controls, sound filters, and all aren't exactly tells here that it's a dream sequence. It's way more parsimonious to assume Shepard has a head wound.

Nostradamoose wrote...

leewells wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...



Dreamy shaders?

I see shaders used to demonstrate that Shepard took a blow to the head, that he's injured. He's just got a huge concussion. I thought the blood on the side of the cam proved that quite well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLwZxUeJzK0 Glaucoma shader (dream)

http://youtu.be/QjWlb-99ZHs Glaucoma shader (very clear, clear, clear, clear (as harbinger hits you))

(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

Adrenaline rush? It... you know, explains this.

http://www.aele.org/...FPAUG/wb-19.pdf

Just saying

“During a violent shoot-out I looked over, drawn to the sudden mayhem, and was puzzled to see beer cans slowly floating through the air past my face. What was even more puzzling was they had the word “Federal” printed on the bottom. They turned out to be the shell casings ejected by the officer who was firing next to me.”

As for the tunnel vision:

“I told the SWAT team the suspect was firing at me from down a long dark hallway about 40 feet long. When I went back to the scene the next day I was shocked to discover he had actually been only about five feet in front of me in an open room. There was no hallway.”

Factual analysis of police officer in high stress situations and how perception was altered. It truly fits with the race to the beam.

Folks... Folks... This is just down-right clear denial of contextual artifacts of the game taken completely out of context for use of denial. Oh sure, the phenomena can be explained away perfectly with other real life situations, including sex, but it wasn't present during that scene was it? And I don't want to know how many time my life bar was blinking one bar red at me without said shader, nor when the use of the "ability" adrenaline rush does this particular shader surface. It is plain, simple, cut-and-dry that this shader is used in only two scenes in the game and you know which two -- or are you implying that Shep was in an adrinline filled dream the first 3 times the shader occures?

Nope, just saying they used the same filter for the anticlimatic dreams and the hyperclimatic race to the beam does not make it a dream. That's about the same logical fallacy as saying that : " The Kodiak Shuttle is blue and water is blue too, therefore, My kodiak shuttle is water" 

But here you are diverting the debate towards a theory that hasn't been proved. If we are to continue this discussion, we have to take the ending at face value, else, I'm wasting my time here.

[leewells]

Nostradamoose wrote...

leewells wrote...

humes spork wrote...

leewells wrote...
(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

I've had a head injury before, and I have migraines, and yeah the blurred vision, skewed perception of time, awkward controls, sound filters, and all aren't exactly tells here that it's a dream sequence. It's way more parsimonious to assume Shepard has a head wound.

Nostradamoose wrote...

leewells wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...



Dreamy shaders?

I see shaders used to demonstrate that Shepard took a blow to the head, that he's injured. He's just got a huge concussion. I thought the blood on the side of the cam proved that quite well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLwZxUeJzK0 Glaucoma shader (dream)

http://youtu.be/QjWlb-99ZHs Glaucoma shader (very clear, clear, clear, clear (as harbinger hits you))

(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

Adrenaline rush? It... you know, explains this.

http://www.aele.org/...FPAUG/wb-19.pdf

Just saying

“During a violent shoot-out I looked over, drawn to the sudden mayhem, and was puzzled to see beer cans slowly floating through the air past my face. What was even more puzzling was they had the word “Federal” printed on the bottom. They turned out to be the shell casings ejected by the officer who was firing next to me.”

As for the tunnel vision:

“I told the SWAT team the suspect was firing at me from down a long dark hallway about 40 feet long. When I went back to the scene the next day I was shocked to discover he had actually been only about five feet in front of me in an open room. There was no hallway.”

Factual analysis of police officer in high stress situations and how perception was altered. It truly fits with the race to the beam.

Folks... Folks... This is just down-right clear denial of contextual artifacts of the game taken completely out of context for use of denial. Oh sure, the phenomena can be explained away perfectly with other real life situations, including sex, but it wasn't present during that scene was it? And I don't want to know how many time my life bar was blinking one bar red at me without said shader, nor when the use of the "ability" adrenaline rush does this particular shader surface. It is plain, simple, cut-and-dry that this shader is used in only two scenes in the game and you know which two -- or are you implying that Shep was in an adrinline filled dream the first 3 times the shader occures?

Nope, just saying they used the same filter for the anticlimatic dreams and the hyperclimatic race to the beam does not make it a dream. That's about the same logical fallacy as saying that : " The Kodiak Shuttle is blue and water is blue too, therefore, My kodiak shuttle is water" 

But here you are diverting the debate towards a theory that hasn't been proved. If we are to continue this discussion, we have to take the ending at face value, else, I'm wasting my time here.

Its a game, if your shuttle had the "water" shaders, you would deduce that the developers were at least trying to convey to you the shuttle was made from liquid.  And keep in mind we're talking about 2 diffrent beasts, a shader or post processing filter is not (by far) a color, this is like calling a car, just a bolt.  Sure you can't look at one bolt and deduce from that one bolt that all bolts are rusty, but you can look at two rusty cars and deduce they are both old.

Face value is a much worse issue than bait and switch bud... it is severely a game sold a far lesser of value than advertised and expected in means that it was a MASSIVE QA fail.

Modifié par leewells, 03 avril 2012 - 09:05 .

[Keldaurz]

leewells wrote...

"But its just a game":  No, it is a PRODUCT, else you would have been using play-money to buy it. 

[leewells]

Keldaurz wrote...

leewells wrote...

"But its just a game":  No, it is a PRODUCT, else you would have been using play-money to buy it. 

Would you have rather me said, "It is a prodoct sold as a 3D DirectX SM3.0 Render with Normalmapping and specular shading" or "game"?  And keep in mind, I didn't say it was just a game

Modifié par leewells, 03 avril 2012 - 08:54 .

[Nostradamoose]

leewells wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...

leewells wrote...

humes spork wrote...

leewells wrote...
(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

I've had a head injury before, and I have migraines, and yeah the blurred vision, skewed perception of time, awkward controls, sound filters, and all aren't exactly tells here that it's a dream sequence. It's way more parsimonious to assume Shepard has a head wound.

Nostradamoose wrote...

leewells wrote...

Nostradamoose wrote...



Dreamy shaders?

I see shaders used to demonstrate that Shepard took a blow to the head, that he's injured. He's just got a huge concussion. I thought the blood on the side of the cam proved that quite well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLwZxUeJzK0 Glaucoma shader (dream)

http://youtu.be/QjWlb-99ZHs Glaucoma shader (very clear, clear, clear, clear (as harbinger hits you))

(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

Adrenaline rush? It... you know, explains this.

http://www.aele.org/...FPAUG/wb-19.pdf

Just saying

“During a violent shoot-out I looked over, drawn to the sudden mayhem, and was puzzled to see beer cans slowly floating through the air past my face. What was even more puzzling was they had the word “Federal” printed on the bottom. They turned out to be the shell casings ejected by the officer who was firing next to me.”

As for the tunnel vision:

“I told the SWAT team the suspect was firing at me from down a long dark hallway about 40 feet long. When I went back to the scene the next day I was shocked to discover he had actually been only about five feet in front of me in an open room. There was no hallway.”

Factual analysis of police officer in high stress situations and how perception was altered. It truly fits with the race to the beam.

Folks... Folks... This is just down-right clear denial of contextual artifacts of the game taken completely out of context for use of denial. Oh sure, the phenomena can be explained away perfectly with other real life situations, including sex, but it wasn't present during that scene was it? And I don't want to know how many time my life bar was blinking one bar red at me without said shader, nor when the use of the "ability" adrenaline rush does this particular shader surface. It is plain, simple, cut-and-dry that this shader is used in only two scenes in the game and you know which two -- or are you implying that Shep was in an adrinline filled dream the first 3 times the shader occures?

Nope, just saying they used the same filter for the anticlimatic dreams and the hyperclimatic race to the beam does not make it a dream. That's about the same logical fallacy as saying that : " The Kodiak Shuttle is blue and water is blue too, therefore, My kodiak shuttle is water" 

But here you are diverting the debate towards a theory that hasn't been proved. If we are to continue this discussion, we have to take the ending at face value, else, I'm wasting my time here.

Its a game, if your shuttle had the "water" shaders, you would deduce that the developers were at least trying to convey to you the shuttle was made from liquid.

Face value is a much worse issue than bait and switch bud... it is severely a game sold a far lesser of value than advertised and expected in means that it was a MASSIVE QA fail.

Ooooook? Massive QA fail... this does not make sense. Game is mostly bug free, goes from A to Z story wise, critically acclaimed (because hey, if we are going this way, might as well bring the critics up, which I'll have to agree with except for anything ending related) Only QA fail would be on the ending. It does not remotely touch the "Broken game" part.

And a game of far lesser value than advertised? Are you mad? That goes all back to subjective arguments on the narrative, something on which a court of law will NOT regard.

[Keldaurz]

leewells wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

leewells wrote...

"But its just a game":  No, it is a PRODUCT, else you would have been using play-money to buy it. 

Would you have rather me said, "It is a prodoct sold as a 3D DirectX SM3.0 Render with Normalmapping and specular shading" or "game"?  And keep in mind, I didn't say it was just a game

Man, i was agreeing with you with the meaning behind, i know there are a lot of people who are nitpicking on nonsense instead of thinking straight with their feet on earth of how they should be treated as paying customers, but don't let them get the best of you

[leewells]

[quote]Nostradamoose wrote...

[quote]leewells wrote...

[quote]Nostradamoose wrote...

[quote]leewells wrote...

[quote]humes spork wrote...

[quote]leewells wrote...
(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)
[/quote]

I've had a head injury before, and I have migraines, and yeah the blurred vision, skewed perception of time, awkward controls, sound filters, and all aren't exactly tells here that it's a dream sequence. It's way more parsimonious to assume Shepard has a head wound.
[/quote]

[quote]Nostradamoose wrote...

[quote]leewells wrote...

[quote]Nostradamoose wrote...



Dreamy shaders?

I see shaders used to demonstrate that Shepard took a blow to the head, that he's injured. He's just got a huge concussion. I thought the blood on the side of the cam proved that quite well...

[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLwZxUeJzK0 Glaucoma shader (dream)

http://youtu.be/QjWlb-99ZHs Glaucoma shader (very clear, clear, clear, clear (as harbinger hits you))

(I don't need to bring up the use of slow-motion do I?)

[/quote]

Adrenaline rush? It... you know, explains this.

http://www.aele.org/...FPAUG/wb-19.pdf

Just saying

[quote]
“During a violent shoot-out I looked over, drawn to the sudden mayhem, and was puzzled to see beer cans slowly floating through the air past my face. What was even more puzzling was they had the word “Federal” printed on the bottom. They turned out to be the shell casings ejected by the officer who was firing next to me.”[/quote]

As for the tunnel vision:

[quote]
“I told the SWAT team the suspect was firing at me from down a long dark hallway about 40 feet long. When I went back to the scene the next day I was shocked to discover he had actually been only about five feet in front of me in an open room. There was no hallway.”[/quote]

Factual analysis of police officer in high stress situations and how perception was altered. It truly fits with the race to the beam.[/quote]

Folks... Folks... This is just down-right clear denial of contextual artifacts of the game taken completely out of context for use of denial. Oh sure, the phenomena can be explained away perfectly with other real life situations, including sex, but it wasn't present during that scene was it? And I don't want to know how many time my life bar was blinking one bar red at me without said shader, nor when the use of the "ability" adrenaline rush does this particular shader surface. It is plain, simple, cut-and-dry that this shader is used in only two scenes in the game and you know which two -- or are you implying that Shep was in an adrinline filled dream the first 3 times the shader occures?
[/quote]
Nope, just saying they used the same filter for the anticlimatic dreams and the hyperclimatic race to the beam does not make it a dream. That's about the same logical fallacy as saying that : " The Kodiak Shuttle is blue and water is blue too, therefore, My kodiak shuttle is water" 

But here you are diverting the debate towards a theory that hasn't been proved. If we are to continue this discussion, we have to take the ending at face value, else, I'm wasting my time here.[/quote]

Its a game, if your shuttle had the "water" shaders, you would deduce that the developers were at least trying to convey to you the shuttle was made from liquid.

Face value is a much worse issue than bait and switch bud... it is severely a game sold a far lesser of value than advertised and expected in means that it was a MASSIVE QA fail.

[/quote]

Ooooook? Massive QA fail... this does not make sense. Game is mostly bug free, goes from A to Z story wise, critically acclaimed (because hey, if we are going this way, might as well bring the critics up, which I'll have to agree with except for anything ending related) Only QA fail would be on the ending. It does not remotely touch the "Broken game" part.

And a game of far lesser value than advertised? Are you mad? That goes all back to subjective arguments on the narrative, something on which a court of law will NOT regard.[/quote]

Really?  You don't consider the lack of quest tracking a QA Fail?  You don't think the writers should be part of the QA process?  You don't think Shep holding his side where he shot anderson is a bug?  I can REALLY go on for hours man.

If the indoc theory is just conjecture and is not the presentation -- then the ending and some of the meat of the game is fail-after-fail.  I would like to believe that BioWare QA has a little more intellect than that.

As (and no puns please) hobbiest aviator, we have a few "philosophy's" that we commonly relate to art, one of which is "If your flight is your gallery, your landing is your masterpiece".  Examine that a moment as it has a lot of meaning that is also even used in MOVIES (and other games).  Maybe it is easier if I transpose that part "landing" for "ending" -- maybe it makes a little more sense in the grand scheme of things.

The fact is, when a story such as this takes such a nose dive as you are suggesting AT ANY POINT IN THE STORY it can be recovered (like with shep's resurrection in ME2), but the ending, is known by artists everywhere (even aviators) as the part of the "show" that must be flawless.

Modifié par leewells, 03 avril 2012 - 09:16 .

[Nostradamoose]

Hanlon's razor, well yea, Bioware's writers dropped the ball.

It happens, it's the matrix syndrome I guess

[Nostradamoose]

Keldaurz wrote...

leewells wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

leewells wrote...

"But its just a game":  No, it is a PRODUCT, else you would have been using play-money to buy it. 

Would you have rather me said, "It is a prodoct sold as a 3D DirectX SM3.0 Render with Normalmapping and specular shading" or "game"?  And keep in mind, I didn't say it was just a game

Man, i was agreeing with you with the meaning behind, i know there are a lot of people who are nitpicking on nonsense instead of thinking straight with their feet on earth of how they should be treated as paying customers, but don't let them get the best of you

Bud, I'm all behind you if you ask for the refund of a broken game in court, a game that simply does not work. As for disagreeing with the story and its narrative, I won't follow you there in court.

No bloody way. But I'll fight for your right to actually ask for a better ending, that is no exception. What they gave us as an ending SUCKS and it has to be fixed. I'm just saying that courts are clearly not the way.

[leewells]

Nostradamoose wrote...

Hanlon's razor, well yea, Bioware's writers dropped the ball.

It happens, it's the matrix syndrome I guess

The matrix was a bittersweet ending, a great ending can even be argued -- but the ME3 endings (under your suggestion of face-value) is just bitter, plainly bitter because there is too much "lore" you also have to take a face value, such as a stranded galactic armada stranded in earth's orbit without VI or AI to guide them into FTL, no Mass Relays (not to mention they create super-nova's when exploded which was pretty clear on the galaxy map which means shead your tears, earth is "buhbuy") No tech, and the most significant people in your life are either standed OR DEAD without knowing what your accomplishments actually accomplished.  Soooo... What good is getting Earth back if it just explodes in the super-nova of the collapsing mass-relay?  And I'm sorry, the "colors" are just simply... Space magic.

Bittersweet geneerally refrences that the state of the "world" is BETTER OFF (the sweet part) than before it started -- but you have to seriously consider "why not just balls-to-the-wall and just toe-to-toe the reapers instead of this BS menu?" that is clearly an advertisment violation of the "you won't just be able to find a long-lost on/off button for the reapers" routine.

But as I've said before in countless other threads, there are only 2 schoos of opinion of the ending:  1) SPACE MAGIC and 2) Indoc.  I'm more inclined to believe that BioWare dropped us with #2 considering their track-record with ME1 and ME2.

Edit:

To your reply, I'm not, nor have I advocated that a law suit is the best way to achieve one's goals either -- you won't find that anywhere, this is another assumption on your part -- what I have said, and will say is that anyone whom would want to persue it (and more on topic to my OP) the person filing the FTC compaint and SOLID reason to do so.   As in another words, BioWare trying to fault those doing so is a rash display of their superiority complex that has obviously been indoctrinated into them from EA.

Modifié par leewells, 03 avril 2012 - 09:34 .

[leewells]

Keldaurz wrote...

leewells wrote...

Keldaurz wrote...

leewells wrote...

"But its just a game":  No, it is a PRODUCT, else you would have been using play-money to buy it. 

Would you have rather me said, "It is a prodoct sold as a 3D DirectX SM3.0 Render with Normalmapping and specular shading" or "game"?  And keep in mind, I didn't say it was just a game

Man, i was agreeing with you with the meaning behind, i know there are a lot of people who are nitpicking on nonsense instead of thinking straight with their feet on earth of how they should be treated as paying customers, but don't let them get the best of you

My bad, I must be skipping along and speed-reading a buch of this stuff in my "attempts" to multi-task here with work.  Sorry >_<

[Stanley Woo]

For advice on legal issues, please seek legal counsel. Thank you.

End of line.