245 réponses à ce sujet

[Minimooo]

Sinekein wrote...

Naturalus wrote...

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

That's kind of the problem here.

And the fact that how does Joker know about the decision Shep makes?

[Wabajakka]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

/thread

[MadRabbit999]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

How can they see you blowing up when you didn't blow up?

You are still in one piece. All they could have seen was you being enveloped in a burst and then laying on the ground. In one (slightly toasted) piece.

EDIT: And i'm ignoring the fact that your LI and Garrus would have likely tried to recover your corpse anyway before fleeing.

Because Hacketts calls it off, saying everyone is dead?

Also there are mountains of corpses beside you... until you regain your senses, you look like one of them, seems pretty logical to me to assume you are dead.

IMO, "Logical" would be them checking your corpse to make sure you are dead. Esp. with Harbinger leaving.

Hackett can say whatever he wants; Garrus and Liara aren't just going to assume the worst without trying to verify it.

Ever thought that Harbingers is leaving because there is nobody there left to fight? which means he off chasing the fleet, there are no ships anymore that can confirm your presence there a tthis point, and if before they had to send you on foot to reach the light, why do you think suddenly it is ok to descend with a ship?

[Thorn Harvestar]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

How can they see you blowing up when you didn't blow up?

You are still in one piece. All they could have seen was you being enveloped in a burst and then laying on the ground. In one (slightly toasted) piece.

EDIT: And i'm ignoring the fact that your LI and Garrus would have likely tried to recover your corpse anyway before fleeing.

Because Hacketts calls it off, saying everyone is dead?

Also there are mountains of corpses beside you... until you regain your senses, you look like one of them, seems pretty logical to me to assume you are dead.

IMO, "Logical" would be them checking your corpse to make sure you are dead. Esp. with Harbinger leaving.

Hackett can say whatever he wants; Garrus and Liara aren't just going to assume the worst without trying to verify it.

Ever thought that Harbingers is leaving because there is nobody there left to fight? which means he off chasing the fleet, there are no ships anymore that can confirm your presence there a tthis point, and if before they had to send you on foot to reach the light, why do you think suddenly it is ok to descend with a ship?

Your entire squad (as far as we know) is on the ground when you make the conduit run. 2 of them follow you during the actual run. I'm asking why they didn't verify the state of your body, being loyal companions.

[redbaron76]

The problem of your theory is simple Joker does not know what catalyst told shepard. So your theory does not explain why normandy run from the battle.

[Kandon Arc]

Ziggeh wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Based at the speeds specified in the in game lore? Or does Shepard also aquire a gun that has infinite ammo; a probe that teleports minerals into the Normandy's cargo hold; or Wolverine-like healing ability?

Hmm. Surely pointing out concessions made to gameplay and narrative should be my role in this debate? I'm saying that the speeds written in the codex bear no relation to the speeds that anyone is moving at any point in the series. 

What I'm saying is that this is the first time that such a large disconnect has appeared betwen the established rules of the universe and observed events. An author has leeway in bending the rules he creates, but he shouldn't go too far and nor should he leave it unexplained. A good example is the shift from infinite ammo to thermal clips between ME1 and ME2. This was done for gameplay reasons but they did also make time to explain it in a believable way. 

[RyuGuitarFreak]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

[Kandon Arc]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

How can they see you blowing up when you didn't blow up?

You are still in one piece. All they could have seen was you being enveloped in a burst and then laying on the ground. In one (slightly toasted) piece.

EDIT: And i'm ignoring the fact that your LI and Garrus would have likely tried to recover your corpse anyway before fleeing.

Because Hacketts calls it off, saying everyone is dead?

Also there are mountains of corpses beside you... until you regain your senses, you look like one of them, seems pretty logical to me to assume you are dead.

IMO, "Logical" would be them checking your corpse to make sure you are dead. Esp. with Harbinger leaving.

Hackett can say whatever he wants; Garrus and Liara aren't just going to assume the worst without trying to verify it.

Ever thought that Harbingers is leaving because there is nobody there left to fight? which means he off chasing the fleet, there are no ships anymore that can confirm your presence there a tthis point, and if before they had to send you on foot to reach the light, why do you think suddenly it is ok to descend with a ship?

What happens on the ground is irrelevant. Shepard opens the Citadel and Hackett sends in the Crucible. At this point it is clear to Hackett that Shepard is alive and on the Citadel.

[Beti88]

Joker would've stayed and died fighting if he got any news about Shepard being MIA/KIA. Because that would mean all is lost. The whole galaxy will be eradicated.

There is absolutely no reason for him whatsoever to leave the battle. NO REASON AT ALL

[TheGreenAlloy]

Mcfly616 wrote...

QuanManChu wrote...

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

QFT.

Haha Nah dude you QFT....the guy asked a legit question.....don't get mad just because it puts a MAJOR hole in the OP's explanation.....

wat

QFT means Quoted For Truth.

[Siven80]

All i see is Speculation!

[MadRabbit999]

Kandon Arc wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

How can they see you blowing up when you didn't blow up?

You are still in one piece. All they could have seen was you being enveloped in a burst and then laying on the ground. In one (slightly toasted) piece.

EDIT: And i'm ignoring the fact that your LI and Garrus would have likely tried to recover your corpse anyway before fleeing.

Because Hacketts calls it off, saying everyone is dead?

Also there are mountains of corpses beside you... until you regain your senses, you look like one of them, seems pretty logical to me to assume you are dead.

IMO, "Logical" would be them checking your corpse to make sure you are dead. Esp. with Harbinger leaving.

Hackett can say whatever he wants; Garrus and Liara aren't just going to assume the worst without trying to verify it.

Ever thought that Harbingers is leaving because there is nobody there left to fight? which means he off chasing the fleet, there are no ships anymore that can confirm your presence there a tthis point, and if before they had to send you on foot to reach the light, why do you think suddenly it is ok to descend with a ship?

What happens on the ground is irrelevant. Shepard opens the Citadel and Hackett sends in the Crucible. At this point it is clear to Hackett that Shepard is alive and on the Citadel.

lol why?

Couldn't "John Smith" have it made t othe Citadel? Why Shepard? Why not Anderson? Sorry, it still makes no sense that he calls out for Shepard, but the fact stays, that Shepard do not answer back, so Hacket does not know what is opening the Citadel.

[NReed106]

1-How does he know it will kill EDI?
2-Why do my squadmates need to leave with him?

[InsaneAzrael]

Naturalus wrote...

I know that many people protest that Joker and Normandy run in end scene when she was supposed to stay and wait around earth supporting Shepard or giving evac for Shepard in case needed.

Reason they run is that. Normandy is AI ship that contains EDI this is reason why that Crucible synthetic killing energy harms Normandy. Joker loves EDI and he try to save desperately her from that Synthetic killing beam.

This run scene for Normandy on fits only if Shepard choice synthetic life killing ending I do not understand why same Normandy run scene comes if Shepard choice synthesis or control ending. Controls ending dont harm EDI and synthesis helps Joker and EDI become lovers even better.

I'm going to reiterate on a few criticisms which have no doubt been presented to you:

1. EDI is an AI computer on board the Normandy vessel. She has designed suites and protocols in place that allow her to network with the ship's systems. She is not tied to the systems, but rather aids in monitoring and optimising them. The mechanisms of the ship remain independent of her control.

2. Joker's attachment to EDI  is irrelevant. Both EDI and Joker are aware of the stakes and are both admittant of being willing to sacrifice themselves in war for the future of ALL of the galactic races. They are not stupid and not compelled solely by eachother. This is evident in numerous cases. Also, bare in mind what EDI says regarding the reapers in London. She knows what needs to be done, she is not going to back down. Joker has never backed down, and wilfully put himself forward for an unknown suicidal mission in the second game where he actually met EDI.

3. The effect of the beam is unknown at the point in which they are fleeing. 

But my main qualm with your misuse of the lore is this. You could have made a much stronger case if you were not so evidently invested in the love affair between Jeff and EDI.

What other argument could be made to explain it?

Well personally, if I was to go grasping at straws.
That it was an emergency Cerberus protocol activated by TIM. Knowing that the Normandy would be an important asset to the military in active combat, TIM could have turned on systems that removed Jeff's control of the ship and laid in a course to an indeterminate location.

What is the premise of this argument. Well, in ME2, shackled or unshackled, EDI was blocked from certain modules of data about Cerberus stored on her network. These could include failsafes (contingencies) for the instance in which EDI went amok or they lost restraints. Some could have included remote activation protocols. This may also be more informative in explaining why even whilst in a collapsing ME field, before engine failure, the normandy computers are emitting hazard warnings. The ship may have been intentionally sabotaged via remote communication or inert program restrictions.

I'm confident in my belief that Jeff were not intentionally being cowards. With further information regarding the intents of the crew, I may be alleviated of the nagging headache this abismal ending scene evokes.

[Bfler]

Hackett calls Shepard on the Citadel, so the comm system must be ok. That means Shepard could call the Normandy after his talk with the child and order Joker to leave the system because Shepard assumes that he will die with every choice and he doesn't know what will happen with the Reapers or the Citadel after the choice.

Modifié par Bfler, 04 avril 2012 - 04:34 .

[Heather Cline]

Your reasoning OP is flawed. Joker would not know that the energy escaping the crucible for the destruction ending would destroy EDI. Also he wouldn't know about synthesis or control for that matter. Therefore no offense to you but your reasoning has a huge hole in it that can be driven through by a Reaper.

[Creston918]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

Space Ma....

I can't do it anymore.

[Vhalkyrie]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Ever thought that Harbingers is leaving because there is nobody there left to fight? which means he off chasing the fleet, there are no ships anymore that can confirm your presence there a tthis point, and if before they had to send you on foot to reach the light, why do you think suddenly it is ok to descend with a ship?

Guarding the conduit is pretty strategically important.  They had a Reaper standing guard there until we blew it up, then made a run for it.  Harby showed up to cover it.  Wouldn't make sense for him to leave it unguarded.  Someone else could walk right in...which is what happened.  AI mastermind fail.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 04 avril 2012 - 04:33 .

[Jagri]

The Normandy fleeing just isn't explainable within what we currently know. Given the situation the crew would operate under the impression Shepard is still alive and if that being the case would rush to the Citadel in order to support him/her. If even they believed the worse had taken place they still would likely headed to the Citadel in order to carry on the mission.

[Kandon Arc]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yeah but if he saw Shepard blowing up,
what is the sence in risking other people life to save his corpse?
NOBODY knows Shepard is alive, even your LI would not sacrifice the whole of Normandy jsut to go and pick up a charred corpse.

How can they see you blowing up when you didn't blow up?

You are still in one piece. All they could have seen was you being enveloped in a burst and then laying on the ground. In one (slightly toasted) piece.

EDIT: And i'm ignoring the fact that your LI and Garrus would have likely tried to recover your corpse anyway before fleeing.

Because Hacketts calls it off, saying everyone is dead?

Also there are mountains of corpses beside you... until you regain your senses, you look like one of them, seems pretty logical to me to assume you are dead.

IMO, "Logical" would be them checking your corpse to make sure you are dead. Esp. with Harbinger leaving.

Hackett can say whatever he wants; Garrus and Liara aren't just going to assume the worst without trying to verify it.

Ever thought that Harbingers is leaving because there is nobody there left to fight? which means he off chasing the fleet, there are no ships anymore that can confirm your presence there a tthis point, and if before they had to send you on foot to reach the light, why do you think suddenly it is ok to descend with a ship?

What happens on the ground is irrelevant. Shepard opens the Citadel and Hackett sends in the Crucible. At this point it is clear to Hackett that Shepard is alive and on the Citadel.

lol why?

Couldn't "John Smith" have it made t othe Citadel? Why Shepard? Why not Anderson? Sorry, it still makes no sense that he calls out for Shepard, but the fact stays, that Shepard do not answer back, so Hacket does not know what is opening the Citadel.

Occam's Razor. Shepard was last seen next to the Citadel teleporter then disappears. A few minutes later the Citadel's arms open. I think Hackett would conclude the most likely explanation is that Shepard made it.

And even if he doesn't think it's Shepard, he still orders the Crucible in, so he obviously still thinks the plan can work.

[Luigitornado]

They ran because Hackett ordered a retreat of Sword to ensure their safety upon the Crucible's activation.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 04 avril 2012 - 04:43 .

[Beti88]

Luigitornado wrote...

They ran because Hackett ordered a retreat of sword to ensure their safety upon the Crucible's activation.

How do you know this? Did you have a vision? Is there a Gamorrean princess under your bed whispering secrets?

Modifié par Beti88, 04 avril 2012 - 04:39 .

[Jagri]

Beti88 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

The Normandy fleeing just isn't explainable within what we currently know. Given the situation the crew would operate under the impression Shepard is still alive and if that being the case would rush to the Citadel in order to support him/her. If even they believed the worse had taken place they still would likely headed to the Citadel in order to carry on the mission.

Theres so many things wrong here, actually nothing you just said makes sense.

If they were headed for the Citadel, why were they in FTL? The Citadel is orbiting Earth. If they were headed to the Citadel, how did they magically end up on Gilligan's Planet?

Thats whats wrong with this picture... They were fleeing to begin with when everyone was saying the key to stopping the Reapers was the Citadel and Crucible. The SR2 Normandy was designed for its stealth capabilities so it should be landing troops on a key objective.

[LadyWench]

The title for this thread is very misleading, LOL!

Also, this does nothing to explain why Officer "We're in this together...remember, I took the kill shot" Vakarian left my ass at the "bar" to go on the run with the Normandy!

Good to know Joker also acquired psychic powers to know that Catalyst gave me those crappy choices and knew which one I picked to take off before I picked it... <_<

[Snoozems7]

likta_ wrote...

How does Joker know that the beam is going to kill EDI?

Precisely my thoughts. As far as we know, there was no contact between Shepherd and anyone else after Hackett saying the Crucible wasn't firing. No one other than Shepherd knew what was about to happen - unless you include the little AI ****.

It's more likely Joker left the system out of fear - not knowing what the Crucible was going to unleash. All he could do at that point was try to save the remaining crew of the Normandy. 

As for how part of your squad was on it and not killed from Harbinger's beam is another matter. Plus, what are they going to do? If that planet is uninhabited, they're on their own. They might make it to another star system within the cluster, but maybe they don't have enough fuel. The relays are destroyed. So they're stuck there, eventually resorting to wearing loincloths and becoming hunter-gatherers again (assuming the food isn't toxic).

No mention either of Wrex, Jack or Samara.

That's what happens to Commander Shepherd's crew is it? The crew we have spent hours and hours with over the past five years. Thank you Bioware.