224 réponses à ce sujet

[Legendaryred]

The hardest thing some people learn and others never learn is to admit when you made a mistake.

[digby69]

to save money, and admit they got it totally wrong

[The Charnel Expanse]

turian_rage wrote...

True, and I suppose a giant Deus Ex Machina is the only way to defeat the reapers. But I accepted that, they worked the Crucible into the plot fairly well. What I didn't accept is the Star Child's so called "explanation" of things. I can maybe accept the endings if they amend to them some more, but just keep the reapers as being this huge, menacing, mysterious force and don't turn them into children's toys. Please. I'd like to pretend that particular incident didn't happen.

People who call the Crucible a deus ex machina misunderstand what a deus ex machina is.

[Keltikone]

2 reasons, cash and lack of respect for customers, Evil Arts style.

[Icinix]

No company likes to admit when they're wrong.

[ericjdev]

Pride and Greed.

[The Charnel Expanse]

Legendaryred wrote...

The hardest thing some people learn and others never learn is to admit when you made a mistake.

Ironic when the game in question features multiple scenes of purportedly infallible characters admitting they were fallible after all..

[Keltikone]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

turian_rage wrote...

True, and I suppose a giant Deus Ex Machina is the only way to defeat the reapers. But I accepted that, they worked the Crucible into the plot fairly well. What I didn't accept is the Star Child's so called "explanation" of things. I can maybe accept the endings if they amend to them some more, but just keep the reapers as being this huge, menacing, mysterious force and don't turn them into children's toys. Please. I'd like to pretend that particular incident didn't happen.

People who call the Crucible a deus ex machina misunderstand what a deus ex machina is.

Yes, but even so introducing a major protagonist in the last 5 mins of any work of fiction is generally considered, well, stupid.

[Legendaryred]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

The hardest thing some people learn and others never learn is to admit when you made a mistake.

Ironic when the game in question features multiple scenes of purportedly infallible characters admitting they were fallible after all..

Like Mordin, and i killed him...

[MEGoWH777]

Heh heh... Bent, oh i'm so childish.

[chazfu]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

turian_rage wrote...

True, and I suppose a giant Deus Ex Machina is the only way to defeat the reapers. But I accepted that, they worked the Crucible into the plot fairly well. What I didn't accept is the Star Child's so called "explanation" of things. I can maybe accept the endings if they amend to them some more, but just keep the reapers as being this huge, menacing, mysterious force and don't turn them into children's toys. Please. I'd like to pretend that particular incident didn't happen.

People who call the Crucible a deus ex machina misunderstand what a deus ex machina is.

Deus ex machina comes from a tradition in Greek tragedy where writers who had painted themselves into a corner used it to extract their hero from an impossible situation. It usually took the form of a chair lowered from above that literally lifted the hero out of said situation.

[Xrissie]

Probably because people are demanding a change, not politely asking.

[DungeonHoek]

DadeLeviathan wrote...

 The ending, as it is, COULD be salvaged. But it will take some serious writing magic to do that. And such magic will require more than just simple explanation in an epilogue, unless it's the greatest epilogue in history. 

The ending is bad writing. Nothing will change it from being bad writing, but it can be made to make sense within the world if serious readjustment is done. Honestly, though, as a writer I would just scrap the entire idea of the ending or go with the indoctrination theory. It would require far less plot miracles and pulling random retcons out of my behind.
 
In the interest of finances, however, the obvious more 'fiscally responsible' thing would be a text-only epilogue with drawn backgrounds similar to what Dragon Age: origins did. But if they go this route, they will need some seriously amazing writing to make it work. Otherwise it will just be rubbing salt in the wound. 

You and I would do similar things. Except, I would make the current ending only one POSSIBLE ending to keep those who enjoy it happy. After all, why rob them of it?. It's not like there are those who sit there and declare that nothing should be-oh wait. That's right, the misused assertion of artistic integrity, how could I forget?. I must be getting old.

But really, the plot doesn't need miracles. It just needs some revisions and endings thrown in at key points and more gameplay to bring it to a satisfying closure and end this mess. They have the resources of it right in the game with the EMS score, and the idea's were there before.

Go into the final battle with too low an EMS, your squadmates die. Well, what if it's too low, past a certain point?. Perhaps the game ends there and we get an ending where Shepard gets taken by the Reapers, fully idoctrinated, and turned into the Shepard version of Saren, leading the Reapers in the battle against the rest of the universe. With his knowledge of other races being used against them.

Or a "heroic path" inserted during the TIM confrontation, if the EMS is high enough, Shepard has the option to kill himself. And the player takes over as Anderson, deals with the Illusive Man and then the Catalyst. And if he chooses the Destruction option. Everything would fade to black, and Shepard would wake up.

The idea of this would be that when Shepard got blasted by Harbringer he would have been knocked out, and Harbringer would have been trying to indoctrinate him while he was out cold and had no one to snap him out of this. Anderson was his mentor, someone he looks up to. He would represent his strength, his ideals, etc. And by committing suicide. He is killing the part of himself that is being corrupted by influences like the Reapers and TIM.

This of course, would lead to more gameplay. Perhaps a sequence with Shepard talking to his LI about his dream and getting some clarification on that. And then on to a true final battle.

Of course, there is always an outright Reaper's win ending. Which some people want. Not hard to imagine.

But, yes, there is so much room for more from a writing stand point. And it could turn this game into the gold it was meant to be.

But for what I'm gathering about ME4, the premise is about rebuilding galactic civilization? or close to it?. ME3 didn't need to be sacrificed in such a manor to accomplish that.

[Ender99]

One word: Pride

Followed closely by: Ego

If they admit they screwed up, they'd have to swallow their pride. Do you know how many corporate individuals like to do that? Zero.

Hold the line

[TheMerchantMan]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Majority. By any statistical method.

Even supposing it wasn't a clear-cut 50%+ majority, it still represents a techinical majority, in that among all the opinions one can hold of the game's end, the largest camp is disatisfaction.  

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

No. Because the ending to Romeo and Juliet made sense. Further, that is the show he sold me. If I went to the Theatre to see Hamlet and they preformed Waiting for Gadot instead, I would be absolutely in my rights to ask them to perform the show I paid to attend.

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

No, because it wasn't my portrait.

But if Van Gogh drew a portrait of me with my ear cut off, I would demand he change it to reflect what he said he would do.

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

Fans told her not to kill Harry Potter. The result? She changed the story so that Harry did not die. As was the case of Sherlock Holmes and many others.

A weak argument even if you weren't wrong.

[JerusPI]

if you go by the most literal definition of Deus Ex Machina "God in the Machine" considering the Catalyst controls the Reapers he is similar to a "God" in a "Machine" [the citadel]. Now if you want to argue the term Deus Ex Machina as in 11th hour superpower or Arsepull then thats a diffrent debate. Also uh... whose making these new banners? to my knowlledge Allers boobs deserve a better ending is fairly new and I have a few requests myself

[Skvindt]

I suspect they already have plans for future games and DLC that depend heavily on the endings they implemented for Mass Effect 3.

In the case of new games, they might even be working on them already. As a result, scrapping the current endings might impact their plans for the future. They would have to go back to the drawing board, costing precious time and money.

[Arik7]

- Ego of course. Perhaps Casey Hudson's and/or Mac Walters's?

[darkreed]

Personally, I think BW want to stick to this ending is very simple.

Possible future media. Like Games, Books, Comics. Anyway that the end is played out the Relay network is out.

What ever follow has that as a base. Its then down to just picking which end option is a good fit for the new media.

For example, a series of books or comics that could follow one of the races on their travel back to their home cluster.

[Novate]

DeeLite808 wrote...

extent of the hatred. A vocal minority are "angry" they didn't get the ending they thought they were gonna get.

Would you tell Shakespeare that Romeo and Juliet shouldn't have died and demand him to change it?

Would you tell Van Gough that his self portrait should include his missing ear and demand him to change it?

Would you tell J.K. Rowlings that one of the Weasley twins shouldn't have died and demand her to change it?

If i was given the control of Romeo and Juliet from the very beginning, then yes i would demand Shakespeare that My Romeo and Juliet did not deserve to die, because My Romeo and Juliet chooses to not run away.

If I was given the choices that I was given in Mass Effect, then yes I would tell Van Gough that Mine Van Gough never cut off his ear, therefore the portrait would have his both ears.

If I was envolved in controling what Harry Potters does then Yes I probably have more people dead than just one of the Weasley Twins, and because thats my Path of the story, then I would have J.K. Rowlings change it.

Your argument doesn't fit the Mass Effect universe, because we were given control of who dies, what galactic civilization survives. Therefore we get to see the Ending that we have build and created. Its Bioware's Universe, but its our own stories. Because the Shepard that we are playing is the Shepard that we created.

[AtlasMickey]

Because the endings are awesome and, frankly, in the grandest terms, it couldn't have ended any other way. If they did not address the technological singularity, they would have been ignoring the long term implications of the events in the story and it would not be an epic. It would just be some other sci-fi game. But it is epic and any mission to get a new ending will fail.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 04 avril 2012 - 10:58 .

[StarcloudSWG]

Ego. Unwillingness to admit how bad an error Casey Hudson committed. Unwillingness to spend money to replace/fix the ending now.

Basically, they're trading not paying money now, to create a new ending that they'd have to distribute for free, in exchange for losing money in the future from all the fans that were burned.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 04 avril 2012 - 11:05 .

[Gormane01]

at this stage the only reasons I can think they aren't doing anything as yes is either

1) They have something planned and don't want to spoil it (we will know this weekend i hope)

2) They just can't come up with a good response yet, but they are working on one.

I expect they will come up with something, but the company as a whole has built up such loyal and devoted fans. I don't think they will ignore the endings, I just think they are getting a response ready, don't know what but i'm willing to be patient for a while.

[FS3D]

AtlasMickey wrote...

Because the endings are awesome and, frankly, in the grandest terms, it couldn't have ended any other way. If they did not address the technological singularity, they would have been ignoring the long term implications of the events in the story and it would not be an epic. It would just be some other sci-fi game. But it is epic and any mission to get a new ending will fail.

Ah... "Technological singularity". We have dismissed that claim. The Asari passed the technological singularity a very long time ago, as did the Quarians, and the Salarians too. The only difference is that the Asari and Salarians chose not to develop AI technology, and the Geth only fought against the Quarians to defend themselves, and went no further.

Denial... It's not just a river in Egypt.