309 réponses à ce sujet

[Blind Rapture]

There is the PROCESS of becoming indoctrinated and then there is BEING indoctrinated.

Kai Leng's actions are actively being influenced by the reapers. Shepard's are not. This is very obvious and debunks the strongest defense against the Indoctrination Theory. Assuming that the VI would be able to detect the slightest hint of the process is as much grasping at straws as even the weakest IT evidence.

Also, saying that the evidence isn't "obvious" enough, is missing the entire point. Bioware wants us to speculate and debate. What's the point in all that if they put irrefutable and easily noticed evidence?

But besides all that. Why do so many WANT to refute the idea of the IT? Why do we have to take everything so seriously and at face value? I, personslly love this sort of thing. It reminds me of Valve's brilliant ARGs and the days before the internet, when video games were often shrouded in mystery with rumors abound. Before you could easily rip into a disc and find out for sure.

I want the Indoctrination Theory to be true. I want this to have been their plan all along and I want them to spend more time that their normal deadline would have allowed to make and even more epic ending. And the waiting just makes it that much bigger of a pay off.

Why do we need everything immediately and up front? Wouldn't you rather have a better experience in the long run? I know I would. 

Modifié par Blind Rapture, 03 avril 2012 - 10:24 .

[Apollo-XL5]

Because the haters dont like the idea that bioware pulled the wool over their eyes and basically indoctrinated the players.

[Saberchic]

The IT theory has holes. It's not perfect. Why favor that over the "it was real" theory?

[rachellouise]

This is the thing people want the IT to be true, so they see 'evidence' of it everywhere. Random things ,which would not normally fit together, become some conspiracy

Modifié par rachellouise, 03 avril 2012 - 10:26 .

[Hexley UK]

I think it has merit and theres some solid basis to it....but I think if it was real then Bioware would have said something by now.

Theres no way they would continue to take the hits they have without letting the cat out of the bag.

Don't get me wrong if i'm mistaken i'll give them kudos for it...but I can't see it.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

It's the classic debate between religieus people, and atheists.

The facts point towards Indoc not being true. It was never Bioware's intention for Shep to be indoctrinated. That is the TRUTH.

However, like religious people, you don't care about the truth. You want the subjective experience, and your subjective experience prefers you to have Indoc. It's not true, but you want it to be.

So, whatever arguments you have in favor if Indoc? On the big heap, because they do not matter.

Indoc still isn't true.

[Nauks]

Saberchic wrote...

The IT theory has holes. It's not perfect. Why favor that over the "it was real" theory?

Because it has less holes than the current real ending?

[Hexley UK]

Nauks wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

The IT theory has holes. It's not perfect. Why favor that over the "it was real" theory?

Because it has less holes than the current real ending?

Lol true dat.

[MaaZeus]

As much as the Indoc theory makes sense, it would also mean that the games ending is incomplete. Reapers are still out there! The game is practically missing the whole ending chapter!

I have hard time believing any game company would be low enough to pull that kind of stunt...

[Chugster]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

The facts point towards Indoc not being true. It was never Bioware's intention for Shep to be indoctrinated. That is the TRUTH.

Indoc still isn't true.

aah the wonderful internet 'opinion mistaken for fact'

You have no proof that IT is false....just as those who believe in IT have no proof...

you sir are an idiot

[pjotroos]

It's a theory being stated as a fact by many of its followers. I'm giving it benefit of the doubt, but it just seems so much more likely that what we got is all there is, considering all the PR backlash and the hit on their sales.

[Alent]

Why so quick to say the events weren't real?

[wtbusername]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

It's the classic debate between religieus people, and atheists.

The facts point towards Indoc not being true. It was never Bioware's intention for Shep to be indoctrinated. That is the TRUTH.

However, like religious people, you don't care about the truth. You want the subjective experience, and your subjective experience prefers you to have Indoc. It's not true, but you want it to be.

So, whatever arguments you have in favor if Indoc? On the big heap, because they do not matter.

Indoc still isn't true.

Never their intention, huh?

Maybe you should look something up called the 'Final Hours' app and stop making baseless assumptions.

[wtbusername]

Alent wrote...

Why so quick to say the events weren't real?

I don't know, it might have something to do with the entire ending sequence after being hit by beam being kind of surreal. (that is a gross understatement)

Might have, just a guess.

[Dranks]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

It's the classic debate between religieus people, and atheists.

The facts point towards Indoc not being true. It was never Bioware's intention for Shep to be indoctrinated. That is the TRUTH.

However, like religious people, you don't care about the truth. You want the subjective experience, and your subjective experience prefers you to have Indoc. It's not true, but you want it to be.

So, whatever arguments you have in favor if Indoc? On the big heap, because they do not matter.

Indoc still isn't true.

And now religion is being brought into it. Oh wonderful. 

[Intomydimension]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

It's the classic debate between religieus people, and atheists.

The facts point towards Indoc not being true. It was never Bioware's intention for Shep to be indoctrinated. That is the TRUTH.

However, like religious people, you don't care about the truth. You want the subjective experience, and your subjective experience prefers you to have Indoc. It's not true, but you want it to be.

So, whatever arguments you have in favor if Indoc? On the big heap, because they do not matter.

Indoc still isn't true.

read the "Final Hours" PLIS....  you are wrong

[Ibecomedeath]

Because until BioWare announce that Indoctrination is what they were trying to achieve with the ending, it's just another conspiracy theory...

[Laurencio]

Because it was most probably made by a fan, making the likelihood of it being true very remote.

[Jim Darksworn]

I tend to shun the theory because its extremely unlikely, I'm also consistantly annoyed with how rabbidly people defend it.

[Blind Rapture]

As someone else said, the IT has less holes than the literal ending. I see nothing wrong with skeptics. It's the people who flat out refute it.

[Saberchic]

Nauks wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

The IT theory has holes. It's not perfect. Why favor that over the "it was real" theory?

Because it has less holes than the current real ending?

Not true.

1) How do the arms get open  if Shep isn't really on the Citadel?

The arms need to be open in order to line up the Crucible. To do that Shep had to get in the Citadel. IT that I've seen all state that indoctrination happens to Shep on Earth (and that's where Shep 'wakes up' if you have a high enough EMS according to these people). They say Shep never left Earth, and it's all in Shep's head. I think Shep is just buried in rubble. 

2) TIM being on the Citadel is part of the indoctrination because why would he even be there?

Again, not true. The prothean VI clearly says that TIM has fled to the Citadel when you go to the Cerberus base. He was there before Shep, not after. Also, Anderson says the walls moved when you are walking to the platform. IT people say there is only one way there (to the platform). The path could have changed to guide Shep to where our favorite starchild wanted Shep to go.

3) The dreams are subtle indoctrination.

This is subjective. When I experienced the dreams the first time, I thought this could be the case. There were whispers and shades in Shep's mind. However, they could just as easily be the things which haunt Shepard during sleep.

4) The lovely infinite ammo pistol.

Yeah, it also appears along with a 'slowed reality' (just like the end where you run to the beam) when you take out Dr. Eva Core on Mars. I chalk this up to 'artistic license.'  Not a fan of it, but I'm sure there are plenty on reasons why they felt the need to do this (storywise and logistics).

These are just some of the points IT puts forth, and it doesn't work better than the "it was real" argument. yes, there are significant questions that need to be answered either way, but "it was real" makles more sense than IT.

[RainyDayLover]

Because that would mean Bioware shipped out an incomplete game and the game has no ending.

[Tom Lehrer]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

It's the classic debate between religieus people, and atheists.

The facts point towards Indoc not being true. It was never Bioware's intention for Shep to be indoctrinated. That is the TRUTH.

However, like religious people, you don't care about the truth. You want the subjective experience, and your subjective experience prefers you to have Indoc. It's not true, but you want it to be.

So, whatever arguments you have in favor if Indoc? On the big heap, because they do not matter.

Indoc still isn't true.

There is a very big difference between religious faith and a bad theory so learn what you are talking about before you say it.

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

Why so quick to de-merit Indoctrination Theory?

because:

1) Bioware has never been that clever in their story telling; its always been straight forward character based story telling with very little interpretation.

2) its caused them even more hassle and brand damage than any “clever” ending is worth.

3) all of their replies and responses since everything blew up has been counter to if the indoctrination theory is true. Their behaviour would have been different and less “damaging”. The artistic integrity card for example; which is used incorrectly and ignorantly by Bioware.

4) It would mean Bioware sold an incomplete game; even if the ending DLC was free there would be a huge proportion of people who could never experience the actual ending. So it doesnt make sense to do a trick ending to be resolved by DLC later.


However the final nail in the coffin of indoctrination theory will be PAX. The only way I believe it's true is if they show polished footage of the final ending clearly demonstrating in was indoctrination. That way we know they planned it all along as they wouldn't have had time to produce the content that quickly after the fact.  and by polished I mean actual in game cut-scenes with the original voice actors throughout...


This is why I don't believe indoctrination theory; I think indoctrination theorist just got lucky with how bioware chose to represent certain moments and choices of dialogue which allowed us to connect so many points... Sometimes chaos can have misleading patterns of logic which actually mean nothing..

Modifié par RiGoRmOrTiS_UK, 03 avril 2012 - 10:55 .

[Chuvvy]

Because whyoware confirmed no new ending over twitter.