245 réponses à ce sujet

[2papercuts]

Naturalus wrote...

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

Maybe EDI analyzed energy beam with Normandy sensors before it hits and started to tell Joker that this is goodbye or tells Joker, that beam harms Normandy. Joker refuse for this because of his love for EDI and runs to save her.

Huh, that's a reach

Why wouldn't reapers leave also

And plus EDI can survive in any ending so it makes no sense anyway

[Vhalkyrie]

Naturalus wrote...
 They could not make ending where some players could continue playing and others not.

You do know there is a scenario where Shepard dies at the Collector Base in ME2, right?  Basically don't do any loyalty missions, don't talk to anyone, don't upgrade the Normandy.  Shepard dies due to being a crappy commander.  You don't get an import for ME3 in this scenario.

[MadRabbit999]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I always thought because everyone in the fleet can see the Mass Relays are "charging up" it does not happen in the lapse of 10 sec, but maybe 10+ minutes before it becomes evident.

At this point Joker knows that the whole system is screwed (Because he knows Mass Relays explosions causes black holes), so he tries to save the rest of the Normandy and its crew instead of dying while banging his head against a wall made of Reapers.

It could also be possible that the Normandy was called (By an admiral which override Joker's personal feelings for Shepard)  to retreat due to the imminent relay explosion.

That still wouldn't make sense because hopping from one mass relay that is exploding just lands you at another mass relay that is exploding.

I don't think Joker would follow orders in this instant.  He followed Shepard to Cerberus in ME2, so he follows Shepard above all others.

Admiral: Ground team all dead, the Relays are about to explode, make a run for it

Joker: I am not leaving Shepard's behind!

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus: Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper, let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this ship!

Joker reclutant, decides after being quickly persuaded to make a run for the relay.

Nobody can know that this shockwave will cause the next Mass Relay to explode, it is not simultaneous, it is gradual, 1 relay nework connection at the time.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 04 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[OrumLeader]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

You all had to go and ask the obvious questions didn't you? 

[Ziggeh]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Because that's how it's presented in the movie. You see the explosion, then you see the explosion reach Earth, then you see it reach the relay, then you see if spreading through the relay network, then you see it catch up with the Normandy... and then you see the Normandy crashed on a planet that's obviously not in the Sol system.

How can anyone not assume they were in the relay?

The speeds are inconsistent, following narrative convenience before any kind of rules. It demands you suspend your disbelief when it comes to speed, why would this be different?

[daigakuinsei]

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

Joker also has no idea that there would be an energy beam/wave coming from the Crucible/Citadel.

[Darth Asriel]

Ok OP: how does Joker know what the bean will do? Why did he abandon Shep? How did he pick up my LI who was charging the beam with me? Why does he choose to leave his post? Has he forgot that we are in a war for all existence? Does he realize that this will be seen as dereliction of duty? If saving EDI was his concern, why is he smiling after I choose the destroy ending?

Do I need to go on?

[tobiasks]

You do realise not all of the options actually destroys synthetics, but no matter which option you pick he still flies away.

[Vhalkyrie]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I always thought because everyone in the fleet can see the Mass Relays are "charging up" it does not happen in the lapse of 10 sec, but maybe 10+ minutes before it becomes evident.

At this point Joker knows that the whole system is screwed (Because he knows Mass Relays explosions causes black holes), so he tries to save the rest of the Normandy and its crew instead of dying while banging his head against a wall made of Reapers.

It could also be possible that the Normandy was called (By an admiral which override Joker's personal feelings for Shepard)  to retreat due to the imminent relay explosion.

That still wouldn't make sense because hopping from one mass relay that is exploding just lands you at another mass relay that is exploding.

I don't think Joker would follow orders in this instant.  He followed Shepard to Cerberus in ME2, so he follows Shepard above all others.

Admiral: Ground team all dead, the Relays are about to explode, make a run for it

Joker: I am not leaving Shepard's behind!

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus: Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper, let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this ship!

Joker reclutant, decides after being quickly persuaded to make a run for the relay.

Nobody can know that this shockwave will cause the next Mass Relay to explode, it is not simultaneous, it is gradual, 1 relay nework connection at the time.

If the fleets have time to escape, so do the Reapers.

[Sohlito]

DJBare wrote...

And even if Joker did know, EDI is unshackled, she would argue to stay and help Shepard reminding Joker that emotion(his feelings for her) must not take precedent over the mission.

This.

[Aurvant]

Ziggeh wrote...

Pandaman102 wrote...

Because that's how it's presented in the movie. You see the explosion, then you see the explosion reach Earth, then you see it reach the relay, then you see if spreading through the relay network, then you see it catch up with the Normandy... and then you see the Normandy crashed on a planet that's obviously not in the Sol system.

How can anyone not assume they were in the relay?

The speeds are inconsistent, following narrative convenience before any kind of rules. It demands you suspend your disbelief when it comes to speed, why would this be different?

The problem isn't really whether or not that Joker was or wasn't in the relay corridor. In the larger scheme of things that's really not that big of a detail. The problem is that Joker was even running in the first place. The initial blast from the Crucible (in any ending except vaporize) is shown to be harmless to anything but the Reapers. It cascades all over the planet and we can see that it doesn't seem to harm anything but the Reapers, and depending on the color scheme, it doesn't even "harm" them two out of three times. 

There is no reason for Joker to be running anywhere.

[Daniel_N7]

Shared wrote...

Another thing, i seriously doubt Liara had allowed joker to run to save his robogirl, at the expense of her shepard.

Yeah Liara would go full biotic on Joker's @**... ...but hey that would never happen either!

[MadRabbit999]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I always thought because everyone in the fleet can see the Mass Relays are "charging up" it does not happen in the lapse of 10 sec, but maybe 10+ minutes before it becomes evident.

At this point Joker knows that the whole system is screwed (Because he knows Mass Relays explosions causes black holes), so he tries to save the rest of the Normandy and its crew instead of dying while banging his head against a wall made of Reapers.

It could also be possible that the Normandy was called (By an admiral which override Joker's personal feelings for Shepard)  to retreat due to the imminent relay explosion.

That still wouldn't make sense because hopping from one mass relay that is exploding just lands you at another mass relay that is exploding.

I don't think Joker would follow orders in this instant.  He followed Shepard to Cerberus in ME2, so he follows Shepard above all others.

Admiral: Ground team all dead, the Relays are about to explode, make a run for it

Joker: I am not leaving Shepard's behind!

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus: Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper, let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this ship!

Joker reclutant, decides after being quickly persuaded to make a run for the relay.

Nobody can know that this shockwave will cause the next Mass Relay to explode, it is not simultaneous, it is gradual, 1 relay nework connection at the time.

If the fleets have time to escape, so do the Reapers.

Why would the reapers escape? They are either controlled by Shepard, become friendly, or blow up as the explosion which kills only syenthetics would catch up.

Beside not all fleet ships  makes it out of there in time I'd think, and the same goes for the reapers.. and even those who gets away are blown to bits. The Normandy is als othe fastes ship out there, so if anything they are the first ones capable of saving themselves.

Daniel_N7 wrote...

Shared wrote...

Another thing, i seriously doubt Liara had allowed joker to run to save his robogirl, at the expense of her shepard.

Yeah Liara would go full biotic on Joker's @**... ...but hey that would never happen either!

You keep forgetting by this point Shepard is KIA for all they know.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 04 avril 2012 - 02:30 .

[Ziggeh]

Aurvant wrote...

The problem isn't really whether or not that Joker was or wasn't in the relay corridor. In the larger scheme of things that's really not that big of a detail. The problem is that Joker was even running in the first place. The initial blast from the Crucible (in any ending except vaporize) is shown to be harmless to anything but the Reapers. It cascades all over the planet and we can see that it doesn't seem to harm anything but the Reapers, and depending on the color scheme, it doesn't even "harm" them two out of three times. 

There is no reason for Joker to be running anywhere.

Assuming he had time to see it hit other things (and we have no reason to disbelieve either): There's no reason to believe it didn't damage other ships in the same way it did the normandy, ground troups are a different beast. They lack mass effect cores for one.

Assuming he didn't: It's a big field rushing towards you from an ancient weapon of mass destruction. It's not the sort of thing were you'd wait and see.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 04 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[Arppis]

DinoSteve wrote...

only way it makes sense is, if Joker is a coward

Well he did promise to take care of Normandy to Shepard.

[Oakenshield1]

Speculation!

[Traestus]

Yeah Full breakdown time!

Okay starting from the moment Harby's beam drills Shepard we know a few things.

1.) Shepards team is right there in front of the beam
2.) Joker is somewhere above earth flying with Sword
3.) Cortez's shuttle has been shot down, but Vega wants everyone to Come on and Get Some(This reaction is priceless seriously look up the reaction to the death it makes zero sense.)
4.) The closest mass relay is the Charon relay out past pluto. Previous codex entries indicate that it will take 8+ hours to reach the Charon relay from earth.

So after Shepard wakes up from the beam, you hear Hackett radio that Hammer has failed and needs to retreat. So judging by the situation not much time has passed and the order is only for Hammer NOT for Sword which is what Joker and the Normandy are part of.

So Shepard goes up the beam and proceeds to have happy fun time with Starchild and his rainbow maker.

Now at this point he activate the beam and then everything goes to hell. The ending basically makes us assume.

That after the beam hit Shepards Squad. Joker had time to do

1.) Fly down to London from above Earth, abandoning the fight with Sword.
2.) Pick up my Squadmates who were literally lying 5 feet from a bunch of reapers.
3.) Turn around and fly off to....we don't know we know it's not earth as from the cut scene there are clearly two moons present. There are no other garden worlds in Sol. So the only assumption we can make is that he is heading through a Mass Relay.

The problem with that is that the closest one is 8 hours away, and NOTHING in those cut scenes indicate that THAT huge an amount of time has passed. I cannot think of a possible way for him to have landed on that planet without having used a ME relay.

Even if he was in in FTL travel the fact that EDI walks out of the Normandy unharmed means that only the Engine and ship was wrecked regardless of the reaper tech. Therefore if he was in FTL speed it stands to reason that all other ships above earth would be effected by the pulse if he was. Since I can't think of a possible explanation why the wave would randomly only effect things in FTL speed travel (Not ME relay travel), it would basically indicate that the entire fleet above earth would be destroyed by the pulse sending the entire Armada above Earth hurtling down towards the planet in a fiery rain of destruction which would likely annihilate the entire planet.


There is no explination for their behavior. Literally the entire game EVERYONE on your crew gets how this is the final fight. There is no retreat to another safe zone. If they lose it's bye bye galaxy.

So why in the middle of the most important fight ever does Joker decide he really needs a pizza for Tuchanka? Why does my entire crew just go along with this even though they've all said they are in this to the death?

Just...why this Scene? It's awful

[MadRabbit999]

Traestus wrote...

Yeah Full breakdown time!

Okay starting from the moment Harby's beam drills Shepard we know a few things.

1.) Shepards team is right there in front of the beam
2.) Joker is somewhere above earth flying with Sword
3.) Cortez's shuttle has been shot down, but Vega wants everyone to Come on and Get Some(This reaction is priceless seriously look up the reaction to the death it makes zero sense.)
4.) The closest mass relay is the Charon relay out past pluto. Previous codex entries indicate that it will take 8+ hours to reach the Charon relay from earth.

So after Shepard wakes up from the beam, you hear Hackett radio that Hammer has failed and needs to retreat. So judging by the situation not much time has passed and the order is only for Hammer NOT for Sword which is what Joker and the Normandy are part of.

So Shepard goes up the beam and proceeds to have happy fun time with Starchild and his rainbow maker.

Now at this point he activate the beam and then everything goes to hell. The ending basically makes us assume.

That after the beam hit Shepards Squad. Joker had time to do

1.) Fly down to London from above Earth, abandoning the fight with Sword.
2.) Pick up my Squadmates who were literally lying 5 feet from a bunch of reapers.
3.) Turn around and fly off to....we don't know we know it's not earth as from the cut scene there are clearly two moons present. There are no other garden worlds in Sol. So the only assumption we can make is that he is heading through a Mass Relay.

The problem with that is that the closest one is 8 hours away, and NOTHING in those cut scenes indicate that THAT huge an amount of time has passed. I cannot think of a possible way for him to have landed on that planet without having used a ME relay.

Even if he was in in FTL travel the fact that EDI walks out of the Normandy unharmed means that only the Engine and ship was wrecked regardless of the reaper tech. Therefore if he was in FTL speed it stands to reason that all other ships above earth would be effected by the pulse if he was. Since I can't think of a possible explanation why the wave would randomly only effect things in FTL speed travel (Not ME relay travel), it would basically indicate that the entire fleet above earth would be destroyed by the pulse sending the entire Armada above Earth hurtling down towards the planet in a fiery rain of destruction which would likely annihilate the entire planet.


There is no explination for their behavior. Literally the entire game EVERYONE on your crew gets how this is the final fight. There is no retreat to another safe zone. If they lose it's bye bye galaxy.

So why in the middle of the most important fight ever does Joker decide he really needs a pizza for Tuchanka? Why does my entire crew just go along with this even though they've all said they are in this to the death?

Just...why this Scene? It's awful

2 things:

1: In the Intro  the reapers get out of the mass relay and ends up on earth in less than 1 minute, meaning the reapers can either move MUCH faster than FTL or that is antoher plothole.

2.Are you saying that during the last battle between the time the fleet comes out.. 8 hours passes before they even touch the first reaper? If true, then this has been forgotten, which can mean the travelling distance in the ending also has  also been ignored to create that scene.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 04 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[Traestus]

2 things:

1: In the Intro  the reapers get out of the mass relay and ends up on earth in less than 1 minute, meaning the reapers can either move MUCH faster than FTL or that is antoher plothole.

2.Are you saying that during the last battle between the time the fleet comes out.. 8 hours passes before they even touch the first reaper? If true, then this has been oversighted, which can mean the travelling distance in the ending also has been ignored.

1. The reapers are the ones that created the ME relays it stands to reason that their ability harness their powers is much higher than the rest of the races, in ME2 when you hit the Omega 4 relay, it takes some amount of time before you're spit out on the other side.

2. I'm saying that as of Shepard getting hit by the beam, because the squad is still on the ground but shows up on the ending scene, (In mine I saw Garrus and Liara lying there and guess who stepped out of the normandy at the end) there is no way Joker could have left the battle with them BEFORE they were hit by the beam.

So what I'm saying is there's nothing in the game that would indicate there's ANYWHERE close to the 8+ hours needed for Joker to fly down to earth, pick up the squad, and then make it ALL the way to the Charon relay to make a jump.

[jumpingkaede]

Here's the missing quote that makes your scenario improbable (in bold):

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Admiral: Ground team all dead, the Relays are about to explode, make a run for it

Joker: I am not leaving Shepard's behind!

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus: Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper, let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this ship!

Admiral Hackett: Nah, Shepard is fine I was just talking to him on the Citadel after he gave us the okay to move the Crucible in and attach it to the Citadel.  Remember that part?  With the Crucible?  Yeah, we only moved it in because we knew Shepard was alive.

Joker reclutant, decides after being quickly persuaded to make a run for the relay.

Nobody can know that this shockwave will cause the next Mass Relay to explode, it is not simultaneous, it is gradual, 1 relay nework connection at the time.

[jumpingkaede]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Beside not all fleet ships  makes it out of there in time I'd think, and the same goes for the reapers.. and even those who gets away are blown to bits. The Normandy is als othe fastes ship out there, so if anything they are the first ones capable of saving themselves.

The Normandy, which is the fastest ship, can't escape in time.  So every other ship in the Galaxy Fleet is gone.  

Wow that's dark.  And grim.  And bitter.

[Ziggeh]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

2 things:

1: In the Intro  the reapers get out of the mass relay and ends up on earth in less than 1 minute, meaning the reapers can either move MUCH faster than FTL or that is antoher plothole.

2.Are you saying that during the last battle between the time the fleet comes out.. 8 hours passes before they even touch the first reaper? If true, then this has been forgotten, which can mean the travelling distance in the ending also has  also been ignored to create that scene.

There is no consistency of speed across the entire series.

[esideras]

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

Thing is EDI survives the red ending, and I know I'm not the only one that happened to. Did the beam just stop? That makes no sense. In the green ending we see EDI affected by the merge magic. 

[Mcfly616]

QuanManChu wrote...

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

QFT.

Haha Nah dude you QFT....the guy asked a legit question.....don't get mad just because it puts a MAJOR hole in the OP's explanation.....

[Thorn Harvestar]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus: Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper, let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this ship!

I took Garrus and Liara (LI), and I just can not see this being in their character at all.

During the bromance date with Garrus, Shepard tells him:
http://www.youtube.c...cGMYg5Eg#t=135s

"Times like these, you know who your real friends are. They're not the ones running around looking for an escape route. They're the ones who stand at your side through the worst of it, who never give up on you. I'm lucky I can say I know someone like that"

The Normandy scene is my personal biggest issue with the current endings. There is no context to justify any of it. Why didn't Joker just do an emergency landing on Earth?