68 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatDamnSalarian]

Does anyone else think that the Adept's powers in SP have too much overlap? All you really need is Warp and Throw. Stasis is a nice bonus power that any class can get. Cluster Grenades are good. But everything else feels slightly redundant. Which is why I think going Sentinel is a better bet if you want biosplosions. 

Anyone else feel this way, or am I doing it wrong? Thanks!

Modifié par ThatDamnSalarian, 03 avril 2012 - 04:02 .

[termokanden]

In SP you have the overlap for variety I guess. In MP nobody has a big overlap. I think it makes sense.

But I will agree that there is a bigger overlap there than you have with engineer playstyles for examples where you can go for drones/turrets or power spamming (or perhaps some type of unholy mix).

Modifié par termokanden, 03 avril 2012 - 04:01 .

[Kamikaze Gopher]

There is quite a bit of overlap. Both the Adepts CC abilities basically fill the same niche. Shockwave/Throw also feel very redundant. Although, I do feel Adepts are better bioslplosion machines just for the added Double Pull/Double Throw they can do. Other than that, I wish they developed biotics that were a little more creative.

[TevinterMagister]

I agree with you, it's like ME1 where some classes were made redundant or diminshed their value due to overlapping powers, e.g. Infiltrator w/AI hack bonus made Engineer redundant, Vanguard w/singularity was better than Adept unless you wanted Bastion Stasis. ME2 did this better with more defined niches for each class which couldn't be nullified by bonus powers.

[Fortack]

You are completely right OP. The ME3 Adept is more or less a gimped Sentinel. I created a topic about this a week ago:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/347/index/10773005

I am currently playing a slightly modified version. I gave my Adept Stasis instead of Singularity and use Barrier bonus power. It's still basically a Sentinel who uses Stasis bonus power, but it's much better than the vanilla Adept. Stasis gives you something you can use against enemies with shields or barriers and it's insta-cast so doesn't miss half the time. Besides, you've got Liara's Singularity on a 2.5 sec cooldown, which is much better than Shep's and makes having your own version of Sing rather pointless.

If I find a way to remove those dumb explosions to get the cool Pull-Throw combo back the way it was and should be I'll be really happy!

[termokanden]

Hah yeah nothing better than watching your enemies float away towards outer space. Gives a whole new meaning to "space trash".

[Praetor Knight]

It's not too much of a problem for me and at least it works well enough, lore-wise.

[ThatDamnSalarian]

Fortack wrote...

You are completely right OP. The ME3 Adept is more or less a gimped Sentinel. I created a topic about this a week ago:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/347/index/10773005

I am currently playing a slightly modified version. I gave my Adept Stasis instead of Singularity and use Barrier bonus power. It's still basically a Sentinel who uses Stasis bonus power, but it's much better than the vanilla Adept. Stasis gives you something you can use against enemies with shields or barriers and it's insta-cast so doesn't miss half the time. Besides, you've got Liara's Singularity on a 2.5 sec cooldown, which is much better than Shep's and makes having your own version of Sing rather pointless.

If I find a way to remove those dumb explosions to get the cool Pull-Throw combo back the way it was and should be I'll be really happy!

Interesting read. Yeah I agree. ME2's biotic powers all felt like they had a purpose. And enemies couldn't dodge them either. Furthermore, you could use the enviroment more to your advantage in ME2. Rocket trooper on a high ledge? Take down protection using guns, then pull him. The air from the filters you recently switched back on will make him fly away.

I guess after I have finished my 2nd Shepard's NG+ run with a Soldier, I'll get my Sentinel save from ME1, finish ME2 with him, and then play ME3 with him. Should be good.

[Wulfram]

Well, on the plus side being able to skip Shockwave and Singularity means you can focus on the powers you really want.

My Adept Shepard was pretty awesome on hardcore, but I've only done the one playthrough so I can't compare it really.

[JaegerBane]

I do agree this has been an ongoing issue since ME2. The basic problem is that Pull/Singularity and Throw/Shockwave are fundamentally similar powers. They do function differently, but add the effects of defences and you end up obscuring those subtle differences to the extent that they might as well be just the same.

Its annoying, really, as the devs clearly aren't struggling to come up with new biotic powers. Why on earth Stasis was not a basic Adept power, I'll never understand.

Still, thats what the save editor is for.

[Kronner]

I have no idea why BioWare did not do this:

Pull and Throw = single target powers (first one set ups the bomb, the other power detonates)
-short cooldown

Warp = weakens the target (weakens armor, slows movement speed)
-medium cooldown

Singularity and Shockwave = AoE (first one set ups the bomb, the other power detonates)
-long cooldown

The way it's now, it does not matter what power you use. IMHO Adept is the worst class in ME3 (in terms of fun and variety; it steamrolls Insanity just like any other class)

[ThatDamnSalarian]

Yeah, I agree with you Kronner. My shep in ME2 was an Adept, and for the sake of continuity, I chose Adept for him in ME3.

A few hours later, bored out of my mind, I decided to restart with an Engineer, which looked more interesting. It was, though was still fairly dull later on.

[Fortack]

Kronner wrote...

I have no idea why BioWare did not do this:

Pull and Throw = single target powers (first one set ups the bomb, the other power detonates)
-short cooldown

Warp = weakens the target (weakens armor, slows movement speed)
-medium cooldown

Singularity and Shockwave = AoE (first one set ups the bomb, the other power detonates)
-long cooldown

The way it's now, it does not matter what power you use. IMHO Adept is the worst class in ME3 (in terms of fun and variety; it steamrolls Insanity just like any other class)

I would add to this that all the Adept's powers also arc towards their target. If one or two were insta-cast there would be some diversity.

[Malanek]

Most of them have a distinct use
Protected enemies - Warp then Throw
Unprotected enemies - Singularity if not already a useful one on the field otherwise Pull
Only floating enemies left - Throw

Not sure about Shockwave, I haven't really used it much, there are only so many powers you can effectively use particularly when you add in squad mates and bonus powers. Using 4 base class powers is probably more than I do on any other class apart from the engineer. Each to their own but I find the Soldier and Infiltrator are the least interesting with much less variety in powers used.

Modifié par Malanek999, 03 avril 2012 - 08:54 .

[Atrumitos]

Yeah. Just finished my adept playthrough. Pull -> Throw and Warp -> Throw is all you really need most cases, unless someone's behind cover in such a way that singularity exposes them better.

It gives you options though. That's good in my book.

Every class has similar issues if you look at it tbh. Soldier has a ton of ammos that overlap. Engineer has powers similar to the Adept but you hardly need to use everything. So on and so forth.

Only game I could imagine using all those powers would be DragonAge Origins (Before the easy mode patches). It was the strategies involved that made you use the said powers. In ME you don't need anything of the sort so you might as well pick 4 of the most effective powers and spam them.

[nicethugbert]

Vanguard is where the action is at.

[termokanden]

Atrumitos wrote...
Engineer has powers similar to the Adept but you hardly need to use everything. So on and so forth.
.

Yeah you can make do with pretty much anything.

But the difference here is that engineers actually offer some really different playstyles. How about a weapon focused build that uses turrets and drones to distract so you don't get killed? Combo spammer? Multiple ways of doing this. The powers don't seem to overlap quite so much here.

I'm not saying it's anything revolutionary though. I just think it's a more interesting class. I will admit that it takes very little actual skill to play one well, but that's a completely different story.

[Jestina]

A lot of the classes in ME3 just feel too same. If they were going more towards the ME1 skill system, they should have brought back weapons and armor skills, in addition to some non-combat skills which are completely missing now.

[Malanek]

Jestina wrote...

A lot of the classes in ME3 just feel too same. If they were going more towards the ME1 skill system, they should have brought back weapons and armor skills, in addition to some non-combat skills which are completely missing now.

I think the ME1 class system is a pretty bad example to use for this. The classes became much more distinct in ME2 thanks to each class getting it's own special power as well as bonus powers coming from squadmates rather than other classes. In ME1 every class was pretty much the same except for the engineer which didn't have barrier or immunity. In ME3 they allowed every class to use every weapon which I guess does make them less distinct from ME2. 

[Atrumitos]

termokanden wrote...

Yeah you can make do with pretty much anything.

But the difference here is that engineers actually offer some really different playstyles. How about a weapon focused build that uses turrets and drones to distract so you don't get killed? Combo spammer? Multiple ways of doing this. The powers don't seem to overlap quite so much here.

I'm not saying it's anything revolutionary though. I just think it's a more interesting class. I will admit that it takes very little actual skill to play one well, but that's a completely different story.

Hmmm well as an adept you could go offensive with a shotgun shockave, throw/pull and nades or ranged explosions with warp throw and pull and a rifle/pistol.
The engineer is more defined in his paths though, you are right.

[Fortack]

Malanek999 wrote...

I think the ME1 class system is a pretty bad example to use for this. The classes became much more distinct in ME2 thanks to each class getting it's own special power as well as bonus powers coming from squadmates rather than other classes. In ME1 every class was pretty much the same except for the engineer which didn't have barrier or immunity. In ME3 they allowed every class to use every weapon which I guess does make them less distinct from ME2.

Yeah. The problem with the ME3 Adept is the complete lack of something special. The "unique" power - Singularity - is available to everyone through Liara and her version is much better too (insta-cast = instant CC > and it cannot be dodged). Plus, with the proper evolutions, she can cast it every 2.5 seconds. There is no point to invest points into that power when you play Adept, and it also makes having Pull rather pointless (you can detonate enemies every 2.5 seconds with Liara around anyway - can't get much better than that).

Shockwave is a poor version of Throw which leaves Warp and Bionades. Add to this that every biotic powercombo has the same result and you end up with a very one dimensional gameplay. A huge step backward from ME2 where the Adept did have an unique playstyle. They are very powerful though, but who isn't

[Jestina]

Malanek999 wrote...
I think the ME1 class system is a pretty bad example to use for this. The classes became much more distinct in ME2 thanks to each class getting it's own special power as well as bonus powers coming from squadmates rather than other classes. In ME1 every class was pretty much the same except for the engineer which didn't have barrier or immunity. In ME3 they allowed every class to use every weapon which I guess does make them less distinct from ME2.

Definitely not. I could def. tell the difference between soldiers, engineer, and infiltrators in ME1. Now there's very little difference and class system has become highly watered down.

[BertramX]

Warp should have been essential for bombs but would like to have seen it used for either setting up or detonating. Give it a nice long cooldown. Singularity should be wider and multi opponents, pull rapid cool down and combo with rapid throw for amusing results.

[Jestina]

I'm not even sure what the purpose of warp is in ME3 other than setting off biotic boom. Seems like they added the main function of warp(ripping away barriers) to overload for some idiotic reason.

[Priisus]

Fortack wrote...

You are completely right OP. The ME3 Adept is more or less a gimped Sentinel. I created a topic about this a week ago:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/347/index/10773005

In total agreement... I just feel that the Sentinel can do everything the Adept can do plus more... Disappointed with Adept that I changed my ME2 Adept to Infiltrator