183 réponses à ce sujet

[Denora]

Feel free to give up on Bioware, but for me
So far for Bioware:
Amazingly Epic Content > mistakes(such as endings, bugs, and bad marketing/PR)
So until that statement is false, I'll keep believing in them.

[1490]

I mean seriously guys, for some of you: how little patience do you have that you can't wait THREE DAYS for Bioware to make an announcement before you declare your dismal prediction about it to be probable fact? Take a chill pill and do something else with your life in the very short amount of time before PAX comes: you can get pissed all you want afterward if the announcement displeases you.

Modifié par 1490, 03 avril 2012 - 07:15 .

[vlherg]

I'm not giving up now, I'll wait and hear what comes out of PAX. If it's new endings, I will forgive a mistake and continue to give my custom to Bioware in future.

If it's confirmed that all we're getting is clarification then I am done with Bioware. My consumer integrity simply wouldn't allow me to give them any more money in future.

[Zenoctilles]

Look, I haven't been on these forums much. I've been focused on some other things for the time being. I just came back to post this.

[Tony208]

Warp92 wrote...

 I've got a plan in motion

1.Pax goes bad

2. Stop buying their games. Simple as that. It's not worth my time or effort to do anything more.

3. Walk away.. forever. I know how to hold a grudge.

4. Give up on Bioware and set myself up for Diablo 3... 

Looks just like my plan.

Modifié par Tony208, 03 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[Inxentas]

Your plan is almost identical to mine Tony208. If that PAX business is just talk I'm just gonna accept Mass Effect choked on corporate filth before it could die of old age, and that will be the end of it. Dragon Age 3 is gonna be worth the 10 bucks I'll be spending on it in 2021. I have all the time in the world.

[vlherg]

hagren wrote...

You don't take into account that, in contrast to a journey- where the travel, regardless how enjoyable, is only a means to an end, a destination- a game's main goal (at least for me) isn't to reach and experience the end; its goal is to entertain and/or hook for the ride itself, whether because the gameplay is enjoyable, the controls are tight, the presentation is marvelous, the atmosphere is great or the setting unique.
Actually, games have so many aspects going for them in comparison to, say, a movie, that certain shortcomings can easily be eased by having strenghts in different departments. ME3 has plenty.

It's quite interesting to note, by the way, how similar the ME3 ending fiasco to Mafia II is- just as with ME3, there were certain promises (Side missions similar to GTA!) that, be it for financial, publishing or temporal reasons were not held; there was cut content from the game that was later sold as DLC; and most tellingly, it had a very sudden, anticlimactic ending that was so depressing that, just like with ME3, people were asking for a changed and/or clarified ending that made the finale mor palatable- but it never came, partially for artistic reasons- for them, it was intended to be that way.
And guess what? I still played through that game 4 or 5 times because the GFX were so marvelous, the atmosphere so unique, the controls so precise and the concept so engaging.

Tl, dr: Games are at least as much about experiencing the journey as to reach and experience the ending, and they have so many different layers to them that some smaller or bigger issues should not necessarily tarnish the whole package/experience. Whether or not the ending is that disastrous is subjective anyway.

Saying that the end nullified your efforts in he game is like saying that living is pointless because both you, your friends and family and Earth will die one day.

A large part of the problem is that for many people the greatest part of Bioware games is the story and often, our chance to shape that story. I actually felt that gameplay worsened from ME to ME2 but it was the story and the characters that kept me enthralled. I cared about the characters, I wanted to see how my choices played out in the universe. I had plans for different types of characters to play through multiple times to see different outcomes.

I didn't expect my Shepard to die but I did expect it to be a possibility that depended on my actions. I even planned to do a run through of all 3 games making the worst possible choices every time just to see what happens. Now I already know, I end up in a room choosing which colour suicide I want to use to destroy galactic civilisation before discovering that my team ran out on me. Just the same as it does in the best outcome.

Have you ever read a book or watched a TV series and recommended it a friend saying "It starts out a bit weak but it gets much better so stick with it" How many people recommend stories by saying "It starts brilliantly but the ending is garbage so stick with it" We don't do the second because in a story it's not just about the journey, the ending is the most important part. So the 100+ hours of Mass Effect can be completely ruined by 15 minutes because for us fans of story it was the most important 15 minutes.

Some of us want to see Shepard the epic heroine survive her battle and reunite with her love interest. Some want to see a funeral for the heroine who gave her life to save the galaxy, some want to see the reapers win, most of us want a range of outcomes between the extremes. But we got none of this, our story didn't finish it just stopped. We knew this was the end of Shepard's story but two of the most important aspects of that story that we expected from Bioware were both missing - choices and closure. 

[Joe1962]

Tony208 wrote...

Warp92 wrote...

 I've got a plan in motion

1.Pax goes bad

2. Stop buying their games. Simple as that. It's not worth my time or effort to do anything more.

3. Walk away.. forever. I know how to hold a grudge.

4. Give up on Bioware and set myself up for Diablo 3... 

Looks just like my plan.

Mine, as well.

Except for number 4. I'll be setting myself up for RE 6.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Red Dust wrote...

If Bioware fails at PAX, "holding the line" takes on new meaning. They'd have called our bluff. They'd have taken the chance that we are, as they suspected, a minority.

Holding the line will mean that we make good on our threats. We turn our back not only on "bioware" but on the company it represents. We stop purchasing EA products in their many forms: Games, DLC, Novels. Anything. We encourage others to do the same. Bioware may be lost, but we can stop the practices that lead to their downfall. We can save future gaming companies from going down the path that Bioware did.

This, pretty much. Either BioWare actually takes some damn responsibility and cuts the double-speak and passive-aggressive attacks on the fanbase, or I walk away forever. Not just from BioWare--EA, too.

[Seival]

Let's wait till April's PAX and listen what BioWare will say to us. For now the is no reason for panic.

Modifié par Seival, 03 avril 2012 - 09:11 .

[Carlthestrange]

If we don't get any good news from Pax, then yes, i'm gone. Otherwise, i'm going to give them a chance to redeem themselves. For ME and ME2, they deserve this chance.

[lillitheris]

Heh. You've held out for 5 weeks, and now you can't make it another 5 days to see what they say at PAX?

[hagren]

vlherg wrote...

hagren wrote...

You don't take into account that, in contrast to a journey- where the travel, regardless how enjoyable, is only a means to an end, a destination- a game's main goal (at least for me) isn't to reach and experience the end; its goal is to entertain and/or hook for the ride itself, whether because the gameplay is enjoyable, the controls are tight, the presentation is marvelous, the atmosphere is great or the setting unique.
Actually, games have so many aspects going for them in comparison to, say, a movie, that certain shortcomings can easily be eased by having strenghts in different departments. ME3 has plenty.

It's quite interesting to note, by the way, how similar the ME3 ending fiasco to Mafia II is- just as with ME3, there were certain promises (Side missions similar to GTA!) that, be it for financial, publishing or temporal reasons were not held; there was cut content from the game that was later sold as DLC; and most tellingly, it had a very sudden, anticlimactic ending that was so depressing that, just like with ME3, people were asking for a changed and/or clarified ending that made the finale mor palatable- but it never came, partially for artistic reasons- for them, it was intended to be that way.
And guess what? I still played through that game 4 or 5 times because the GFX were so marvelous, the atmosphere so unique, the controls so precise and the concept so engaging.

Tl, dr: Games are at least as much about experiencing the journey as to reach and experience the ending, and they have so many different layers to them that some smaller or bigger issues should not necessarily tarnish the whole package/experience. Whether or not the ending is that disastrous is subjective anyway.

Saying that the end nullified your efforts in he game is like saying that living is pointless because both you, your friends and family and Earth will die one day.

A large part of the problem is that for many people the greatest part of Bioware games is the story and often, our chance to shape that story. I actually felt that gameplay worsened from ME to ME2 but it was the story and the characters that kept me enthralled. I cared about the characters, I wanted to see how my choices played out in the universe. I had plans for different types of characters to play through multiple times to see different outcomes.

I didn't expect my Shepard to die but I did expect it to be a possibility that depended on my actions. I even planned to do a run through of all 3 games making the worst possible choices every time just to see what happens. Now I already know, I end up in a room choosing which colour suicide I want to use to destroy galactic civilisation before discovering that my team ran out on me. Just the same as it does in the best outcome.

Have you ever read a book or watched a TV series and recommended it a friend saying "It starts out a bit weak but it gets much better so stick with it" How many people recommend stories by saying "It starts brilliantly but the ending is garbage so stick with it" We don't do the second because in a story it's not just about the journey, the ending is the most important part. So the 100+ hours of Mass Effect can be completely ruined by 15 minutes because for us fans of story it was the most important 15 minutes.

Some of us want to see Shepard the epic heroine survive her battle and reunite with her love interest. Some want to see a funeral for the heroine who gave her life to save the galaxy, some want to see the reapers win, most of us want a range of outcomes between the extremes. But we got none of this, our story didn't finish it just stopped. We knew this was the end of Shepard's story but two of the most important aspects of that story that we expected from Bioware were both missing - choices and closure. 

Imho it already feels quite different depending on how you play (class, Alignment, Gender) and the game(s) do quite a good job of feeding back how you influenced both individuals, races and events. One has to consider though that whilst there are choices, they always were only deviations from the main plot that is pretty much set in stone- not saying that our choices were illusions, just that simply, we didn't always have choices, and outcomes are/were not always in our hands.

Alas, I would do like to see such an ending, just to see you guys happy. But that's quite the undertaking.

[DoctorEss]

Bioware has managed to throw one disappointment after another. It's almost amazing that a company that used to be great could turn into this.

I have zero faith in them, their abilities, the abilities of their writers, or anyone else on their staff.

PAX is meaningless to me. What they say there? Also meaningless. They've gotten the last bit of money from me they're going to get. It would require the digital gaming equivalent of the heavens cracking open, and amazing things pouring forth, for them to get more money from me.

It will not be that. It will be some junk multiplayer DLC announcement, and probably some junk DLC like the Aegis Pack from ME2. Feh.

[frostajulie]

[quote]Warp92 wrote...

 I've got a plan in motion

1.Pax goes bad

2. Stop buying their games. Simple as that. It's not worth my time or effort to do anything more.[/quote]

3. Walk away.. forever. I know how to hold a grudge.

4. Give up on Bioware and set myself up for Diablo 3... 


[/quote]

Good plan think ill join you

Modifié par frostajulie, 03 avril 2012 - 09:26 .

[Carnage752]

Oh grow a pair and get back on the line you spineless women!

You thought this would be easy? You are fooling yourself. This is the time when those who have no respect for Bioware's past accomplishments get weeded out.

I don't care that you quit. Don't be such a p***y that you have to make others quit too just because you feel bad you have no stomach for the long haul.

[Carlthestrange]

Carnage752 wrote...
*Snip*

Yeah, that comment is a little on the flamey side, might want to tone it down.

[Evil Minion]

Zenoctilles wrote...

What makes anyone confident that BioWare will do more than sell an interactive comic book that tries to "explain" the crappy the ending we all got? It is quite clear that EA has already made its bank and that no one cares anymore. It's been nearly a month since the game's release. The media doesn't give any airtime to the Retake movement anymore. It's dead, and folks like me have moved on. From Mass Effect. From BioWare in general. 

The upcoming PAX East conference will simply be another bit of PR doublespeak intended to soothe those who aren't intelligent enough to parse through the words. 

There isn't going to be a new ending. Just a "clarified" one. 

Give it up, comrades. It's time to seek something new to obsess over. 

No.

[kidbd15]

I'll see what happens at PAX. If they don't hold up to the promises they set in their ads, then yea, I'm out.

I say goodbye to BioWare, and take my business elsewhere.

And it's not just the endings that has made me feel this way.
Other things include:
1. No Palaven
2. No Harbinger
3. No key story elements from ME2 getting their due (Dark energy)
4. Lack of ME2 squad mates having a major impact (and not selectable)
5. Defending their "artistic integrity" when clearly they had a different vision of the game just one year ago, according to that Game informer magazine article and all the pre-release quotes from them.

These are just a few things, and it all comes down to time and $, but these are IMPORTANT things to include in the end of a trilogy. I would rather that time and $ be spent less on Marketing, more on ME3.

It's sad, at this point, because BioWare was the ONLY company I actually trusted. TRUSTED. But not anymore.

[Reptilian Rob]

Per Aspera Ad Astra.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Per Aspera Ad Astra.

Ex astris, victoria.

Semper vigilans, semper fidelis...serviam

Hold the line!

(Edit: Translation - "From the stars, victory. Always vigilant, always faithful...I will serve.")

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 03 avril 2012 - 09:47 .

[Carnage752]

Carlthestrange wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
*Snip*

Yeah, that comment is a little on the flamey side, might want to tone it down.

It's meant to be Carl. I will be civil over many things. Dragging down the whole movement is not one of them.

[PsychoticFox]

I plan to sit here blissfully not giving a damn until the bitter end.

BioWare, despite the flaws in its games, remains one of the few companies that makes games I actually enjoy gameplay-wise (and story-wise, but there are a lot of games I like the sound of, but the gameplay isn't to my liking). As long as they keep making games I can actually get past the first hour of, I will stay.

[StrawberryRainPop]

Zenoctilles wrote...

What makes anyone confident that BioWare will do more than sell an interactive comic book that tries to "explain" the crappy the ending we all got? It is quite clear that EA has already made its bank and that no one cares anymore. It's been nearly a month since the game's release. The media doesn't give any airtime to the Retake movement anymore. It's dead, and folks like me have moved on. From Mass Effect. From BioWare in general. 

The upcoming PAX East conference will simply be another bit of PR doublespeak intended to soothe those who aren't intelligent enough to parse through the words. 

There isn't going to be a new ending. Just a "clarified" one. 

Give it up, comrades. It's time to seek something new to obsess over. 

I smell a lockdown coming