224 réponses à ce sujet

[Kitedtk]

sniper1250 wrote...

Maybe they've already started production on ME4 and they need the ending to stay the same or the intro to the new game that they've already completed wont make sense.

If that's the case... I'm never again buying bioware products.

[Captain Arty]

Gigamantis wrote...
I haven't really heard any facts behind the plotholes being claimed, just speculation about synthetics and the catalyst that isn't really supportable. 

Giga...



Start with that one.

[daecath]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

You're making a bad assumption. Look at it this way:

If the original draft of Romeo and Juliet had the two of them being abducted by space aliens and taken to a far away planet, HECK YEAH I would have said "Bill, bud, look, that ending sucks. How about make something that keeps with the story."

If Van Gough had made a self portrait of himself, and then put it on a stick figure body, I would absolutely have told him "Vinnie, dude, you're better than that, you've got way more talent than that, you should really try harder."

And if J. K. Rowlings had decided that the end of Harry Potter should be that Dumbledoor comes back and merges Harry and Voldemort into a single being, I would absolutely tell her "J.K., does that stand for just kidding, because that ending must be a joke."

[DungeonHoek]

sniper1250 wrote...

Maybe they've already started production on ME4 and they need the ending to stay the same or the intro to the new game that they've already completed wont make sense.

If they have, good luck selling it then. This mess is not unlike the mess with Saints Row the 3rd, and Volition pretty much told its fans to go dance in a blender and wait for Saints Row 4 which would be out in about a year.

Funny how I find myself incredibly disinclined to buy that game, and I used to love Saints Row.

The fools can argue all they want about how those who want the ending altered are wrong, but the fact remains that people are incredibly unhappy. And if they are not made happy. Future sales will take a hit.

[Cant Planet]

JerusPI wrote...

And Before we start yelling about DA2. {which I personally hate} I have begun treating DA2 like Silent Hill 4. Not many people know {or they do and I just like to pretend it's a secret} Silent Hill 4 originally was a completely brand new game with no ties to Silent Hill so they could test out new things like the first person exploring of the room and such. But the market was too fierce to release an New I.P.so they made some modifications and released it as a new Silent Hill game.

So I just now pretend that DA2 was supposed to be an original I.P but they were afraid to risk it so made it Dragon Age at the last minute.

For what it's worth, that seems to me like a really good way to think about it, and I liked DA2.

[chazfu]

sniper1250 wrote...

Maybe they've already started production on ME4 and they need the ending to stay the same or the intro to the new game that they've already completed wont make sense.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Production on the 4th title in the ME universe probably began 9-12 months ago. The 16 different endings BW envisioned when they began ME had to be pared down to 3 homogeneous endings to fit the jump off point for ME 4. So any change/addition to the ME 3 ending will require huge rewrites or a total scrapping of the ME 4 work already done.

So it would be a waste of money for EA to make changes to ME 3 that would negate the investment put forth into 4. And if the harm 3 has done to the ME universe can't be "fixed" with clarification, then 4 will simply be scrappped before it has a chance to lose more money.

[Daedalus1773]

Skyblade012 wrote...

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Shakespeare did change his plays due to audience reactions.

And Harry lived through the last book because Rowling got negative feedback from her test audience.

Do your research.

Winning!

[Gigamantis]

Start with that one.

The reapers wipe the slate clean so organic life can start over when synthetic life starts getting too prevalent for the catalysts tastes. The fact that the reapers are synthetic is meaningless.

[Captain Arty]

Gigamantis wrote...

Start with that one.

The reapers wipe the slate clean so organic life can start over when synthetic life starts getting too prevalent for the catalysts tastes. The fact that the reapers are synthetic is meaningless.

And you honestly don't see the logical and moral failure of a supposed higher-being suggesting that destroying all advanced life in the galaxy is the onyl way to protect the advancement of life in the galaxy...?

I seriously think you are messing with us.

EDIT: The player has alreay proven the catalyst wrong by finding peace with the geth and quarians.

Modifié par Captain Arty, 04 avril 2012 - 09:12 .

[DeeLite808]

Captain Arty wrote...


EDIT: The player has alreay proven the catalyst wrong by finding peace with the geth and quarians.

that's if you chose that option.

[Gigamantis]

Captain Arty wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Start with that one.

The reapers wipe the slate clean so organic life can start over when synthetic life starts getting too prevalent for the catalysts tastes. The fact that the reapers are synthetic is meaningless.

And you honestly don't see the logical and moral failure of a supposed higher-being suggesting that destroying all advanced life in the galaxy is the onyl way to protect the advancement of life in the galaxy...?

I seriously think you are messing with us.

EDIT: The player has alreay proven the catalyst wrong by finding peace with the geth and quarians.

First, it's not a logical failing if the synthetic uprising is inevitable, and the catalyst is in a better position to know then you are.  The catalyst has seen this cycle play out many times.  It's obviously not very moral of the catalyst but that's kinda why Shepard is fighting the reapers. 

Also, the player has proven that there can be situational peace between the geth and quarians, but how is that guaranteed to last?  That doesn't dissprove anything.

Modifié par Gigamantis, 04 avril 2012 - 09:18 .

[Kitedtk]

DeeLite808 wrote...

Captain Arty wrote...


EDIT: The player has alreay proven the catalyst wrong by finding peace with the geth and quarians.

that's if you chose that option.

Even if you didn't... Second example... EDI is willing to die to protect Joker...

[Kitedtk]

People. Stop feeding the troll. Lets just talk and stop feeding it.

[gmboy902]

If I had to answer, corporate pride. The idea that they, college-educated and experienced professionals, couldn't completely and 100% screw something up.

[Zulmoka531]

If you look at the statement EA made in response to being nominated as worst company in America, I'd say it's because of some ill visioned corporate pride/arrogance.

[Gigamantis]

Kitedtk wrote...

People. Stop feeding the troll. Lets just talk and stop feeding it.

This is why I'm convinced there aren't any real plot-holes.  Every time the retakers get cornered this is literally all they have in the discussion.  You can't defend your stance so you call me a troll and hope people won't hear me making sense.  You should take it a step furthor and report me for trolling.  If I get banned you won't have to hear me defend the ending any more.

Modifié par Gigamantis, 04 avril 2012 - 09:22 .

[gmboy902]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

If you look at the statement EA made in response to being nominated as worst company in America, I'd say it's because of some ill visioned corporate pride/arrogance.

True dat. I mean, part of the "being the worst company in America" title is being big enough to sell enough people crappy products and/or not give customer support to a ton of fans.

[savionen]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

People. Stop feeding the troll. Lets just talk and stop feeding it.

This is why I'm convinced there aren't any real plot-holes.  Every time the retakers get cornered this is literally all they have in the discussion.  You can't defend your stance so you call me a troll and hope people won't hear me making sense.  You should take it a step furthor and report me for trolling.  If I get banned you won't have to hear me defend the ending any more.

And your response to half the statements are "that doesn't matter."

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

People. Stop feeding the troll. Lets just talk and stop feeding it.

This is why I'm convinced there aren't any real plot-holes.  Every time the retakers get cornered this is literally all they have in the discussion.  You can't defend your stance so you call me a troll and hope people won't hear me making sense.  You should take it a step furthor and report me for trolling.  If I get banned you won't have to hear me defend the ending any more.

We all know you're a troll. Anyway as for the plotholes... Earlier i pointed out a few... Yet on them you were strangely silent... I guess you couldn't see them.

[daecath]

Gigamantis wrote...

Captain Arty wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Start with that one.

The reapers wipe the slate clean so organic life can start over when synthetic life starts getting too prevalent for the catalysts tastes. The fact that the reapers are synthetic is meaningless.

And you honestly don't see the logical and moral failure of a supposed higher-being suggesting that destroying all advanced life in the galaxy is the onyl way to protect the advancement of life in the galaxy...?

I seriously think you are messing with us.

EDIT: The player has alreay proven the catalyst wrong by finding peace with the geth and quarians.

First, it's not a logical failing if the synthetic uprising is inevitable, and the catalyst is in a better position to know then you are.  The catalyst has seen this cycle play out many times.  It's obviously not very moral of the catalyst but that's kinda why Shepard is fighting the reapers. 

Also, the player has proven that there can be situational peace between the geth and quarians, but how is that guaranteed to last?  That doesn't dissprove anything.

It is a logical failing. Let's assume he's correct: Orgainics build synthetics, synthetics destroy organics. Ok, we've already proven him wrong, but we'll go with it. In at least the last two cycles, we know that the synthetics were built before the Reapers invaded. Reapers wipe out (sorry, "harvest") all organic life, and then? You're left with a bunch of primitive races, and a bunch of synthetics (since neither the Catalyst nor the Reapers ever mentioned doing anything with the synthetics). Good job! You've just removed anyone who could possibly have opposed the synthetics and left a bunch of primitive organics to them. [Slow clap].

Ok, so let's assume that they destroy the synthetics before they leave. Here's a thought, if they can destroy the synthetics, why not destroy them in the first place, and tell the organics "See, bad things happen when you don't take care of your toys. Don't make us have to clean up after you again," and then go away?

Catalyst makes 0 sense. Absolutely none.

[DadeLeviathan]

 The ending, as it is, COULD be salvaged. But it will take some serious writing magic to do that. And such magic will require more than just simple explanation in an epilogue, unless it's the greatest epilogue in history. 

The ending is bad writing. Nothing will change it from being bad writing, but it can be made to make sense within the world if serious readjustment is done. Honestly, though, as a writer I would just scrap the entire idea of the ending or go with the indoctrination theory. It would require far less plot miracles and pulling random retcons out of my behind.
 
In the interest of finances, however, the obvious more 'fiscally responsible' thing would be a text-only epilogue with drawn backgrounds similar to what Dragon Age: origins did. But if they go this route, they will need some seriously amazing writing to make it work. Otherwise it will just be rubbing salt in the wound. 

Modifié par DadeLeviathan, 04 avril 2012 - 09:32 .

[Rosinante]

Shakespeare did change his plays due to audience reactions.

And Harry lived through the last book because Rowling got negative feedback from her test audience.

Do your research.

LOL. Second-handers...

[spartan5127]

Only two people wrote it. Since those two people are the head honchos in the studio, it is their hubris that will prevent a change. I'm fairly confident that if you asked the entire writing team "should the endings be changed" with no fear of consequences of whatever opinion they hold, I would think they would say that the ending is severely lacking due to lack of peer review and should be remedied.

[turian_rage]

True, and I suppose a giant Deus Ex Machina is the only way to defeat the reapers. But I accepted that, they worked the Crucible into the plot fairly well. What I didn't accept is the Star Child's so called "explanation" of things. I can maybe accept the endings if they amend to them some more, but just keep the reapers as being this huge, menacing, mysterious force and don't turn them into children's toys. Please. I'd like to pretend that particular incident didn't happen.