283 réponses à ce sujet

[xSTONEYx187x]

spiros9110 wrote...

Rhalle wrote...

fchopin wrote...

ME2 is irrelevant to Mass Effect.

This.  

The Collectors exist so Bioware could run clock until the third installment.  Placing Cerberus center-stage nullified what was hinted at in ME1 for ME2:  two major game paths; a paragon pro-alien one, as well as a renegade path in which Shepard was aggressively pro-human and anti-alien, like Cerberus. Bioware also added the superfluous Collector plot, basically ignoring the Reapers until they absolutely had to explain them.

ME2 excels at cinematics. The admirable developer responsible for them, however, is no longer at Bioware. The companion-character portraits are of course great, some of the most entertaining and probably the deepest ever in a videogame. The cover-shooter mechanics and enemy AI are vastly improved over the first installment. However good or bad, ME2 (like ME1) doesn't feel rushed or incomplete. The overall experience-- and whatever ME2's realationship to ME1-- strikes one as fully realized.

But ME3 is a big stupid mess. It's not just the ending.  It feels like it could fly apart at any moment. All that holds it together are a couple of strong major sequences (which aren't without their major problems, too) and fan love for the returning characters. The ending is like a bullfighter's cape and the fans are the bull.  While they attack the cape, there's little focus on the rest.  Perhaps that's the purpose after all.

There is effectively no more Paragon or Renegade. The dialogue trees have been trimmed until they have two branches. Talent building requiring any real planning or foresight is gone. There's only one quest hub instead of many. Movement and lip-synch animations are worse than ME1. Levels are an A---->B rail ride (GO! GO! GO!) in the mode of CoD, and virtually all of them end in a GoW horde-mode. Auto-dialogue once restricted to DLC is now de riguer. Enemy variety is small, despite it having been A-OK for Bioware to have rehashed every last alien and monster model they've featured previously. Heavy weapons implementation is nonsensical.  Minigames are gone. Space ninjas? XXXtreme omni-blade fatalities. The Udina-works-for-Cerberus twist-device is stupid and transparent.  Choices mean nothing.  EMS means nothing. The quest log is the absolute worst to appear in a Bioware game and probably the worst in any big-budget title, ever. Most of the cerebral sciency stuff once found in the universe is gone. The sense of a great big vast and dangerous universe is gone. Writing effectively two games-- one for new players and one for veterans-- pushed returning characters into scenarios they otherwise would have never been in.  

(By the way that  is a major narratological issue that I'm not sure anyone has really discussed at any length; it's probably because the affected scenes are so overloaded with emotional impact that Bioware has gotten away with it.) 

And on top of all of it-- and there's lots more, of course-- the game clearly was rushed and is basically incomplete.

EA wants their very own billion-seller, and they will ruin IPs and studios to try to get it.  Lopping off the parts of an IP that made it respectable and gave it a fanbase to begin with, and then dressing it up as something that it is not, something antithetical to itself, something that resembles another franchise of whose sales figures you are envious-- is that going to get it done?  And doing all that destructive stuff in a utterly half-assed way?

Ten million sales? 

Never.  It will never happen.  Never, ever.  Never never ever ever.

Drew Karpyshyn

This.

I've been playing ME1 for the first time in years recently.  His stamp is all over it.  It's his universe, from the big picture down to the little details.  Clearly there are no more Drew Karpyshyn's working on ME.  There are only grinning EA managerial-director types making bastards out of his imaginative effort.

I hope Mr. Karpyshyn gets good royalties.

Basically sums it up for me.  

How did I miss this brilliant piece? Excellent statement, Rhalle. It's disheartening knowing what Mass Effect could have been. 

[Vormaerin]

AlanC9 wrote...

This seems a little unfair to ME2. Plenty of RPGs have structured their plots the same way. Most of BG2 is sidequests that have nothing to do with the PC or Irenicus. Two of DA:O's major required quests have nothing to do with the Blight or Loghain or anything else in the main plot.

Nah, if you go back to BG2 discussions, I said the same thing about how it encourages you to leave Imoen in the torture asylum for months while you happily adventure away.     Maybe its worse, because they still haven't learned to tell of the urgent threat without undercutting it with side quests that are time intensive in an in universe sense.

[jtrook]

I felt the characters in ME 2 were better fleshed out, The back stories, while irrelevant, were so interesting to learn about. All of them but one or two really brought life to them. ME 3, they have issues but a date on the Citadel will make it all better.

[Lazengan]

Rhalle wrote...


I hope Mr. Karpyshyn gets good royalties.

Remember the time that Activion fired many Infinity ward employees before they could receive their royalties for Modern Warfare 2? hmm...

Big business has corrupted and destroyed the gaming industry, the only good developpers left are indies, and that is until they grow big enough to get eaten or killed off by EA. 

Modifié par Lazengan, 19 juin 2012 - 02:43 .

[SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil]

[quote]Nefla wrote...
In ME2 I liked:

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-So much character interaction both with squadmates, crewmembers, and random NPCs[/quote]
According to the dev team, there is actually more in ME3

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Quests within quests ex: You go to recruit Thane but you can search out and rescue all the Salarian workers trapped in the building, also having conversations with them.[/quote]
You are comparing apples with pears. ME3 is a war scenario... something ME2 has nothing to do with.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Multiple safezones/hub worlds.[/quote]
...

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-You control all conversations (except generic stuff that anyone would say like "get us out of here Joker")[/quote]
No, you don't! Just about every single conversation with TIM made me shudder... I say: "No way, are you mad?", my Shep says it in a more civil manner... TIM totally ignores it and all possible outcomes melt down to one. Not that I mind, just to get yourself clear there...

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Middle option in all conversations, also investigate options in almost all conversations[/quote]
Which is still true in ME3

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Fun details of the world like listening in on the Salarian's bachelor party on Illium, listening to the Batarian preacher on Omega, hearing all the Tupari sports drink pitches on the citadel. Also citadel ads that were talking to you "commander Shepard, you've recently been dead. Don't you deserve the quality and distinction of a traditional Asari burial robe?" I loved those! Plus Citadel news net and news terminals. Other details like being able to crush and jettison trash in Zaeed's room and have EDI correct you for going into the wrong bathroom were fun too.[/quote]
The "bachelor party" in ME3 takes place in the hospital and is far more compelling then the one on Illium... Joker might think otherwise though if he knew.

There are plenty of other dialogues going on every where as well...

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Your crewmembers have something to say during every mission. They always comment on your actions and the situation such as Garrus commenting on hospitals being crappy to fight in and a classy antique store would be better XD Or if you send the Biotic God to his death Jack says "That was mean...but funny!" Stuff like that adds more life to the game and makes it seem as though you're not fighting alone with 2 robots following you. [/quote]
This is also still going on, it just depends on the characters you choose for a mission.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-ME2 was completely character driven and characters are one of the top reason I play a game. I loved doing all the loyalty missions.[/quote]
Because you were driven by a definition... "LOYALITY mission" = IMPORTANT; "mission to save the galaxy" = "Maehhhh"

Get a Grip!

It's not for loyality of a single person anymore... it's for the sake of the whole!

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-ME2 had varied missions and self contained goals/stories. I always felt like I was acomplishing something and there was always something interesting to learn or do. On Jacob's loyalty mission you find all these crazy people plus a slave harem all orchestrated by his father, they were all interesting like that. In ME3 a lot of the time I was like "what am I doing here again?" as I fought through wave after wave of the same 2 types of enemies: Cerberus, and reaper husks. No conversations mid mission, nothing cool to discover or learn, no decisions in all but 3 and that was at the very end of each one. Mars was the exception, it reminded me more of the ME2 missions. Also non-combat missions made an interesting change. Sammara's loyalty mission was one of my favorites.[/quote]
Agree here! ME3's single player mode, definitely tries to get you ready for multiplayer mode!

[quote]Nefla wrote...-The romances were really fleshed out and cool (except Garrus but he made up for it in ME3)[/quote]
They were just as good in ME1 and ME3, except for Garrus, he was only good in ME3.. when he romanced Tali.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-You saw the consequences of your choices from ME1, sometimes in a few different ways. EX: if you let the council die not only does the new council want nothing to do with you (and I think you can't get your spectre status back) but certain NPCs are hostile towards you and there is a general anti-human attitude going around. You hear from the Rachni queen, Helena Blake, Fist, Nassana Dantius, etc...[/quote]
I actually heard from the Rachni queen in ME3... didn't answer the phone after that anymore...

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Shepard's stirring, epic speeches! (also in ME1) I felt very inspired like "Yeah we're gonna win this!" In ME3 no Shepard speech/peptalk [/quote]
Whom should he have spoken to - the holographs of his buddies?

-You can see Shepard's cybernetic enhancements in action such as:
            -Using extremely heavy rifles no human should be able to use without shattering their bones yep
            -Headbutting Krogan without being Injured nope
            -Melee with the Shadow Broker O_O nope
            -Throwing Turians in a bar fight nope
            -Lifting big heavy slabs of metal off of fallen squadmates maybe

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Shepard is very impressive! Shepard is human with feelings but also larger than life, he is very capable and determined and can do things most others could never do. Shepard of ME2 would never accept defeat, would never stop thinking for himself and say "I...don't know" when talking to the boss of the reapers, with everything hanging in the balance. Shepard would be able to find a way to win. In ME3 Shepard is just a normal person who is not impressive. The most impressive thing about him is his diplomatic skills. He's now a politician instead of a hero..[/quote]
That is SO wrong, I can't even call it perceptually biased. Shepard is a human being... and behaving like one as well! He has never been a superhero, he just has more energy then most other beings. In the end of ME3 he is far over the limit and it shows. Makes Shepard human again... because he is, because he always was!

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Cerberus and TIM were very interesting in ME2. They were the only ones doing good for humanity but they had a horrible past and also you continue to find gruesome things they are doing. You never know for sure one way or the other. In ME3 they are one dimensional throw-away villians. It would have been cool if in ME3 you were faced with the possibility of fighting Jacob or Miranda.[/quote]
True!

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Paragon and renegade were completely different
               In ME2 traumatized Salarian worker points gun at you saying "please don't make me hurt you!":
                       -Paragon: "It's ok, you're safe now"
                       -Renegade: (Beats worker into unconsciousness) "Hurt me? I hardly felt a thing"
               In ME3 Anderson is saying he wants to stay on Earth and lead the troops
                        -Paragon: "We're in this fight together Anderson!"
                        -Renegade: "We're In this fight together!"
In ME3 Shepard was way more paragon by default. He would act automatically without your consent. He would console people you wanted to insult, automatic buddies with Liara who I dislike, etc...[/quote]
Totally not true! Shepard often gives renegade answers no matter what you choose.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I like the suicide mission and all the elements that went into it: picking the exact right people for each job, getting their loyalty, getting ship upgrades.[/quote]
Yep... your liking.

[quote]Nefla wrote...-I like the tense, yet hopeful ending of ME2. (and it made sense!)[/quote]
Not really, to be honest. If you destroyed the base, it is gone. If you saved it, but defied Cerberus (taking the Reaper FFS along) nobody would have been able to travel there ever again.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I like boss battles and I like that each one was different. In ME3 the only Boss battles were all Kai Leng and they were easy and boring. No final boss [/quote]
Compared to ALL the Boss battles in ME2... yeah, right, I count two!

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Femshep had MUCH better clothes in ME2 and her body didn't look all saggy, dumpy and gross like in ME3. (and I say this from a woman's perspective)[/quote]
Erm...

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I liked being able to talk to all the squad after each mission. I hate autodialogue. (well Kasumi and Zaeed actually had interesting stuff to say)I hate Shepard doing things and making decisions without me. Apparently Shep and Steve were screwing around behind my back. I was like "What? When did this happen? "[/quote]
So, Kasumi and Zaeed had interesting stuff to say, 'cause they were in ME2, right? I actually think the ME3 "crew" had a lot more interesting, and especially NON repeating stuff to say.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I liked side missions in ME2. Also liked that you could find them by scanning a planet then land on it and do the mission. I HATE the fetch quests of ME3 and DA2.[/quote]
Yeah, and you also hated the "Grissom Academy", and "Tuchanka bomb" quests in ME3... badly done side quests... <_<

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I miss the hacking mini games T_T[/quote]
We all do dear... we all do *crosses fingers behind back*
[/quote]

Modifié par SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil, 19 juin 2012 - 03:09 .

[AlanC9]

Vormaerin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
This seems a little unfair to ME2. Plenty of RPGs have structured their plots the same way. Most of BG2 is sidequests that have nothing to do with the PC or Irenicus. Two of DA:O's major required quests have nothing to do with the Blight or Loghain or anything else in the main plot.

Nah, if you go back to BG2 discussions, I said the same thing about how it encourages you to leave Imoen in the torture asylum for months while you happily adventure away.     Maybe its worse, because they still haven't learned to tell of the urgent threat without undercutting it with side quests that are time intensive in an in universe sense.

Hey, as long as you're being consistent I've got no objections. But there aren't too many RPGs that will pass those standards, except for games like Morrowind where the main plot isn't supposed to be urgent. ME2's actually relatively good on this scale, since  -- with the glaring exception of the Reaper IFF mission -- while you're doing the recruitment and loyalty missions there isn't any feasible way to attack the Collectors, and after the IFF's working there are consequences for delay.

ME3 isn't terrible here either, IMO. The game world's constraint on launching the final attack isn't under Shepard's control, though thanks to the miracle of game design coincidences the Alliance's preparations advance exactly in proportion to how far Shepard has progressed through the main plot. Plus, of course, the key component that gets discovered at the last minute.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 juin 2012 - 05:56 .

[BatmanPWNS]

ME2 had the best last mission in the ME series, ME3 had the opposite.

[Rockworm503]

I'll go even further and say the only thing ME3 has better than 2 is the combat.

[Candidate 88766]

ME1 had a great story, but once you've experienced a story once the twists lose their impact. The gameplay was nothing to shout about either. The main reason I kept coming back to ME1 was the characters, so ME2 - being almost entirely focused on both new and old characters - is pretty much my perfect Mass Effect game. Sure, the story was probably the weakest of the three, but the fact that it wasn't as exciting as ME1's or ME3's stories actually encouraged me to take my time with the game. ME1 in particular works best kind of pushes you to continue the story. There are a lot of side missions, but the story draws you in. ME2's story, by 'virtue' of being a bit dull by comparison, ends up encouraging the player to take their time; to get to know the characters, and experience all of their stories.

ME2's story didn't really advance the main plot much, and while it did set up a lot of the sub-plots for ME3 - the Genophage, the geth, etc - looking back it does basically seem like filler. It was just an excuse to get to know more characters and spend more time in the ME universe, and frankly that was all I wanted. As good as ME1's story was, I never found the main plot to be as interesting as the characters and their stories and so a whole game devoted to that is fantastic. The fact that so many people love ME2, and the fact that its got one of the highest aggregate critical ratings of all time despite not really advancing the plot all that much is a testament to just how well Bioware did the characters.

So, yeah - basically the characters. The focus on characters makes ME2 better than either ME1 or ME3 imo.

[Rauhallinen]

For me ME2 was clearly the weakest part of the trilogy.

Just a very generic group gathering event for a boring mission at the end that had the dumbest last boss ever. After first playtrough, I just couldn't believe that that was all the game had in it. The story is basicly shallow like a Hollywood action flick.

[Lopake]

 ME2 isn't better 

[budzai]

ME 2 was the worst from the series:
- it started to give too big role to Cerberus ( realy that much resources and troops they have ridiculous)
- thermal clips (boring everywhere used system) (atleast they should add universal thermal clips which can cool down evry type of weapons inmediatly and you can take just around 5 with you)
- abilities which not fit in the universum ( tactitacl cloack, Charge they are just too fancy)
- boring missions (expect the Suicide Mission and the derelic reaper, man they should make an MP map which take you inside a Capital Ship Reaper)
- collectors make no sense after the first episode... why the reapers don't use them first instead of the geth?
- weapons are too easy to use... in ME1 it was realy a satisfaction too kill something with the sniper rifle when you have just a few point on the talent...
- small maps, no big area where sniper rifle can be used propery

Modifié par budzai, 19 juin 2012 - 02:17 .

[fiendishchicken]

Miranda Lawson. 'nuff said.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

It had a satisfying ending and a true villain throughout, Harbinger. instead of no closure and constantly shifting villains.

[Elk Cloner]

Miranda Lawson.

[AdamWeith]

I think ME2 is the best installment in the series.
What impresses me most is how the main questline has you going from world to world collecting party members instead of the usual "go to 4 regions and collect what we need to beat the antagonist". I think it was ingenious to focus on the party members this time around.

Then there's also the loyalty quests where you get to know your party members even more. I really would've wanted a quest like that when it came to James Vega in ME3. (It may be wartime, but Vega is a soldier and an N7 candidate. They would've been able to put in some kind of Vega-centered mission that would've made sense.)

I also love the fact that you're working for a terrorist organization instead of the good nation (Systems Alliance, Galactic Republic, Ferelden) and the good special group (Spectres, Jedi Order, Grey Wardens). The Illusive Man is a great boss, and the icing on the cake is when you resign in his face in the end.

None of the ME games have bad music, quite the opposite, but if I have to pick a favourite I'd pick ME2. Suicide Mission is so damn powerful.

Speaking of the suicide mission, I love the ending of ME2. The last boss could've been better, but I love the mission design where squad members can die if you pick poorly, the constant suspense and danger, and the end scenes with the Illusive Man.

I also love how they removed the gear system from ME1 (which had the worst gear system I have ever seen in a video game) and how they improved combat and made it less clumsy. Cover pieces were all too obvious though, and gave away when a fight would start. I like the addition of armor and barrier health bars, and how they gave classes more fun powers and made them more unique.

So yeah, that's why I love ME2 the most.

fiendishchicken wrote...

Miranda Lawson. 'nuff said.

Aye. When Liara didn't join me on Illium, I went with Miranda instead. Damn, does that Cerberus hottie got back.
Went back to Liara in ME3, though.

Modifié par AdamWeith, 19 juin 2012 - 03:09 .

[Raizo]

I prefer the way ME2 is paced compared to ME1 and ME3. It's a very hard thing for me to describe in words but I feel that ME2 got the pacing right where ME1 and ME3 did not.

Lazarus Station, Freedoms Progress and then you get control of the Normandy and you have a choice of 2 hub worlds, 4 storyline ( recruitment ) missions and a small handful of side missions that could be tackled in any order at any time. Once the 4 storyline missions are done you have Horizon, access to 2 more hub worlds, 4 more storyline ( recruitment ) missions open up as well as a bunch of Loyalty missions, star charts can be bought that alow you to explore more of the galaxy ( and tackle more side missions which can be done at any time ), then you have the Collector Ship and then the Dead Reaper and from there you can access the Omega 4 Relay if you feel you are ready enough.

I felt like ME2 gave us the right balance of storyline/side missions, the right amount of linearity and exploration as well as the best paced plot and sense of urgency. ME1 wasnot linear enough too much freedom of choice and the plot lost it's urgency. ME3 was too linear and everything else that made the ME Universe so exciting went right out the window and made ME3 feel empty and shallow and soulless.

I also felt that ME2 had the best characters and did the most service to ME lore and Universe.

Modifié par Raizo, 19 juin 2012 - 04:21 .

[AlanC9]

I think people just come down in different favorite places on the freedom/linearity scale. I'm pretty far towards liking linearity (and I guess Vormaerin's a little further along than I am, at least when playing the sort of supposedly-urgent plot that Bio likes to use.)

In my case, I think it's because I played PnP first, so looking at a big map and thinking about where I want to go next just doesn't strike me as an important, or even a good, part of the RPG experience.

[Newnation]

I guess I'm in the minority. I love all three games from reverse. I like 3 better than 2 and 2 better than 1.

In ME 3, I loved the interactions with your squad and a lot of the missions were incredibly epic. The combat and controls was also how I wished Shepard would move around in game instead of just cutscenes. Ashley also seemed more likable. The only things I really hated about 3 was that the ME 2 squadmates didn't get much facetime. I also hated all the fetch quests. I think they should have been more involved. I hate how you have to play multiplayer to get your ems score up to experience every possible ending. I hope they add more dlc so you wont have to play mp all the time. Last but not least, I wasn't pleased with the last 3 or 4 minutes of the game.

With ME 2, I hated how they didn't flesh out the Collectors more. The VS didn't get as much time as Wrex and Liara. The squad was great and it was great to bump into a lot of the npcs from the first game. Overlord and LOTSB were incredible pieces of dlc.

In ME, I hated the inventory system. I ****ing hated it. The gameplay is terrible compared to the last two games. The side missions aren't as cinematic as they are in 2 and 3. I'm ak=lso one of the few that loved the mako.  Being introduced to the world and characters was also incredible.

I've never played TOR before but I will say that ME and KOTOR are my favorite game series.

[o Ventus]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Miranda Lawson. 'nuff said.

Indeed. I admit, I didn't much like her at first, but she grew on me and now she's my favorite ME character.

She's incredibly useful in combat. has an interesting backstory, and has (imo) the best romance. It's a win-win.

[Blueprotoss]

Lazengan wrote...

Rhalle wrote...


I hope Mr. Karpyshyn gets good royalties.

Remember the time that Activion fired many Infinity ward employees before they could receive their royalties for Modern Warfare 2? hmm...

Big business has corrupted and destroyed the gaming industry, the only good developpers left are indies, and that is until they grow big enough to get eaten or killed off by EA. 

Yet you seem to forget that Zampella and West broke their contracts, which caused thier termination while we won't find out every based on most of the case is still hush hush.

Businesses do need money to create products especially when it takes millions of dollars to write, develope, market, and ship games.  I'm surprised Nintendo isn't getting crucified at all based on EA's practices are used by most of the video game Publishers and Developers.  I'm not a fan of EA while its useless to beat a dead horse.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 20 juin 2012 - 04:33 .

[TheJiveDJ]

1. No Drew K.
2. Mac Walters
3. EA
4. Dat Star Child

[Nefla]

[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
[quote]Nefla wrote...
In ME2 I liked:
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-So much character interaction both with squadmates, crewmembers, and random NPCs[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
According to the dev team, there is actually more in ME3[/quote]
According to the devs, we wouldn't get an ABC ending, multiplayer wouldn't affect single player, your choices would matter, and we could get all ending content through SP alone...we see how well that worked out.  Also the bulk of ME3 squadmate dialogue is autodialogue where you are not interacting with them and can't choose how Shepard responds. No thanks.
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Quests within quests ex: You go to recruit Thane but you can search out and rescue all the Salarian workers trapped in the building, also having conversations with them.[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
You are comparing apples with pears. ME3 is a war scenario... something ME2 has nothing to do with.[/quote]
What does ME3 being a "war scenario" have to do with having extra content in missions? The Tuchanka bomb mission would have benefited IMO from being able to talk to the groups of Turians and optionally do something like find them a missing part to their shuttle on the battlefield so they can get out safely or SOMETHING other than go along on one unbranching path and fight wave after wave of enemies.
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Multiple safezones/hub worlds.[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
...
[/quote] Your insight is amazing...

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-You control all conversations (except generic stuff that anyone would say like "get us out of here Joker")[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
No, you don't! Just about every single conversation with TIM made me shudder... I say: "No way, are you mad?", my Shep says it in a more civil manner... TIM totally ignores it and all possible outcomes melt down to one. Not that I mind, just to get yourself clear there...[/quote]
Even if in ME2 Shepard has a slightly different tone of voice than you wanted, you still get to pick what he says every time. In ME3 there are way too many times when Shepard just says whatever without your input. It's one of the top complaints about ME3
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Middle option in all conversations, also investigate options in almost all conversations[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Which is still true in ME3[/quote]
Like 2 conversations in the entire game have a middle choice. Not the same thing as nearly EVERY conversation or choice in ME3 having a middle option. Another common complaint.
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Fun details of the world like listening in on the Salarian's bachelor party on Illium, listening to the Batarian preacher on Omega, hearing all the Tupari sports drink pitches on the citadel. Also citadel ads that were talking to you "commander Shepard, you've recently been dead. Don't you deserve the quality and distinction of a traditional Asari burial robe?" I loved those! Plus Citadel news net and news terminals. Other details like being able to crush and jettison trash in Zaeed's room and have EDI correct you for going into the wrong bathroom were fun too.[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
The "bachelor party" in ME3 takes place in the hospital and is far more compelling then the one on Illium... Joker might think otherwise though if he knew.
There are plenty of other dialogues going on every where as well...[/quote]
The dialogue about Joker's sister was good although it was the only remarkable thing you hear or see in the background. The lighthearted things such as the advertisements are gone entirely, the newsfeeds that reflect your choices are gone, that one conversation doesn't make up for everything that's gone. (and I don't see overhearing crap like finding egg heaters for a fetch quest to be interesting to overhear in the slightest)
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Your crewmembers have something to say during every mission. They always comment on your actions and the situation such as Garrus commenting on hospitals being crappy to fight in and a classy antique store would be better XD Or if you send the Biotic God to his death Jack says "That was mean...but funny!" Stuff like that adds more life to the game and makes it seem as though you're not fighting alone with 2 robots following you. [/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
This is also still going on, it just depends on the characters you choose for a mission.[/quote]
They may say something short in the shuttle but they don't comment on what you do...not that there's really anything TO do in most missions other than run down a path and shoot enemies.
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-ME2 was completely character driven and characters are one of the top reason I play a game. I loved doing all the loyalty missions.[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Because you were driven by a definition... "LOYALITY mission" = IMPORTANT; "mission to save the galaxy" = "Maehhhh"
Get a Grip!
It's not for loyality of a single person anymore... it's for the sake of the whole![/quote] You are not understanding me AT ALL. I want the npcs and squadmates to have depth like they did in the first 2 games. I want to care about what I'm doing and why I'm there. This is not the real world, this is a story. If it were real life, the destruction of the Earth would be important to everyone, we live here and we're all going to die. In a story "save the world/universe" is so extremely cliche, the story has to be really well written to make it interesting and the characters have to give a face to the faceless universe. Why would I care if Tuchanka was overrun by reapers if I hadn't been given Wrex in ME1 as a face to the Krogan, he shows you the feelings of his people and that they can just mindless throw-away brutes. In ME2 you had so much interaction with your crew and NPCs it was great! DA:O had the exact same story as ME3 and you had even more interaction with your followers and other characters. The world was given depth and I was made to care about different issues in this way.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-ME2 had varied missions and self contained goals/stories. I always felt like I was acomplishing something and there was always something interesting to learn or do. On Jacob's loyalty mission you find all these crazy people plus a slave harem all orchestrated by his father, they were all interesting like that. In ME3 a lot of the time I was like "what am I doing here again?" as I fought through wave after wave of the same 2 types of enemies: Cerberus, and reaper husks. No conversations mid mission, nothing cool to discover or learn, no decisions in all but 3 and that was at the very end of each one. Mars was the exception, it reminded me more of the ME2 missions. Also non-combat missions made an interesting change. Sammara's loyalty mission was one of my favorites.[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Agree here! ME3's single player mode, definitely tries to get you ready for multiplayer mode!
 
Nefla wrote...-The romances were really fleshed out and cool (except Garrus but he made up for it in ME3)
They were just as good in ME1 and ME3, except for Garrus, he was only good in ME3.. when he romanced Tali. [/quote]
I agree about ME1, not ME3. Garrus' was good and long, but Kaidan's Steves, All ME2 LIs, etc...had like 2 romantic conversations/interactions in the entire games.
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-You saw the consequences of your choices from ME1, sometimes in a few different ways. EX: if you let the council die not only does the new council want nothing to do with you (and I think you can't get your spectre status back) but certain NPCs are hostile towards you and there is a general anti-human attitude going around. You hear from the Rachni queen, Helena Blake, Fist, Nassana Dantius, etc...[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
I actually heard from the Rachni queen in ME3... didn't answer the phone after that anymore... [/quote]
The Rachni queen didn't count in the opposite way. Rather than her not show up even if you save her, she does show up even if you kill her. That's much worse (and frankly retarded) IMO.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Shepard's stirring, epic speeches! (also in ME1) I felt very inspired like "Yeah we're gonna win this!" In ME3 no Shepard speech/peptalk [/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Whom should he have spoken to - the holographs of his buddies?[/quote]
Did you actually play ME3? Hackett steals the perfect opportunity for a Shepard speech and gives his own on the Normandy. 

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Shepard is very impressive! Shepard is human with feelings but also larger than life, he is very capable and determined and can do things most others could never do. Shepard of ME2 would never accept defeat, would never stop thinking for himself and say "I...don't know" when talking to the boss of the reapers, with everything hanging in the balance. Shepard would be able to find a way to win. In ME3 Shepard is just a normal person who is not impressive. The most impressive thing about him is his diplomatic skills. He's now a politician instead of a hero..[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
That is SO wrong, I can't even call it perceptually biased. Shepard is a human being... and behaving like one as well! He has never been a superhero, he just has more energy then most other beings. In the end of ME3 he is far over the limit and it shows. Makes Shepard human again... because he is, because he always was![/quote]
See I like having the option of having Shepard totally worn down and angsty about everything. It would fit the personality of some of my paragon sheps, but my renegade sheps would not care about all that stuff, and seeing him dream about the little boy who he saw for like 2 seconds and be all guilt ridden and emo about it is so weird and out of character. There should be a balance of humanity and heroics/competency. In ME2 there was, especially in LotSB but in ME3 Shepard is a wet noodle and the equivalent of an average grunt no matter what.
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Cerberus and TIM were very interesting in ME2. They were the only ones doing good for humanity but they had a horrible past and also you continue to find gruesome things they are doing. You never know for sure one way or the other. In ME3 they are one dimensional throw-away villians. It would have been cool if in ME3 you were faced with the possibility of fighting Jacob or Miranda.[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
True![/quote]

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Paragon and renegade were completely different
               In ME2 traumatized Salarian worker points gun at you saying "please don't make me hurt you!":
                       -Paragon: "It's ok, you're safe now"
                       -Renegade: (Beats worker into unconsciousness) "Hurt me? I hardly felt a thing"
               In ME3 Anderson is saying he wants to stay on Earth and lead the troops
                        -Paragon: "We're in this fight together Anderson!"
                        -Renegade: "We're In this fight together!"
In ME3 Shepard was way more paragon by default. He would act automatically without your consent. He would console people you wanted to insult, automatic buddies with Liara who I dislike, etc...[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Totally not true! Shepard often gives renegade answers no matter what you choose.[/quote]
You and I must have been playing separate games, because that NEVER happened to me in my all paragon playthroughs though renegade shep often came off as nice/polite even when I wanted to say "shut up and go **** yourself." In ME2 you could outright antagonize people. For instance you can say to Joker and EDI something like "What is this highschool?! Both of you find something better to do with your time" and in a similar situation in ME3 when EDI asks you about being more human the renegade response is "I'm not the best person to ask about something like this."
 
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I like the suicide mission and all the elements that went into it: picking the exact right people for each job, getting their loyalty, getting ship upgrades.[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Yep... your liking.[/quote]
No ****, everything in this novel of a post is about what I like. Thus the opening line "In ME2 I liked"

Nefla wrote...-I like the tense, yet hopeful ending of ME2. (and it made sense!)
Not really, to be honest. If you destroyed the base, it is gone. If you saved it, but defied Cerberus (taking the Reaper FFS along) nobody would have been able to travel there ever again.[/quote]
That was a shortcomming of ME3 NOT ME2. Your choices should have mattered but they didn't. Saved the council? Killed the council? Exact same outcome with exactly the same quests either way. Same with councilor choice, rachni queen, cerberus base, etc...none of it matters in ME3 at all.
[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I like boss battles and I like that each one was different. In ME3 the only Boss battles were all Kai Leng and they were easy and boring. No final boss [/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Compared to ALL the Boss battles in ME2... yeah, right, I count two![/quote]
You must be senile then because in ME2 you have:
-The first Ymir(?) mech
-Jedore
-Warden Kuril(sp?)
-Gunship during Garrus recruitment
-Wasea
-Horizon Praetorian
-Thresher maw
-Uvenk
-Werlock chief
-Enyala(?) from Miranda's loyalty mission
-Reaper larva
And those are just the ones my tired brain can think of off the top of my head.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-Femshep had MUCH better clothes in ME2 and her body didn't look all saggy, dumpy and gross like in ME3. (and I say this from a woman's perspective)[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Erm...[/quote]
Seriously, why reply to something if you have nothing to say?

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I liked being able to talk to all the squad after each mission. I hate autodialogue. (well Kasumi and Zaeed actually had interesting stuff to say)I hate Shepard doing things and making decisions without me. Apparently Shep and Steve were screwing around behind my back. I was like "What? When did this happen? "[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
So, Kasumi and Zaeed had interesting stuff to say, 'cause they were in ME2, right? I actually think the ME3 "crew" had a lot more interesting, and especially NON repeating stuff to say.[/quote]
Yeah, I am so stupid I like things for the sole reason that they are in ME2. Now it all makes sense! I don't like multiple dialogue choices because it adds to the depth of the story and character building, I like it because it's in ME2! Please. Obviously the Kasumi/Zaeed autodialogue is inferior to real conversations with the dialogue wheel, that's my point. DLC characters you'd expect to have little depth of conversation and interaction, but all your squad in ME3 does this and it's usually only one line. I'd much rather hear Zaeed tell me his old man stories about Jessie and missions where he was "the only one to make it out alive" than hearing Garrus say "So, who do we kill next time?" Or Kaidan tell you he has a headache. But more than that I don't want any autodialogue or shallow interactions, I want a conversation!

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I liked side missions in ME2. Also liked that you could find them by scanning a planet then land on it and do the mission. I HATE the fetch quests of ME3 and DA2.[/quote]
[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
Yeah, and you also hated the "Grissom Academy", and "Tuchanka bomb" quests in ME3... badly done side quests... [/quote]
Yeah because that's totally what I said! Oh wait no it's not. A fetch quest is where you hear some Volus talk about an obelisk and without any conversation you just fly there. Then without any actual mission you scan a planet, get the obelisk, and give it to the guy still without a conversation. Wow, how fun! Those things are total timewasters. I think the Grissom Academy quest is one of the best in the game because you can stop at several periods, rescue random students, talk to Jack and her students, find out more about the situation, and your choice in Overlord actually shows up. The whole quest is very ME2 and ME2 quests I love for the reasons listed above. They are not about just waves of shooting and straight paths like your typical ME3 quest.

[quote]Nefla wrote...
-I miss the hacking mini games T_T[/quote]
[/quote]

[quote]SeeNoEvilHearNoEvil wrote...
We all do dear... we all do *crosses fingers behind back*
[/quote]
What was the point of this? Your whole post reads like "boohoo your opinion is wrong."
 
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