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[shamE12]

Capeo wrote...

byne wrote...

Capeo wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

byne wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Dream Tension - sorry I didnt mean to offend. I just find the theory to be sort of funny, that's all.

@McFly616 - the endings paper from Mac Walters in the final hours app. It pretty much shows that he wasn't under the influence of indoctrination.

-Polite

While I'm not going to go so far as to say that they actually did this, if you were holding out until PAX to reveal IT, would you really show a random third party group papers you had discussing it before doing so?

It'd be like if before Sixth Sense came out, Bruce Willis went out and did interviews saying "I turn out to be a ghost in the end, but dont let anyone know, this is just a secret between you, me, and the video camera!"

Yeah...something about the Final Hours App is just odd.  Like they are giving clues then backtracking.  I need to read the whole thing to be fully educated because a lot of the quotes seem out of context.

The FinalHours app has absolutely nothing to do with EA or Bioware and they can't control its content.  The guy who made it is a game journalist.  He has done FinalHours for other games like Portal 2.  

They can control its content by deciding what they allow the journalist to see. Its not like they just say 'Yeah, here are all of our past, present, and future plans, please take pictures of them.'

They gave him full access.  This is what people don't get.  BW loved the endings.  They've had them planned this way for ages.  They were expecting nothing but accolades from the fans.  They weren't worried about hiding their "brilliance".  

There is no conspiracy afoot, no hidden ending and no new ending coming.  The game is done as far as BW is concerned.  The most we may get is some "clarifying" epilogues that likely won't even have VA.

Well, back to fallout..........

[Taboo]

Deventh wrote...

My guess is that they're waiting for PAX to move by and then start working on it. That's what i think at least.

They're in too deep.

[Mcfly616]

@Capeo

Are you serious? Haha....KotOR(Revan), ME1(Citadel/mass relays aren't Prothean tech, they're Reaper traps) ME2(Collectors are Prothean)....

And if you read my whole post you would see that I stated, I didn't expect them to do the twist at the end....nobody did....they've pulled twists in many games, just not at the end....

These twist may not seem significant now, but back then they were earth shattering.....KotORs twist is one of the best in videogame history imo....

[Galifreya]

count_4 wrote...

Question is: Does she know what the ending looks like in the released game? Maybe she already recorded the real ending unknowing that it's not included yet.

Straws - I likes them.

She does not play the games. She's stated this in an interview before. Nope, don't have a source. So she very well could have already recorded further dialogue. Most of the actors have been very silent about the ending. They haven't  gone into specifics yet. Probably in their contracts.

[Capeo]

shamE12 wrote...

Well, back to fallout..........

Fallout didn't change the end of the game.  It changed nothing plot wise.  The water purifying plant gets fixed no matter what.  All Broken Steel did was let you continue after that point like an Elder Scrolls game.  It changed nothing in-game.

[Apathy1989]

To be honest I would be very surprised if she was informed of anything at this point. BW are still probably trying to figure out what to do.


And as Hale said - endings are hard.

[Brother Takka]

count_4 wrote...

Question is: Does she know what the ending looks like in the released game? Maybe she already recorded the real ending unknowing that it's not included yet.

Straws - I likes them.

Hope. and

[balance5050]

She has said before that she doesn't even play the games, so she could have recorded the real endings already and not realize it.

[Capeo]

Mcfly616 wrote...

@Capeo

Are you serious? Haha....KotOR(Revan), ME1(Citadel/mass relays aren't Prothean tech, they're Reaper traps) ME2(Collectors are Prothean)....

And if you read my whole post you would see that I stated, I didn't expect them to do the twist at the end....nobody did....they've pulled twists in many games, just not at the end....

These twist may not seem significant now, but back then they were earth shattering.....KotORs twist is one of the best in videogame history imo....

You really need to look up what a twist is because none of the above count.  That's just plotting.  A twist makes everything that came before it in the plot wrong or misleading intentionally.

[shamE12]

Capeo wrote...

shamE12 wrote...

Well, back to fallout..........

Fallout didn't change the end of the game.  It changed nothing plot wise.  The water purifying plant gets fixed no matter what.  All Broken Steel did was let you continue after that point like an Elder Scrolls game.  It changed nothing in-game.

I know that. What I meant was if what your saying is the **** we are getting then I'm dropping bioware games completly and going back to betheda for rpgs.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Capeo wrote...

shamE12 wrote...

Well, back to fallout..........

Fallout didn't change the end of the game.  It changed nothing plot wise.  The water purifying plant gets fixed no matter what.  All Broken Steel did was let you continue after that point like an Elder Scrolls game.  It changed nothing in-game.

I didn't play Fallout 3 with Broken Steel, but I'm pretty sure it changed the player's existence state after fixing the plant from "dead" to "not dead." So, if you think your own mortality counts as nothing in-game, then sure. Also, it raised the level cap to 30 and added about 5 hours of content that can only be played after fixing the plant.

But yeah, that's all "nothing."

[Mcfly616]

Capeo wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Dream Tension - sorry I didnt mean to offend. I just find the theory to be sort of funny, that's all.

@McFly616 - the endings paper from Mac Walters in the final hours app. It pretty much shows that he wasn't under the influence of indoctrination.

-Polite

Polite:
No worries with me...I'm not offended by anything that you said.  I just meant I wasn't going to talk about the IDT being disproved because I didn't want this to go in that direction.
It's all good.


The Final Hours app has become the number one source of disproven the IDT.  It's interesting.  I don't have it (nor do I plan on purchasing until the endings are 'fixed').  I don't have a retort because I don't know exactly what was said.

I'm aware of the Final Hours app....I know a lot of people say its concrete proof that IDT is not true...

But for me I've always found it curious....

You see, I didn't come here and find out about the IDT and become a believer.....for me, I always thought something was up from the moment I saw the "Breathe Scene"....from my first playthrough, after seeing that scene, I just took it as that "Ah haa" moment....that Bioware twist that's in nearly everyone of their games....

I found it funny because when I bought the game, the first thing I thought of was "I wonder what the twist is gonna be"....by the time the last 10 mins of the game rolled around, I had totally forgot about it.....until that last scene....that's when I knew something was amiss....I just didn't expect them to throw the twist at the end....apparently nobody did....

(if somebody is going to bring up how the other two endings don't include the "breathe scene", I will only say I have my reasons for believing he may in fact be alive in all endings but that the scene is an Easter egg that has requirements that need to be fulfilled in order to see it....just because its an Easter egg of sorts, doesn't mean that it isn't Canon....I use Halo 3 ending scene as an example, but since this is off topic, you can pm me if you care to hear how I come to this conclusion, as I've discussed it in length on other threads)

Now aside from my above statements, the main reason a lot of people view the Final Hours app as damning evidence towards the IDT....I see it as almost the exact opposite.....you don't create "Lots of Speculation" at the end of a trilogy...you do that in the first or second installments..

"Lots of Speculation" could mean they wanted to fool everybody....they wanted people to immerse themselves and dig for answers....they've even stated that they will "discuss the endings when more people have had the chance to beat it"....well why do that? To fool more people....to get more people "Speculating".....all the way up to the big reveal...

I admit, I have my doubts about the IDT....but those saying that the evidence for one side of the argument outweighs the other, those people are way off base....it can swing either way in my eyes....and nobody will know for sure until Bioware says so...and they haven't yet...

Some people think Bioware screwed it up, they think they wouldn't drag it out this long and endure even more backlash, if they really did have something up their sleeve.....well I wouldn't put it past them...I'm not sure when everybody started looking at Bioware as a cookie cutter developer....I've only ever seen them as unique story tellers that aren't afraid to push the envelop, take risks and try something that has never been done before....

But that's just me....

How many BW games have you played?  Name one with a "twist".  They're not known for secret or M. Knight style endings at all.

Also, no game company is ever, EVER going to release a game with a fake or incomplete ending to the press, let them review it and use those reviews to sell the game.  You could actually get a class action lawsuit against them for crap like that.  It won't happen.  The game is done.  

KotOR, ME1, ME2 all have twists...if you read the entire poat you would see that I clearly stated that even I didn't see it coming at the end of ME3....

And you said no game company would make a game and release the true ending afterwards...well, as I said, I've always seen Bioware as risk takers....but if my point of view isn't enough than I could just throw out a couple of games that have done this.....Wrath of Azura(Azuras Wrath?)....and Fallout 3....

[byne]

Capeo wrote...

shamE12 wrote...

Well, back to fallout..........

Fallout didn't change the end of the game.  It changed nothing plot wise.  The water purifying plant gets fixed no matter what.  All Broken Steel did was let you continue after that point like an Elder Scrolls game.  It changed nothing in-game.

Incorrect. There was lethal radiation in the chamber. Your character died. There was no part of it that wasnt clear about your death.

But suddenly it turns out being knocked unconscious for who knows how long in a chamber full of lethal radiation is the kind of thing sleeping for two weeks can cure.

It ALSO changed the fact that at the end, you could get Fawkes, Charon, or Sergeant RL-3 to activate the purifier for you, since they're immune to radiation.

They refused to do so in the original game.

Please at least know what you're talking about

[nranola]

She hasn't been contacted by the team, hasn't had a recording session, or been given any indication that she will be needed for this new content"

That can't be good...

[Quietness]

Capeo wrote...

shamE12 wrote...

Well, back to fallout..........

Fallout didn't change the end of the game.  It changed nothing plot wise.  The water purifying plant gets fixed no matter what.  All Broken Steel did was let you continue after that point like an Elder Scrolls game.  It changed nothing in-game.

So you did not play fallout 3 without having Broken Steel installed i see. Actually the ending changed, the result was the same kind of. But they did change the ending.

[The Angry One]

Apathy1989 wrote...

And as Hale said - endings are hard.

Work to earn money is hard.
If BioWare don't want to do things that are hard, then I'm not going to give them any more of my hard earned money.

[byne]

Capeo wrote...

A twist makes everything that came before it in the plot wrong or misleading intentionally.

Everyone you meet tells you Revan is dead. Suddenly it turns out nope, you're Revan.

I fail to see how that isnt 'intentionally misleading'

[The Angry One]

Quietness wrote...

Capeo wrote...

shamE12 wrote...

Well, back to fallout..........

Fallout didn't change the end of the game.  It changed nothing plot wise.  The water purifying plant gets fixed no matter what.  All Broken Steel did was let you continue after that point like an Elder Scrolls game.  It changed nothing in-game.

So you did not play fallout 3 without having Broken Steel installed i see. Actually the ending changed, the result was the same kind of. But they did change the ending.

Also, it did change it significantly solely because you lived.
At the time it was made, the protagonist dying was a big deal for Bethesda. Yes, there was the option to have what's her face die instead but the game basically attacked you for taking this option.
So changing this was a big change in the plot and theme of Fallout 3, after Bethesda realised it just didn't work.

[DarkShadow]

Capeo wrote...
Also, no game company is ever, EVER going to release a game with a fake or incomplete ending to the press, let them review it and use those reviews to sell the game.  You could actually get a class action lawsuit against them for crap like that.  It won't happen.  The game is done. 

*cough* Asura's Wrath & true ending DLC *cough*

And once again I heard that it would be "hard/impossible" to write an ending the majority likes with a game like ME3. Yeah, sorry, but that's simply wrong. Just stick to the main themes and storyline and it's fine. God, I've seen like hundreds of ending ideas written by fans, which have been approved by the majority.

Additionally, almost all of them fall into the pattern described in my signature post.

All in all, this article gives possibility to three things:
1. The additional dialog is already done and it was clearly Bioware's idea all along (seriously doubt that by now).
2. Bioware is planning to add something excluding Shepard, which means Bioware f***ed up for good, or...
3. ...this interview is actually very old (2-3 weeks).

[Quietness]

DarkShadow wrote...

Capeo wrote...
Also, no game company is ever, EVER going to release a game with a fake or incomplete ending to the press, let them review it and use those reviews to sell the game.  You could actually get a class action lawsuit against them for crap like that.  It won't happen.  The game is done. 

*cough* Asura's Wrath & true ending DLC *cough*

And once again I heard that it would be "hard/impossible" to write an ending the majority likes with a game like ME3. Yeah, sorry, but that's simply wrong. Just stick to the main themes and storyline and it's fine. God, I've seen like hundreds of ending ideas written by fans, which have been approved by the majority.

Additionally, almost all of them fall into the pattern described in my signature post.

All in all, this article gives possibility to three things:
1. The additional dialog is already done and it was clearly Bioware's idea all along (seriously doubt that by now).
2. Bioware is planning to add something excluding Shepard, which means Bioware f***ed up for good, or...
3. ...this interview is actually very old (2-3 weeks).

You forgot Prince of Persia as well.

[Mcfly616]

Capeo wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

@Capeo

Are you serious? Haha....KotOR(Revan), ME1(Citadel/mass relays aren't Prothean tech, they're Reaper traps) ME2(Collectors are Prothean)....

And if you read my whole post you would see that I stated, I didn't expect them to do the twist at the end....nobody did....they've pulled twists in many games, just not at the end....

These twist may not seem significant now, but back then they were earth shattering.....KotORs twist is one of the best in videogame history imo....

You really need to look up what a twist is because none of the above count.  That's just plotting.  A twist makes everything that came before it in the plot wrong or misleading intentionally.

Bro I don't even need to tell you how wrong you are right now....im sure the majority of the people in this forum will tell you that those are all "plot-twists"....

"Twist makes everything that came before it in the plot....misleading"....well really, you don't say? I agree...considering that in KoTOR, they always talk about the dark lord Revan while the Jedi are training you and youre fighting against the sith, and then 3/4 through the game you find out you've been MISLEAD and you are Revan....

And in ME1 you find out 90% through the game that your mode of travel and your capitol of intergalactic government, is in fact designed to harvest all sentient life....yeah I think everybody was MISLEAD...

Yes I'm aware of what a plot-twist is....they are all too common in my line of work...

Thanks for contributing

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 avril 2012 - 05:48 .

[TreguardD]

The plothole in Fallout 3 was arguably worse. Why would you die? Radiation.

Fawkes, the Supermuntant standing RIGHT OVER THERE is immune to the stuff. Why couldn't you send him in instead?

[Orthodox Infidel]

byne wrote...

Capeo wrote...

A twist makes everything that came before it in the plot wrong or misleading intentionally.

Everyone you meet tells you Revan is dead. Suddenly it turns out nope, you're Revan.

I fail to see how that isnt 'intentionally misleading'

It's intentionally misleading, but once the reveal happened, it made perfect sense. If you go back and play KOTOR again, it's clear that all the Jedi Masters know that you're really Revan, and that their talk about the "Dark Lord returning" is from "a certain point of view."

If the Mass Effect 3 ending is a "twist," then what's the explanation that makes perfect sense for the ending? There isn't one. "Indoctrination Theory" doesn't count because it's a total muddle. Compare that to KOTOR's actual twist: Everyone who played KOTOR knows that the player is Revan, and it's presented so clearly that nobody questions it after finishing the game.

Modifié par Orthodox Infidel, 04 avril 2012 - 05:57 .

[byne]

TreguardD wrote...

The plothole in Fallout 3 was arguably worse. Why would you die? Radiation.

Fawkes, the Supermuntant standing RIGHT OVER THERE is immune to the stuff. Why couldn't you send him in instead?

If you tried, he'd say "I'm sorry, my companion, but no. We all have our own destinies, and yours culminates here. I would not rob you of that."

I think Fawkes, like all other Super Mutants, wants you dead, he's just subtle about it.

[humes spork]

The Angry One wrote...
Also, it did change it significantly solely because you lived.
At the time it was made, the protagonist dying was a big deal for Bethesda. Yes, there was the option to have what's her face die instead but the game basically attacked you for taking this option.
So changing this was a big change in the plot and theme of Fallout 3, after Bethesda realised it just didn't work.

FO3 is to date the first and only game in the FO series, spinoffs included, to have a playable epilogue, by the way. FO2 only had an interactive ending, opposed to a fully-realized playable epilogue in the conventional sense. I "thank" the people that expected post-apocalytpic Elder Scrolls for that.

And, even in BS the game called you a great big puss if you sent Lyons, or the rad-immune companions, in Project Purity nevertheless.