251 réponses à ce sujet

[Exeider]

Zolt51 wrote...

SentientSurfer wrote...

How do your FTL times jive with relativity? It takes 30yrs to the people on the ships, but won't that be 100s of years to people stranded on their homeworlds? O_o

From the Codex relativity simply doesn't apply here, or not much. Mass effect fields lowers the mass of everything by a factor of X, and conversely increases C lcoally by a factor of SQRT(X). That means that within the mass effect field, they are still traveling slower than light so relativity does not necessarily have a huge effect.

But I beg you, let's not take this further. Relativity is difficult enough as it is, if we try to apply it to an entirely fictional, FTL travel context, I'm afraid the whole thing will blow up in our faces.

even more to the point, the ship is actually not moving in the traditional sense. the Mass Effect Field lowers the mass of a VOLUME OF SPACE. The ship itself doesnt actually move, the volume of space moves, and the ship inside it moves with it.

-Æ

[Tritium315]

All that math is pointless based on the fact that every ship is scrap (look at the Normandy).

[shepskisaac]

Zolt51 wrote...

Well, there is just the minor problem that quantum entanglement can't in fact be used to transmit information. But I'm willing to let that slide.

But you can verbally pass the info It ain't that big of a problem comapred to having no communications at all.

Which made me realize. Anderson/Hackett were communicating with the Normandy via QEC. So, urhm, why wouldn't EDI just contact the Alliance like, 5 minutes after crashing on whatever planet they're on?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 03 avril 2012 - 05:14 .

[The Angry One]

Tritium315 wrote...

All that math is pointless based on the fact that every ship is scrap (look at the Normandy).

Implications disturbing.

[Orthodox Infidel]

CELL55 wrote...

Uh, space is mostly empty. That's why it's called space. The planets, suns and gas giants that you seem to think are so ever-present in the galaxy really only take up an incredibly small amount of the galaxy's total area. You can't just go jumping around in space and keep expecting to find the VAST resources such a venture would require.

There are 64 stars within 15 light years of our sun. Since 12 LY/day is a "common" speed, the empty space doesn't matter because it can be crossed very quickly.

[The Angry One]

IsaacShep wrote...
But you can verbally pass the info It ain't that big of a problem comapred to having no communications at all.

Which made me realize. Anderson/Hackett were communicating with the Normandy via QEC. So, urhm, why wouldn't EDI just contact the Alliance like, 5 minutes after crashing on whatever planet they're on?

Earth to Thessia: "Yo dawg I heard you like mass relays, so you need to build mass relays for our mass relays so we can FTL while we FTL."

Thessia to Earth: "Hi, we're busy MAKING SURE OUR PEOPLE DON'T STARVE TO DEATH IN THE ASHES, KKTY."

Earth to Thessia: "Asari, y u so realistic?"

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2012 - 05:16 .

[Zolt51]

The Angry One wrote...
Asking the devastated worlds of the galaxy to build mass relays is like asking the people of Stalingrad to build a high speed train network directly after world war 2. With no external help.

Rebuilding the relays is not a priority in the short term, say the first decade or two PSE (Post Shepard Era) will be spent rebuilding the worlds. In fact, colonizing new ones might be more economical.

[Kanon777]

The Angry One wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

One thing is clear. There will be a "Dark Age" for the galaxy, because the destruction of relays will obviously make troubles. However, the in-game lore leaves tons of possible solutions.

Quantum Entanglement technology which does not rely on the relays already exists and is being used. Therefore, at least communication won't be a problem. And with communication, you can pass information and coordinate rebuilt efforts. Aethyta implies that Asari already know how to build the relays.

Asking the devastated worlds of the galaxy to build mass relays is like asking the people of Stalingrad to build a high speed train network directly after world war 2. With no external help.

No one said it should be easy, only that it can be done...

[Exeider]

ErikModi wrote...

Problem is, getting everyone home is a moot point, because everyone's dead. The Mass Relays exploding pulverizes the star system it's located it. Journal > Codex (Secondary) > The Reaper War > Desperate Measures. The game tells you that destroying Mass Relays ruins any terrestrial world in the solar system. They throw you some bone by saying "if" a planet survives, but it hardly seems likely.

Basically, every ending currently has you nuking a considerable percentage of the galaxy into wasteland. Including Earth, whether you saved it from the actual Reapers or not, gets blasted by the exploding Relay, sterilizing it and killing pretty much every important character in the entire series.

OI, i've argued this one to death. The relays exploding doesnt destroy a starsystem, its the relay's CORE that blows up a star system. But in the end the relay core had been burned up and was actually not present when the relay itself blows up.

Relay Death in Arrival

Relay Death in ME3

TL;DR: The two relay explosions are different explosions because different things are exploding, Core in Arrival VS Coreless Relay in ME3.

[The Angry One]

Zolt51 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Asking the devastated worlds of the galaxy to build mass relays is like asking the people of Stalingrad to build a high speed train network directly after world war 2. With no external help.

Rebuilding the relays is not a priority in the short term, say the first decade or two PSE (Post Shepard Era) will be spent rebuilding the worlds. In fact, colonizing new ones might be more economical.

Rebuilding? Good luck doing that with no resources.
Colonies?Assuming the local clusters have suitable worlds. Ever notice that most of Earth's colony worlds are in another quadrant of the galaxy? Yeah, oops.

[The Angry One]

tobito113 wrote...

No one said it should be easy, only that it can be done...

10,000 years later, an ignorant old man and his grandson who views the stars with superstitious awe disagree with you.

[Kanon777]

The Angry One wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Asking the devastated worlds of the galaxy to build mass relays is like asking the people of Stalingrad to build a high speed train network directly after world war 2. With no external help.

Rebuilding the relays is not a priority in the short term, say the first decade or two PSE (Post Shepard Era) will be spent rebuilding the worlds. In fact, colonizing new ones might be more economical.

Rebuilding? Good luck doing that with no resources.
Colonies?Assuming the local clusters have suitable worlds. Ever notice that most of Earth's colony worlds are in another quadrant of the galaxy? Yeah, oops.

The proteans made the conduit with far less then what the current species have now...

[Exeider]

Zolt51 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

One thing is clear. There will be a "Dark Age" for the galaxy, because the destruction of relays will obviously make troubles. However, the in-game lore leaves tons of possible solutions.

Quantum Entanglement technology which does not rely on the relays already exists and is being used. Therefore, at least communication won't be a problem. And with communication, you can pass information and coordinate rebuilt efforts. Aethyta implies that Asari already know how to build the relays.

Well, there is just the minor problem that quantum entanglement can't in fact be used to transmit information. But I'm willing to let that slide.

Een more to the point the QEC network was destroyed when the reapers blew up Arcturus Station, which is where the alliance was HQing all the QEC pairs, don't believe me, goto the Arcturus System, and see the station...whats left of it at least.

-Æ

[Orthodox Infidel]

Tritium315 wrote...

All that math is pointless based on the fact that every ship is scrap (look at the Normandy).

Normandy crashed, and it appears to be mostly in one piece. Joker was able to limp as normal afterwards. Also, they were at FTL and fell out, while other ships weren't. Therefore, any ships in a system could be salvageable.

(Note: The Normandy scene makes no sense at all regardless of whatever else happens: everyone should have been killed instasntly by radiation from falling out of FTL. Don't think about it too hard.)

[The Angry One]

tobito113 wrote...

The proteans made the conduit with far less then what the current species have now...

The Protheans had: A dedicated underground research and development base intended to last out the Reapers.

Earth has: A pile of rubble.

[Kanon777]

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

No one said it should be easy, only that it can be done...

10,000 years later, an ignorant old man and his grandson who views the stars with superstitious awe disagree with you.

He was talking to a kid do you think hes gonna talk about astrophysics like that? There is nothing about what he said that gives the impression that hes an "ignorant". Or that they never managed to go to other planets

[The Angry One]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

All that math is pointless based on the fact that every ship is scrap (look at the Normandy).

Normandy crashed, and it appears to be mostly in one piece. Joker was able to limp as normal afterwards. Also, they were at FTL and fell out, while other ships weren't. Therefore, any ships in a system could be salvageable.

(Note: The Normandy scene makes no sense at all regardless of whatever else happens: everyone should have been killed instasntly by radiation from falling out of FTL. Don't think about it too hard.)

The point they're making is that the Normandy is no longer flyable.
The scene is idiotic and makes no sense, that is a given. But it does show the writer's intentions.

[Uratxekatlitza]

To me, what stands out about OP's calculations is that it would take years to travel any serious distance. This means that even if the logistics for such a trip could be worked out, it would still mean the end of galactic civilization as we know it. While travel within clusters and systems would still be practical, people wouldn't be casually traveling the galaxy as we did with the mass relays. If any sort of unified civilization persisted, it would be more like the civilization from Ursula K. Le Guin's Hainish Cycle.

This is important to me because I had been fighting to preserve the galaxy that I had come to care about over the course of three games. That galaxy is now gone. Everything I was fighting to save was lost in the end. The fact that it might be possible to traverse the galaxy over the course of years or decades does not help that; in fact, it cements it.

[The Angry One]

tobito113 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

No one said it should be easy, only that it can be done...

10,000 years later, an ignorant old man and his grandson who views the stars with superstitious awe disagree with you.

He was talking to a kid do you think hes gonna talk about astrophysics like that? There is nothing about what he said that gives the impression that hes an "ignorant". Or that they never managed to go to other planets

He talks about ifs and maybes.
Why does he say "maybe, someday".
If this were an intergalactic society, he'd say "If you're good maybe we'll visit Thessia during the summer break." or something like that.

[SentientSurfer]

Even more to the point, the ship is actually not moving in the traditional sense. the Mass Effect Field lowers the mass of a VOLUME OF SPACE. The ship itself doesnt actually move, the volume of space moves, and the ship inside it moves with it.

-Æ

The ship is moving along with that volume of space - I don't know why the rules of realitively wouldn't apply.

The relays propelled ships at FTL speeds for a few seconds so prehaps time dialation doesn't factor in as much, but running a FTL drive for years would have to have some kind of effect. 

Modifié par SentientSurfer, 03 avril 2012 - 05:23 .

[Ultra Prism]

The writers really screwed with us in ending ... see the amount of speculations that has reached --- this is nuts beyond anything

[The Angry One]

Ultra Prism wrote...

The writers really screwed with us in ending ... see the amount of speculations that has reached --- this is nuts beyond anything

LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!! :wizard::wizard:

[a.m.p]

The Angry One wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

One thing is clear. There will be a "Dark Age" for the galaxy, because the destruction of relays will obviously make troubles. However, the in-game lore leaves tons of possible solutions.

Quantum Entanglement technology which does not rely on the relays already exists and is being used. Therefore, at least communication won't be a problem. And with communication, you can pass information and coordinate rebuilt efforts. Aethyta implies that Asari already know how to build the relays.

Asking the devastated worlds of the galaxy to build mass relays is like asking the people of Stalingrad to build a high speed train network directly after world war 2. With no external help.

Well, to be fair the people of Stalingrad did built a hell of a lot directly after WW2.
I actually expected that the epilogue would be that - rebuilding the civilization.
Their "bittersweet" ending might actually be closer to bittersweet if it the solutions proposed in this thread or something similar was established to be possible before the whole relay network was blown up.
As the endings stand now - blowing them up for the sake of blowing them up - that's just petty.

[Tritium315]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

All that math is pointless based on the fact that every ship is scrap (look at the Normandy).

Normandy crashed, and it appears to be mostly in one piece. Joker was able to limp as normal afterwards. Also, they were at FTL and fell out, while other ships weren't. Therefore, any ships in a system could be salvageable.

(Note: The Normandy scene makes no sense at all regardless of whatever else happens: everyone should have been killed instasntly by radiation from falling out of FTL. Don't think about it too hard.)

This whole thread is about using math to justify that the ending isn't awful and you're saying we shouldn't "think too hard" about a scene that negates it all? Additionally I've got a news flash for you, the entire ending makes no sense at all.

[a.m.p]

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

No one said it should be easy, only that it can be done...

10,000 years later, an ignorant old man and his grandson who views the stars with superstitious awe disagree with you.

He was talking to a kid do you think hes gonna talk about astrophysics like that? There is nothing about what he said that gives the impression that hes an "ignorant". Or that they never managed to go to other planets

He talks about ifs and maybes.
Why does he say "maybe, someday".
If this were an intergalactic society, he'd say "If you're good maybe we'll visit Thessia during the summer break." or something like that.

And we're back to stargazer.  Am I the only one who thinks it's the worst part of the ending?