300 réponses à ce sujet

[Athlonix]

I'm believing the IT as well, it makes sense, especially when certain things definitely felt 'off'
Followed up by Biowares use in previous games, yes IT seems a very likely ending, BUT thats exactly my problem... the ending wasn't an ending it was a cliff hanger, where the fate of the galaxy and Shepard receive no closure.

OK lets say i accept the IT, the relays, the crew on the Normandy and shepards last breath, no closure, even if the ending is extended and explains everything i'll be happy, I was happy right up til the ending, the RGB bit i see as a reaper mental attack on Shepard, so to me the game isn't ended, not yet..

[HellishFiend]

draken-heart wrote...

again with IT, is it so hard to believe that it is all in Shepard's head but not Indoctrination?

Have you already made up your mind about this or are you still on the fence? If you are on the fence, you are quite welcome to come to the IT topic and discuss it with us. 

[HellishFiend]

Athlonix wrote...

I'm believing the IT as well, it makes sense, especially when certain things definitely felt 'off'
Followed up by Biowares use in previous games, yes IT seems a very likely ending, BUT thats exactly my problem... the ending wasn't an ending it was a cliff hanger, where the fate of the galaxy and Shepard receive no closure.

OK lets say i accept the IT, the relays, the crew on the Normandy and shepards last breath, no closure, even if the ending is extended and explains everything i'll be happy, I was happy right up til the ending, the RGB bit i see as a reaper mental attack on Shepard, so to me the game isn't ended, not yet..

Well, the thing is, Bioware has stated that the trilogy is Shepard's story, and that specifically, ME3 is the end of Shepard's story. It's possible that, in that context, the ending we have on-disc could technically be considered an ending, because it is from Shepard's point of view that he has ended the conflict. It's a tricky play on words, but Bioware could get away with it if they chose to. 

[draken-heart]

HellishFiend wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

again with IT, is it so hard to believe that it is all in Shepard's head but not Indoctrination?

Have you already made up your mind about this or are you still on the fence? If you are on the fence, you are quite welcome to come to the IT topic and discuss it with us. 

i firmly believe the end is in Shepard's head, but  i believe Indoctrinations is not involved, at least not how IT says it is.

Modifié par draken-heart, 12 juin 2012 - 08:43 .

[BP20125810]

Different games mean different groups of people that work on them. Hell, even Mass Effect 3 is split up into teams that do multiplayer DLC and teams that work on single player content.

[jijeebo]

Makrys wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

"Bioware aren't lazy! Look at how they've done the exact same twist in the past!"


Cereally, informing people that the IT is just a rehash of a twist Bioware have already used in the past doesn't make it more appealing...

Its not about making it more 'appealing'; many people like the IT, some don't. Its making a point that since Bioware loves twists, the IT is entirely possible. Likely, even. Especially given what they said pre-release about ME3 having some 'big twist'. Almost all Bioware games have had a big twist, especially the ones that Walters and Hudson have worked on. So, it is quite possible, and perhaps even probable. 

None of those games had a twist that wasn't revealed until 5 months later though, where the exact opposite of it all being planned has been cereally implied in their post-release statements, interviews from VAs ect.


And ME3 DID have a big twist... The Catalyst.

Its implementation might have sucked monkey balls, but it was still a helluva twist finding out that the Reapers had a puppet master that was still around... At least imo anyway.

[Thaa_solon]

jijeebo wrote...

Makrys wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

"Bioware aren't lazy! Look at how they've done the exact same twist in the past!"


Cereally, informing people that the IT is just a rehash of a twist Bioware have already used in the past doesn't make it more appealing...

Its not about making it more 'appealing'; many people like the IT, some don't. Its making a point that since Bioware loves twists, the IT is entirely possible. Likely, even. Especially given what they said pre-release about ME3 having some 'big twist'. Almost all Bioware games have had a big twist, especially the ones that Walters and Hudson have worked on. So, it is quite possible, and perhaps even probable. 

None of those games had a twist that wasn't revealed until 5 months later though, where the exact opposite of it all being planned has been cereally implied in their post-release statements, interviews from VAs ect.


And ME3 DID have a big twist... The Catalyst.

Its implementation might have sucked monkey balls, but it was still a helluva twist finding out that the Reapers had a puppet master that was still around... At least imo anyway.

We all have our own opinions...... Your's up here


Mine down here


Nothing was planned, bioware just wing'd it


Case closed:D

[zambingo]

LOVE HEARTS PROPS

Zombie Chow wrote...

Like many of you, I did not find the current ending of Mass Effect 3 entirely satisfactory.  You likely know what I mean and you feel as I do, so I won't get into that.

I've been looking at the Indoctrination Theory thread and the video at , where the ending is basically a hallucination the Reapers created in Shepard's mind to fool him into just giving up.  The train of thought and supporting evidence makes a lot of sense to me, at least more than taking the ending at face value.

What struck me was that Bioware has already done something like this, but almost a decade ago.  It was in the game Neverwinter Nights, in an expansion called Hordes of the Underdark.

It was a Dungeons & Dragons fantasy RPG, where at one point you confront an advanced civilisation of psychic Mind Flayers, ruled by a giant Elder Brain.  You can choose to negotiate with it, but if you try to attack, it psychically creates an illusion that makes you think you've won the war, ended up in a small idyllic forest, with a charming hostess inviting you to a celebration (to my recollection, it's been years since I played this).  If you accept, the credits roll exactly as if you completed the game.

The preferred solution against the Elder Brain, of course, was to use your character's Wisdom score or just common sense to break out of the psychic deception and fight back.

Edit - Below, fellow player Ellychid32 pointed out something even I missed.  Bioware also used this mind trick idea in Dragon Age: Origins (during a sequence where you enter the world of dreams).  Again an enemy mentally constructs a perfect scenario where your mentor congratulates you on your victory and the only way out is to attack him.  This trope just seems to be something that Bioware likes to use, 10 years ago, 3 years ago, and IMHO now.

Now back to ME3.  I just found the secret ending to keep Shepard alive.  More importantly, it only applies if you choose to destroy all synths, both Reaper and Geth according to the God Child.  I didn't choose that before as that seems too Renegade for my previous Shepard alts, but now I know that exists, it maps closely to the situation in Hordes of the Underdark.  The "correct answer" is not to make peace, not to control, not to even try to be a Paragon, but just fight back to resist the illusion.

I believe the pieces of evidence in the Indoctrination Theory are intentional clues left by Bioware.  The current endings are a deliberate and very convincing mind trick not just on Shepard, but on us as players so that we're really immersed.  We totally fell for it, so well done, Bioware!  Bioware wants the fans to figure it out before they release a DLC that builds on this. Well, clearly you did figure it out, with your beautiful explanations, and soon the DLC with the true ending is coming.

I just wanted to share this information to those that never played the Neverwinter Nights series (as they're quite old), seeing that this is a sort of mind trick Bioware used before, to show that hope is on the way.

[zambingo]

MORE LOVE HEARTS PROPS

HellishFiend wrote...

Athlonix wrote...

I'm believing the IT as well, it makes sense, especially when certain things definitely felt 'off'
Followed up by Biowares use in previous games, yes IT seems a very likely ending, BUT thats exactly my problem... the ending wasn't an ending it was a cliff hanger, where the fate of the galaxy and Shepard receive no closure.

OK lets say i accept the IT, the relays, the crew on the Normandy and shepards last breath, no closure, even if the ending is extended and explains everything i'll be happy, I was happy right up til the ending, the RGB bit i see as a reaper mental attack on Shepard, so to me the game isn't ended, not yet..

Well, the thing is, Bioware has stated that the trilogy is Shepard's story, and that specifically, ME3 is the end of Shepard's story. It's possible that, in that context, the ending we have on-disc could technically be considered an ending, because it is from Shepard's point of view that he has ended the conflict. It's a tricky play on words, but Bioware could get away with it if they chose to. 

[HellishFiend]

zambingo wrote...

MORE LOVE HEARTS PROPS

Thanks. 

[DeinonSlayer]

You bump a four-month dead thread for this? Why?

[TJBartlemus]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

You bump a four-month dead thread for this? Why?

Who knows...it's cool anyway. 

[Lunch Box1912]

Please! Oh dear god don't do this to us again!  I can’t... I just can’t re-light the kindling of hope again, the pain oh the pain!


Oh thank the maker this is 7 months old.

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 23 octobre 2012 - 02:45 .

[Ithurael]

Is this how IT started on BSN?

[locsphere]

If it were true, it would win BioWare mad props, however it will also raise new issues if Truth DLC is a paid for item. You would be basically paying for your ending. I can see what they are trying to do and if they did well done!

However, these kind of mind tricks and messing with fans is better done if for a brief time,they kind of waited too long. If it happened with a ton of succession per month immediately after release Leviathan, then Omega then truth... That would have been well implemented, but we are approaching 8 months since launch.

It seems that if it were true, they used fan feedback to create the ending the fans wanted ? Or just bought them more time to work on an unfinished game and add things that should have been in there in the first place. They in turn make more money than just a 60 dollar release. Its a weird position, because on one side they are giving fans what they want, but on the other side of things they are kind of nickle and diming them and they know they can because of their emotional investment in the game, story, and universe.

I'll be there eagerly waiting but the saying goes, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.... The fool he can't be fooled again...

[UrgentArchengel]

Leviathan's ending is proof enough that the whole Catalyst thing is more than meets the eye.

[MegaSovereign]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Leviathan's ending is proof enough that the whole Catalyst thing is more than meets the eye.

The only thing it does is confirm that the Reaper central intelligence does actually exist.

This actually weakens the IT.

[xsamplexample]

wow great find, OP! i was too young to play NWN, but I do remember the scene in Origins where Duncan is alive congratulating you, but its fake.

Ive always believed in IT, and seeing occasional posts like this always make my day.

[xsamplexample]

MegaSovereign wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Leviathan's ending is proof enough that the whole Catalyst thing is more than meets the eye.

The only thing it does is confirm that the Reaper central intelligence does actually exist.

This actually weakens the IT.

actually, it lends to the idea that the Intelligence cant be trusted....

[Chala]

Dead threads are back to life?
This confirms IT!

[wantedman dan]

People are giving Bioware too much credit.

Just admit it, they screwed the pooch big time. When you do that, you can give up this useless hope and move on with life.

[MegaSovereign]

wantedman dan wrote...

People are giving Bioware too much credit.

Just admit it, they screwed the pooch big time. When you do that, you can give up this useless hope and move on with life.

A lot of people who do hate the endings haven't moved on. I don't think giving up on the IT will necessarily make them less obsessed with the endings.