187 réponses à ce sujet

[Corrik Ronis]

The ending isn't some complicated masterpiece that is difficult to comprehend. It is just a poorly written, plot hole filled example of what happens with your reach outstrips your grasp.

Hold the line.

[Lucy Glitter]

 Wow. Totally wasn't expecting cheap shots to be taken at religion in here. Not at all.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 04 avril 2012 - 01:48 .

[Mnementh2230]

Aurvant wrote...

The Catalyst is not a deity.

Although it's apparent that he's an AI, there isn't any evidence that he is "out of control". For all we know, the Catalyst was created to be an idiotic, genocidal maniac. This is the only explanation for the completely circular and moronic logic that it attempts to use to "save organic species".

Face it. There is nothing to gain from the ending but a mess of jumbled scenes tossed together to give the impression of a "bay ending". Lots of colors, explosions, and whatnot. It's an insult to the series and the only way to fix it is to remove the Catalyst and its stupid role in the game.

I think we can leave the Catalyst in...  if we run with Indoctrination Theory. 

[BigEvil]

Iconoclaste wrote...

BigEvil wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

BigEvil wrote...

No, according to this topic we should remember that Luzarius is and always has been a troll.

Sure. But is he a "good Troll" or a "bad Troll"?

He's certainly a bad troll because he seems to have no understanding of humour.

I do not think this thread would be seen so funny if instead of "religion", Luzarius had written that he understands the endings because of his "cultural origin".

Indeed, we can see the humour, but he cannot. He truly believes what he is saying is true, not a joke. We should pity him, really.

[Asharad Hett]

Luzarius wrote...
Did I understand why the normandy crashed? No. Did I understand how shep got back down to the surface of earth? No.

OK, glad you understand the ending.......

[Agamemnon2589]

If they'd wanted the game to have a religious base, with religious themes and space magic based on religion, they should have done that with ME1. Then, not only would I have not have been upset with the ending, I just wouldn't have played the trilogy. Thanks for the 200 hours of my life back.

[Mavaras]

I believed in god before I beat the game. Now I'm not so sure.
/end sarcasm

[Kilshrek]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

 Wow. Totally wasn't expecting cheap shots to be taken at religion in here. Not at all.

You do know this is the internet? I'm not defending the cheap shots, neither am I promoting the discussions on actual religion, out of context of the game.

But people aren't make a very good case of it by making the occasional sweeping generalisation.


But more Robb Stark is not unwelcome, perhaps I should start taking cheap shots at religion, so you'd post more? That was a poor attempt at humour, just in case... y'know...

Modifié par Kilshrek, 04 avril 2012 - 01:49 .

[Aurvant]

Mnementh2230 wrote...

Aurvant wrote...

The Catalyst is not a deity.

Although it's apparent that he's an AI, there isn't any evidence that he is "out of control". For all we know, the Catalyst was created to be an idiotic, genocidal maniac. This is the only explanation for the completely circular and moronic logic that it attempts to use to "save organic species".

Face it. There is nothing to gain from the ending but a mess of jumbled scenes tossed together to give the impression of a "bay ending". Lots of colors, explosions, and whatnot. It's an insult to the series and the only way to fix it is to remove the Catalyst and its stupid role in the game.

I think we can leave the Catalyst in...  if we run with Indoctrination Theory. 

Perhaps, but only if we run with the Indoctrination Theory.

Also:

Modifié par Aurvant, 04 avril 2012 - 01:51 .

[Oakenshield1]

Kilshrek wrote...

Oakenshield1 wrote...

 Buddha? World Soul?

Buddha isn't a god as such. Nor is Buddhism a religion so much as it is a teaching, a sort of... code to live by.

Don't know anything about World Soul.

Well seeing as temples have statues of Buddha everywhere, he's pretty much worshipped as a god. Buddhism also has other god-like figures in it that forgo Nirvana in order to help us on our road to enlightenment.

By World Soul I'm refering to the Hindu concept of Brahman. Basically all people are pieces of the same cosmic being/substance/reality. Since the OP is talking about how all of these past civilizations are really the Reapers, and that their combined conciousness is greater than ours they must be god.

[spacehamsterZH]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

 Wow. Totally wasn't expecting cheap shots to be taken at religion in here. Not at all.

I also wanted to point out that he has an Udina avatar, but I... exercised restraint.

[Billabong2011]

Are you kidding me?

[Dark_Caduceus]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

 Wow. Totally wasn't expecting cheap shots to be taken at religion in here. Not at all.

Well at least noboy belittled the Old Gods right?

*We all know Ry'llor is where it's at anyways.

[Kilshrek]

Oakenshield1 wrote...

Well seeing as temples have statues of Buddha everywhere, he's pretty much worshipped as a god. Buddhism also has other god-like figures in it that forgo Nirvana in order to help us on our road to enlightenment.

By World Soul I'm refering to the Hindu concept of Brahman. Basically all people are pieces of the same cosmic being/substance/reality. Since the OP is talking about how all of these past civilizations are really the Reapers, and that their combined conciousness is greater than ours they must be god.

I understand that view, but... it really is more complicated than that, about Buddhism, and I'd not like to derail the thread. And my understanding of Buddhism only comes from my Buddhist friend, so I'm not exactly a useful primary source.

The only problem with the Reapers being... gods, is that they are still individuals, after a fashion, at least until it was revealed they were mere toys, created by a petulant godchild who didn't like synthetics. (That's just me being angry at the ending). One cannot be mortal and immortal at the same time, and this isn't exactly Planescape, where gods can be brought down to be killed like a mortal.

[x0 Misfit 0x]

What? What does god, in any sense, have to do with the ending?

[Vaktathi]

Luzarius wrote...

Is this a good or bad thing? I hope over 60,000+ players respond to this thread with their honest & genuine conclusion.

I roleplayed my Shepard in a unique view, therefore I understood the ME3 ending. Does that make me a monster or a saint?

Did I understand why the normandy crashed? No. Did I understand how shep got back down to the surface of earth? No. But did I understand everything else? YES, to the highest degree. I've only seen the ending two times.


Luzarius
"yes, yes no link ...  I want your truth"

If you can take anything on blind faith then nothing is going to matter because it's all "gods will" and thus understanding is not required or necessary and anything can simply be hand-waived away, so any ending would really do. Relatively little in the game goes with a religious aspect explicitely.

If you're not imagining your Shep as a deeply religious character, which most people aren't, and can't waive everything away with a "faith" wand, then the ending makes absolutely no sense. Even with some magic "faith" wand, there's still some rather large plot holes (why was anything in ME1 necessary with the Starchild was there teh whole time? The reapers motives are stupid and easily broken by their own circular logic), and there's still the fact that the ending variation amounts a color filter for the most part that's a practical mirror of DeusEx's original ending from 12 years ago and varies little whether you played the bare minimum of ME3 or the full trilogy and all DLC content.

You can imagine your shep as some deeply religious character. The game doesn't have a ton of that content so its mostly in your own mind. If that's what you want your shep to be, fine, but it's not really the way most people took the character or a place the game goes a lot, especially not any specific or into anything of amn abrahamic religion specific nature.

As a result, the endings fail miserably outside of that, make almost no sense, and fail the narrative paradigm, reader-writer contract, and artistic intent up to the point miserably. It comes off like watching through Return of the Jedi and just after Luke talks with Vader-Returned-As-Anakin, jumps Luke to Heston's role in the Planet  of the Apes "Damn you all to hell!" scene in front of the ruined statue of liberty and ends right there on the beach.

Are you a bad person for thinking of your shepard the way you did? No. And if you like the ending as is, fine, but realize there are very real narrative issues with the ending otherwise for the vast majority of players.

What has made you come off badly is your previous topics where you insult other users saying they just "don't understand" it because they have no idea you functionally fan-fic'd your character and refused to explain your justifications and didn't address the issues everyone who didn't imagine their shep as something the game doesn't go into a whole lot.

Modifié par Vaktathi, 04 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

x0 Misfit 0x wrote...

What? What does god, in any sense, have to do with the ending?

Nothing.

[Mavaras]

Oakenshield1

Well seeing as temples have statues of Buddha everywhere, he's pretty much worshipped as a god. Buddhism also has other god-like figures in it that forgo Nirvana in order to help us on our road to enlightenment.

By World Soul I'm refering to the Hindu concept of Brahman. Basically all people are pieces of the same cosmic being/substance/reality. Since the OP is talking about how all of these past civilizations are really the Reapers, and that their combined conciousness is greater than ours they must be god.

I'm a Buddhist so I can attest that he is worshiped as a god by some; rightfully or wrongfully I will leave up to individuals to decide. All I know is that the Buddha himself stressed he wasn't a god, a wizard, or a supernatural being; just awake. Meditating on different avatars of things like compassion and wisdom definitely seems like deity worship at times. It is really a tricky subject.

Modifié par Mavaras, 04 avril 2012 - 02:00 .

[_Arkayne_]

How do people not realise that Science-Fiction,especially Mass Effect, directly contradicts religion.
The idea of the cycle requires evolution, therefore, no god.

[Occulo]

My Shepard killed a god in the first game, as did all the other Shepards. The difference is my Shepard did the smart thing and also ate the remains of that god, so my Shepard is now a god too.

[Dark_Caduceus]

_Arkayne_ wrote...

How do people not realise that Science-Fiction,especially Mass Effect, directly contradicts religion.
The idea of the cycle requires evolution, therefore, no god.

Evolution and belief in a deity are not mutually exclusive.

[_Arkayne_]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

_Arkayne_ wrote...

How do people not realise that Science-Fiction,especially Mass Effect, directly contradicts religion.
The idea of the cycle requires evolution, therefore, no god.

Evolution and belief in a deity are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry i meant most religions.

[sean10mm]

Slayer has a song called "God Hates Us All," so maybe this theory is on to something.

[Mavaras]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

_Arkayne_ wrote...

How do people not realise that Science-Fiction,especially Mass Effect, directly contradicts religion.
The idea of the cycle requires evolution, therefore, no god.

Evolution and belief in a deity are not mutually exclusive.

Good example is the Qontinuum from Star Trek:TNG; attaining god like powers through evolution.

Modifié par Mavaras, 04 avril 2012 - 02:03 .