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[TGOW]

blacqout wrote...
The ending made sense.

HEY EVERYONE, GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY.

[blacqout]

Esquin wrote...

blacqout wrote...

Esquin wrote...

blacqout wrote...

Esquin wrote...

blacqout wrote...

D_Dude1210 wrote...

A troll AND a hypocrite...

AWESOME!!!! /highfive!

If i was a troll, surely i'd make hypocritical statements as part of the act, as they're usually deemed to be quite inflammatory.

The actuality is that i enjoyed ME3's ending. It objectively made sense, and can be shown to have done so on every conceivable level. So deriding others for not being able to accept subjective opinions is not hypocritical at all.

Words mean things.

Why did shepard suddenly decide after facing impossible scenarios and always managing to beat them for years that he was going to bend over for some kid that all logic should say is an hallucination. (What with it looking like the kid on earth, the heavy blood loss, and the pseudo indoctrination TIM just pulled.)

Why did Joker suddenly run from an active war zone? The retreat order given was for ground forces, not the space fleet. We know this because the crucible is brough in after the ground retreat order is given and we can see the battle from the crucible.

How did my crew teleport to the normandy?

Just a few reasons why it doesn't make sense. Want us to believe you're not a troll? Answer those questions with words that make sense. 

I'm a big fan of Ian Fleming's 007 series. In the novels, James and M often mull over the idea that each man is born with a reserve of bravery and toughness. Up until that reserve is depleted the man can, depending on ability, do or withstand anything.

I agree with the idea, and it would seem that the writers of Mass Effect 3 do too. I recall a conversation in which Shepard has the ability to admit that he's unsure how much fight he has left in him.

He is critically wounded leading up to the events of the finale. We've never seen him in such bad physical shape (aside from when he died) and the game made the point of showing Shepard having the stuffing constantly knocked out of him on a more mental level.

I think that by the end of the trilogy, Shepard is a broken man. His well of toughness has ran dry, and he just wants desperately for the war to come to an end. That's why he's more... accommodating... of the Catalyst's views than he would usually be. This is reflected in the voice acting, i think.

Also, from a gameplay point, ME3 did use an awful lot of auto dialogue. The lack of ability to question could just be an example of BioWare forcing Shepard's hand for story reasons.

Ok sure. I mean my shep would never have done those things but fine. What about my other 2 questions.

Why did Joker suddenly run from an active war zone? The retreat order given was for ground forces, not the space fleet. We know this because the crucible is brough in after the ground retreat order is given and we can see the battle from the crucible.

How did my crew teleport to the normandy? 

Your Shepard would have. Its not something you can control. You can't just go to a shop and buy more toughness. When it's up, it's up. And ME3 made a point of saying that it's up. It very much complied with a running theme of the game.

My crew did not teleport to the Normandy. I took Garrus and James Vega with me on the final mission, and Liara and Javik were seen with Joker during the final scene. I'm inclined to put that down to developer oversight, or a bug.  I'm guessing that if you take your love interest, he or she will automatically appear aboard the Normandy.

Any number of things in an active warzone could have forced Joker to retreat or break formation. We're not told what happened. but we played the game as Shepard... who had his own problems at the time. An ME1-style switch between the events in the Citadel tower and the battle above would have broken the scene in my opinion... but this is certainly something BioWare will address in the expanded ending.

I disagree but whatever. 

How about the deliberate choice to avoid providing any kind of closure? 

How is that a plot hole? It was a creative choice, and i thought it worked.

My argument is that the ending could be reasonably interpreted so as to make perfect sense and posess precisely no plot holes. All that should be needed to make the ending acceptable to everyone is a little extrapolation... with BioWare outright stating what happened to the stranded fleet and why Joker was seemingly on the run, it will be fine.

[MikeRoz]

blacqout wrote...

MikeRoz wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I think he was talking about me.

If it does, i haven't broken them. I served my two day ban.

But this is not the same account you used then. Why are you not using that one? Was it banned?

Also I think this post tells us everything we need to know.

This is the first account i created and is linked to my EA account, which in turn is linked to my xbox live gamertag.

I decided i didn't like the name, so set up one in my real name. After i accidently redeemed some codes onto that account, which meant i couldn't access the material on my xbox, i decided to just go back to this one. If that is quite okay with you.

And that post is a quote, and it is sourced. Taken in context, you'll find that it's quite inoccent.

Look, I don't want to derail this thread any further than it already is, but your blog is really bizarre. If you're a troll, it's not funny, and if you're for real, then it's just frightening.

Either way, your condescending tone isn't going to win any hearts and minds. If you really think we're 'pond life', why are you bothering to argue with us?

[Shared]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Izithel wrote...

blacqout wrote...

If you couldn't follow the narrative closely enough, or give the major themes due contemplation, then maybe you should just call it a day and leave.

The ending made sense. I get that you dislike it, but whining like a child is just rather sad. Good day.

The ending made sense? I'm sorry but in what kind of bizzaro universe do you live?


What kind of insane breed of logic is needed to make sense out of this ending?

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I knew threads like these would start popping up, I have been saying it since they announced the pax thing...

I
kept saying "guys, they said they will be trying to explain the endings
a little more, they never said they were going to change them", but
most people just ignored that, and read what they want to read.

The fact they want to clarify the ending in itself is bad, if an ending needs more story to be understandable it's not an ending.

Well clarify can mean add scenes too, you know? Parts that are currently missing to make more sense of it?

Also do not forget BW will NEVER give you the endings, becaue they want you to speculate.. so they wil never say "Yes IT is true, or IT is not true" they will jsut give you more clues to work with, this is how they said they wanted you to feel from the start, that is not goign to change now.

I am not trying to defend BW here, but peopel jsut have it in for them, even if they came and said "We will give you free money", peopel here would still moan and whine about them.

Actually what Biwoare said from the start regarding ME 3 was: "we will bring you closure". Closure is the opposite of speculation.

[blah64]

blacqout wrote...

If you couldn't follow the narrative closely enough, or give the major themes due contemplation, then maybe you should just call it a day and leave.

The ending made sense. I get that you dislike it, but whining like a child is just rather sad. Good day.

And just which part(s) actually made sense or were true to the themes of mass effect, or delivered upon what was promised? 

[Woodstock-TC]

"I will wait until PAX. If it does not work out the way I, and many others hope, I will replace this message with the original content that was here. Then you can ban me, and I can move on."

agreed & +1

im really tierd coming disgrunted to the forums to give feedback such as after the DA2, ME2 Arrival DLC and ME3 now, hoping smn is listening.. and no, since MMO times (Ultima Online, hi Designer Dragon, Lord British (funyn to meet him RL talking about Biz 14 years later btw.. how the times change.., Runesabre, GM SOL) i didnt used to do that.

Bioware customer since the Voxel engine and remembering how the graduated medical doctors Ray Muzyka, Greg Zeschuk´s company got its name

And yes, while my house is full of ART and i originate from an artists family, i dont invest myself emotionaly and time wise to play out on the Arty outcome of a writer if choice matters. My 0.02$. gona avoid arty games and go good ol´Videogamey w/o BW r EA, you know.

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 03 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[krogstor]

Esquin wrote...

krogstor wrote...

Ehh, you guys all have fun with this, I'm ME3'd out until after PAX. Gonna go play some tomb raider or something. Peace.

Bioware! You drove a man from Mass Effect to Tomb Raider. Do you see what you've done! DO YOU SEE!

In all fairness, Natla is a pretty awesome enemy.  At least you get to fight her at the end, not like Harbinger.

[blacqout]

MikeRoz wrote...

blacqout wrote...

MikeRoz wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I think he was talking about me.

If it does, i haven't broken them. I served my two day ban.

But this is not the same account you used then. Why are you not using that one? Was it banned?

Also I think this post tells us everything we need to know.

This is the first account i created and is linked to my EA account, which in turn is linked to my xbox live gamertag.

I decided i didn't like the name, so set up one in my real name. After i accidently redeemed some codes onto that account, which meant i couldn't access the material on my xbox, i decided to just go back to this one. If that is quite okay with you.

And that post is a quote, and it is sourced. Taken in context, you'll find that it's quite inoccent.

Look, I don't want to derail this thread any further than it already is, but your blog is really bizarre. If you're a troll, it's not funny, and if you're for real, then it's just frightening.

Either way, your condescending tone isn't going to win any hearts and minds. If you really think we're 'pond life', why are you bothering to argue with us?

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but i have dozens of followers that seem to enjoy what i have to say. Not everything is supposed to be funny, but some guy seemed to enjoy this one, stating that he laughed so hard. It's likely that my witticisms are just a little above you. I'm very high brow.

Even Jesus preached to those he knew had sinned.

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

1) I thought DA2 was great too; the story was very well done, even if aspects of gameplay were not. To me, DA1, whilst fun, was highly generic and I felt little investment in any of the characters with the possible exception of Shale. DA2 on the otherhand made me care about just about everyone. The story and themes are superior in every single way to DA1, and people should not let repetitive maps and other such window dressing detract from that. If DA3 is as generic as DA1 I shall be blaming you[all].

2) As a proponent of the Indoctrination Theory, I think the ending of ME3 is genius... provided it's true.

Otherwise, it is full of holes.

In regards to TIM controlling Shepard, his research states that he has more success if the subject is on Red Sand, or sleeping, but Shepard and Anderson are experiencing neither. Nor are they husked. Shepard has spent extended periods of time in contact with Reapers and has not yet been indoctrinated (in the none-doctrination theory), and yet TIM can do it in seconds? With just the techno-organic devices growing out of his face? Seems suspect. (Just addressing the TIM control plot-hole rebuttal.)

[Esquin]

blacqout wrote...

How is that a plot hole? It was a creative choice, and i thought it worked.

My argument is that the ending could be reasonably interpreted so as to make perfect sense and posess precisely no plot holes. All that should be needed to make the ending acceptable to everyone is a little extrapolation... with BioWare outright stating what happened to the stranded fleet and why Joker was seemingly on the run, it will be fine.

It's not a choice. You don't get to choose if you want to give the players an ending or not. You're right though. That would fix a lot of the problems.

Although to raise the teleporting squad make argument again. My whole team was on Earth. I saw them. Spoke to them. No way they left, they all had jobs to do. So back to you.

[Salyut]

MikeRoz wrote...

Look, I don't want to derail this thread any further than it already is, but your blog is really bizarre. If you're a troll, it's not funny, and if you're for real, then it's just frightening.

Either way, your condescending tone isn't going to win any hearts and minds. If you really think we're 'pond life', why are you bothering to argue with us?

Is that really his blog? That's... a very weird blog. A bit disturbing. Kinda funny that someone who has a blog like that goes around acting superior to other people because they are not as wonderful a "genius" as he is.

[blacqout]

Esquin wrote...

blacqout wrote...

How is that a plot hole? It was a creative choice, and i thought it worked.

My argument is that the ending could be reasonably interpreted so as to make perfect sense and posess precisely no plot holes. All that should be needed to make the ending acceptable to everyone is a little extrapolation... with BioWare outright stating what happened to the stranded fleet and why Joker was seemingly on the run, it will be fine.

It's not a choice. You don't get to choose if you want to give the players an ending or not. You're right though. That would fix a lot of the problems.

Although to raise the teleporting squad make argument again. My whole team was on Earth. I saw them. Spoke to them. No way they left, they all had jobs to do. So back to you.

We got an ending. It was just intentionally vague.

What jobs did they have to do? I don't recall any member of the team stating what they were going to be doing in the battle.

I believe there is some cut dialogue that indicates Joker was originally scripted to perform some sort of pick up. For whatever reason that didn't happen, and obviously the final scenes are leftover from that originally plan... but it doesn't break the ending.

[The Night Mammoth]

blacqout wrote...

Esquin wrote...

blacqout wrote...

How is that a plot hole? It was a creative choice, and i thought it worked.

My argument is that the ending could be reasonably interpreted so as to make perfect sense and posess precisely no plot holes. All that should be needed to make the ending acceptable to everyone is a little extrapolation... with BioWare outright stating what happened to the stranded fleet and why Joker was seemingly on the run, it will be fine.

It's not a choice. You don't get to choose if you want to give the players an ending or not. You're right though. That would fix a lot of the problems.

Although to raise the teleporting squad make argument again. My whole team was on Earth. I saw them. Spoke to them. No way they left, they all had jobs to do. So back to you.

We got an ending. It was just intentionally vague.

Which is a bad thing when the narritive doesn't support it and the fanbase wants the exact oppoosite.

I believe there is some cut dialogue that indicates Joker was originally scripted to perform some sort of pick up. For whatever reason that didn't happen, and obviously the final scenes are leftover from that originally plan... but it doesn't break the ending.

That alone doesn't. 

The dozens of other flaws do, and I'm not talking about plot holes. 

[Militarized]

For being so high brow he doesn't seem to get a simple idea like narrative coherence and the use of a proper story arc.

Might wanna lower your ego a bit.

[blacqout]

Militarized wrote...

For being so high brow he doesn't seem to get a simple idea like narrative coherence and the use of a proper story arc.

Might wanna lower your ego a bit.

Did you learn all about that in Writing 101?

Your dependence on such basic concepts is almost endearing... but if you broadened your literary scope, you'd come to understand that it's perfectly possible to break the rules and still weave an interesting tale with a satisfying conclusion.

That said, the narrative was coherant all the way through the trilogy. I find it funny that some fans are now having to come to terms with the fact that they've been misinterpreting things all along.

[crimzontearz]

my italian teacher (wait..for you guys would be english teacher...you know what I mean) told me "if you hand me a paper and have to explain that to me you have already failed it"

[blacqout]

crimzontearz wrote...

my italian teacher (wait..for you guys would be english teacher...you know what I mean) told me "if you hand me a paper and have to explain that to me you have already failed it"

BioWare do seem to have overestimated their core audience.

[The Night Mammoth]

blacqout wrote...

Militarized wrote...

For being so high brow he doesn't seem to get a simple idea like narrative coherence and the use of a proper story arc.

Might wanna lower your ego a bit.

Did you learn all about that in Writing 101?

Your dependence on such basic concepts is almost endearing... but if you broadened your literary scope, you'd come to understand that it's perfectly possible to break the rules and still weave an interesting tale with a satisfying conclusion.

BioWare utterly failed in that regard. 

That said, the narrative was coherant all the way through the trilogy. I find it funny that some fans are now having to come to terms with the fact that they've been misinterpreting things all along.

Mainly the people who like the ending, obviously. 

[Mcfly616]

Blacquot

I'm an English major....degree and all.....don't go acting like it was a cohesive story all the way through the trilogy....killing off characters with no explanation is LAZY WRITING and shows a lack of creativity by the Writer(Bioware went a step further and killed Everyone).....any Professor will tell you that....that is English 101 so stfu and stop acting like you know what you're talking about

[Jeb231]

Or maybe they are just the Ronald Moore of video gaming.

You know, writing random things as they go, trying to fix issues when they get feedback and ending up writing themselves into an even bigger corner. That would definitely explain the introduction of a ghost, god-like child entity 10 minutes before the end of a Scifi trilogy.

[Mcfly616]

Oh and for the last time....its not about happy endings and plotholes....its about our Choices not having any affect on the outcome.....Casey himself said the ending is NOT "A,B or even C".....


That explains why everybody does not like the ending....


We got endings A,B and C, which all equal 1 ending....mass extinction, any way you want to slice it

Modifié par Mcfly616, 03 avril 2012 - 02:40 .

[D.I.Y_Death]

crimzontearz wrote...

my italian teacher (wait..for you guys would be english teacher...you know what I mean) told me "if you hand me a paper and have to explain that to me you have already failed it"

Very wise man, I'd love to have a chat with him.

[Ender99]

I'm sticking it out until PAX. If it doesn't change, then my money and I are gone from Bioware. For good.

[Nicky 192]

Only a few days and then we will know the outcome for sure.We're all just speculating until then so the best thing we can do is to not jump to conclusions. Still, having said that, i understand your frustration Op and after Pax, i for one will know if its worth buying any Dlc or indeed if it's worth investing in any Bioware games ever again.

[Wraith8957]

blacqout wrote...

If you couldn't follow the narrative closely enough, or give the major themes due contemplation, then maybe you should just call it a day and leave.

The ending made sense. I get that you dislike it, but whining like a child is just rather sad. Good day.

*Cough Cough* Pretentious *Cough Cough*

Seriously calling people whiners when they are reasonable upset about being mislead and wasting time and money on a bad product.  Yes were all whiners.  

*Waves the sarcasm sign*