309 réponses à ce sujet

[ticklefist]

@topic
Because it relies on developer mistakes and oversights for evidence. Gives them undue credit as clever omissions, exceptions, or additions.

[Tiax Rules All]

Saberchic wrote...

Oh noes! Burned shrubs! IT must be true then! <_<

Just because I don't agree with IT doesn't mean you have to be rude to me.

uh, my point was shrubs ARE pretty far fetched. but it does help IT.

and i really all that rude to you. at least not rude relative to the usual internet attitudes anyways.

forget the schrub topic all together. There are 99 more piecies of evidence out there.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 04 avril 2012 - 01:21 .

[xsdob]

Because "it was all a dream" tends to be pretty insulting to the audience, even more so than just a bad ending to a great series.

It's like if lord of the rings ended with frodo waking up in the bed, but when he wakes up instead of it having been at the end of return of the king, it's at the elf city in the first movie when he first wakes up.

There are no hints big enough to indicate that shepard was dreaming, dragonage origins did something similar but it was at least obvious enough to enjoy without being a goddamn trap.

[tjc2]

The indoc theory is like religon, you want to believe because it makes it easier to sleep at night knowing you might not wake up.

[Tiax Rules All]

xsdob wrote...

Because "it was all a dream" tends to be pretty insulting to the audience, even more so than just a bad ending to a great series.

It's like if lord of the rings ended with frodo waking up in the bed, but when he wakes up instead of it having been at the end of return of the king, it's at the elf city in the first movie when he first wakes up.

There are no hints big enough to indicate that shepard was dreaming, dragonage origins did something similar but it was at least obvious enough to enjoy without being a goddamn trap.

its not a dream. Its a battle over indoctrination in Sheps mind.
saying "it was all a dream" shows you are not giving it its proper respect.

as I said before, there is a big difference between "it was all a dream" and "It was a battle over shep's mind"
If you don't see this then you are too stuborn to see this.

[Tiax Rules All]

tjc2 wrote...

The indoc theory is like religon, you want to believe because it makes it easier to sleep at night knowing you might not wake up.

does it make YOU feel better to both knock IT and religion in one dumb statement?

I'd rather have hope then be eternally pessimistic and troll like.

So you don't like IT, then enjoy your space magic, becuase that is what you will get then.

[Ariella]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Because "it was all a dream" tends to be pretty insulting to the audience, even more so than just a bad ending to a great series.

It's like if lord of the rings ended with frodo waking up in the bed, but when he wakes up instead of it having been at the end of return of the king, it's at the elf city in the first movie when he first wakes up.

There are no hints big enough to indicate that shepard was dreaming, dragonage origins did something similar but it was at least obvious enough to enjoy without being a goddamn trap.

its not a dream. Its a battle over indoctrination in Sheps mind.
saying "it was all a dream" shows you are not giving it its proper respect.

as I said before, there is a big difference between "it was all a dream" and "It was a battle over shep's mind"
If you don't see this then you are too stuborn to see this.

That makes no sense in the context of the end game.

The dreams were manifestations of Shepard's psyche trying to deal with what s/he saw on Earth.

Occum's razor. Simplest answer is often the correct one. The first dream takes place the first time Shepard has a chance to stop moving and actually sleep. His/her subconcious is trying to deal with the fact he/she couldn't save that child. It wasn't some faceless red shirt #5. He/she probably had seen the kid out the window of his.her confinement multiple times beyond the beginning of ME 3. He/she spoke to said kid, tried to get him to come out to safety, and then watched him get on a shuttle which proceeds to be shot down by a Reaper.

The voices in the following dreams are those he/she lost: Ash or Kaiden, Mordin, Thane etc. It PTSD more than any attempt at indoctrination. The loss and inability to save everyone is repeated time and time again as a theme in ME 3. Garrus and Shepard talk about it. So does Liara...

[xsdob]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Because "it was all a dream" tends to be pretty insulting to the audience, even more so than just a bad ending to a great series.

It's like if lord of the rings ended with frodo waking up in the bed, but when he wakes up instead of it having been at the end of return of the king, it's at the elf city in the first movie when he first wakes up.

There are no hints big enough to indicate that shepard was dreaming, dragonage origins did something similar but it was at least obvious enough to enjoy without being a goddamn trap.

its not a dream. Its a battle over indoctrination in Sheps mind.
saying "it was all a dream" shows you are not giving it its proper respect.

as I said before, there is a big difference between "it was all a dream" and "It was a battle over shep's mind"
If you don't see this then you are too stuborn to see this.

Than why didn't they implement it like they did in dragonage origins when you get trapped in the fade? That would have made it a whole lot more believable.

[PhotonMaze]

tjc2 wrote...

The indoc theory is like religon, you want to believe because it makes it easier to sleep at night knowing you might not wake up.

**** me, what a stupid ****ing comment. Do I have to spell it out to everyone. I am an anti-theist (I am against religion) The indoctrination theory is nothing like a religion because it's a THEORY. It has evidence and people don't shape their lives around it. I don't go out stoning gay people because I support the IT. IT'S JUST A THEORY (Vlue is in the name). Read my earlier post in reply to another ****ing idiot. (2nd post page 5)

You do know that without theories we wouldn't know about evolution or the laws of physics. What a ridiculus comparison.

Modifié par PhotonMaze, 04 avril 2012 - 01:52 .

[noobcannon]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

It's the classic debate between religieus people, and atheists.

The facts point towards Indoc not being true. It was never Bioware's intention for Shep to be indoctrinated. That is the TRUTH.

However, like religious people, you don't care about the truth. You want the subjective experience, and your subjective experience prefers you to have Indoc. It's not true, but you want it to be.

So, whatever arguments you have in favor if Indoc? On the big heap, because they do not matter.

Indoc still isn't true.

tjc2 wrote...

The indoc theory is like religon, you want to believe because it makes it easier to sleep at night knowing you might not wake up.

 

here ya go.

Modifié par noobcannon, 04 avril 2012 - 01:51 .

[PhotonMaze]

PhotonMaze wrote...

tjc2 wrote...

The indoc theory is like religon, you want to believe because it makes it easier to sleep at night knowing you might not wake up.

**** me, what a stupid ****ing comment. Do I have to spell it out to everyone. I am an anti-theist (I am against religion) The indoctrination theory is nothing like a religion because it's a THEORY. It has evidence and people don't shape their lives around it. I don't go out stoning gay people because I support the IT. IT'S JUST A THEORY (Vlue is in the name). Read my earlier post in reply to another ****ing idiot. (2nd post page 5)

You do know that without theories we wouldn't know about evolution or the laws of physics. What a ridiculus comparison.

[Tiax Rules All]

xsdob wrote...

Than why didn't they implement it like they did in dragonage origins when you get trapped in the fade? That would have made it a whole lot more believable.

more believable? maybe. to you. Its believable enough already for me.
It also would not "trick" anybody, would then be pointless. Its breaking the 4th wall. It needs a chance to fool the player as well.

[xsdob]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Than why didn't they implement it like they did in dragonage origins when you get trapped in the fade? That would have made it a whole lot more believable.

more believable? maybe. to you. Its believable enough already for me.
It also would not "trick" anybody, would then be pointless. Its breaking the 4th wall. It needs a chance to fool the player as well.

Does bioware even have a history of tricking the palyers with something this important? Cause last time I checked you had to screw up pretty badly to die through trickery, like picking to save mornith or choosing to not using any persuasion or alignment triggers on the illusive man.

[Tiax Rules All]

Ariella wrote...
That makes no sense in the context of the end game.

The dreams were manifestations of Shepard's psyche trying to deal with what s/he saw on Earth.

Occum's razor. Simplest answer is often the correct one. The first dream takes place the first time Shepard has a chance to stop moving and actually sleep. His/her subconcious is trying to deal with the fact he/she couldn't save that child. It wasn't some faceless red shirt #5. He/she probably had seen the kid out the window of his.her confinement multiple times beyond the beginning of ME 3. He/she spoke to said kid, tried to get him to come out to safety, and then watched him get on a shuttle which proceeds to be shot down by a Reaper.

The voices in the following dreams are those he/she lost: Ash or Kaiden, Mordin, Thane etc. It PTSD more than any attempt at indoctrination. The loss and inability to save everyone is repeated time and time again as a theme in ME 3. Garrus and Shepard talk about it. So does Liara...

you see it differently thats for sure.

I see the nightmares as a warning. following /comprimising /helping the kid and you will burn.

Its a warning, one you did not heed. Yes Shepard is having coping issues (ptsd as you say) but cant they be a little bit of both. or dreams at first then Indoctrination later.

speak about time and time again. Indoctrination, what to look for, what to avoid. Its there too.

we will never see eye to eye.  Its not necessarily an insult by me saying "you are indoctrinated" its just the truth as I see it. The game fooled you. You have not come to terms with the deception yet.

[Peer of the Empire]

Saberchic wrote...

The IT theory has holes. It's not perfect. Why favor that over the "it was real" theory?

IT theory doesn't have any holes.  Fundamentally, it states only that the ending is nonsense and therefore a dream.

[Tiax Rules All]

xsdob wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Than why didn't they implement it like they did in dragonage origins when you get trapped in the fade? That would have made it a whole lot more believable.

more believable? maybe. to you. Its believable enough already for me.
It also would not "trick" anybody, would then be pointless. Its breaking the 4th wall. It needs a chance to fool the player as well.

Does bioware even have a history of tricking the palyers with something this important? Cause last time I checked you had to screw up pretty badly to die through trickery, like picking to save mornith or choosing to not using any persuasion or alignment triggers on the illusive man.

Its only YOUR problem if you cant imagine Bioware diong this. Bioware has a twist in every single game they have ever came out with...

Revan, Jade empire boss, many in BG series, there is a tread about this.

and even if nobody has done it before, so what. there is no rule to say they can't

[FemmeShep]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Because the haters dont like the idea that bioware pulled the wool over their eyes and basically indoctrinated the players.

Someone must have missed the video where Mac said there would not be any DLC after the end we saw.

Further, most IT believers don't really understand the ending. So there's that.

Modifié par FemmeShep, 04 avril 2012 - 02:01 .

[pharsti]

The IT is not fact, its honestly nothing but a convoluted fanfic, or you could call it the ultimate level in denial. Its actually worse and it makes as much sense as the space magic.

[Trentgamer]

This whole indoc theory seems forced and I can't help but feel that it's wishful thinking on the part of many fans who were dissapointed in the ending. When you look at the details of this theory there are just as many holes in it as in the ending we were given. I just don't think Bioware had it in mind at all when they did what they did..I think they were short on time and kind of slapped on an ending.

[Tiax Rules All]

FemmeShep wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Because the haters dont like the idea that bioware pulled the wool over their eyes and basically indoctrinated the players.

Someone must have missed the video where Mac said there would not be any DLC after the end we saw.

Well I have certainly missed this all telling super important "video" that im sure you will not be able to find if I asked you to source.

[Delta095]

The theory is pretty solid, but I feel like there's almost no chance that it was anything besides bad writing. They may never admit that, and will probably cling to the "yeah, it was a hallucination! hehe" argument but truth be told, I don't think it was anything but a badly written ending

[EugeneBi]

I think only people in denial of reality can believe in IT. No, it is not that bad - it is much better than the official ending. It's a pity that BW developers did not invent it and put in the game - holding it back as DLC would be both too clever and insane. Recent BW history simply suggests that the company has changed and harsh deadlines with greed make such wonders as this ending or the entire DA2.

[j78]

I don’t get It .If everyone knows that at one point that indoctrination was going to be one of the endings .Why does this argument keep coming up they left out the indoctrination ending based on their inability to get the game play mechanics to work. I doubt that means they rewrote the whole game to remove all the indoctrination stuff form the game . It’s still in there thats why it has merit. Do I believe they will use it no .

Modifié par j78, 04 avril 2012 - 02:10 .

[FemmeShep]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Because the haters dont like the idea that bioware pulled the wool over their eyes and basically indoctrinated the players.

Someone must have missed the video where Mac said there would not be any DLC after the end we saw.

Well I have certainly missed this all telling super important "video" that im sure you will not be able to find if I asked you to source.

[Iophon]

Because "and then she woke up" is barely less pathetic a cop-out than the ending we already have. Arguably, it's worse. The present ending is merely stupid. "And then she woke up" is insult to injury.

I don't know why this idea is so popular except that the need to find something different from the current, abysmal ending is overriding any critical thinking about the speculated alternatives.