251 réponses à ce sujet

[Beliyaal]

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

The proteans made the conduit with far less then what the current species have now...

The Protheans had: A dedicated underground research and development base intended to last out the Reapers.

Earth has: A pile of rubble.

Also, this maybe isn't the thread for it, but the conduit always bothered me. How the hell did the Ilos team get the other relay onto the citadel?

[Tleining]

tobito113 wrote...

The proteans made the conduit with far less then what the current species have now...

actually, they had to make it when the Relay Network was still under their Control. How else could they get the Relay Monument to the Citadel? (so before the Reaper invasion)

[The Angry One]

a.m.p wrote...

Well, to be fair the people of Stalingrad did built a hell of a lot directly after WW2.

Do you think they did so without external supplies?
I'm talking about putting a wall all around Stalingrad, nothing can go in or out. Now ask them to built a rapid transit network using only what they have.
I'm not diminishing their achievement, just saying that realistically, everybody needs help. You can't rebuild in a vacuum.

I actually expected that the epilogue would be that - rebuilding the civilization.
Their "bittersweet" ending might actually be closer to bittersweet if it the solutions proposed in this thread or something similar was established to be possible before the whole relay network was blown up.

That's what I thought too. There was enough death and destruction in the whole game.
People say there must be a price for defeating the Reapers.

What? Whole worlds burning, billions of deaths, whole socities going extinct, suffering on a galactic scale wasn't enough?

As the endings stand now - blowing them up for the sake of blowing them up - that's just petty.

Hence my stomping on sandcastles remark. It's that level of pettiness, it's destroying the universe because you can.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2012 - 05:29 .

[SmokePants]

The only distance that matters is the distance from Earth to Pluto. It takes a beam of light between 4 and 7 hours to travel between the final Citadel location and the Mass Relay, which is plenty of time to assess the situation, fire up some FTL drives, and outrace the burst to the relay with time to spare.

It's also worth noting that in the Control ending, the Citadel doesn't even fire a burst. The chain reaction is triggered by the slowly expanding energy field reaching the relay. If the speed of expansion shown was constant, then it would have taken days or weeks.

The ending was clearly not being shown in real time.

[zarnk567]

a.m.p wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

No one said it should be easy, only that it can be done...

10,000 years later, an ignorant old man and his grandson who views the stars with superstitious awe disagree with you.

He was talking to a kid do you think hes gonna talk about astrophysics like that? There is nothing about what he said that gives the impression that hes an "ignorant". Or that they never managed to go to other planets

He talks about ifs and maybes.
Why does he say "maybe, someday".
If this were an intergalactic society, he'd say "If you're good maybe we'll visit Thessia during the summer break." or something like that.

And we're back to stargazer.  Am I the only one who thinks it's the worst part of the ending?

That stargazer part of the game is like kicking someone in the nuts when they are already down and out.

[a.m.p]

Tritium315 wrote...

This whole thread is about using math to justify that the ending isn't awful and you're saying we shouldn't "think too hard" about a scene that negates it all? Additionally I've got a news flash for you, the entire ending makes no sense at all.

No. The whole thread is about using math to find ways to fix (even if it'll stay headcanon) some of the worst parts of the absolutely awful ending.

[The Angry One]

SmokePants wrote...
It's also worth noting that in the Control ending, the Citadel doesn't even fire a burst. The chain reaction is triggered by the slowly expanding energy field reaching the relay. If the speed of expansion shown was constant, then it would have taken days or weeks.

The ending was clearly not being shown in real time.

No, the ending was not being shown with any sort of sense.
Joker placing himself in the path of the pulse by using the relays makes even less sense, and the fact that control does not require the Crucible beam only raises the question of why the other two endings do.

[SentientSurfer]

SmokePants wrote...

The only distance that matters is the distance from Earth to Pluto. It takes a beam of light between 4 and 7 hours to travel between the final Citadel location and the Mass Relay, which is plenty of time to assess the situation, fire up some FTL drives, and outrace the burst to the relay with time to spare.

How would the fleets know that the relays are about to go bye-bye?

[The Angry One]

zarnk567 wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

No one said it should be easy, only that it can be done...

10,000 years later, an ignorant old man and his grandson who views the stars with superstitious awe disagree with you.

He was talking to a kid do you think hes gonna talk about astrophysics like that? There is nothing about what he said that gives the impression that hes an "ignorant". Or that they never managed to go to other planets

He talks about ifs and maybes.
Why does he say "maybe, someday".
If this were an intergalactic society, he'd say "If you're good maybe we'll visit Thessia during the summer break." or something like that.

And we're back to stargazer.  Am I the only one who thinks it's the worst part of the ending?

That stargazer part of the game is like kicking someone in the nuts when they are already down and out.

Stargazer demonstrates that Mac Walters either doesn't know or doesn't care why fans played Mass Effect.
Neither we or our Shepards wanted to be "legends" vaguely remembered in a distant future (well maybe a few people did but I can say most of us didn't).
We wanted to save the galaxy and our friends, not sit there and go "oh, some humans survived. Yay."

[Zolt51]

a.m.p wrote...

And we're back to stargazer.  Am I the only one who thinks it's the worst part of the ending?

You start spilling dirt on Buzz Aldrin, you and I are going to have words.

[The Angry One]

SentientSurfer wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

The only distance that matters is the distance from Earth to Pluto. It takes a beam of light between 4 and 7 hours to travel between the final Citadel location and the Mass Relay, which is plenty of time to assess the situation, fire up some FTL drives, and outrace the burst to the relay with time to spare.

How would the fleets know that the relays are about to go bye-bye?

Space magic.

[Tleining]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

There are 64 stars within 15 light years of our sun. Since 12 LY/day is a "common" speed, the empty space doesn't matter because it can be crossed very quickly.

right, and seeing how that apparently isn't done regularly could point out that the Drive Charge goes critical after at least one day of Travel (After 12LY you need to discharge the DriveCore or you'll die).

Exeider wrote...

Een more to the point the QEC network was destroyed when the reapers blew up Arcturus Station, which is where the alliance was HQing all the QEC pairs, don't believe me, goto the Arcturus System, and see the station...whats left of it at least.

-Æ

We were communicating with Anderson and Hackett after the Station got destroyed (Station was destroyed at the beginning of the game). I think it was stated ingame that those communications were done via QE-Devices. So Normandy, Hackett and Anderson had at least two each.

[The Angry One]

Zolt51 wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

And we're back to stargazer.  Am I the only one who thinks it's the worst part of the ending?

You start spilling dirt on Buzz Aldrin, you and I are going to have words.

Buzz Aldrin is a big damn hero.
Stargazer is a horrible, misguided and worthless addition.

[shepskisaac]

The Angry One wrote...

Earth to Thessia: "Yo dawg I heard you like mass relays, so you need to build mass relays for our mass relays so we can FTL while we FTL."

Thessia to Earth: "Hi, we're busy MAKING SURE OUR PEOPLE DON'T STARVE TO DEATH IN THE ASHES, KKTY."

Earth to Thessia: "Asari, y u so realistic?"

what does it have to do with anything I said about Normandy having QEC?

Exeider wrote...

Een more to the point the QEC network was destroyed when the reapers blew up Arcturus Station, which is where the alliance was HQing all the QEC pairs, don't believe me, goto the Arcturus System, and see the station...whats left of it at least.

-Æ

But if that was the case Shep wouldn't be able to speak with anyone throughout the game lol

Modifié par IsaacShep, 03 avril 2012 - 05:35 .

[SNascimento]

Wow, superb job man!
.
And this pretty much proves that this "everyone will die" hysteria is unfounded. I actually think the galaxy will be a better place for the races to develop.

[Wulfram]

The Angry One wrote...

Earth has: A pile of rubble.

And some dead reapers, potentially the Citadel and the expertise gained from building the Crucible.

[The Angry One]

IsaacShep wrote...

what does it have to do with anything I said about Normandy having QEC?

The point was information exchange alone won't get you anywhere.

But if that was the case Shep wouldn't be able to speak with anyone throughout the game lol

The Normandy was intended as Anderson's command post, it probably had a few QEC pairs installed.
That doesn't mean the system is exclusively used for QEC (or do the Quarians have QEC now?)

[Lozark]

Warp92 wrote...

Really?

What are these?

Those are beds.  Not cryo-whatevers.  Sleep pods.  The crew use them for, wait for it, sleeping.

[The Angry One]

Wulfram wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Earth has: A pile of rubble.

And some dead reapers, potentially the Citadel and the expertise gained from building the Crucible.

- Dead Reapers are either fried to the point of uselessness, or... indoctrination for everybody! \\o/

- Yes, the Citadel. Making the Control ending (i.e. TIM's plan, THE BAD GUY) the only workable one. What.

- The Crucible team is stranded elsewhere, last I checked.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Tritium315 wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

All that math is pointless based on the fact that every ship is scrap (look at the Normandy).

Normandy crashed, and it appears to be mostly in one piece. Joker was able to limp as normal afterwards. Also, they were at FTL and fell out, while other ships weren't. Therefore, any ships in a system could be salvageable.

(Note: The Normandy scene makes no sense at all regardless of whatever else happens: everyone should have been killed instasntly by radiation from falling out of FTL. Don't think about it too hard.)

This whole thread is about using math to justify that the ending isn't awful and you're saying we shouldn't "think too hard" about a scene that negates it all? Additionally I've got a news flash for you, the entire ending makes no sense at all.

If the entire ending makes no sense at all, then it's inappropriate to draw any conclusions.

[Zolt51]

Lozark wrote...

Warp92 wrote...

Really?

What are these?

Those are beds.  Not cryo-whatevers.  Sleep pods.  The crew use them for, wait for it, sleeping.

Nope they also got beds. These are emergency cryo pods in case the ship gets stranded or has to make long journeys. IIRC it's in the ME1 codex.

[a.m.p]

The Angry One wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

what does it have to do with anything I said about Normandy having QEC?

The point was information exchange alone won't get you anywhere.

But if that was the case Shep wouldn't be able to speak with anyone throughout the game lol

The Normandy was intended as Anderson's command post, it probably had a few QEC pairs installed.
That doesn't mean the system is exclusively used for QEC (or do the Quarians have QEC now?)

Actually that's a good question. Do the quarians have QEC? Considering the reapers are going where they please and cutting off all communications you'd think Hackett and Co would bother making sure stable communication can be maintained with all main allied forces.
I know, I know, headcanon.

[Zolt51]

The Angry One wrote...
Buzz Aldrin is a big damn hero.
Stargazer is a horrible, misguided and worthless addition.

Nope. Billions of people slaughtered by the reapers on Earth, that is horrible. The Normandy ending up in the middle of nowhere for no good reason, that is worthless. The stargazer scene in comparison.. that's just meh. You either like it or you don't but it's not something to get upset about.

Edit: Sorry forgot who I was talking to. You're the Angry One after all. Get upset if you want. Are you sure you don't want a cookie?

Modifié par Zolt51, 03 avril 2012 - 05:47 .

[Ieldra]

Dear Bioware, you don't have to completely obliterate galactic
civilization to the point of turning Shepard into a myth. Just saying.

QFT * 1000000

Nice calculations you've made. You might be interested in my aftermath scenario. Basically, it says that there are so many star systems with planets in the galaxy and so many gas giants that refueling and drive discharge shouldn't be much of a problem. The worst thing that can happen is that helium-3 extraction technology isn't advanced enough and extraction takes a long time, but given it's been the main commercial starship fuel for who knows how low, I find that unlikely. Also long trips don't necessarily use up more fuel than short ones, because of Newton's first law.

Edit:
Noticed the discussion about QE devices. I'd say quite a few ships have them. There will be no instant loss of communication between the main worlds. It will gradually be lost over time because the QE devices can't be refueled (for refueling, transport of matter between the two stations is necessary)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[a.m.p]

Zolt51 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Buzz Aldrin is a big damn hero.
Stargazer is a horrible, misguided and worthless addition.

Nope. The Normandy ending up in the middle of nowhere for no good reason, that is horrible. The stargazer scene in comparison.. that's just meh. You either like it or you don't but it's not something to get upset about.

Edit: Sorry forgot who I was talking to. You're the Angry One after all. Get upset if you want. Are you sure you don't want a cookie?

My issue with the stargazer scene is that it implies that long after the events of the game (historical facts being reduced to legends long) there is still no advanced galactic civilization.
Which negates everything people have come up in this thread, by the way.