45 réponses à ce sujet

[Iconoclaste]

The Reapers "got it", so they forced it down the throats of organics throughout the cycles.

[edwards_77]

This is why they must be destroyed.

[Aurvant]

The Reapers also recruited the Geth (the only synthetic race) to help them kill organics.

I know, totally makes sense (no it doesn't)

[Iconoclaste]

Maybe I should translate that one into more actual terms... hmmm...

[BurtieBee]

sargon1986 wrote...

BurtieBee wrote...

But eventually we would have gotten there, even without the Reapers' guiding hand. The Reapers aren't trying to help organics out of the cycle, so if it comes around a little sooner with their technology, they don't care. So by providing organics with advanced tech (the relays and Citadel, specifically), the Reapers can assure that everyone is all grouped together neatly when they come to harvest.

How do they know for sure that we would create AIs? They cant possible know that we would. The only they can be sure is by providing us with their tech. Which doesnt make any sense.

I think it's a case of predicting the future by learning from the past. They've seen it happen over and over, so they've drawn the conclusion that it's inevitable. Like I said, they're not trying to stop the cycle, just make it easier on themselves.

[Atrumitos]

I don't think the geth were based on reaper technology and the same goes for most of the stuff Javik talks about. The Rogue VI (AI, aka EDI) on luna wasn't based on reaper tech either.

Organics have the capacity to create AI, and thus synthetics, without the Reapers and their tech.

Sidenote, the rachni were turned into warmongering beasts by the Protheans actually. They're the ones who cultivated the warlike queens. Javik tells you as much.

[bryan12112]

Velocithon wrote...

ANYHOW. But isn't it a bit of a reach to say EVERY organic civilization will do it? And you can't say "well they did" because every single civilization known to us in the game created synthetics due to the Reaper tech. Without is, who knows if we'd ever done it.

Doesn't this kind of go with what BurtieBee pointed out, though? Only advanced civilizations discover the mass relays. If a civilization doesn't advance to the point where they become a spacefaring species, the Reapers leave them alone.

Edit: That is, unless other advanced species' land on these planets and teach them. Like they attempted to do with the Yahg.

Modifié par bryan12112, 04 avril 2012 - 02:05 .

[Serp86]

BurtieBee wrote...

sargon1986 wrote...

BurtieBee wrote...

But eventually we would have gotten there, even without the Reapers' guiding hand. The Reapers aren't trying to help organics out of the cycle, so if it comes around a little sooner with their technology, they don't care. So by providing organics with advanced tech (the relays and Citadel, specifically), the Reapers can assure that everyone is all grouped together neatly when they come to harvest.

How do they know for sure that we would create AIs? They cant possible know that we would. The only they can be sure is by providing us with their tech. Which doesnt make any sense.

I think it's a case of predicting the future by learning from the past. They've seen it happen over and over, so they've drawn the conclusion that it's inevitable. Like I said, they're not trying to stop the cycle, just make it easier on themselves.

Which is why destroy is the only logical solution. The other two make no sense at all and thats not even a discussion. Keeping alive something this flawed that killed god know how many trillions is way to dangerous. There's no gain from that only loss.

Modifié par Serp86, 04 avril 2012 - 02:00 .

[Iconoclaste]

BurtieBee wrote...

I think it's a case of predicting the future by learning from the past. They've seen it happen over and over, so they've drawn the conclusion that it's inevitable. Like I said, they're not trying to stop the cycle, just make it easier on themselves.

I "got that" from the story, too.

I only think it's a well known "fact" in science that since an observer is part of the "picture" he cannot imply having no influence in the events he is observing. The Reapers do not "imply" themselves in the process, and since they "always observed it", how can they assume that was the case even before they were created?

[sp0ck 06]

The Reapers aren't "saving us" from anything, they're enforcing a system of order on what they view as the chaos of organic evolution and progression.

[BurtieBee]

Iconoclaste wrote...

BurtieBee wrote...

I think it's a case of predicting the future by learning from the past. They've seen it happen over and over, so they've drawn the conclusion that it's inevitable. Like I said, they're not trying to stop the cycle, just make it easier on themselves.

I "got that" from the story, too.

I only think it's a well known "fact" in science that since an observer is part of the "picture" he cannot imply having no influence in the events he is observing. The Reapers do not "imply" themselves in the process, and since they "always observed it", how can they assume that was the case even before they were created?

I totally agree with this. I'm not defending the Reapers, only trying to put understanding to their thinking. Their logic was flawed, which is what I thought was the whole point of the story.  You know, Shepard fighting against this nebulous "eventuality" the Reapers keep telling us about. Hell, Shepard even proved that the cycle could be broken, which is what prompted the Catalyst's new "solutions". 

The point where we're supposed to meekly accept all this is where logic flew out the window.

[sean10mm]

WHAT about synthetics makes them inherently hostile to organic life? WHAT about an AI logically leads to a conclusion of "kill all organics"?

Nobody can answer this because there is no answer. It doesn't follow at all and is just a nonsense.

[BurtieBee]

Serp86 wrote...

Which is why destroy is the only logical solution. The other two make no sense at all and thats not even a discussion. Keeping alive something this flawed that killed god know how many trillions is way to dangerous. There's no gain from that only loss.

Destoy is my only ending too. Actually, my headcanon is Shepard telling Starchild exactly where it can shove its "solutions", and taking her chances by destroying the Reapers the good 'ole fashioned way.

[GiarcYekrub]

Serp86 wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

sargon1986 wrote...
Synthetics killing everyone to save them from synethtics is one thing... but before they kill the galaxy, they give everyone the technology to build synthetics - everything is based on Reaper technology right? They want us to evolve the way they want us to.

It's damn stupid..... -.-

No the Reapers are saving the lower species from us, like they saved us from the Protheans. They believe that advanced organic civilisations will, chaotic by nature, wipe out all life in the galaxy, prompted by an inevitable war with synthetics.

But why create  the Citadel and the Mass Relays or leave them intact ? Makes no sense they help us advance only to destroy us faster ?

That not a question that needs to be answered at this time, If Mass
Effect 3 provides all the answers then there would be no need for a Mass
Effect 4. Personally I look at it as a test for the galaxy to unite to build the catalyst so that the cycle could be broken, like in order to build it we had to achieve a level of understanding that would mean we were unlikely to destroy the galaxy going forward.

[dreman9999]

sean10mm wrote...

WHAT about synthetics makes them inherently hostile to organic life? WHAT about an AI logically leads to a conclusion of "kill all organics"?

Nobody can answer this because there is no answer. It doesn't follow at all and is just a nonsense.

It's not a sense that synthetics come to a concusion to kill organics...But the organics who attacks the synthetic and force them to fight back to live. And in the fight killing the organics or causign an wound so damaging that the organic can recover and die off.

[Maimh]

[/quote]
That not a question that needs to be answered at this time, If Mass
Effect 3 provides all the answers then there would be no need for a Mass
Effect 4. Personally I look at it as a test for the galaxy to unite to build the catalyst so that the cycle could be broken, like in order to build it we had to achieve a level of understanding that would mean we were unlikely to destroy the galaxy going forward.

[/quote]

Eeeh, there will not be a ME4, Bioware already said that. Any new game will be before the end of ME3

[dreman9999]

Serp86 wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

sargon1986 wrote...

Synthetics killing everyone to save them from synethtics is one thing... but before they kill the galaxy, they give everyone the technology to build synthetics - everything is based on Reaper technology right? They want us to evolve the way they want us to.

It's damn stupid..... -.-

No the Reapers are saving the lower species from us, like they saved us from the Protheans. They believe that advanced organic civilisations will, chaotic by nature, wipe out all life in the galaxy, prompted by an inevitable war with synthetics.

But why create  the Citadel and the Mass Relays or leave them intact ? Makes no sense they help us advance only to destroy us faster ?

That awnser is simple....It all about finding organics. Space is infinant. If the reaper were to try and find organic life without the mass relay trap, it would take billion on billion of year to find one race. The relays and the technoligy is just bait. Having organics spread out as they advance allows the power of the organicsfleet to be spread thin and easier to divide and take down.

[GiarcYekrub]

www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-03-bioware-suggests-keeping-mass-effect-3-saves

The only thing I've read is this the last Shepard story and last in this era, I haven't seen anything from them saying they won't go say 1000 into the future see Matriarch Liara's last days etc. And any Reaper origin questions can still be answered in a prequel anyway

[Maimh]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-03-bioware-suggests-keeping-mass-effect-3-saves

The only thing I've read is this the last Shepard story and last in this era, I haven't seen anything from them saying they won't go say 1000 into the future see Matriarch Liara's last days etc. And any Reaper origin questions can still be answered in a prequel anyway

Quote from the Finals Hours app:

Casey on after Mass Effect 3 said:
"Whatever we do would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after"

[Priviums]

They should never have given us the reapers purpose, Casey said there have always been mystery to the mass effect, well, that should be for the reapers and not major plot holes in the ending. TBH i would be fine with reapers remaining a mystery, it's better that way

[JShepppp]

sargon1986 wrote...

Synthetics killing everyone to save them from synethtics is one thing... but before they kill the galaxy, they give everyone the technology to build synthetics - everything is based on Reaper technology right? They want us to evolve the way they want us to.

It's damn stupid..... -.-

Reapers are really trying to stop the technological singularity. Saving from synthetics is an oversimplification that will lead to wrong perceptions of them and the Catalyst, I think. Check my sig for my long explanation of the Catalyst's logic - I don't want to bore or spam by writing the whole thing here. 

Sovvy saying races develop along the paths they desire is basically a way of saying it's easier to measure how advanced a race is if they're using your own technology. Then they have a clear definition of how advanced races are, and by extension, how close to the tech singularity they are. Then when they get close enough, the Reapers "save" (read: genocide) them.