300 réponses à ce sujet

[Nu-Nu]

OMG this gives me hope, my support for indoctranation theory has gone up from 90% to 98%, 2% still think it's probaly bad writing.

[Spanky Magoo]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I'm 70% IT and 30% just bad/lazy writing on the issue

80% bad writing for me, The fact that IT seem to fit so well and would be a giant mind blown moment for some leads me to think that they would never do this. It would not fit in their "new direction" ala MP/casual ( no offense meant just speaking of those that picked up ME3 first because apparently its the "best place" to start" ) players to make something that only the hardcore fans would appreciate. 

[dreman9999]

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I'm 70% IT and 30% just bad/lazy writing on the issue

80% bad writing for me, The fact that IT seem to fit so well and would be a giant mind blown moment for some leads me to think that they would never do this. It would not fit in their "new direction" ala MP/casual ( no offense meant just speaking of those that picked up ME3 first because apparently its the "best place" to start" ) players to make something that only the hardcore fans would appreciate. 

It that were ture....The other 99% of the game would of been dumbed downed.

[Eshaye]

Well at least it proves Bioware is clever enough and capable of coming up with something like this all on their lonesome.

Now what will the accusations be, they lack innovation?

Joolazoo wrote...

So do IT theorists believe Bioware intentionally sold a game that ended before the concluding act?

Yes. I do, that's exactly what it seems like. Would that really be a surprise at this point? 

Modifié par Eshaye, 04 avril 2012 - 01:48 .

[malra]

dreman9999 wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I'm 70% IT and 30% just bad/lazy writing on the issue

80% bad writing for me, The fact that IT seem to fit so well and would be a giant mind blown moment for some leads me to think that they would never do this. It would not fit in their "new direction" ala MP/casual ( no offense meant just speaking of those that picked up ME3 first because apparently its the "best place" to start" ) players to make something that only the hardcore fans would appreciate. 

It that were ture....The other 99% of the game would of been dumbed downed.

the rest of the game was dumbed down. 

[malra]

In fact, I would way it was stripped down to only the most essential hard core fan elements in order to accomodate the whole none-storytelling shooter. From a programming stand point it would be the easiest way to go. One of the aspects that people who prefer gameplay over story complained about quite loudly over the first two games, and especially the first game, was how slow the game was because of all the RPG elements that are what gave it the great storytelling feel that it had to begin with. So, if you are ultimately trying to create a game that appeals to a different type of player you have to find a way to meld two entirely different styles of playing. Since those who prefer seamless, fast gameplay don't want to be bogged down with all of the story details lets just lose some of the details. This is done by stripping down conversation options on the wheel, forcing everyone into the same roles because quite simply it is easier to handle from a programming standpoint. The hardcore fans are given their "nod" through all the goodbye missions, which in the end felt like I was reading the end of David Eddings Belgariad or Mallorian series where you spend the last few chapters of the book riding around telling everyone goodbye and in the end you almost wished they would all just die.

The really sad thing is, this game was originally a storytelling space opera RPG. And the occasional storytelling element that pops up in three, like the mission to Tuchanka, show what Bioware used to be.

[kegNeggs]

ooh a HotUD reference. fancy fancy!

I wish to space jesus you are right!!

[Zombie Chow]

Hi guys, thanks for sharing your own insights and references.  There were many things I simply hadn't considered until I read your replies, like:

- Dragon Age: Origins has even more (and better) examples
- ME3 Producer Jesse Houston's interview at Comic Con 2011
- ME3 was designed to appeal to a more casual audience
- An announcement is already scheduled for this Friday at PAX

I'm going to think more on your points and amend my OP, because whether or not they support my views, they're very good points that deserve consideration.

I also wanted to mention as a courtesy to those that responded, even though they replied to my points, they may not necessarily support the Indoctrination Theory.  They may just be saying, "I see how this Hordes of the Underdark example is relevant and I have some ideas on that aspect."

Modifié par Zombie Chow, 04 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[DreamTension]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I'm 70% IT and 30% just bad/lazy writing on the issue

I don't know how you came to those numbers, but...me too...

[Zombie Chow]

Sorry, accidental double-post.  Please ignore this one.

Modifié par Zombie Chow, 04 avril 2012 - 05:20 .

[Silveralen]

dreman9999 wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I'm 70% IT and 30% just bad/lazy writing on the issue

80% bad writing for me, The fact that IT seem to fit so well and would be a giant mind blown moment for some leads me to think that they would never do this. It would not fit in their "new direction" ala MP/casual ( no offense meant just speaking of those that picked up ME3 first because apparently its the "best place" to start" ) players to make something that only the hardcore fans would appreciate. 

It that were ture....The other 99% of the game would of been dumbed downed.

Shallower RPG system, shallower conversation system, auto conversation option, removal of most sidequests except as random shooting galleries, exploration heavily limited/removed.

So yeah, they did dumb down the 99%, where have you been?

[Tritium315]

dreman9999 wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I'm 70% IT and 30% just bad/lazy writing on the issue

80% bad writing for me, The fact that IT seem to fit so well and would be a giant mind blown moment for some leads me to think that they would never do this. It would not fit in their "new direction" ala MP/casual ( no offense meant just speaking of those that picked up ME3 first because apparently its the "best place" to start" ) players to make something that only the hardcore fans would appreciate. 

It that were ture....The other 99% of the game would of been dumbed downed.

The problem is that the rest of game was written by whatever writer was responsible for the mission/character/etc. and then looked over by the rest of the team. The ending, on the other hand, was created by Mac and Casey alone without any input from the other writers. That's the reason the rest of the game is good while the ending is retarded.

Modifié par Tritium315, 04 avril 2012 - 08:03 .

[Jazharah]

One can hope...

If BioWare truly pulls this stunt off, my increasing apathy would make a 180 into enthusiasm.

Until then, my apathy will just keep increasing most likely.

[Sc2mashimaro]

I noted this too. Bioware has a history of using dream sub-plots and sub-sections within their games. Now, did they do it in Mass Effect? I don't know. I hope so, but I'll reserve judgement until after PAX.

[Vhalkyrie]

Yes, this is where I got to as well. They drop too many hints in the game.

Anderson: "The only way to win this is dead Reapers."
Hackett: "Trying to control a Reaper is like taming a shark. A lot of people end up dead."

If you chose destroy, Shepard who is on the verge of death, suddenly stands up straight and walks faster. Destroy is the only ending where Shepard is seen alive.  High EMS + Destroy is the only Shepard Lives condition.  I don't think this is unintentional.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 04 avril 2012 - 08:15 .

[Cobra's_back]

Ellychid32 wrote...

Wasn't there a scene in DA:O like this as well? You woke up in the Grey Warden palace (or whatever it was, can't remember exactly) to find Duncan there. He says the war is won. You quickly figure out it is a dream.

yes the fade

[N7L4D]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Yes, this is where I got to as well. They drop too many hints in the game.

Anderson: "The only way to win this is dead Reapers."
Hackett: "Trying to control a Reaper is like taming a shark. A lot of people end up dead."

If you chose destroy, Shepard who is on the verge of death, suddenly stands up straight and walks faster. Destroy is the only ending where Shepard is seen alive.  High EMS + Destroy is the only Shepard Lives condition.  I don't think this is unintentional.

BAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMM!!!! smoking gun lmao

[Garlador]

Didn't Jade Empire had that entire chapter where you die... and then fight your way out of the afterlife to reclaim your body and finish your fight?

That was awesome.

[Tritium315]

Garlador wrote...

Didn't Jade Empire had that entire chapter where you die... and then fight your way out of the afterlife to reclaim your body and finish your fight?

That was awesome.

Imagine if the game ended when you died, and then a month later they released the rest as DLC. That'd be fun.

Modifié par Tritium315, 04 avril 2012 - 08:24 .

[brockolini]

GravityEyelids wrote...

I WANT TO BELIEVE

QFT



Btw, all this hoping and speculating is KILLING my GPA right now.

[The JoeMan]

You know, I like indoc theory and am looking forward to this Friday to find out if it's true or not. One thing that I've noticed though is that people always assume that destroy is the only proper choice (I chose it too). Has anyone considered that maybe the crucible IS a weapon that can destroy the Reapers and that picking the red ending means Shepard is convinced to destroy it FOR the Reapers essentially saving them? Maybe all three "choices" result in the destruction of the one thing that can defeat the Reapers and Shepard was the tool that they used to do it. Of course this assumes that while Shepard IS indoctrinated he does not mearly stay on Earth the whole time. Essentially, what we SEE is true but what we are TOLD is a lie.

I recognize that this doesn't address how he gets back to Earth in the rubble for the high EMS destroy ending but it might be interesting to explore none the less.

[brbvideotapes]

Bump for importance! Also my desperate hope of IT being true has just been reinforced a little.

[Randalf84]

Plus lets not forget the "unreliable narrator" moments in DA2. The one good thing about that game.

[Von Salza]

Garlador wrote...

Didn't Jade Empire had that entire chapter where you die... and then fight your way out of the afterlife to reclaim your body and finish your fight?

That was awesome.

I like that game so much that I have both XBOX and PC version...Damn I miss that old Bioware...now we just waiting to see if the theory is right or not...