265 réponses à ce sujet

[Vormaerin]

abaris wrote...



ME2 Arrival states that as fact.

That's one of the gaping plot holes of the endings.

It stated that rupturing the Relay would cause that effect.  It seems pretty clear to me that is not what happens in the ending.  All that energy is fired in a giant beam at the next relay rather than released randomly in to star system.

Maybe the last relay just explodes in a nova or maybe it fires its energy through the Omega 4 relay into a black hole.

Just because something explodes in a certain way in one set of circumstances does not mean it explodes in the same way in a different set.

Modifié par Vormaerin, 03 avril 2012 - 08:52 .

[Getorex]

Vormaerin wrote...

abaris wrote...



ME2 Arrival states that as fact.

That's one of the gaping plot holes of the endings.

It stated that rupturing the Relay would cause that effect.  It seems pretty clear to me that is not what happens in the ending.  All that energy is fired in a giant beam at the next relay rather than released randomly in to star system.

Maybe the last relay just explodes in a nova or maybe it fires its energy through the Omega 4 relay into a black hole.

Just because something explodes in a certain way in one set of circumstances does not mean it explodes in the same way in a different set.

Make up whatever kind of sh*t you want.  It is, by definition, HAND WAVING.  

[abaris]

Getorex wrote...

Plot hole.  Simple as that.  The Normandy has FTL capability.  There's no way Joker is running away at sub-light speed.  NEW plot hole!  No explosion blast can get anywhere NEAR the speed of light, let alone exceed it.

Anyway...an explosion that will blow the Normandy apart at EXTREME distance (FTL speed for virtually any length of time = extreme distance) will blow the crap out anything, including people, on the surface of the earth.  Ipso facto.

There are just SO many things wrong with ALL the explosion scenarios presented.  They cannot be reconciled with reason or rationality.

Starting out with the plot hole of Joker legging it in the first place.

All right, as opposed to previous games, he looked like a lunatic or high on something in this one. But there's still the fact of the whole crew being with him and with the ME fileds colapsing the results being catastrophic the crew surviving any of this, and with ....

OK, I give up, there's just too many holes to fill.

[FlashedMyDrive]

daftPirate wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

_symphony wrote...

Getorex wrote...
No matter what type of explosion it is (blue, green, or red) it blows the Normandy to sh*t.  It is clearly a destructive blast wave.  If it blows the Normandy then it WILL pulverize human and alien bodies.  Period.  

you didn't read it seems, that might be the case, but then why it leaves Earth unscratched?

The normandy crashed because it was in the middle of an FTL jump and it has been stated in the codex if the mass effect fields surrounding a ship were to suddenly collapse during FTL travel, the results would be "catastrophic".

Mass Relays create almost massless tunnels of  powerful mass effect fields. When the relays were destroyed, the field collapsed. See above .

Wow, that's incredibly good to know. Wish that kind of thing would get around faster, thanks for posting. One mystery solved...in part.

"If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light
speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to
sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal
Cherenkov radiation."

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#FTL_Drive

There ya go. Even has audio.

However, this creates a new problem. Why didn't the Normandy just blow up in a massive explosion of energy? There is no way that they should have survived.

Modifié par FlashedMyDrive, 03 avril 2012 - 08:58 .

[Getorex]

abaris wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Plot hole.  Simple as that.  The Normandy has FTL capability.  There's no way Joker is running away at sub-light speed.  NEW plot hole!  No explosion blast can get anywhere NEAR the speed of light, let alone exceed it.

Anyway...an explosion that will blow the Normandy apart at EXTREME distance (FTL speed for virtually any length of time = extreme distance) will blow the crap out anything, including people, on the surface of the earth.  Ipso facto.

There are just SO many things wrong with ALL the explosion scenarios presented.  They cannot be reconciled with reason or rationality.

Starting out with the plot hole of Joker legging it in the first place.

All right, as opposed to previous games, he looked like a lunatic or high on something in this one. But there's still the fact of the whole crew being with him and with the ME fileds colapsing the results being catastrophic the crew surviving any of this, and with ....

OK, I give up, there's just too many holes to fill.

Yup.  And as per my upthread post: why does synthesis in any way, shape, or form, mean death?  A mere DNA sample is all that is needed.  Period.  Not and entire body's worth of DNA.  Even if an entire body of DNA (this starbrat is even worse with dealing with DNA than 1980s scientists on earth!) is required...there's freshly dead bodies littering the battlefield.  PICK ONE!  

[daftPirate]

Getorex wrote...

Plot hole.  Simple as that.  The Normandy has FTL capability.  There's no way Joker is running away at sub-light speed.  NEW plot hole!  No explosion blast can get anywhere NEAR the speed of light, let alone exceed it.

Anyway...an explosion that will blow the Normandy apart at EXTREME distance (FTL speed for virtually any length of time = extreme distance) will blow the crap out anything, including people, on the surface of the earth.  Ipso facto.

There are just SO many things wrong with ALL the explosion scenarios presented.  They cannot be reconciled with reason or rationality.

Except now we know the Normandy was not destroyed by the explosion, but wrecked because of the collapse of the ME fields surrounding it during FTL flight. Another conclusion would be that the blasts are not necessarily explosions at all, and may not be constrained by the same physics. Or they're just that fast because of a plot hole. We do already have plenty of those.

[abaris]

Getorex wrote...

Even if an entire body of DNA (this starbrat is even worse with dealing with DNA than 1980s scientists on earth!) is required...there's freshly dead bodies littering the battlefield.  PICK ONE!  

Yup, I would surely go with my Shep throwing some wayward body into the field. Maybe aiming at starbrat to get a welcome side effect.

[daftPirate]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

"If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light
speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to
sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal
Cherenkov radiation."

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#FTL_Drive

There ya go. Even has audio.

However, this creates a new problem. Why didn't the Normandy just blow up in a massive explosion of energy? There is no way that they should have survived.

Wow again. Now THAT is some broken lore. The more I see this stuff, the more I believe that thing about Hudson and that other guy barricading themselves alone in a room to write the ending all by themselves, without taking any advisement. Which is mindblowing in and of itself. I say again "Clarification and Closure." I needs some.

[Getorex]

daftPirate wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Plot hole.  Simple as that.  The Normandy has FTL capability.  There's no way Joker is running away at sub-light speed.  NEW plot hole!  No explosion blast can get anywhere NEAR the speed of light, let alone exceed it.

Anyway...an explosion that will blow the Normandy apart at EXTREME distance (FTL speed for virtually any length of time = extreme distance) will blow the crap out anything, including people, on the surface of the earth.  Ipso facto.

There are just SO many things wrong with ALL the explosion scenarios presented.  They cannot be reconciled with reason or rationality.

Except now we know the Normandy was not destroyed by the explosion, but wrecked because of the collapse of the ME fields surrounding it during FTL flight. Another conclusion would be that the blasts are not necessarily explosions at all, and may not be constrained by the same physics. Or they're just that fast because of a plot hole. We do already have plenty of those.

Sure, that ONE tidbit fixes nothing.  You still cannot divide by zero and there are plenty of zeros in the denominators around here.

How does one control ANYTHING while dead?  I challenge anyone here to even control how their body rots when they die.  Try it, or are ya chicken?

[Getorex]

daftPirate wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

"If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light
speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to
sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal
Cherenkov radiation."

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#FTL_Drive

There ya go. Even has audio.

However, this creates a new problem. Why didn't the Normandy just blow up in a massive explosion of energy? There is no way that they should have survived.

Wow again. Now THAT is some broken lore. The more I see this stuff, the more I believe that thing about Hudson and that other guy barricading themselves alone in a room to write the ending all by themselves, without taking any advisement. Which is mindblowing in and of itself. I say again "Clarification and Closure." I needs some.

Ooops!

[Vormaerin]

Getorex wrote...



Make up whatever kind of sh*t you want.  It is, by definition, HAND WAVING.  

The point is that no one knows what happened.  That's rather the problem with the ending, actually.

You are making baseless claims about what happened.  You have no evidence whatsoever.   "That's what happened once somewhere else" is the worst sort of faulty logic.  It is no sort of evidence that that is what will happen somewhere else under different circumstances.

[abaris]

daftPirate wrote...

Wow again. Now THAT is some broken lore. The more I see this stuff, the more I believe that thing about Hudson and that other guy barricading themselves alone in a room to write the ending all by themselves, without taking any advisement. Which is mindblowing in and of itself. I say again "Clarification and Closure." I needs some.

That was actually one of the "fake" twitter posts I never believed to be that fake. It contained too much detail and the official reaction was too swift.

[daftPirate]

Getorex wrote...

Sure, that ONE tidbit fixes nothing.  You still cannot divide by zero and there are plenty of zeros in the denominators around here.

How does one control ANYTHING while dead?  I challenge anyone here to even control how their body rots when they die.  Try it, or are ya chicken?

As far as control is concerned, 'starbrat' doesn't go into detail how it works. Could be Shepard is only given the chance to make one command "leave and don't come back," or that you will die is a reference to his body and not his mind, which could be uploaded to a reaper shell or something. As for Synthesis, 'starbrat' doesn't ask for Shepard's DNA. It says Shepard will bring about a new DNA, but what he gives the Crucible is his 'energy' (in 'starbrat's' own words), whatever that is.

Modifié par daftPirate, 03 avril 2012 - 09:08 .

[abaris]

daftPirate wrote...

How does one control ANYTHING while dead?  I challenge anyone here to even control how their body rots when they die.  Try it, or are ya chicken?

That might even be possible, provided you know about environments and their influence on decomp. Then you'd just have to commit suicide where it's suitable to your project.

[Getorex]

daftPirate wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Sure, that ONE tidbit fixes nothing.  You still cannot divide by zero and there are plenty of zeros in the denominators around here.

How does one control ANYTHING while dead?  I challenge anyone here to even control how their body rots when they die.  Try it, or are ya chicken?

As far as control is concerned, 'starbrat' doesn't go into detail how it works. Could be Shepard is only given the chance to make one command "leave and don't come back," or that you will die is a reference to his body and not his mind, which could be uploaded to a reaper shell or something. As for Synthesis, 'starbrat' doesn't ask for Shepard's DNA. It says Shepard will bring about a new DNA, but what he gives the Crucible is his 'energy' (in 'starbrat's' own words), whatever that is.

HAH!  His "energy".  How very new-agey, spriit-guidey, astral-projectiony.  His "energy" is ATP.  He could hand the kid a big plastic container of ATP easy-weasy-peasy.  "Here ya go kid.  ATP.  My "energy" in a jar!  Have at it.  I've got to go now kid.  Garrus said he'd buy me a drink and I'm parched."

[daftPirate]

abaris wrote...

daftPirate wrote...

How does one control ANYTHING while dead?  I challenge anyone here to even control how their body rots when they die.  Try it, or are ya chicken?

That might even be possible, provided you know about environments and their influence on decomp. Then you'd just have to commit suicide where it's suitable to your project.

Lol, that's Getorex's comment, not mine, but interesting (if distrubing) point.

[DeinonSlayer]

Getorex wrote...

HAH!  His "energy".  How very new-agey, spriit-guidey, astral-projectiony.  His "energy" is ATP.  He could hand the kid a big plastic container of ATP easy-weasy-peasy.  "Here ya go kid.  ATP.  My "energy" in a jar!  Have at it.  I've got to go now kid.  Garrus said he'd buy me a drink and I'm parched."

Sort of like EDI's speculation in ME2 that they were trying to capture the "essence" of humanity in the human-reaper. I was left thinking "Aren't you a computer? Shouldn't you have a more logical explanation for us?"

[suprhomre]

The game is still fun to play, it became better when I saw the indoctrination vid. I agree it doesn't have the same replay value as ME1-2, but it's still playable.

[daftPirate]

TheseAreMyToys wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I hate to break it to everyone, but the game's replayability would be virtually nil even if it had a great ending.

Let me save any would-be replayers some time. Without listing spoilers, I can tell you that all of your decisions in the first two games are largely cosmetic, or the implications of those actions fall outside the scope of the game (like the future of the krogan race). If you got a key player killed in the first two games, somebody else will step up and do the exact same thing that character would have done. If Mordin is dead, it's another salarian scientist. If Wrex is dead, it's his brother Wreav. If Tali is dead, it's Admiral Daro'Xen. If Legion is dead, it's a backup copy of Legion or something. If Miranda is dead, it's her sister clone Oriana. If Jacob is dead, it's a random ex-Cerberus guy. And if you think there's impact to those "save/kill the Council" and "save/kill the rachni queen" decisions, you've got another think coming.

Oh, and in some cases, if a character is dead, they are simply absent, with no impact on the game whatsoever. You think Garrus or Samara have a role to play in larger events? Nope. If they're dead, you simply don't see them. Everything else is 100% the same.

Remember when we were told that our actions had far-reaching consequences? Well, if you're really particular about the character model and voice actor you're seeing in a particular sequence, well, then I guess that promise was fulfilled. But if, like me, you expected actual events to play out differently, in a different sequence, with different options and possibilities, you are better off not bothering with a replay even if the ending didn't bother you.

This quote really says it all.  I couldn't help but to have the "whats the point" attitude.  I took Amazon up on its full refund offer.  I things get better down the road I'd be more than happy to rebuy the game (for a much lower price) and finish what should have been there in the first place.  For me there is ZERO replay point.

This entire situation reminds me Final Fantasy 14 and how heads at Square-Enix said they "...are concerned of the damage done to the Final Fantasy brand..."  At the very least Square-Enix attempted to appease their existing customers who had to suffer through all of FF14's problems.  At least Square-Enix tried to make things right.

Sometimes doing the right thing causes you to lose EA, but at least you will retain the respect of your customer base.

Well at that I'd figure someone would only replay the game if they felt that their choices had any impact in the first playthrough anyway. If they get to the ending, whether they like it or not, they've alreay found out what influence their choices had. I'm sorry Siansonesa, but I can't make sense of what you said. It sounded like having replacements for dead characters was bad, but having nothing at all for dead characters was no good either. What's the middle ground there?

[Vormaerin]

Siansonea II wrote...

I hate to break it to everyone, but the game's replayability would be virtually nil even if it had a great ending.

Let me save any would-be replayers some time. Without listing spoilers, I can tell you that all of your decisions in the first two games are largely cosmetic, or the implications of those actions fall outside the scope of the game (like the future of the krogan race). If you got a key player killed in the first two games, somebody else will step up and do the exact same thing that character would have done. If Mordin is dead, it's another salarian scientist. If Wrex is dead, it's his brother Wreav. If Tali is dead, it's Admiral Daro'Xen. If Legion is dead, it's a backup copy of Legion or something. If Miranda is dead, it's her sister clone Oriana. If Jacob is dead, it's a random ex-Cerberus guy. And if you think there's impact to those "save/kill the Council" and "save/kill the rachni queen" decisions, you've got another think coming.

Oh, and in some cases, if a character is dead, they are simply absent, with no impact on the game whatsoever. You think Garrus or Samara have a role to play in larger events? Nope. If they're dead, you simply don't see them. Everything else is 100% the same.

Remember when we were told that our actions had far-reaching consequences? Well, if you're really particular about the character model and voice actor you're seeing in a particular sequence, well, then I guess that promise was fulfilled. But if, like me, you expected actual events to play out differently, in a different sequence, with different options and possibilities, you are better off not bothering with a replay even if the ending didn't bother you.

This is completely untrue.  The decisions you make in ME1 and ME2 have a substantial impact on what options you have in ME3.  Sure, the quests play similarly.  Did you really expect that they would say "Oh, Mordin is dead.  No Genophage cure, no Krogan alliance possible,  so no council aid.   Game over?"

Who of Wrex, Wreave, and Eve are alive affects the future of the Krogan race and that is determined by decisions in ME1 and ME2.

How you resolve Tali and Legion's quests in ME2 determine what solutions you can get in ME3 to the Quarian/Geth situation.

If Thane and Kirrahe are dead in previous games, certain events play out differently in ME3.

If you thought they were going to write completely different stories based on your decisions, you were delusional.  That's just not feasible.

Modifié par Vormaerin, 03 avril 2012 - 09:36 .

[Getorex]

Replayability comes from DLC additions. The key DLC being an addition to, or change to, the ending. Seriously, in ME2 what changed after you played it 2 or 3 times when Kasumi DLC came out? Nothing. You got a cool new mission and character. Same with Zaeed. There were variations on the ending (from bitter all dead, to bittersweet some dead, to sweet all live). Same with ME1. I replayed it half-a-dozen times, perhaps 3 or 4 before Bring Down the Sky, then another 3 or so times. The ending was almost identical in every playthrough. You HAD to survive (or the series ends right then and there).

ME3 can get replay back if the ending is more in tune with ME2's ending, which varied depending on your choices. You know, the way the series and game was advertised! I could replay ME3 as is with a better ending (less bitter, more sweet - or how about this? I LOVE sweet and sour. Let's have a sweet and sour ending!) for a few runs, do some MP to blow some time until a new DLC comes out, play again, wait for a new DLC, etc.

Hell, I've played DE:HR 5 times and am currently on my 6th after a few months off and I know what the endings are. I know precisely what the endings are but I get a kick out of playing Adam Jenson...plus he doesn't friggin' die in all the endings! There's a single DLC too that works. Knowing the ending doesn't mean no replay, clearly, or people wouldn't replay ANY of them. You do because you can try different classes, different decisions, etc, but then you want to get to a DIFFERENT ending depending on your actions (and you do NOT want to see your game LI on some random planet ready to hook up with Joker!). Sheesh. This isn't rocket science.

[Getorex]

Vormaerin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I hate to break it to everyone, but the game's replayability would be virtually nil even if it had a great ending.

Let me save any would-be replayers some time. Without listing spoilers, I can tell you that all of your decisions in the first two games are largely cosmetic, or the implications of those actions fall outside the scope of the game (like the future of the krogan race). If you got a key player killed in the first two games, somebody else will step up and do the exact same thing that character would have done. If Mordin is dead, it's another salarian scientist. If Wrex is dead, it's his brother Wreav. If Tali is dead, it's Admiral Daro'Xen. If Legion is dead, it's a backup copy of Legion or something. If Miranda is dead, it's her sister clone Oriana. If Jacob is dead, it's a random ex-Cerberus guy. And if you think there's impact to those "save/kill the Council" and "save/kill the rachni queen" decisions, you've got another think coming.

Oh, and in some cases, if a character is dead, they are simply absent, with no impact on the game whatsoever. You think Garrus or Samara have a role to play in larger events? Nope. If they're dead, you simply don't see them. Everything else is 100% the same.

Remember when we were told that our actions had far-reaching consequences? Well, if you're really particular about the character model and voice actor you're seeing in a particular sequence, well, then I guess that promise was fulfilled. But if, like me, you expected actual events to play out differently, in a different sequence, with different options and possibilities, you are better off not bothering with a replay even if the ending didn't bother you.

This is completely untrue.  The decisions you make in ME1 and ME2 have a substantial impact on what options you have in ME3.  Sure, the quests play similarly.  Did you really expect that they would say "Oh, Mordin is dead.  No Genophage cure, no Krogan alliance possible,  so no council aid.   Game over?"

Who of Wrex, Wreave, and Eve are alive affects the future of the Krogan race and that is determined by decisions in ME1 and ME2.

How you resolve Tali and Legion's quests in ME2 determine what solutions you can get in ME3 to the Quarian/Geth situation.

If Thane and Kirrahe are dead in previous games, certain events play out differently in ME3.

If you thought they were going to write completely different stories based on your decisions, you were delusional.  That's just not feasible.

It IS feasible.  The Tali-Legion/Geth-Quarian thing gets totally wiped to a waste of time in Red ending.  Green ending AND Blue ending defy EVERYTHING that you, as Shepard, have struggled and fought for since ME1.  Total bullcrap.  The RED ending is the hardest one to obtain.  The BEST Red ending is THE hardest to obtain, thus it is the Bioware-determined best/happiest ending.  IT ISN'T BEST!  It is built upon genocide in complete contradiction of the Quarian-Geth resolution!  It murders EDI for no valid/good reason!  

The ending didn't have to diverge all over bum-f*cked Egypt to fit within the NORM for the series.  It doesn't have to diverge tremendously for it to match what they repeatedly promised.  All they needed to do was mirror in broad strokes the ending of ME2.  Simple as that.  A few cut scenes beyond that simply depicting life post whatever your ending was (based on your choices) would have been all that was needed after that.  Simple.  Painless.  Satisfactory.

[Spectre_Shepard]

yeah, it pretty much did. amazing, really.