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[garf]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Bioware is none of the above. your point is moot.

[SovereignWillReturn]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?
The story was WELL WRITTEN, made sense, and it fit the bill of a tragedy because of the lead-in and plot allusions already in place.

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?
He made it work

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?
She made that death beautiful, well-received, and heart-breaking. Bioware did this with the AMAZING death scenes for Mordin, Thane, and Miranda. Do you see people asking to change those deaths?

[PistolPete7556]

Whatever makes them the most money without deviating from their original plan. I fully believe that the ending was done in a way that fans would want more to complete the story and that the story will continue, in either DLC or another game. Not exactly customer service, but it makes business sense. Just having this be the end makes no sense financially.

[iRAWRasaurusREX]

Artistic integrity is really a poor excuses. No matter what, this is a product and we are paying for it. They are in this to make money..plus copying the ending and saying our choices matter..

[cyric085]

bioware today are incompetent. i really hope they go out of business soon, i will laugh my ass off.

[Quietness]

DeeLite808 wrote...
Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

JK Rowling is hands down the worst example to give if you are attempting to use the artistic example. If you would please go do research before making these comments i would love to address all the famous artists who have allowed for fan perception to change their art.

[Corrik Ronis]

Because somewhere* along the line it became a cardinal sin to admit you made a mistake or were wrong about something.

Modifié par Corrik Ronis, 04 avril 2012 - 05:40 .

[Pottumuusi]

Becaaaauuuuse.

[GongStar]

It's either about money or they have further plans to expand, that are dependant on the ending being as is.

[Silpheed58]

JerusPI wrote...

At Pax coming up we may find out how they'll clarify or extend the endings but Bioware seems to be defending it's endings the way they are.  But lets take a look at ME2 when compared to ME1. Alot of us loved Tali's Voice and personality and backstory how people treated her like the underdog.. {because lets face it at the time physically the only thing we knew about her was she was nightcrawler in a skintight diving suit}

And Garrus... Well i didn't really find Garrus too interesting in ME1 apparently some people did. {Don't get me wrong in ME2 he became a good friend but in ME1 he seemed to be all about "C-Sec wont let me play by my own rules"} And then Bioware made them Love interests in ME2. People didn't like the Mako so they replaced it with a hammerhead when people didn't like that in ME3 they got rid off both and had Cortez and Vega making jokes about both vehicles.

People didnt' like driving all over a planet to find an mineral deposit or lost matriarch writings. So in ME2 you just scanned planets and then got minerals or a mission. People liked that goofball Conrad Verner and so he's in all ME games and even gets a Noble death/ Embarassment and love interest. Biowares been pretty good about giving fans what they want so far.

And Before we start yelling about DA2. {which I personally hate} I have begun treating DA2 like Silent Hill 4. Not many people know {or they do and I just like to pretend it's a secret} Silent Hill 4 originally was a completely brand new game with no ties to Silent Hill so they could test out new things like the first person exploring of the room and such. But the market was too fierce to release an New I.P.so they made some modifications and released it as a new Silent Hill game.

So I just now pretend that DA2 was supposed to be an original I.P but they were afraid to risk it so made it Dragon Age at the last minute. Back to Mass Effect though. Why do they seem so protective of the ending? Unless they say they're going to change the ending completely, I hope any announcement about Clarifying/Extending the ending is accompanied with "Look we want to make and ME4 with Earth as a giant melting pot of aliens and humans stuck and recovering from the Reaper War and quite frankly we needed to ensure that happened in all endings by destroying the relays. We originally inteded wildly diverging endings but we were told to make an ME4 and to set up the endings so it was possible sorry if you don't like it guys. "

Probably because what we got was

(a. Not the real end, and is EA looking to saw how much we are will to pay into this game for the rest of the content.

or

(b.  The end is really what they meant to give us and they are happy with it, but what they delivered to us poorly conveyed the vision they had.  It's like writing the world's greatest speech and having it read by someone who has severe speech impediments.

[Skull Bearer]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

LOL, you know JKR was planning to kill Harry off, but changed her mind after she imagined the fan reaction?

[Darth Asriel]

To the person bringing up Shakespeare and Rowling: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle brought Sherlock Holmes back from the dead, because of pressure from his fans. Movie endings get changed all the time because a test audience didn't like it. Movie studios release Director's Cuts and Extended Editions all the time. Stephen King has released revised copies of his novels.


Basically your point is invalid.

[Xandurpein]

I'm going to assume that even if the developers at Bioware realise that their narrative was poor and rushed towards the end, some of them really liked the basic outline of this ending.

[recentio]

Pride. Ego. Hubris.

Is it easier to believe in the inferiority of the audience or the inferiority of one's own work?

[soulprovider]

Grand Wazoo wrote...

If Bioware submits to the fans demands and creates a new ending, other developers and gaming media sites can't take them seriously anymore, because in the end, those 75 perfect scores matter more to Bioware and most certainly EA.

Actually you mean publishers,

Gaming sites are paid for by the games they review - conflict of interest if you will - a lot of the small time game sites that are objective will give bioware credit where credit is due. The large scale publishers will bash the companies image or make it disapear and shut them down. Since EA owns bioware I'm certain that within a few years they will be shut down regardless, activision is doing it all the time and EA has done it quietly.What i'm trying to say is that basically bioware is screwed one way or the other the gaming oligopoly has the industry wrapped around their little finger and the gamers are none the wiser. Bioware itself doesn't exist anymore they are just a tool used by EA, when they created mass effect 1 and dragon age they worked with microsoft game studios but once EA bought them their reputation began to fall by the way side, Dead space, same thing. Infamous, same thing. Point being don't blame bioware they are just slaves to the oligopoly.

[Thornne]

Two reasons, IMO:

1) They would have to own up to the mistake.

2) It would cost a non-trivial amount of money.

[The_ilest]

well if they keep it the way it is. Then they can continue to mass effect 4 or new dlc were you visit the planet of the "light people" who created everything.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Skyblade012 wrote...

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Shakespeare did change his plays due to audience reactions.

And Harry lived through the last book because Rowling got negative feedback from her test audience.

Do your research.

That guy is a troll, you're arguing with a wall

[InsaneAzrael]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Modifié par InsaneAzrael, 04 avril 2012 - 05:59 .

[balance5050]

I.T.

[leapingmonkeys]

Bioware/EA doesn't want to change anything because the resources that would be required to do so have already been earmarked for other projects. To go back and fix ME3 now would mean disrupting multiple other projects and they think that the monetary impact of disrupting the other projects will be more expensive than the impact they will suffer by letting ME3 stay as it is.

At the end of the day, it is, and always has been, business. The whole "art" thing is simply a lame PR attempt to throw up a smoke screen.

[NReed106]

B/c $$>Quality story to EA
And EA owns BW
EA's culture has the dominant influence over BW as they control the who get promotions etc

Therefore BW now loves $$>Quality products

[vancian-hero]

In the end, I think people want an ending that makes sense not an ending that is happy or cheery, remember this was an ELE for the whole galaxy, I think people expected it to be grim, I expected it to be pretty grim as well but i expected it to make sense and to continue the concepts and themes of the previous games. The ending as it stands, simply doesn't make the slightest sense at all. In fact it contradicts and is contradicted by the previous two games and by 95% of the third. It jars with your sense of were the story was going. It makes a mockery of everything you do, from curing the genophage to bringing peace to the Qaurians and the Geth. That last example alone renders the rationale for the crucible entity as completely absurd.

Imagine Lord of the rings - the final scene, Frodo and Sam, have finally made it to Mount Doom and Frodo is about to face his greatest challenge - to cast the ring back into the fire and end the threat of Sauron. Just before he makes his choice the Ghost of Isildur appears saying "Stay your hand young Hobbit - you have proven yourself worthy and must now learn the true secret of the ring". The ghost of Isildur then goes on to explain that the ring is not the distilled essence of the lord of darkness but a conduit to effect great change. Frodo is presented with three choices. One is control - his essence will fuse with the ring and in effect take control from Sauron. Destroy the ring and end the dominion of the dark lord. Synthesis were darkness and light will be brought together and a new middle earth would be created. Frodo makes his choice but as we ponder what the hell that was all about, we read a scene were gandalf astride the great eagle Gwahir is trying to escape a field of burning energy, clutching to his back we see Gimli. The eagle lands on a small island off the shore of Gondor, and we now see that Gimli was holding on to Sam. The scene fades, the story ends.

Now continuing with that example we know it makes no sense for the ring to be a conduit. We have been told what the ring was from the very beginning. We have seen its baleful influence on Gandalf, Galadrial and poor old Boromir. even the effect on Frodo is pretty terrible. In a few lines of dialogue the whole basis of the threat the ring represents in entirely undone. Other aspects don't make sense as well. What about the fellowship, what happened to the characters? What happens to middle earth, to Lothlorien, to Gondor? And the final scene - what was Gandalf trying to escape? how did he come to choose Gimli and how on earth did he manage to get a hold of Sam? wasn't he with Frodo at the end?

I am left with the same imponderables with the end of ME3 - I know what the entity is saying is total nonsense because all three games up to that point, pretty much contradict what its saying. The idea that synthetics can impose order by harvesting an advanced species in the most nasty manner possible to avoid it being destroyed in turn by synthetics that they create is frankly insulting. Not to mention that your actions in all three games render it's arguments as being redundant. But you are forced to make three terrible choices with no knowledge of what is going to happen? I could accept it being the end of shepherd, but what of the galaxy what does it mean for them? What of the Turians, the Krogan, the Rachnii, the Geth and what of the Qaurians who have only just reclaimed their homeworld? No answer from the creepy kid who in 14 lines of dialogue renders everything up to that point as having been a monstrous waste of time and energy.

It's a bad ending to what was an excellent series.

[Njald]

EA business model is getting realeases out every year with a big sticker stating "FIFA12" on it. The only riskfactor EA sees in their yearly reports is missing the deadlines and the yearly sports cycle. (don't believe me? read their finacial reports)
So making an unscheduled change for a released title is anathema to EA. Bioware maybe Wants to do stuff but their bosses are already planning ME4 GalaticWarfare 2013 2014 and 2015.
This is EA's business model and Bioware will change to fit it.
So no quality anymore. Just fastfood in forms of same game every year.