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[The Night Mammoth]

Rockpopple wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

If this is indicative of the Retake movement, y'all have lost your damn minds.

I find your banner highly ironic. 

I find the prospect of suing because of "false advertising" highly r-tarded. 

Any lawyer worth their salt would simply tell you there is no case for false advertising here. None. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Zero. 

It's just not gonna happen.

Yes, which is why I think the very idea is absurd. 

It's just not indictive of anything, other than that some people have very strange and potentially damaging delusions.

But hey, these people often need to be told by a professional to their faces that they should give up. 

[DoctorEss]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

antony1197 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

2 more days dammit, this couldnt have waited 2 more days?

No it couldnt considering it was sort of confirmed that its just clarification, i dont have a link to the post but its somewhere here

mm hmm. "confirmed" alright..

really people. 2 more days

The @masseffect twitter even said it.  No new endings.  They aren't changing them.

[Rockpopple]

Senario wrote...

A lot of people are saying this is unreasonable and I am not sure why.

Lemme break it down for you then.

Consumer protection laws are clear, false advertising to sell a product is wrong and should be punishable by law.

They sold a video game. You popped it into your console and it worked. It didn't even work for everyone. Some people popped the disk in or started up their digital copy, and it didn't work. THAT'S STILL NOT FALSE ADVERTISING.

The multitude of promises that were put out to promote ME3 is what I would consider "False Advertising". They said there would be a multitude of vastly different endings, that they wouldn't have it a choice of "A, B, or C".

There are more than 3 endings BioWare didn't promise you multiple radically different, life-altering endings that no one else who played the game would get. They promised you multiple endings and that's what you got. Just because those multiple endings were coated in 3 main colours doesn't make them 3 endings, and if you try to take that argument to court, you will be annihilated. 

Even the phrase "Retake Earth" is somewhat wrong because you never do retake Earth.

That is a tagline. Suing over a tagline is insane. 

I'm sure if concerns aren't addressed at PAX, EA and Bioware are going to have a big problem due to false advertising.

No, they won't. Any lawyer worth their salt would laugh anyone wanting to make a case of false advertsing out of the room. Only an ambulance-chaser who wanted to get his name in the blogs would take that case, and it would go nowhere, fast. 

Look, I'm just being honest here. You can try to pool up and sue, but if you do, make sure you do so in America so you don't have to pay EA's legal team after you lose, because that's basically how it works in most of the rest of the world.

[The Night Mammoth]

DoctorEss wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

antony1197 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

2 more days dammit, this couldnt have waited 2 more days?

No it couldnt considering it was sort of confirmed that its just clarification, i dont have a link to the post but its somewhere here

mm hmm. "confirmed" alright..

really people. 2 more days

The @masseffect twitter even said it.  No new endings.  They aren't changing them.

They said we'd be getting nothing a few weeks ago. 

Really, I'll deal with it when I hear it from a BioWare employees mouth in a video or see it in an official statement. Their impersonal public outlets like Twitter and Facebook are far too erratic and unreliable.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 04 avril 2012 - 05:04 .

[rachellouise]

the comments people are talking about were made when the game was in production, plans change. It's not like the game was finished, and on the shelves, then the company advertised it like that.

[Reciever80]

I'm never buying a new copy of an EA game, if not any copy of an EA game, and I'm never buying another Bioware game again. First the CoD series, now this. Oh well.

Modifié par Reciever80, 04 avril 2012 - 05:08 .

[crappyjazzy]

Zolt51 wrote...

Just go, sue, and I'll laugh my ass off when you get torn apart in court.

It wouldn't even get that far.

(Serious)

[Skyblade012]

Rockpopple wrote...

Senario wrote...

A lot of people are saying this is unreasonable and I am not sure why.

Lemme break it down for you then.

Consumer protection laws are clear, false advertising to sell a product is wrong and should be punishable by law.

They sold a video game. You popped it into your console and it worked. It didn't even work for everyone. Some people popped the disk in or started up their digital copy, and it didn't work. THAT'S STILL NOT FALSE ADVERTISING.

The multitude of promises that were put out to promote ME3 is what I would consider "False Advertising". They said there would be a multitude of vastly different endings, that they wouldn't have it a choice of "A, B, or C".

There are more than 3 endings BioWare didn't promise you multiple radically different, life-altering endings that no one else who played the game would get. They promised you multiple endings and that's what you got. Just because those multiple endings were coated in 3 main colours doesn't make them 3 endings, and if you try to take that argument to court, you will be annihilated. 

Even the phrase "Retake Earth" is somewhat wrong because you never do retake Earth.

That is a tagline. Suing over a tagline is insane. 

I'm sure if concerns aren't addressed at PAX, EA and Bioware are going to have a big problem due to false advertising.

No, they won't. Any lawyer worth their salt would laugh anyone wanting to make a case of false advertsing out of the room. Only an ambulance-chaser who wanted to get his name in the blogs would take that case, and it would go nowhere, fast. 

Look, I'm just being honest here. You can try to pool up and sue, but if you do, make sure you do so in America so you don't have to pay EA's legal team after you lose, because that's basically how it works in most of the rest of the world.

How about the dev statement that the presence of the rachni "would have a large impact even on just the final fight with the Reapers", when it literally has zero impact on that scene?

[Sakanade]

crappyjazzy wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

Just go, sue, and I'll laugh my ass off when you get torn apart in court.

It wouldn't even get that far.

(Serious)

Modifié par Sakanade, 04 avril 2012 - 05:14 .

[Rockpopple]

Skyblade012 wrote...

How about the dev statement that the presence of the rachni "would have a large impact even on just the final fight with the Reapers", when it literally has zero impact on that scene?

I have a large list of quotes the devs have said before launch that some people were saying were all lies, but I proved that not all of them were. In fact, most of them weren't lies at all.

That one was one I tagged as a lie.

But so what? You're gonna sue for False Advertising because the Rachni didn't get a cutscene at the end?

Let's keep it real: no joy. That's not gonna happen.

Your power as gamers isn't in suing companies that ****** you off with BS like "false advertisement". It's in abstaining from buying their stuff. 

Stop. Buying. Their. Stuff.

[CDHarrisUSF]

Rockpopple wrote...

BioWare didn't promise you multiple radically different [endings] ...

I agree that this is a stupid way to handle the situation (I'll just sell my copy and sever ties with Bioware), but that is pretty much exactly what they promised. Bioware stated that because the game was the last in the trilogy, this allowed them to make the endings "wildly different" (their words) from each other because they no longer have to funnel the various endings into the next game's beginning. Instead, what we got were endings which play out almost identically no matter what you do... as if they were trying to funnel them into the next game.

Modifié par CDHarrisUSF, 04 avril 2012 - 05:34 .

[ZodiEmish]

* Face Palm *

Come on OP... Your just bringing negative press to the retake movement. I mean if you want to file that is good for you, but bringing it out in the open like this will just bring negative press. Plus I agree. You could have waited at least two days before doing this.

Oh well... I can't worry about it. Some people will do silly things. Plus I have better more important things to do.

* Alt Tabs back to EVE, and gets back to Mining Veldspar *

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'll add this then I'm out of this thread.

Do I feel betrayed by BioWare? Yes. Do I think I have a legal argument against BioWare on this matter that will stand in a court of law? No. Why? Technicalities. Red, Green, and Blue are multiple endings. The .bik files are 16 different endings, technically.

One last thing. The costs of going to court. EA has corporate attorneys on retainer. You have to hire attorneys. A good attorney costs about $350/hr. Every time you call them they charge you. If you really think you've got a case, contact a paralegal and pay them the $50 consultation fee to review your claim. No one does this for free.

Is it right for them to overhype a product? No. Did they overhype a product? Yes. Will they pay the consequences for this in future releases if they don't fix this? Possibly -- if you stick to your guns and demand a better product. That's the bottom line right there. I'm going to stick to my guns and demand a better product.

[Rockpopple]

@CDHarrisUSF - I disagree. At this point we're just arguing semantics. Is an ending where everything is red and the earth and all inhabitents therein are destroyed radically or wildly different from a red ending where earth is intact? That's up to interpretation.

But again, a lawsuit using the above as an argument would be laughed out of the courtroom, assuming it even got that far.

People who are angry enough to sue should do as you did: sell their game and sever ties. That has a much better chance of bringing change (if done in large enough numbers) than some ridiculous lawsuit would.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 04 avril 2012 - 05:41 .

[ZodiEmish]

Rockpopple wrote...


People who are angry enough to sue should do as you did: sell their game and sever ties. That has a much better chance of bringing change (if done in large enough numbers) than some ridiculous lawsuit would.

I am half tempted to make this right here apart of my sig.

[Brother Takka]

I want my 16 endings.

[Fulgrim88]

Rockpopple wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

How about the dev statement that the presence of the rachni "would have a large impact even on just the final fight with the Reapers", when it literally has zero impact on that scene?

I have a large list of quotes the devs have said before launch that some people were saying were all lies, but I proved that not all of them were. In fact, most of them weren't lies at all.

Yeah, it's certainly possible to interpret them in a way that makes them incredibly ambigious misinformation, rather than flat out lies.

But seeing as you can do that with everything, False Advertising wouldn't exist.

Let's keep it real: no joy. That's not gonna happen.

Your power as gamers isn't in suing companies that ****** you off with BS like "false advertisement". It's in abstaining from buying their stuff. 

Stop. Buying. Their. Stuff.

I don't think that's a good alternative either.

Sure, it puts up financial pressure. But it does little to actually change the way consumers are treated in the Gaming Industry. It's virtually the only multi billion dollar industry that still get's away with...well, everything.

People have won lawsuits for way dumber things in the US. I don't see why this seems so wholly unreal.
Apart from the fact that Video Games seem to be magically removed from the realm of consumer rights entirely.

It doesn't have to be that way. Video Games can and should be treated like the products they are. And Fans should finally consider themselves customers. I feel dumb for having to point that out.

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 04 avril 2012 - 05:53 .

[Silveralen]

Rockpopple wrote...

@CDHarrisUSF - I disagree. At this point we're just arguing semantics. Is an ending where everything is red and the earth and all inhabitents therein are destroyed radically or wildly different from a red ending where earth is intact? That's up to interpretation.

But again, a lawsuit using the above as an argument would be laughed out of the courtroom, assuming it even got that far.

People who are angry enough to sue should do as you did: sell their game and sever ties. That has a much better chance of bringing change (if done in large enough numbers) than some ridiculous lawsuit would.

Agreed on most counts. I don't think you realize how idiotic our legal system, especially civil law, can get. I'd be suprised if it was dismissed immeaditly.

But besides that I agree, you are much better returning the product (which EA is already letting you do) as that is literally your best case scenario with a lawsuit. Just take it back, or sell it if your vendor doesn't allow that option. Flood the market with used copies, tell everyone not to buy it, drive the price down. That is a better option.

P.S. Waiting for PAX is the worst idea ever. If you have a case, or think you do, move forward. IF not, be quiet. Same with selling your game.

[Da Don Giovanni]

Brother Takka wrote...

I want my 16 endings.

Yep.

[iorveth1271]

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

**Note: Should Stanley Woo or Chris dismiss this as "not ME3 related" and lock this thread. You would be furthering my evidence that A) you don't care about the fans, you care about your bank statement and you have abandoned the #1 rule of Business: Customer Satisfaction.


Agreed?

Agreed? No.

Why? Because IMO, as much as I dislike Bioware having so blatantly lied to us about the game on multiple occasions, this was simple PR used for so many products (not only by EA) that it simply doesn't matter to me. I don't like what they did, but a lawsuit is simply taking it a few steps too far from where I'm standing.

Also, I think this note of yours... is BS. If at all, it would be shut down either for troll/break of CoC in some comments or for "Not ME3 Campaign and Story (Spoilers allowed)-related". What you're doing there with that note is simply being biased and disregarding the work a moderator simply has to do, no matter how you feel about them and Bioware/EA.

Therefore, I totally disagree with this entire FTC lawsuit thing. Do that with things the world needs, not a video game. The world, even though we're on a forum about video games discussing the ending of one such video game in several heated discussions, has bigger problems.

[acidproof2]

Sorry, but the #1 rule of business is not customer satisfaction. The #1 rule of business is to maximize shareholder wealth.

Customer satisfaction is a mechanism through which to achieve this (ostensibly).

Sorry if this was already mentioned. Didn't want to read through 13 pages.

[gmboy902]

Here's the thing. Were we falsely advertised to? Yes. Is this something you can hold up legally? No.

16 different endings/no A,B,C endings? 3 different paths * 3 TIM outcomes (Anderson dead, Shoot TIM, TIM suicides) * Cortez is alive or dead * Did or didn't have the special ending = 36 different endings. Wow! That's a lot!

You can't define "an ending" to the law system. EAWare could define any combination of choices after you begin the Cerberus base mission as "an ending".

I'd love to see EAWare get it handed to them by the FTC. But that realistically won't happen. Which is why we have to hit their wallets directly through the magic of capitalism - don't buy their DLC, namely. EA is a company, and EA really likes money. If they notice that, hey, maybe fixing this ending will get 30,000+ more people to buy our DLC, it might be worth it.

[granyte]

we wait till pax and fi they don't solve this we wack it in ther faces

[DeeLite808]

solution:
'
dont like what you get. return your game and never look back. you're not hurting anyone but yourselves in the end.

[pharsti]

Im not from the US, but i see no problem with pursuing this, videogame industry nowadays seems to be immune to any kind of law anyway.

So, good luck to whoever goes this route. Thou i higly doubt this would fly legally, unfortunately.