315 réponses à ce sujet

[tjc2]

Mass Effect 3 is software designed to be sold/liscenced to generate revenue.

Is Windows Art, is OSX Art, is Adobe or Microsoft Office Art?

If any of the above products were (yes I know some of them are) massively flawed would it be the right, artistic choice, if Microsoft/Apple/Adobe ignored customer feedback?

Modifié par tjc2, 03 avril 2012 - 05:47 .

[Tietj]

I don't necessarily disagree with your topic but I do with your logic. Mass Effect is more artistic than Windows or PhotoShop.

[wantedman dan]

Thanks, OP. Mass Effect 3 and its prequels are commodities with artistic components.

[Hudathan]

The story is art, which is the topic of discussion.

[Avissel]

Art can be a product.
A product can be art.

[raizathestorm]

I think it's pretty difficult to do a one to one comparison of a narrative with a utility program like Word.

Now, I know I like to go to this game a little too often, but I swear I could write college-level papers on story interpretations of Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne. Just because video games are pieces of media meant to generate profits, doesn't mean that they don't have something to say. I mean... any given piece of music, any given book, or any given movie is created in order to generate revenue, at least in part. However, they all speak to people in ways that are completely independent from their entertainment value. Video games are the same way, and indeed, due to the level of player interaction and investment in what's happening, I would argue that they have the capability to be more powerful in this way than the three previously mentioned forms of media.

[veramis]

Art is something with aesthetic value or requiring skill. I see little of either in ME3.

[tjc2]

Hudathan wrote...

The story is art, which is the topic of discussion.

No it is not art, it is a story. The way the media and devlopers have designed art would be to say that Art is about sending a message. Bioware is not sending a message with this game they are selling a product.

If Bioware wants to start making games that are free, then their argument holds water.

[wantedman dan]

Hudathan wrote...

The story is art, which is the topic of discussion.

The initial workings of the game is art--i.e. the script, finished characters, etc. However, it loses its artful status when it is disseminated in mass form to the consumer to be purchased and sold.

[NormanRawn]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Games are not just software. They are an expression of the developers creative skill and imagination,

You can't type some code and POOF, invent the ME galaxy and the look of the characters and places associated with it.

The development of this game involved a large array of people with many different skills. With artist like Animators, Concept Artist, Writers, Digital Artist, and much more

Artist were involved in creating the aesthetic of the ME universe. And the universe would essentially be basic software without artistic expression and imagination of the BioWare team.

[wantedman dan]

Avissel wrote...

Art can be a product.
A product can be art.

Not if its sole purpose of existence is to be a commodity.

[Ziggeh]

tjc2 wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

The story is art, which is the topic of discussion.

No it is not art, it is a story. The way the media and devlopers have designed art would be to say that Art is about sending a message. Bioware is not sending a message with this game they are selling a product.

If Bioware wants to start making games that are free, then their argument holds water.

They charged an entrance fee to see Shakespeares plays. They were stories too.

[Ziggeh]

wantedman dan wrote...

The initial workings of the game is art--i.e. the script, finished characters, etc. However, it loses its artful status when it is disseminated in mass form to the consumer to be purchased and sold.

Films and music are not art forms?

[wantedman dan]

NormanRawn wrote...

I couldn't disagree with you more. Games are not just software. They are an expression of the developers creative skill and imagination,

You can't type some code and POOF, invent the ME galaxy and the look of the characters and places associated with it.

The development of this game involved a large array of people with many different skills. With artist like Animators, Concept Artist, Writers, Digital Artist, and much more

Artist were involved in creating the aesthetic of the ME universe. And the universe would essentially be basic software without artistic expression and imagination of the BioWare team.

That's fine, but your thesis in no way states that the final form is not a commodity.

[Stygian1]

The story lines of both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 are art.

The majority of Mass Effect 3 is art.

The ending of Mass Effect 3 is not art, the ending of Mass Effect 3 is sh--.

[wantedman dan]

Ziggeh wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

The initial workings of the game is art--i.e. the script, finished characters, etc. However, it loses its artful status when it is disseminated in mass form to the consumer to be purchased and sold.

Films and music are not art forms?

It depends on the example, if you bothered to read my post.

[Ziggeh]

Stygian1 wrote...
The ending of Mass Effect 3 is not art, the ending of Mass Effect 3 is sh--.

Art can be ****, indeed, most of it is.

[Blarty]

It's a Creative Work,with all that that implies, irrespective of whether you deem it Art or not.

[NormanRawn]

veramis wrote...

Art is something with aesthetic value or requiring skill. I see little of either in ME3.

You didn't see aesthetic value in ME? What were you looking at when you were coversing with Garrus, or Wrex? Or seeing Reapers destroy Earth? These are artistic visions and imagination come to life in the video game format.

I challenge you to build this game without skill or artistc expression and imagination.

[Ziggeh]

wantedman dan wrote...

It depends on the example, if you bothered to read my post.

So the substance of art is diminished by replication in your view? If lots of people have access to it, it ceases to be art?

[tjc2]

Ziggeh wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

The initial workings of the game is art--i.e. the script, finished characters, etc. However, it loses its artful status when it is disseminated in mass form to the consumer to be purchased and sold.

Films and music are not art forms?

Yes and No. I beat this example like a dead horse, but here it goes. The Dark Knight Rises is created to sell everything about it like Mass Effect 3. There are comics, there are video games and toys and everything you can think of to sell for both products.

Then there is The Artist it won all of the academy awards, but it did not make very much money and it did not cost very much to make. The people who made the artist honestly did not care if it sold. It was Art.

*The way I am defining art is consistent with the definition used by critics and devlopers in this issue. I can use a crayon and a piece of paper and draw a line and call it art.

[Avissel]

wantedman dan wrote...
Not if its sole purpose of existence is to be a commodity.

Which is why I made use of the word "can".

[AlexXIV]

The complaints are about the story/plot. That part is actually art. But that doesn't mean it cannot be changed. They didn't make the game to make a statement. They made it for us to play, enjoy, and most importantly pay.

If they regard it their art that cannot be changed just because the players didn't like it, it would automatically mean for the future that Bioware is doing art and not making games for us. And that means if we want games we enjoy we should not buy Bioware 'art'. I can't possibly imagine Bioware or EA want that.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 avril 2012 - 05:56 .

[Saul Iscariot]

Does anyone know how much Michaelangelo was paid to paint that ceiling so Christians could venerate their diety?

[veramis]

NormanRawn wrote...

You didn't see aesthetic value in ME? What were you looking at when you were coversing with Garrus, or Wrex? Or seeing Reapers destroy Earth? These are artistic visions and imagination come to life in the video game format.

I challenge you to build this game without skill or artistc expression and imagination.

I see little artistic value in ME3. ME1 and ME2 had good writing, the first having a great main story and the second a lot of character development. ME3 has my shepard telling a student at grissom academy to play dead and he goes on his knees. This is not artistic, this is autistic.