224 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

Sparse wrote...

Because to fix the ending properly they would have to remake half of the game. Which they can't do.

Add some technical jargon explaining that the Crucible has failed to do whatever it was supposed to do. Meet with Hackett and Anderson to discuss what to do now.

While the fleets you have gathered keep the Reapers busy, you send a team of scientists to set up something similar to the base in Arrival on a large asteroid. Start the asteroid moving towards the Charon Relay and send the order for the fleets to retreat through the Relay.

The asteroid makes the Relay explode, which wipes out a majority of the Reaper forces in the galaxy, but you sacrifice humanity's homeworld to achieve victory.

Didnt Casey Hudson or someone say before the game came out that the theme would be 'Victory through sacrifice"?

Well there you go, and all you have to do is change the ending, leaving the rest of the game intact.

You'll even have the threat of the Reapers who werent with the majority in the Sol System at the time, leaving the franchise open for more sequels where you deal with the last Reaper holdouts.

Modifié par byne, 04 avril 2012 - 05:14 .

[sth128]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Right, because 400 year old plays is a perfect analogue to modern video games. If you know anything about Shakespeare, you'd know that he often inserted rampant violence and WTF moments (like when a bear shows up for no reason) just to please the crowd.

Van Gogh (if you're gonna use him as an example, at least get his name right) died in poverty and wasn't even appreciated until much later. EA and Bioware are not out to make fine art. They are out to make MONEY. To say that changing the game would somehow damage their "artistic integrity" is just ridiculous. They CHANGED the combat system just to appease the shooter fans. Except they didn't even have the "artistic integrity" to make that change remotely credible for many parts of the game.

And Harry Potter? Really? Two words: SPACE MAGIC.

[Creston918]

Hubris.

Plain and simple.

[Grasich]

Grand Wazoo wrote...

If Bioware submits to the fans demands and creates a new ending, other developers and gaming media sites can't take them seriously anymore, because in the end, those 75 perfect scores matter more to Bioware and most certainly EA.

Right, because no one takes Bethesda, Valve, J.K. Rowling, or Arthur Conan Doyle seriously... oh wait...

[durasteel]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

pride

Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 16:18

[Creston918]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Would people have told Sir Arthur Conan Doyle that Sherlock Holmes shouldn't have died, and demanded him to change it?

Would people have told Agathie Christie that Hercule Poirot shouldn't die, and demand her to keep him alive?

Would screening audiences have told Ben Stiller that the ending to Dodgeball sucked, and demanded him to change it?


PS : The answer to all three is yes. And in all three cases, it got changed (and far more radically than Bioware is considering). Get off your "SOMETHING CAN NEVER BE CHANGED BECAUSE FANS ARE DISSATISFIED!!1!11" horse.

[The Lightspeaker]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Still eating up that "artistic integrity" and "vocal minority" stuff eh?

I'm sure BioWare loves you too.

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 04 avril 2012 - 05:15 .

[shnellegaming]

EA corporate politics caused this and they can't say anything bad about their bosses.

[Nobrandminda]

I can understand the instinct to defend your work, but there comes a point (and Bioware has long since past it) where you just look out of touch.

If I wanted to, I could go and find a half dozen articles and videos explaining how the ending fails in terms of basic storytelling. I'm not going to because they've made their way to these forums a hundred times over by now, but it's not just that plot points are dropped or things didn't turn out the way we'd hoped. The ending is just objectively bad on a technical level. Maybe some people liked it, but you can find someone to like anything. I'm sure someone liked the Superman 64 game, that doesn't mean it's good.

[Hospitallar]

It all comes down to money and maximizing profits, minimizing losses

[Jeb231]

The ending is a set up for the movie/mass effect 4/DLC.

I'm not asking for much. Either tweak the ending so it makes sense in the context of the lore which was proposed before (cut the last 14 lines) or at least have some balls and defend the reasoning and intention behind the dialogue ending instead of hiding behind the art card. Unless IT, it looks like a typical case of dumb writing.

Modifié par Jeb231, 04 avril 2012 - 05:20 .

[sean10mm]

Since they're all men, it's fair to say that they're just unable to man the f' up and admit they made a mistake.

Changing the ending wouldn't set a precedent because the backlash against their ending is literally unprecedented. They screwed up the ending so badly that it's a special case.

[ambroseaz]

Because EA corporate philosophy is fully entrenched in Bioware's ecosphere. My theory is; if left to the development team the current ending would have been one of several available options, and not a color-coded insult to consumers. I think EA placed unrealistic deadlines and financial restrictions on the development team, and as a result we were sold an unfinished sketch of a story without cohesion or closure. I have no doubt in my mind that Bioware intended to deliver a game equal to or better than ME's 1 and 2, and I believe they knew exactly how to do it. In the end, though, the time and resources necessary for Bioware to complete a polished piece of epic space opera were denied in exchange for fast turn-around and quarterly profit spread-sheets. This is what happens when corporate accountants and board-room executives purchase the souls of creative artists and thinkers.

[savionen]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Actually pretty hilarious because Shakespeare did change a lot of his plays, constantly. A crappy play had no audience. It was either changed or forgoten.

J.K. Rowlings actually originally intended for Harry Potter to die at the end, as well as some other main characters, she changed it due to fan response. Can you imagine the ****storm that would have occured if Harry Potter basically died for no reason at the end?

[Silveralen]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

http://i0.kym-cdn.co...270/606/13a.jpg

If the LoTR Trilogy ended like that, his editor wouldn't have let it go through. ALterations would have been made. Bad writing is bad writing. You fix bad writing, you don't defend it with "artistic integrity". If the writers had properly editing and scruntity ahead of time, we wouldn't ahve gotten this ending.

Books and movies change all the time before release due to editing, soemthing ME3 lacked. Now they cna either leave it as crap, or fix it after the fact.

Modifié par Silveralen, 04 avril 2012 - 05:25 .

[Senario]

They are protective probably because they want to satisfy the Pro-end people while giving the anti-end people a tiny tiny bone. Oh and it requires less effort than creating a whole new ending. To be honest it ties into "Artistic integrity" argument because they can just argue that changing it would change the nature of the "art".

Things aren't looking good if they plan to clarify bad writing with more bad writing.

[byne]

savionen wrote...

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Actually pretty hilarious because Shakespeare did change a lot of his plays, constantly. A crappy play had no audience. It was either changed or forgoten.

J.K. Rowlings actually originally intended for Harry Potter to die at the end, as well as some other main characters, she changed it due to fan response. Can you imagine the ****storm that would have occured if Harry Potter basically died for no reason at the end?

Dobby appears.

Tells Harry he has three options:

He can kill the Death Eaters, enslave Lord Voldemort, or turn everyone into mudbloods.

Also no matter what he chooses broomsticks and floo powder no longer work.

[Mevanna]

JerusPI wrote...

"Look we want to make and ME4 with Earth as a giant melting pot of aliens and humans stuck and recovering from the Reaper War and quite frankly we needed to ensure that happened in all endings by destroying the relays. We originally inteded wildly diverging endings but we were told to make an ME4 and to set up the endings so it was possible sorry if you don't like it guys. "

Damn, but that would be so awesome...
Personally, it's the complete out-of-thin-air-ness of the ending that bothers me, not the desctruction of the relays and with them the galactic community. The relays blowing up seems to be a sort of plausible effect of using a doomsday device, as opposed to some of the other stuff.

My theory as to how the ending came to be would be that maybe they were so focused on making an ending that hit the right emotional tune that they weren't really paying attention to whether it actually made sense or fit the plot.
Seems the only good explanation I can come up with. And yes, I'm sure there *is* a good explanation for this whole ending blunder, and not just "well, they rushed through it".

So... maybe. Maybe the reason they're defending their ending like that is because there was probably a whole lot of work put into it and they can't quite see how it ended up going sideways like this.

[Element Zero]

Pride is the answer. They screwed up royally, and it was supposedly the leads' decision. I don't see them admitting a failure of this magnitude.

Modifié par tallrickruush, 04 avril 2012 - 05:27 .

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Talogrungi wrote...

It'll cost 'em money to fix it.

They like money.

There's really no other reason.

It will cost them more money to not fix it.  Lost DLC sales, lost mechandise sales, lost DA3 sales.

[tjmax]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Extent of the hatred, posts from a troll.

Post something shocking or contraversal to try to make people angry:

[x] A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Post false information due to lack of real knowledge:

[x] Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it
[x] Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?
[x] Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Just with the JK rowlings alone... Every one that lived was ment to die every one that died was ment to live in the last harry book, it was all changed. look it up.

Ok other then that... I think you got the basis covered.

Good job.

Modifié par tjmax, 04 avril 2012 - 05:27 .

[Esoretal]

My biggest question is how the hell they thought this was acceptable in the first place. I mean... how... did they completely lose touch with the last five-plus years? Did they get someone completely unfamiliar with the series to write the endings in a fishbowl? I don't even know.

Modifié par Esoretal, 04 avril 2012 - 05:28 .

[SimonM72]

Talogrungi wrote...

It'll cost 'em money to fix it.

They like money.

There's really no other reason.

Theres probably a healthy dose of ego in there too.  Years of Bioware being proclaimed 'The RPG Gods' went to their heads and they started to believe their own press I believe.  So much so that I reckon there is some merit to the (apparently debunked) rumor that the writing team were not in on the final act and it was just Casey's and Mike's ego going crazy locked-in behind doors and with a sense of self-important secrecy.
I cannot find any other reason for both the stupidity of the ending nor their reluctance to change it so it makes sense.

[Taboo]

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

It'll cost 'em money to fix it.

They like money.

There's really no other reason.

It will cost them more money to not fix it.  Lost DLC sales, lost mechandise sales, lost DA3 sales.

Exactly. Many people are lifelong fans. If they don't fix it they'll be gone forever.

[The Angry One]

Ego. Don't you see this was Mac Walters' bid at becoming an artiste?
How dare we take that away from him just because we want an ending to Mass Effect rather than an ending to a French arthouse movie that 10 people go to see?

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 avril 2012 - 05:31 .