245 réponses à ce sujet

[Vipus_Locasta]

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

Even if Joker knew what was going to happen (while not even Shepard was sure of what would happen) that would mean that Joker betrayed you and put the entire mission in danger just to save his robotic girlfriend... You know, just when everyone is ready to make the ultimate sacrifice and if they fail there really won't be a tomorrow?

Sorry, but that's just stupid.

[Thorn Harvestar]

Mcfly616 wrote...

QuanManChu wrote...

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

QFT.

Haha Nah dude you QFT....the guy asked a legit question.....don't get mad just because it puts a MAJOR hole in the OP's explanation.....

QFT = Quoted For Truth. He was AGREEING.

[Silasqtx]

Mcfly616 wrote...

QuanManChu wrote...

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

QFT.

Haha Nah dude you QFT....the guy asked a legit question.....don't get mad just because it puts a MAJOR hole in the OP's explanation.....

QFT= quoting for truth.

[Thorn Harvestar]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus: Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper, let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this ship!

I took Garrus and Liara (LI), and I just can not see this being in their character at all.

During the bromance date with Garrus, Shepard tells him:
http://www.youtube.c...cGMYg5Eg#t=135s

"Times like these, you know who your real friends are. They're not the ones running around looking for an escape route. They're the ones who stand at your side through the worst of it, who never give up on you. I'm lucky I can say I know someone like that"

The Normandy scene is my personal biggest issue with the current endings. There is no context to justify any of it. Why didn't Joker just do an emergency landing on Earth?

Also, the fact that EDI/Normandy doesn't hear Hackett contacting you while in the Citadel

[JShepppp]

Leaked/cut script/scenes show Shepard commanding his squad to escape with Joker on the Normandy SR2 during the Harbinger run as Harby begins to obliterate everyone. Why they took it out of the final version is anyone's guess.

I also don't know why they took out the part where Anderson talks to Shepard about being a dad/mom and having kids (after TIM encounter). That was some very touching dialogue.

[Ziggeh]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

The Normandy scene is my personal biggest issue with the current endings. There is no context to justify any of it. Why didn't Joker just do an emergency landing on Earth?

To escape the thing coming from earths orbit?

[Thorn Harvestar]

Ziggeh wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

The Normandy scene is my personal biggest issue with the current endings. There is no context to justify any of it. Why didn't Joker just do an emergency landing on Earth?

To escape the thing coming from earths orbit?

I don't see how that warrants leaving the solar system.

He didn't have to land in London. Or in Europe. Or in that hemisphere.

[Kandon Arc]

The main problem is that Joker would have had to have started running before the crucible is activated. Once the crucible is activated, there is no way that the Normandy could get from Earth to Charon in that time. But before the crucible is activated, there is no reason for him to leave. While talking to the catalyst, we can clearly see the space battle continuing outside, so Hackett is still around, ergo no retreat order has been given.

And why would there be anyway? Shepard opened the arms of the citadel for the crucible so Hackett at least knows he's still alive. So Hackett would obviously continue to order the fleet to defend the crucible until it's activated.

[webhead921]

Joker just went back because he left his wallet on that jungle planet. He is smiling at the end because he found it.

[rudenotginger]

Even if Joker knew what the Crucible would do, which he doesn't; even if he knew about the Destroy choice's outcome, which he doesn't; even if he knew which choice Shepard was going to make, which he doesn't; he would never ever abandon Shepard. Not even to save EDI. Ever. Not after what hapened in ME2. So, sorry, not buying it.

[Thorn Harvestar]

rudenotginger wrote...

Even if Joker knew what the Crucible would do, which he doesn't; even if he knew about the Destroy choice's outcome, which he doesn't; even if he knew which choice Shepard was going to make, which he doesn't; he would never ever abandon Shepard. Not even to save EDI. Ever. Not after what hapened in ME2. So, sorry, not buying it.

Well said. Even more true after Joker confesses to being angry at himself for getting you killed in ME2.

[Apollo Starflare]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

[/b]The Normandy scene is my personal biggest issue with the current endings. There is no context to justify any of it. Why didn't Joker just do an emergency landing on Earth?

Yeah, it's definitely one of my main issues with the ending as well. I was completely thrown by it when I first went through the ending sequence. Even if you come up with some convoluted rationale behind why Joker did it (and seemingly picked up the crew sworn to fight the Reapers on Earth too), it still comes across as confusing and messily implemented.

[Ziggeh]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

I don't see how that warrants leaving the solar system.

He didn't have to land in London. Or in Europe. Or in that hemisphere.

Chances are he would have had to have skirted around the giant expanding weaponofmassdestruction field to reach earth. Or go through it. Which would rather defeat the object. Leaving the solar system is probably just because if you move away from it, that's where you're headed.

[Ziggeh]

Kandon Arc wrote...

 Once the crucible is activated, there is no way that the Normandy could get from Earth to Charon in that time.

Based on which speed? The one we observe it moving at on earth, or the one we observe it moving at from the galaxy map?

[MadRabbit999]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Here's the missing quote that makes your scenario improbable (in bold):

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Admiral: Ground team all dead, the Relays are about to explode, make a run for it

Joker: I am not leaving Shepard's behind!

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus: Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper, let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this ship!

Admiral Hackett: Nah, Shepard is fine I was just talking to him on the Citadel after he gave us the okay to move the Crucible in and attach it to the Citadel.  Remember that part?  With the Crucible?  Yeah, we only moved it in because we knew Shepard was alive.

Joker reclutant, decides after being quickly persuaded to make a run for the relay.

Nobody can know that this shockwave will cause the next Mass Relay to explode, it is not simultaneous, it is gradual, 1 relay nework connection at the time.

You are wrong, Hacket is not having any conversation with Shepard, he is talking on one side, trying his luck and hoping Shepard is still alive, to be honest that he says "They're all dead" and the suddenly says "Yeah open it up please?" Makes no sense.

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus:
Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper,
let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this
ship!

I took Garrus and Liara (LI), and I just can not see this being in their character at all.

During the bromance date with Garrus, Shepard tells him:
http://www.youtube.c...cGMYg5Eg#t=135s

"Times
like these, you know who your real friends are. They're not the ones
running around looking for an escape route. They're the ones who stand
at your side through the worst of it, who never give up on you. I'm
lucky I can say I know someone like that"

The Normandy scene
is my personal biggest issue with the current endings. There is no
context to justify any of it. Why didn't Joker just do an emergency
landing on Earth?

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

[Thorn Harvestar]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

How can they see you blowing up when you didn't blow up?

You are still in one piece. All they could have seen was you being enveloped in a burst and then laying on the ground. In one (slightly toasted) piece.

EDIT: And i'm ignoring the fact that your LI and Garrus would have likely tried to recover your corpse anyway before fleeing.

Modifié par Thorn Harvestar, 04 avril 2012 - 03:43 .

[MadRabbit999]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

How can they see you blowing up when you didn't blow up?

You are still in one piece. All they could have seen was you being enveloped in a burst and then laying on the ground. In one (slightly toasted) piece.

EDIT: And i'm ignoring the fact that your LI and Garrus would have likely tried to recover your corpse anyway before fleeing.

Because Hacketts calls it off, saying everyone is dead?

Also there are mountains of corpses beside you... until you regain your senses, you look like one of them, seems pretty logical to me to assume you are dead.

[Terraforming2154]

The problem is that he is at the Charon relay, meaning he had to leave Earth and the battle some time before Shepard's choice with the Catalyst. That leaves two conclusions in my mind; either he 1) turned tail in the middle of battle, or 2) somehow gained psychic abilities within the last ten minutes of the game and knew what was going to happen. Neither of those is a good explanation in my mind.

Either they cut much needed dialog out from the ending or they just didn’t think this through.

Also, I don’t think you are giving EDI much credit in this scenario, OP. Especially an EDI that Shepard supports throughout the game. The comments she made at the end suggest she was just as loyal to my Shepard as everyone else. And I would like to think she wouldn’t have agreed even if Joker wanted to run away from the fight. During the middle of the game, she told Shepard she would fight for altruism. All in all, I would like to trust in her sense of duty and just go on believing that the ending was poorly planned rather than being definitive and intentionally ridiculous because the writers thought it made sense.

EDIT: Also, even Joker was able to get to the relay after the run down the hill toward the Crucible where Shepard "died" (or where everyone, including Joker, thought he had), why would everyone just give up? Were they originally running away to regroup or were they just running out of defeat? Sure Shep is a great motivator, but I would think everyone would keep fighting for themselves too.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 04 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[Kandon Arc]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

Here's the missing quote that makes your scenario improbable (in bold):

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Admiral: Ground team all dead, the Relays are about to explode, make a run for it

Joker: I am not leaving Shepard's behind!

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus: Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper, let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this ship!

Admiral Hackett: Nah, Shepard is fine I was just talking to him on the Citadel after he gave us the okay to move the Crucible in and attach it to the Citadel.  Remember that part?  With the Crucible?  Yeah, we only moved it in because we knew Shepard was alive.

Joker reclutant, decides after being quickly persuaded to make a run for the relay.

Nobody can know that this shockwave will cause the next Mass Relay to explode, it is not simultaneous, it is gradual, 1 relay nework connection at the time.

You are wrong, Hacket is not having any conversation with Shepard, he is talking on one side, trying his luck and hoping Shepard is still alive, to be honest that he says "They're all dead" and the suddenly says "Yeah open it up please?" Makes no sense.

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

EDI/Liara/Tali/Garrus:
Joker, Shepard is gone we saw him dying by the blast of that reaper,
let it go, do not throw away your life and everybody else's on this
ship!

I took Garrus and Liara (LI), and I just can not see this being in their character at all.

During the bromance date with Garrus, Shepard tells him:
http://www.youtube.c...cGMYg5Eg#t=135s

"Times
like these, you know who your real friends are. They're not the ones
running around looking for an escape route. They're the ones who stand
at your side through the worst of it, who never give up on you. I'm
lucky I can say I know someone like that"

The Normandy scene
is my personal biggest issue with the current endings. There is no
context to justify any of it. Why didn't Joker just do an emergency
landing on Earth?

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

I think it becomes pretty obvious that Shepard is alive when he opens the Citadel.

[Thorn Harvestar]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

How can they see you blowing up when you didn't blow up?

You are still in one piece. All they could have seen was you being enveloped in a burst and then laying on the ground. In one (slightly toasted) piece.

EDIT: And i'm ignoring the fact that your LI and Garrus would have likely tried to recover your corpse anyway before fleeing.

Because Hacketts calls it off, saying everyone is dead?

Also there are mountains of corpses beside you... until you regain your senses, you look like one of them, seems pretty logical to me to assume you are dead.

IMO, "Logical" would be them checking your corpse to make sure you are dead. Esp. with Harbinger leaving.

Hackett can say whatever he wants; Garrus and Liara aren't just going to assume the worst without trying to verify it.

[Mcfly616]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

QuanManChu wrote...

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

QFT.

Haha Nah dude you QFT....the guy asked a legit question.....don't get mad just because it puts a MAJOR hole in the OP's explanation.....

QFT = Quoted For Truth. He was AGREEING.

Ahh I apologize.....I stand corrected lol I agree as well

[AlexXIV]

Unless the whole Sol System gets wiped out and Joker knows this (though I wonder how) it is cowardly AND stupid. Because honestly, if he just flew on the other side of earth then the exploding or whatever mass relay/Citadel would not have hit him. That he is in a mass relay jump the minute they blow up is just ... really pointless and bad writing.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 avril 2012 - 03:59 .

[Kandon Arc]

Ziggeh wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

 Once the crucible is activated, there is no way that the Normandy could get from Earth to Charon in that time.

Based on which speed? The one we observe it moving at on earth, or the one we observe it moving at from the galaxy map?

Based at the speeds specified in the in game lore? Or does Shepard also aquire a gun that has infinite ammo; a probe that teleports minerals into the Normandy's cargo hold; or Wolverine-like healing ability?

[Vhalkyrie]

Pretty sure Hackett would inform the Normandy that he just talked with Shepard. No way Joker would tail it out of there.

[Ziggeh]

Kandon Arc wrote...

Based at the speeds specified in the in game lore? Or does Shepard also aquire a gun that has infinite ammo; a probe that teleports minerals into the Normandy's cargo hold; or Wolverine-like healing ability?

Hmm. Surely pointing out concessions made to gameplay and narrative should be my role in this debate? I'm saying that the speeds written in the codex bear no relation to the speeds that anyone is moving at any point in the series.