245 réponses à ce sujet

[Baihu1983]

Naturalus wrote...

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

Maybe EDI analyzed energy beam with Normandy sensors before it hits and started to tell Joker that this is goodbye or tells Joker, that beam harms Normandy. Joker refuse for this because of his love for EDI and runs to save her.

Try harder, ending is a mess end of.

[shinobi602]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

Easy, Joker and Shepard are telepathically linked.

[Ziggeh]

aTrueFool wrote...

The beam/shock wave travels faster then light, right?

So how can Joker see it before it gets to the Normandy?

It's speed is relative to the observer. It appears to travel at a similar speed whether you're watching it from the ground or from a point outside the galaxy.

Either that or it's fiction and requires some suspension of disbelief.

[Ziggeh]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

Maybe he's just running away from the giant space beam. Seems entirely sensible to me. 

[Candidate 88766]

My assumption was that the fleets around Earth fled the system when they saw the Crucible begin to activate: no-one actually knows what it does, and seeing it begin to activate was probably enough reason for a lot of the ships to turn tail and get as far away from it as possible. A similar situation to the ships fleeing from the Death Star in Star Wars IV and VI - there's nothing more they can do once the Crucible begins to activate, and for all they know everything in the system is about to get vaporized. Given the speed of FTL travel, the Normandy could've reach the Relay in no time at all.

Its not a great explanation, and doesn't make sense if you pick control (the shockwave would take hours, if not days, to reach the Relay) but it works for me. Rather than believing that Joker fled at the first sign of trouble, I prefer to believe that he was one of the last to leave.

[MattFini]

This thread proves ONCE AGAIN that there is absolutely no logical defense of that final cut scene without bringing a whole wheelbarrow of speculation and guesses to the table.

[Gerudan]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

He doesn't know anything and he doesn't have time to pickup all the team members (including the ones at the sky lift). 

It's just stupd³ to bring some action scene there, that doesn't make any sense. 

[rachellouise]

the other team members could have got on the normandy whilst we are inside. Shepard doesn't choose to do anything immediately upon entering, we have to walk up, have the conversations with anderson + TIM, then we're there for a bit before going up, and talking, again, this time with the catalyst.

Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean other things can't be going on at the same time

[tiger-tron]

Face it guys, there is no logical explanation as to why Joker decided to fly the Normandy off Earth with your squad who magically teleported on there after the brief Harbinger attack.

[Ziggeh]

MattFini wrote...

This thread proves ONCE AGAIN that there is absolutely no logical defense of that final cut scene without bringing a whole wheelbarrow of speculation and guesses to the table.

There are a lot of things wrong with the ending, granted, but I strongly disagree with the idea that everything must be laid out in clear exacting terms lest anyone be left confused. Much can be simply implied. "Why is he running away from the giant expanding spaceship crashing beam?"  for example, is not one of the many questions I was left with. 

How the crew got there and how they got to an inhabited world, admittedly were.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 04 avril 2012 - 12:32 .

[likta_]

Ziggeh wrote...

MattFini wrote...

This thread proves ONCE AGAIN that there is absolutely no logical defense of that final cut scene without bringing a whole wheelbarrow of speculation and guesses to the table.

There are a lot of things wrong with the ending, granted, but I strongly disagree with the idea that everything must be laid out in clear exacting terms lest anyone be left confused. What you're calling speculation I feel is implied. "Why is he running away from the giant expanding spaceship crashing beam?"  for example, is not one of the many questions I was left with. 

How the crew got there and how they got to an inhabited world, admittedly were.

We didn't see any spaceship blowing up except for the normandy, so we don't know that it is a spaceship crashing beam. And Joker would have no time to react anyway with the ridiculous speed the beam / explosion has.

[Ziggeh]

likta_ wrote...

We didn't see any spaceship blowing up except for the normandy, so we don't know that it is a spaceship crashing beam. And Joker would have no time to react anyway with the ridiculous speed the beam / explosion has.

As I say, we don't need to see everything. We know it damages ships, it damaged the normandy, it's entirely reasonable, given the number of the things floating about to assume it might happen to others, and as I say, even if it were not seen, giant scary space beam. Who waits for that to wash over them to see what happens?

And also as I say, the speed of the beam is inconsistent. It moves at the speed of plot development.

[InMyOwnImage]

tiger-tron wrote...

Face it guys, there is no logical explanation as to why Joker decided to fly the Normandy off Earth with your squad who magically teleported on there after the brief Harbinger attack.

This.

Eaven if you presume Joker simply saw the Crucible blast and freaked out, that's not in character. There's no way he'd chicken out and leave Shepard to an unknown fate. I mean, he charged the Collector Base, faced down Sovereign and participated in the Battle for Earth against the Reaper Armada, for crying out loud! A brightly coloured explosion of unknown origin shouldn't frighten him into retreat.

[Beti88]

Ziggeh wrote...

"Why is he running away from the giant expanding spaceship crashing beam?"  for example, is not one of the many questions I was left with.

Really? The Relay is in the outskirts of the Sol System, did Joker had a vision that there will be some giant magical shockwave that he can only evade by leaving every-bloody-body behind to die?

[Ziggeh]

InMyOwnImage wrote...

A brightly coloured explosion of unknown origin shouldn't frighten him into retreat.

He knows the origin, it's from the crucible, which is a weapon beyond the understanding of current technology designed to combat a race of spacegoing aliens of enormous power. Honestly, it'd be pretty daft to take it in the face and hope you come out smiling.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 04 avril 2012 - 12:42 .

[Ziggeh]

Beti88 wrote...
Really? The Relay is in the outskirts of the Sol System, did Joker had a vision that there will be some giant magical shockwave that he can only evade by leaving every-bloody-body behind to die?

I'm not certain why the assumption is that they went through the relay. So no, that's not a question I'm struggling with myself.

[YouHaveAProblem]

Are we even 100% sure that the epilogue planet isn't earth?

[Ziggeh]

YouHaveAProblem wrote...

Are we even 100% sure that the epilogue planet isn't earth?

That's a lot of moons for earth.

[Beti88]

YouHaveAProblem wrote...

Are we even 100% sure that the epilogue planet isn't earth?

They were in FTL. Be at Earth -> Go FTL -> Crash land on Earth

That's BS

Ziggeh wrote...

I'm not certain why the assumption is that they went through the relay.

Um... because they were in FTL?

[InMyOwnImage]

Ziggeh wrote...

InMyOwnImage wrote...

A brightly coloured explosion of unknown origin shouldn't frighten him into retreat.

He knows the origin, it's from the crucible, which is a weapon beyond the understanding of current technology designed to combat a race of spacegoing aliens of enormous power. Honestly, it'd be pretty daft to take it in the face and hope you come out smiling.

Fair enough. But every other ship out there seemed fine with it. One way or the other, Joker would not run. He wanted to stay at the Collector Base, in the worst ending of 2, for Shepard. I think that proves he would never run without trying to help.

[Naturalus]

InMyOwnImage wrote...
This.

Eaven if you presume Joker simply saw the Crucible blast and freaked out, that's not in character. There's no way he'd chicken out and leave Shepard to an unknown fate. I mean, he charged the Collector Base, faced down Sovereign and participated in the Battle for Earth against the Reaper Armada, for crying out loud! A brightly coloured explosion of unknown origin shouldn't frighten him into retreat.

I agree that it is problem is that there wasen't even one line conversation or content explaining why Normandy escaped after Crusible was activated. Scene were Shepard activated crusible and Normandy escaping did not tie up together.

Even one line were Joker or EDI says normandy is partly reaper tech we need to Escape or Crash land on earth to save the Normandy crew would have made the trick and tie up scenes and story together in undestable way.

[jds1bio]

Oh boy. Everything from the point Anderson gives out forward is Shepard losing consciousness into a nightmare. In each scenario, Shepard imagines his/her "choice" playing out. At the end, Shepard hopes that there is still a planet left to live on, and the visions of the Normandy and Gilligan's planet are his/her hopes that the squadmates survive the outcome of his "choice".

[BrotherlyTech]

daecath wrote...

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

Slight problem with your theory. Unless Joker has suddenly developed psychic powers, all he's going to know is that there is a red, blue, or green light coming from the crucible. He won't have the slightest clue what those lights mean, since he wasn't there with the star-child.

Not to mention how fast the energy wave seems to move, Joker 's reaction time must be in the milliseconds, from seeing that beam of light, turning the ship around, and putting it into FTL all in the span of 1/100th of a second, which would be NEEDED for him to be able to be ahead of the energy wave.  I don't have a link to it right now, but someone actually did the math somewhere showing how early Joker would have had to leave the battlefield to be able to be far enough ahead of the energy wave, in relation to the fact that they land on some garden world, I don't remember it exactly, but it came out to he would have had to leave almost immediately after releasing the shuttle to drop the group off on Earth.

EDIT: I should mention the calculations were done using the speed of light as a reference point. Since we have no hard numbers on the actual FTL speeds,

Modifié par BrotherlyTech, 04 avril 2012 - 12:57 .

[YouHaveAProblem]

Ziggeh wrote...

YouHaveAProblem wrote...

Are we even 100% sure that the epilogue planet isn't earth?

That's a lot of moons for earth.

 
Haven't studied the ending, but if there are several moons, then I guess that's a wrap!

Beti88 wrote...

YouHaveAProblem wrote...

Are we even 100% sure that the epilogue planet isn't earth?

They were in FTL. Be at Earth -> Go FTL -> Crash land on Earth

That's BS

Ziggeh wrote...

I'm not certain why the assumption is that they went through the relay.

Um... because they were in FTL?

Every major ship, including the Normandy, and apparantly even the shuttles (!!) can jump at FTL speeds. The relays are only used for crossings of MASSIVE distances (hundreds or thousands of light years).

Modifié par YouHaveAProblem, 04 avril 2012 - 12:55 .

[derpy202]

The planet the normandy crash lands on is 100% not earth. You see the sky and theres like 2 or 3 moons.