405 réponses à ce sujet

[PhotonMaze]

antony1197 wrote...

Oilking72 wrote...

Give it an effing rest.

Why should we? They lied to us about a product that they sell, and not once did they say otherwise.

Companies lie all the time! Stop wasting your time, effort and money on lost causes and focus on the things that matter in the world.

[Navasha]

Oh please. There is no false advertising. If a McDonalds commercial on TV can show a big plump juicy delicious looking burger compared to what you ACTUALLY get when you open the wrapper and that not be considered false advertising.... you certainly aren't going to win anything here.

[Almostfaceman]

I don't want to sue Bioware, but yes I think this is definitely a case of where they didn't deliver what they promised. I'll just stop buying their products. There's always Bethesda...

[sistersafetypin]

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

not from the US, but I wish you good luck

I'm dead serious, this is clear cut False Advertising and such is regulated by the FTC and is punishable by law.

I agree

[Navasha]

Almostfaceman wrote...

I don't want to sue Bioware, but yes I think this is definitely a case of where they didn't deliver what they promised. I'll just stop buying their products. There's always Bethesda...

ROFL... Bethesda...   Remember 'Radiant AI'.   ROFL... 

[deity]

From a legal standpoint there could be a case, I notice, that the OP in the first post, said no action should be considered taken until after PAX... The rest of the post just lists the possibilities.

Now I don't know US law, but in Danish law there are §§ about false marketing, and several companies have gotten in trouble because of false claims about their product on the internet a.s.o. (one of them being Apple). In Denmark we also have a institution separate from the civil courts that takes these cases, when consumers complain.

I read the initial post, as a possibility and what the base could be for a lawsuit, not as an actual petition for supporters as such..

You may or may not agree with the OP... but the laws are there!

[Da Don Giovanni]

deity wrote...

From a legal standpoint there could be a case, I notice, that the OP in the first post, said no action should be considered taken until after PAX... The rest of the post just lists the possibilities.

Now I don't know US law, but in Danish law there are §§ about false marketing, and several companies have gotten in trouble because of false claims about their product on the internet a.s.o. (one of them being Apple). In Denmark we also have a institution separate from the civil courts that takes these cases, when consumers complain.

I read the initial post, as a possibility and what the base could be for a lawsuit, not as an actual petition for supporters as such..

You may or may not agree with the OP... but the laws are there!

Thank you, send me hate mail all you want, doesn't change the fact.

[Da Don Giovanni]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

not from the US, but I wish you good luck

I'm dead serious, this is clear cut False Advertising and such is regulated by the FTC and is punishable by law.

I agree

We both agree.

[jfruelas521]

Honestly, I think you would lose that case but if you go through with it EA and Bioware would get a lot of bad press. Maybe that is one of your goals but I find that to be a bit mean spirited.

[Trentgamer]

I don't think this would ever stick and besides, I don't want to see BioWare shut down because of some stupid legal bs...however, I would like BioWare to see that their fans are not happy with their product and thus probably won't make the type of sales anymore that they are used to. The only way to beat something like this is to talk with your wallet. Anyone who would take a company to court over a video game ending really has some wacked out priorities imo.

[GhengisTom]

While I understand some people feel that they were lied to, misled, or are a victim of false advertising, I do not feel this way. And I am one of those that is holding the line for an alternate/extended ending for all of the plothole reasons.

I kept myself away from as much media as possible before finishing the game for myself simply because I don't like spoilers. So while I do understand the feelings, I won't be a part of any legal action that may be taken.

[clos]

Well, this is something Bioware would bring upon themselves if they don't fix their product for free.

[Elvwood]

You would have to sue every company that usues advertizing to lure comsumers to buy their products
Start with the creator of Fable then move to beauty products and then Mens products like Axe
I sure as hell don't have women wanting to tear my clothes off if I wear it.
Don't even get me started on Drug companies
The list goes on but you get the point.

[Can0fCorn]

If any of us are serious about sueing (lol), you CANNOT use these forums as a medium of communication. Bioware reads every post in threads like these.

[Judah Ben Hur]

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

Silveralen wrote...

Judah Ben Hur wrote...

Silveralen wrote...

Uh..... Anyone who thinks you can write a clause into a software agreement that removes any responsibility for false advertising and have it stand up in court doesn't know a thing about contract law. Those sort of passages can be overturned by a judge.

Again though, purely hypothetical. The absolute best case scenario with legal action is a refund which we already have the option of receiving. You gain nothing by doing this.

I know that this is the internet, but you really don't need to make unqualified, categorically dismissive statements.

Again, people are reading things into what I'm saying that I never said. It isn't a waiver of legal action. It's a declaration that you accept the product as it is.

As an aside, what was contracted for wasn't for a diverse set of endings. We bought a game. I don't think one would be able to successfully argue that the quotes we see above are advertising.A plaintiff would have a tough time asserting that he would not have purchased the game if, for instance Bioware had never commented on the ending.

In any case, the use of words like "diverse," etc., I think they're more like "puffery" than anything.

I'm pointing out the licenscing agreement alone in no way was enough to justify a case of false advertising. As an example, a prenup, which expiclity states what parties receive in the event of a divorce can be nullified completely in certain situations (abuse and attempted murder being the most likely). When laws are violated, contracts can and often are nullified, even the contract gave explict or implied consent for the violation of the law.

Contracts, no matter what they state, never allow a party to violate the law and escape responsibility from it.

You guys can send me Death Threats all day, it doesn't change the fact that BioWare, whether it be Casey, Mike, Mac, or Dr. Muyzka, the fact is they lied to the public about a product they were selling. Said product was NOT what they said it would be, and in fact it was the exact opposite, had we of known how the endings were gonna be, we would have NOT bought the game.

This means, pure and simple; False Advertising on BioWare's part.

Getting it in front of a FTC judge is hard, because it costs money and time, months and months, but if we did get it in court, we would win. If that means an official apology from BioWare/EA and full refund, GREAT, DLC that fixes the on disc ending, GREAT, fines and business sanctions on EA, GREAT, and if nothing but a rule in our favor, GREAT, and if we lose, then it would just prove that A) The court doesn't understand the ME series and how bad the last 10minutes truly is and That EA is so big and so hell bent on making money that they have Zero concern for the consumer, but they have 100% concern for their bank statement.

Okay, grandmaster of hyperbole, how did you translate our disagreement into death threats? 

You need to drop the colloquial meaning of the term "false advertising," or at least stop saying that you know the law. They never explicitly advertised for the ending, nor are the endings entirely undiverse. A good lawyer (and a company like EA will have a staff of them) will argue that the endings are diverse, which is an entirely subjective word.

This is the text of the Lanham Act, which governs false advertising. There are five elements (all required, or you have no case):


(1) the defendant made a false or misleading statement of fact in a
commercial advertisement about a product;

(2) the statement either deceived or had the capacity to deceive a
substantial segment of potential consumers;

(3) the deception is material, in that it is likely to influence the con-
sumer’s purchasing decision;

(4) the product is in interstate commerce; and

(5) the plaintiff has been or is likely to be injured as a result of the
statement.

1. Again, the adjectives used to describe the ending ahead of time were subjective, and open for interpretation. Let's compare Mass Effect 2's endings to Mass Effect 3. In Mass Effect 2, there were two endings with slight variations on the ending. In Mass Effect 3, there were three endings, albeit similar, with slight variations. That comparison alone makes ME3 more diverse than the first and second games.

2. Met.

3. There is absolutely no compelling evidence that millions of consumers would have failed to by the game if they had known that they had 16 slightly different endings instead of 16 completely different endings to choose from. After all, you bought a game, not an ending.

4. Met.

5. How have you been injured? Some have claimed to be depressed, but injury as a result of the game is going to be difficult to ascertain. Not only that, but proving it would be very expensive - you'd  have to hire on medical professionals to prove your depression, and that it has affected your work, personal life, etc.



The point is, "False Advertising" doesn't mean "part of the thing isn't the way that I thought it would be." Those five elements - and those alone, if we're dealing with the FTC - will win a case.

Modifié par Judah Ben Hur, 05 avril 2012 - 02:25 .

[NightHawkIL]

Tell you what, if a case is formed and brought to court you can count on $50 worth of support from me. Don't care if I ever see it back.

People have been talking a lot about setting precedent recently. Well if it comes to it let this set a precedent that a company is not above the law regarding false advertising just because it makes games instead of microwaves.

Gaming companies have been able to get away with this sort of thing for far too long - primarily because their customers are of a younger age that has never known a time prior to these shady tactics. Gamers have grown numb to such things and recognize them as commonplace. They do not realize how often these companies violate their customers rights as consumers.

[veramis]

Looking at a few pages of this thread, seems like most people are dismissing it simply because it is unpleasant. Regardless of what people here say, you know you're right, Da Don Giovanni.

[balance5050]

Good luck with that.

[Deltateam Elcor]

Dear god, the case is FLAWED, if a person is SATISFIED by the ending they have that is ALL the proof EA needs to shut this down.

Humanities stupidity, is what law is all about, the best way to exploit it.

[spyridontrilogy]

I still don't understand. In all the time spent complaining on BSN, all of these litigious types could have contacted a lawyer already. Why aren't they again?

[veramis]

spyridontrilogy wrote...

I still don't understand. In all the time spent complaining on BSN, all of these litigious types could have contacted a lawyer already. Why aren't they again?

Because in your perfect world good always prevails. If something ought to be done, well by gum someone would've done it already.

[NightHawkIL]

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

Dear god, the case is FLAWED, if a person is SATISFIED by the ending they have that is ALL the proof EA needs to shut this down.

Humanities stupidity, is what law is all about, the best way to exploit it.

Not true. You can be satisfied with a product even if false advertizing was used to promote it. False advertizing and customer satisfaction are two seperate things. False advertizing is illegal regardless.

That said, I doubt a case would be won, and if it was I believe the expenses would be more than the payout. Even so, it would give pause to companies in the future that were considering similar corrupt tactics - that they may no longer go unnoticed. My interest is in improving the future of gaming, not making people pay for the mistakes of the past.

[spyridontrilogy]

veramis wrote...

spyridontrilogy wrote...

I still don't understand. In all the time spent complaining on BSN, all of these litigious types could have contacted a lawyer already. Why aren't they again?

Because in your perfect world good always prevails. If something ought to be done, well by gum someone would've done it already.

My perfect world?  I think you're misunderstanding me.  I think this entire lawsuit idea is ridiculous.  What I'm getting at is, instead of talking about it, do it.

[Disciple888]

i would love for this to happen

[Caz Tirin]

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

Dear god, the case is FLAWED, if a person is SATISFIED by the ending they have that is ALL the proof EA needs to shut this down.

Humanities stupidity, is what law is all about, the best way to exploit it.

You don't really understand the laws governing false advertisement.  It doesn't matter if some random person is satisfied.  If the company stated they would be delivering a product with specific features and then the product has none of those features, that's false advertisement.

I'm also shocked and saddened to see all the people saying "it doesn't matter" or "wait until they say something" or any number of other apathy inspired replies.  This is why the game industry keeps puking out crap over and over.  If we, the gamers, don't stand up and say we won't take it, guess what?  We're gonna have to keep taking it.

Just because it's a game doesn't trivialize its value as a product.  It doesn't exempt it from the laws.  BioWare and EA are businesses and therefore subject to the laws that have been created to safeguard customers against foul business practices.

I would love to admit I'm a gamer to people.  But with peers like what I see in this thread that are just bending over and taking it, I will remain embarassed to associate myself with such a crowd.