245 réponses à ce sujet

[Naturalus]

VoodooDrackus wrote...
Joker would not know what choices Shepard needed to make. No one knew. Nor would he know what the beam coming after him would end up doing.

However, you are correct, Joker is motivated to protect the ship because of EDI.

When the beam hit Shepard directly and he/she got up off the ground, the chatter on the comms was that no one made it to the beam, that the entire force was wiped out. They were all falling back. Also Harbinger is taking off as you wake up which lets Joker be able to swoop in without any major trouble.
Joker may very well have broken off and come to find you and/or your companions and then make a run for it assuming that all was lost.

If you talked with Joker at some point in the game he will tell you that if he would have listened to you and evacuated that maybe you wouldn't have ended up dead at the beginning of Mass Effect 2. That has weighed heavily on him. That is a heavy motivator to try and rescue anyone left on the ground.

Since you are essentially the only hope anyone has and you were no where to be found when he swooped in. You were barely functioning as it was. He probably assumed the worst and got the hell out of there.

yes it is my speculation, but to me it makes the most sense. Imagine being behind Shepard when the beam hits him/her directly knocking them to the ground or appearing to have annihilated them, what would you think? You would probably think that this was the only person that knew what needed to be done and that they are gone, run like hell so you are not next.
In my playthroughs my companions are no where to be found, they are not near me, they are not among any of the dead corpses scattered around. So they may have already went running back so that Harbinger doesn't wipe them out as well.

Finally some good post.

Thats what I am trying to say Joker had motivation to try save EDI and run. Even if running was desparate attempt he was motivated to try it.

Lore from ME2 says that "EDI also gains access to "Anti-Reaper Algorithms" later in the game, and
states that she devotes significant processing power to analyzing them.
When pressed on this subject by Shepard as to how she could hope to
combat beings millions of years more advanced, she reveals that she was
in part designed by technology gained from Sovereign's remains and thus,
at least partially, based on Reaper technology herself."

This part of story tells from ME2 that EDI is partly based on reapers tech. This alone explains why synthetic life killing ending harms Normandy.

I am also trying to say that EDI can analyze crusible beam being harmful to hear same moment Shepard lauch Crusible. There is lore about her being capably of tasks for electronic warfare and understanding reaper tech better than many others in ME lore becouse she is partly reaper herself.

All in all Normandy running scene in synthetic life killing ending dosent go against the story fundamentals. Thats what am trying to say.

[CroGamer002]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

only way it makes sense is, if Joker is a coward

But doesn't explain how rest of my crew on Earth got on Normandy.

And that nobody on Normandy decided to remove Joker from his post do to disobeying orders and leaving battle.

[Major Durza]

Provo_101 wrote...

Yeah, no one other than Shepard knows jack about the Skittles beam. Sorry.

Never heard it called the Skittles beam before, that's awesome.

[Wang Lightning]

While I feel that the ending cinematics were very dramatic and well done (Music was top notch, animation and camera angles were fantastic, as usual, etc.) They just made very little sense in the context of the rest of the game. This is one of many examples of that.

I REALLY wish there was some explanation, even a 5 second clip of Hacket saying "EVERYONE BACK INTO THE RELAY OH SHI-".

Sadly, there isn't. Hence all the petitions and whatnot. I'm glad they plan to elaborate a bit on the endings. It wouldn't take much.
This is already a gem of a game, but a few extra minutes of gameplay tacked on at the end would make this series a genuine masterpiece.

[Naturalus]

Wang Lightning wrote...

While I feel that the ending cinematics were very dramatic and well done (Music was top notch, animation and camera angles were fantastic, as usual, etc.) They just made very little sense in the context of the rest of the game. This is one of many examples of that.

I REALLY wish there was some explanation, even a 5 second clip of Hacket saying "EVERYONE BACK INTO THE RELAY OH SHI-".

Sadly, there isn't. Hence all the petitions and whatnot. I'm glad they plan to elaborate a bit on the endings. It wouldn't take much.
This is already a gem of a game, but a few extra minutes of gameplay tacked on at the end would make this series a genuine masterpiece.

This I could agree ending was technically very well done with dramatic camera views and graphics and music. It was so dramatic that I almost had tears in eyes.

Some parts of the endings could have needed more explanation. They should have really add some more radio chatter or something to explain things bit more so player could follow the story of ending better and reason why Normandy runs from combat in the end scene. Also explain why your last charge team members are back in Normandy in end scene.

I think most of people complains because they cannot follow what happened in the ending and there is too many gabs between end scene and what happened in the story. I do not have an problem with sad ending where Shepard dies I knew they needed to tie up whole story and end trilogy. They could not make ending where some players could continue playing and others not.

[Hunter_Wolf]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

This.

[Joccaren]

The scene makes no sense. Its just Space Magic.

[Flidget]

To be fair, there's some fudging possible given the vague time-line of the ending.

If Hackett can radio Shep to say the Crucible isn't doing anything, which means that he knows Shep's up there, Shep's team probably knows Shep's up there too.

Shep passes out after that point. Maybe Shep's out long enough that Joker, with maybe some help from Cortez, had enough time to round everyone up, get them on the Normandy and attempt to find some other way to board the Citadel and join up with Shep?

And then everything starts blowing up so they have to skedaddle.

[Fenderbaum]

Two major flaws here with this line of thought as have been stated...

Anderson says he just needs 'one person' to get to the citadel....so even if Shep's team was decimated, Harbinger was leaving...no one else from your squad could make a run for it? (who didn't come with you on the final charge)

Secondly, again as has been stated, the arms open, so 'everyone' knows 'someone' made it....

[ronnok]

so... how did people that are supposed to be with me right before the run to the beam get on the normandy anyway. (and just because i know its probobly been said before, Yes reading is hard)

[Avatar231278]

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

And Joker knows that from where?

Was it written on mass driver slug, that landed in Jokers lap somehow?

[xxLDZxx]

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

How do they know what kind of color is doing what?
How dose EDI know what shepard is doing on the citadel and how dose she know that the red beam is destroying syntetics?

[legion999]

EDI is the Normandy if she doesn't want to go she won't go. Also if I had talked to her and as a result she turned off her self preservation (I think she does something along those lines may be a bit different) I'm fairly sure she would refuse to leave. If she didn't want Jeff to panic she may not even tell him simply that she loves him just before the wave hits. Hell even if EDI told Jeff, he's not going to have enough time to react let alone get to the relay, plot a course and use it. And yeah he used the relay there wouldn't be a garden planet that near Earth (which to me seems to be either Zorya or Aite). Finally you're assuming Jeff would run away when he's proven to be calm and courageous. And that our squadmates and LI would let him abandon you.

Good lord how are they going to explain all this? The entire ending is just a fustercluck.

[paul2e]

I'm not convinced Joker is actually outrunning the relay explosion inside the relay myself, but either way it doesn't clear up the plotholes.

So Joker makes it to the Mass Relay, jumps and is outrunning the exploding relay, which like many other people have said means he deserted the fight but still managed to pick up his sex bot and other members of the crewe before heading for the Relay.

Or maybe the Normandy is not in the Relay, but just trying to get away from the exploding relay at FTL speed. Which opens up the exploding relays kill everyone in the Galaxy plot hole, and yet Joker still managed to find time to pick everyone up. If the exploding Relays don't kill everyone why was the Normandy damaged when the Blue and Green coloured beams hit?

Or maybe it was Space Magic.

[likta_]

paul2e wrote...

I'm not convinced Joker is actually outrunning the relay explosion inside the relay myself, but either way it doesn't clear up the plotholes.

So Joker makes it to the Mass Relay, jumps and is outrunning the exploding relay, which like many other people have said means he deserted the fight but still managed to pick up his sex bot and other members of the crewe before heading for the Relay.

Or maybe the Normandy is not in the Relay, but just trying to get away from the exploding relay at FTL speed. Which opens up the exploding relays kill everyone in the Galaxy plot hole, and yet Joker still managed to find time to pick everyone up. If the exploding Relays don't kill everyone why was the Normandy damaged when the Blue and Green coloured beams hit?

Or maybe it was Space Magic.

Watch that scene again. Its a "ray" that "follows" joker, not a massive explosion. The only time it's not an explosion is when it uses a relay. And then the "shockwave" is so ridiculously fast that there is no way joker could nearly outrun it with plain old FTL travel. There is no salvagable part of that scene, not a single one.

[Zaalbar]

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

The ending makes no sense.
Joker would have no knowledge at this point on what Shepard is up to on the Citadel, he would not know that the multicolored magic explosions are about to happen. Not to mention there is no way for Joker to know that any of these magic effects could effect EDI. Joker simply takes the Normandy for no apparent reason out of the war zone and leaves the fleet and Shepard behind with one exception, Joker apparently had time to send a shuttle to round up your trusting companions before they all agreed to get out of dodge.

There is no reason why the magic shockwave should even harm the Normandy, Control only effects the Reapers, Synthesis only effect DNA (Begging the question if EDI is part of the Normandy as she claims to be in the previous game, shouldn't the Normandy have turned into a Bio-Synthetic Ship or something) and then there is Destroy which is I suppose could have effected the Normandy, but to my knowledge Magic Red Explosion only kills Synthetics... Not sure how this effects the Normandy's Structure unless of cause EDI is the Normandy and I suppose that explains the Normandy coming apart, "BUT WAIT!" why didn't the Normandy turn into a Bio-Synthetic ship in the synthesis shockwave???

Of cause its possible that the magic explosion only effects the Normandy's structure while the ship travels at FTL meaning if the Normandy had stayed at earth the ship would have remained intact. But then Joker would have known how shockwaves effect ships at FTL given that he's supposed to be the best dam pilot in the alliance.
It is strange that Joker would have performed such a brainless tactic given his experience as a pilot.

And If this whole scenario turns out to be a dream playing out in Shepard's head then this scene doesn't make much sense as I really don't see how Shepard dreaming of his crew stranded on some jungle planet can embody hope. It would make more sense if Shepard new Joker and his squad had abandoned him and out of anger and disapointment he dreams of them stranded on that jungle island from "LOST" about to get torn limb from limb by evil smoke monster and a terrible contrived ending. (Shep)"That'll teach those traiterous bosh'tets for abandoning the fight"

Of cause its also very possible the ending is the result of crappy writing because, 1 they ran out of budget, 2 they ran out ot time and were forced to tack on a crappy ending or 3 this is yet another stunt on the part of EA to make players invested as they soon announce a string of DLC's that give us the multi branching ending we were promised to begin with... For a price of cause.

Modifié par zaalbar76, 04 avril 2012 - 10:09 .

[derpy202]

Why does the normandy explode and crash land? If it made sense the shockwave would just pass through the ship like we see on earth, wiping out reaper/synthetics, but leaving everything else intact.

You don't see alliance ships exploding.. Plus there is no way for Joker to know in the first place.

You're grasping at non-existant emergency induction ports here.

[res27772]

res27772 wrote...

Well, this scene is well after the beam supposedly decimates the team storming the Citadel, so in that moment the crew of the Normandy may 'assume' they've lost and make the decision to get the hell out of dodge - they'd have no way of knowing Shepard is actually alive on the Citadel doing his/her thing (providing the stuff on the Citadel is even real - if it's NOT then they'd think he/she is dead)... and remember, a full retreat was ordered after the team got decimated.

Hmmm, I've just noticed the tiny flaw in my logic... how do the squad members with me end up on the Normandy if the team was decimated... Oh well.

[Dire Wombat]

Joker was running because he didn't want to be late for the godawful Adam and Eve metaphor.

Duh. =P

Modifié par Dire Wombat, 04 avril 2012 - 10:11 .

[Elyiia]

Even if EDI somehow managed to analyze the beam AND Joker decided to run in order to save EDI the beam goes FASTER than ships going in the relays. So Joker would have had to get to the relay at a faster speed than the relay allows ships to fly. If he can do that, why use the relays in the first place?

[campozx6]

well, I still believe that the last run didn't really happen. I played the game twice. First time I had Edi and Javik with, Joker, liara and Javik climbs out of normandy. Second time I had Edi and James with me on the last run. Joker, Liara and James climbs out... See a Pattern? how come the last one off the normandy must be one that was with you just before the laser hits?

[campozx6]

Liara was LI... and I had destroy as option both times...

[DJBare]

In my play through, EDI states quite clearly she would lay down her life to protect others, I'm pretty sure she was not just talking about Joker, EDI has control of most of Normandy's functions and unshackled, I am certain she would have prevented Joker from leaving while Shepard and squad were fighting for their lives.

My speculation, after all, that's what the OP is doing, speculation.

[aTrueFool]

The beam/shock wave travels faster then light, right?

So how can Joker see it before it gets to the Normandy?

[Beti88]

So Joker leaves Shepard, all the crew, the hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of troops, the whole armada, Earth and Humanity itself to die, just to save a sexbot?

I
DON'T
THINK
SO