245 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

Beti88 wrote... 
Um... because they were in FTL?

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/FTL

I would point you specifically to the line "is a method of traveling faster than the speed of light which does not involve the use of mass relays. "

Modifié par Ziggeh, 04 avril 2012 - 12:57 .

[Nogthwai]

There are many problems with this, if you try to explain it in a rational way. Another bit that is never cleared is why Joker is in the Mass Relay. He cannot be in FTL, else he would not know what was happening anyway (ME is very clear on this, you have no faster than light sensors or anything like this). So if he was in FTL, running towards charon (Which takes 5 Minutes, if the Normandy SR2 can indeed fly at 24ly/day) he cannot be aware that anything is happening at all, nobody onboard the Normandy knows what Shepard is doing. They'd also never see the explosions, until much much later.  

If he only starts to fly once he sees the citadel is exploding, he's already way too late. The "colour" explosions move much much faster than light as well (see last video) so by the time Joker would actually see the wave as portrayed in the video he'd already have been hit 2 minutes ago. There is simply no way to make it fit, unless he has a time machine in his pocket.

I'd chalk it up to space magic.

Modifié par Nogthwai, 04 avril 2012 - 12:59 .

[Mitra]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

Joker is Nostradamus!

[Ziggeh]

InMyOwnImage wrote...
Fair enough. But every other ship out there seemed fine with it. One way or the other, Joker would not run. He wanted to stay at the Collector Base, in the worst ending of 2, for Shepard. I think that proves he would never run without trying to help.

What's our basis for believing everyone else is cool with taking giant mass effect fields in the face? And wanting to stay and standing in front of an oncoming storm are different things.

[Ziggeh]

Nogthwai wrote...

If he only starts to fly once he sees the citadel is exploding, he's already way too late. The "colour" explosions move much much faster than light as well (see last video) so by the time Joker would actually see the wave as portrayed in the video he'd already have been hit 2 minutes ago. There is simply no way to make it fit, unless he has a time machine in his pocket.

Again, it moves at the speed of plot. We see it move in a wave across earth, then travel several orders of magnitude faster than light.

[Stalker]

Then you could also tell me how they could survive when hit in FTL-speed!

If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation.

[Daniel_N7]

DinoSteve wrote...

only way it makes sense is, if Joker is a coward

This! Now remember Joker kickin'it in the end of ME2, flying through the Omega 4 relay, doing all those crazy acrobatics with the Normandy, the man has b***** of steel, he's definitely not a coward. Plus all your crew bails out on you and leaves you to die on the battlefield? wt...

I refuse this garbage as the ending of my Shepard's story. As far as I'm concerned, my Shepard's story remains untold. And will remain so until BioWare fixes this mess of an ending.

[Sajuukcor76]

I viewed it as: Shep gets blown away and Hammer is all but destroyed. General ground force retreat is called, during which evac shuttles carry remaining forces back to Sword/Shield/Normandy. Shep meanwhile fires the Crucible. As the relays explode Joker jumps into FTL to try to get away from the explosion, since he's saw the effects before.

But what that means:
1) The energy release by the relay destroys the star system, since if the energy effect was enough to cripple the Normandy at FTL speeds and at that distance. So everyone there that didn't FTL away is *BLAM*
2) They crash on a rogue planet outside a solar system which is fully capable of support complex life and has a major near by light source.

[EricHVela]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

This.

Joker wouldn't let Shep take EDI on the mission if he was so in love with her to run before the Citadel did its rainbow magic.

[Slayer299]

I'm certain someone is going to bring up those thermal pipes you can have installed in engineering are the reason why the Normandy crew as a whole was able to survive deadly radiation poisoning.

[Ziggeh]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Then you could also tell me how they could survive when hit in FTL-speed!

If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation.

Possibly space magic, which is to say we have no idea what the beam actually does, but could conclude that it somehow collapses the field in a way that didn't result in radiation deaths. That's pushing it a bit, but hey, so is the field in general.
That said, I'd say the actual answer is plot armour. While I appreciate it's an in universe law, being in the codex and all, it's not as if this is very hard sci fi. I think it's reasonable for such things to be hand waved for the sake of story. 

[Vhalkyrie]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Then you could also tell me how they could survive when hit in FTL-speed!

If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation.

Yes.  If Joker decided to run for the relay when the citadel was breaking apart, it would be too late.  But even if he did, if the Normandy was in transit when the field collapsed, they land on Gilligan's Planet with radiation sickness, if they didn't die of it outright.

[Quietness]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Then you could also tell me how they could survive when hit in FTL-speed!

If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation.

Yes.  If Joker decided to run for the relay when the citadel was breaking apart, it would be too late.  But even if he did, if the Normandy was in transit when the field collapsed, they land on Gilligan's Planet with radiation sickness, if they didn't die of it outright.

Actually unfortunately the way Cherenkov Radiation works, they are all killed immediately.

[InMyOwnImage]

Ziggeh wrote...

InMyOwnImage wrote...
Fair enough. But every other ship out there seemed fine with it. One way or the other, Joker would not run. He wanted to stay at the Collector Base, in the worst ending of 2, for Shepard. I think that proves he would never run without trying to help.

What's our basis for believing everyone else is cool with taking giant mass effect fields in the face? And wanting to stay and standing in front of an oncoming storm are different things.

My basis is that you don't see anyone else fleeing. Could simply be because of the horribly inconsistent ending, but since that is what is shown, I presume it as proof.

Plus, wanting to stay at the Collector Base was certain death, no two ways about it. Nobody really knew what the Crucible Blast would do.

[Soaringeagle78]

1) Let's say that's true: why would all my crew abandon me?
2) Lots of speculation for everybody!

[frylock23]

DinoSteve wrote...

only way it makes sense is, if Joker is a coward

And after the ending of ME2, that doesn't even make any sense ... I would think the a coward would never have done the things Joker pulled off at the end of ME2. Certainly you would have thought the whole suicide mission would have actually become one because who would have stayed around that long with such a huge explosion imminent? Or been able to man up enough to survive going through the Omega relay in the first place?

[Shared]

Another thing, i seriously doubt Liara had allowed joker to run to save his robogirl, at the expense of her shepard.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Still doesn't make sense because Joker would have no way of knowing that the mysterious red blast would take EDI out. 

[sargon1986]

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

Yeah, the scene appears also if you choose synthesis and  control... Great explanation. So much for that.

[MadRabbit999]

I always thought because everyone in the fleet can see the Mass Relays are "charging up" it does not happen in the lapse of 10 sec, but maybe 10+ minutes before it becomes evident.

At this point Joker knows that the whole system is screwed (Because he knows Mass Relays explosions causes black holes), so he tries to save the rest of the Normandy and its crew instead of dying while banging his head against a wall made of Reapers.

It could also be possible that the Normandy was called (By an admiral which override Joker's personal feelings for Shepard)  to retreat due to the imminent relay explosion.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 04 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[Stalker]

Quietness wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Then you could also tell me how they could survive when hit in FTL-speed!

If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation.

Yes.  If Joker decided to run for the relay when the citadel was breaking apart, it would be too late.  But even if he did, if the Normandy was in transit when the field collapsed, they land on Gilligan's Planet with radiation sickness, if they didn't die of it outright.

Actually unfortunately the way Cherenkov Radiation works, they are all killed immediately.

I wonder so often if the writers actually check their own codex before writing something...
I mean, when you write about snapping a ship out of FTL in your fictional universe, wouldn't it be essential to check your own rules on this subject first?

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 04 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[Pandaman102]

Ziggeh wrote...

I'm not certain why the assumption is that they went through the relay. So no, that's not a question I'm struggling with myself.

Because that's how it's presented in the movie. You see the explosion, then you see the explosion reach Earth, then you see it reach the relay, then you see if spreading through the relay network, then you see it catch up with the Normandy... and then you see the Normandy crashed on a planet that's obviously not in the Sol system.

How can anyone not assume they were in the relay?

[Quietness]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Then you could also tell me how they could survive when hit in FTL-speed!

If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation.

Yes.  If Joker decided to run for the relay when the citadel was breaking apart, it would be too late.  But even if he did, if the Normandy was in transit when the field collapsed, they land on Gilligan's Planet with radiation sickness, if they didn't die of it outright.

Actually unfortunately the way Cherenkov Radiation works, they are all killed immediately.

I wonder so often if the writers actually check their own codex before writing something...
I mean, when you write about snapping a ship out of FTL in your fictional universe, wouldn't it be essential to check your own rules on this subject first?

At least it was an instant death, and they didnt break all his bones and burn him alive slowly?

[Vhalkyrie]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I always thought because everyone in the fleet can see the Mass Relays are "charging up" it does not happen in the lapse of 10 sec, but maybe 10+ minutes before it becomes evident.

At this point Joker knows that the whole system is screwed (Because he knows Mass Relays explosions causes black holes), so he tries to save the rest of the Normandy and its crew instead of dying while banging his head against a wall made of Reapers.

It could also be possible that the Normandy was called (By an admiral which override Joker's personal feelings for Shepard)  to retreat due to the imminent relay explosion.

That still wouldn't make sense because hopping from one mass relay that is exploding just lands you at another mass relay that is exploding.

I don't think Joker would follow orders in this instant.  He followed Shepard to Cerberus in ME2, so he follows Shepard above all others.

Also, if that leaves time for the Alliance Fleet and Normandy to flee, well, then so can the Reapers.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 04 avril 2012 - 01:51 .

[TheGreenAlloy]

Naturalus wrote...
 They could not make ending where some players could continue playing and others not.

Yeah, yeah they could.