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RetakeME3's Next Charity and PAX Plans


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#126
taelus.calimshan

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AJRimmsey wrote...

Capone666 wrote...

d4rkspike wrote...

As much as I disliked ME3s ending, I think I dislike what this "Retake ME3" movement has become even more.


What has it become?


its become what the retakers hate the mention of...entitlement.

"Entitlement
Definition:


Entitlement
- Entitlement or a 'Sense of Entitlement' is an unrealistic, unmerited
or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and
favorable treatment at the hands of others."

boiled down the retakers are simply crying out "I want blah blah"

and retakers get awfully angry when anybody points out that thier "demands" are unreasonable when it comes to a video game ending.




You've got me confused here AJ.  Why are the demands unreasonable?  They certainly have precedent in any number of forms of media, including video games.  What about this situation in particular strikes you as unreasonable?

Modifié par taelus.calimshan, 04 avril 2012 - 10:27 .


#127
TRISTAN WERBE

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Ah yes "friends" after Retake movement we have dismissed this claim

#128
garf

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Foxhound2121 wrote...

I really wish BSN would incorporate volunteer mods like many other websites do.

The community improves ten fold, and you don't have the same people hijacking the threads just like the same 3 people always hijack one of these threads and try to derail. It is always the same... people.


Just look for the "shepherd deserves better fans" I've found a very useful tag. I pretty much know what to expect from such posters.

#129
kaztas

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The very nature of a protest is to be heard. Charities and creative means of voicing dissent are one way of getting protests heard. There are more aggressive ways like marching and picketing...and if the Retaker's had done just that instead, they would have gotten hammered and told to get a life or use their money and give it to a needy cause instead.... o.O

Protests are made because of disagreements and they naturally draw lines in the sand. Most don't care what the Retakers do, they don't care about how they do it. By simply "Doing" it these people dislike them and will bash them however they can.

March (get a life)
Charity (scammers and con-men)
Speak out and write letters (pathetic whiners)

It's charity, why is that bad?

#130
TRISTAN WERBE

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Mass Effect 3 ending is considered a great ending to those who like the most unexpected turn of events

#131
garf

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TRISTAN WERBE wrote...

Ah yes "friends" after Retake movement we have dismissed this claim


He's offering the olive branch weather take it or own the eminty is your choice.

#132
TRISTAN WERBE

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garf wrote...

TRISTAN WERBE wrote...

Ah yes "friends" after Retake movement we have dismissed this claim


He's offering the olive branch weather take it or own the eminty is your choice.

Uh I don't understand any of thaT English please

#133
AJRimmsey

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taelus.calimshan wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

Capone666 wrote...

d4rkspike wrote...

As much as I disliked ME3s ending, I think I dislike what this "Retake ME3" movement has become even more.


What has it become?


its become what the retakers hate the mention of...entitlement.

"Entitlement
Definition:


Entitlement
- Entitlement or a 'Sense of Entitlement' is an unrealistic, unmerited
or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and
favorable treatment at the hands of others."

boiled down the retakers are simply crying out "I want blah blah"

and retakers get awfully angry when anybody points out that thier "demands" are unreasonable when it comes to a video game ending.




You've got me confused here AJ.  Why are the demands unreasonable?  They certainly have precedent in any number of forms of media, including video games.  What about this situation in particular strikes you as unreasonable?


well,its a video game,created by bioware,to biowares standards.
what the content,theme or ending is,is simply what they produced.

if a person doesnt like it,they shouldnt buy it.

over the years there have been many things gamers didnt like about games,from buggy releases to snipped content sold as dlc,including the lying before release to bump sales.

every developer is doing these things and has been for years.
everybody knows they wont stop until we stop buying the games.

as for the idea of a charity drive,i am all for it,for the simple reason that whoever is getting the money is going to profit from it.
wether they call it expenses or a salary for doing the work,they will profit from it.
and as soon as interest is gone,they will also disappear into the ether with the money.

its the way of things in economys that are on the downturn.


but basically for all this fracas to be based on a games ending,that nobody really has a right to demand a change of,is just lunacy to me.

#134
HenchxNarf

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ZombieGambit wrote...

Ugh, I'm so sick of hearing about this. It's just a videogame. It's my favorite series ever and I never found any of this necessary.

If BioWare changes the ending it'll set a terrible precedent for the gaming industry. Creative developers will want to stick with "safe" happy endings and greedy publishers like EA and Activision will want to release multiple ending DLCs for games. You don't ask a musician to re-record his music and you don't ask a director to re-film his movie, but apparently you'll demand repeatedly that a game developer "fix" their game. Grow up, people.


Yeah, but that's logic and people can't wrap their head around this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. They don't seem to see or care about how this is going to effect gaming going forward. We're going to end up with sandbox games with no story at all, or stories so linear that you'll know what's happening before it happens. And what's even worse, is that the people who are causing it don't care. They just care about what they want, hell with everyone else.

However..

Both sides need to calm down, but they won't. And come PAX, it's only going to get worse.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 04 avril 2012 - 10:39 .


#135
Destr1er

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Unfortunately, EA will not listen to any fan backlash except for not buying their products.

Good luck with any charity stuff, but it should be done to be charitable and not to try to pressure a game developer to change their game for you. That is kinda selfish.

#136
Guest_slyguy200_*

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TRISTAN WERBE wrote...

Ah yes "friends" after Retake movement we have dismissed this claim


True story
:lol:

#137
kaztas

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AJRimmsey wrote...

taelus.calimshan wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

Capone666 wrote...

d4rkspike wrote...

As much as I disliked ME3s ending, I think I dislike what this "Retake ME3" movement has become even more.


What has it become?


its become what the retakers hate the mention of...entitlement.

"Entitlement
Definition:


Entitlement
- Entitlement or a 'Sense of Entitlement' is an unrealistic, unmerited
or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and
favorable treatment at the hands of others."

boiled down the retakers are simply crying out "I want blah blah"

and retakers get awfully angry when anybody points out that thier "demands" are unreasonable when it comes to a video game ending.




You've got me confused here AJ.  Why are the demands unreasonable?  They certainly have precedent in any number of forms of media, including video games.  What about this situation in particular strikes you as unreasonable?


well,its a video game,created by bioware,to biowares standards.
what the content,theme or ending is,is simply what they produced.

if a person doesnt like it,they shouldnt buy it.

over the years there have been many things gamers didnt like about games,from buggy releases to snipped content sold as dlc,including the lying before release to bump sales.

every developer is doing these things and has been for years.
everybody knows they wont stop until we stop buying the games.

as for the idea of a charity drive,i am all for it,for the simple reason that whoever is getting the money is going to profit from it.
wether they call it expenses or a salary for doing the work,they will profit from it.
and as soon as interest is gone,they will also disappear into the ether with the money.

its the way of things in economys that are on the downturn.


but basically for all this fracas to be based on a games ending,that nobody really has a right to demand a change of,is just lunacy to me.


So voicing a problem about an ending to a series that even the head guy said was more like a collaboration with the fans, including using fan feedback to develop the previous game and using actually player feedback in which they watched what choices we made, what dialouge we skipped, what classes we use most:

http://xbox360.ign.c.../1117896p1.html

This is entitlement? An erroneos assumption that our voices mean nothing and that if we "don't like a game don't buy it" even though in order to not like it we'd have to kind of buy it  to play it? (borrowing is another topic)

#138
Icesong

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HenchxNarf wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

Ugh, I'm so sick of hearing about this. It's just a videogame. It's my favorite series ever and I never found any of this necessary.

If BioWare changes the ending it'll set a terrible precedent for the gaming industry. Creative developers will want to stick with "safe" happy endings and greedy publishers like EA and Activision will want to release multiple ending DLCs for games. You don't ask a musician to re-record his music and you don't ask a director to re-film his movie, but apparently you'll demand repeatedly that a game developer "fix" their game. Grow up, people.


Yeah, but that's logic and people can't wrap their head around this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. They don't seem to see or care about how this is going to effect gaming going forward. We're going to end up with sandbox games with no story at all, or stories so linear that you'll know what's happening before it happens. And what's even worse, is that the people who are causing it don't care. They just care about what they want, hell with everyone else.

However..

Both sides need to calm down, however they won't. And come PAX, it's only going to get worse.




So many other more pertinent issues are affecting the quality of gaming that to worry about this just makes you seem agenda driven in saying that. To me anyway. Despite having just implied that it's irrelevant, how does a community asking for more variety in choice lead to linearity?

Modifié par Icesong, 04 avril 2012 - 10:42 .


#139
aries1001

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Please remember that Bioware is anow part of EA, a publicly traded company. Bioware as part of EA can't do anything without informing the stock exchange first, even if they wanted to. They need to inform the stock exchange as to what actions will be taken to adress this 'ending issue' in ME3 before informing the public. This is, as I understand it, to prevent people from making inside tradiing.

My guess is that Bioware, at PAX East 2012, will talk in some pr-approved way, be vague about what will be happening after the ME3 ending anf give hints of future clarification dlc for the ending. Also, on the endings in ME3 themselves, let me remind you that in an adventure game such as Syberia or Monkey Island or Dreamfall: The Longest Journey the story ends the way the developer wants it to end. This is how the genre for these games, the adventure game genre, ends. Concerning the endings in ME3, Bioware seem to have forgotten that they're not making adventure games (though I wish they'd would ;) ), but rpgs or a mixture of rpgs and shooters in the ME3 series. And in rpgs, player agency is very important, and probably more so in the final sequences of the game...

#140
TRISTAN WERBE

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slyguy200 wrote...

TRISTAN WERBE wrote...

Ah yes "friends" after Retake movement we have dismissed this claim


True story
:lol:

Exactly my point :P

#141
Guest_slyguy200_*

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HenchxNarf wrote...

...

Yeah, but that's logic and people can't wrap their head around this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. They don't seem to see or care about how this is going to effect gaming going forward. We're going to end up with sandbox games with no story at all, or stories so linear that you'll know what's happening before it happens. And what's even worse, is that the people who are causing it don't care. They just care about what they want, hell with everyone else.

However..

Both sides need to calm down, but they won't. And come PAX, it's only going to get worse.




where did you hear that end of all video games stuff? link?

Modifié par slyguy200, 04 avril 2012 - 10:44 .


#142
HenchxNarf

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Icesong wrote...

So many other more pertinent issues are affecting the quality of gaming that to worry about this just makes you seem agenda driven in saying that. To me anyway. Despite having just implied that it's irrelevant, how does a community asking for more variety in choice lead to linearity?


Because they're not going to want to run the chance of giving gamers choices and having said gamers hate them and revolt.  The movement is sending out the signal that "If you don't like something about this game, we have the right to demand it be changed!" And that's dangerous territory.

Most of you aren't asking anything, you're demanding them change the endings to their game. In which you have no right to do. Asking, yes. Demanding, no. 

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 04 avril 2012 - 10:47 .


#143
kaztas

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HenchxNarf wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

Ugh, I'm so sick of hearing about this. It's just a videogame. It's my favorite series ever and I never found any of this necessary.

If BioWare changes the ending it'll set a terrible precedent for the gaming industry. Creative developers will want to stick with "safe" happy endings and greedy publishers like EA and Activision will want to release multiple ending DLCs for games. You don't ask a musician to re-record his music and you don't ask a director to re-film his movie, but apparently you'll demand repeatedly that a game developer "fix" their game. Grow up, people.


Yeah, but that's logic and people can't wrap their head around this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. They don't seem to see or care about how this is going to effect gaming going forward. We're going to end up with sandbox games with no story at all, or stories so linear that you'll know what's happening before it happens. And what's even worse, is that the people who are causing it don't care. They just care about what they want, hell with everyone else.

However..

Both sides need to calm down, but they won't. And come PAX, it's only going to get worse.




How in the world do people who wish for a better story that's not rushed and pushed out to market to make money or just meet deadlines instead of having a finished complete Epic, correlate to them wanting "sandbox games with no story"?

#144
BeefoTheBold

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AJRimmsey wrote...

taelus.calimshan wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

Capone666 wrote...

d4rkspike wrote...

As much as I disliked ME3s ending, I think I dislike what this "Retake ME3" movement has become even more.


What has it become?


its become what the retakers hate the mention of...entitlement.

"Entitlement
Definition:


Entitlement
- Entitlement or a 'Sense of Entitlement' is an unrealistic, unmerited
or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and
favorable treatment at the hands of others."

boiled down the retakers are simply crying out "I want blah blah"

and retakers get awfully angry when anybody points out that thier "demands" are unreasonable when it comes to a video game ending.




You've got me confused here AJ.  Why are the demands unreasonable?  They certainly have precedent in any number of forms of media, including video games.  What about this situation in particular strikes you as unreasonable?


well,its a video game,created by bioware,to biowares standards.
what the content,theme or ending is,is simply what they produced.

if a person doesnt like it,they shouldnt buy it.

over the years there have been many things gamers didnt like about games,from buggy releases to snipped content sold as dlc,including the lying before release to bump sales.

every developer is doing these things and has been for years.
everybody knows they wont stop until we stop buying the games.

as for the idea of a charity drive,i am all for it,for the simple reason that whoever is getting the money is going to profit from it.
wether they call it expenses or a salary for doing the work,they will profit from it.
and as soon as interest is gone,they will also disappear into the ether with the money.

its the way of things in economys that are on the downturn.


but basically for all this fracas to be based on a games ending,that nobody really has a right to demand a change of,is just lunacy to me.


Your argument fails because people bought the game based on specific promises of what the game, including the endings, would include.

Failing to meet those promises sparked the protests.

Cause. Effect.

This is not entitlement. It is a response to false advertising.

#145
TRISTAN WERBE

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I just want Halo 4 this thread is useless

#146
AJRimmsey

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kaztas wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

taelus.calimshan wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

Capone666 wrote...

d4rkspike wrote...

As much as I disliked ME3s ending, I think I dislike what this "Retake ME3" movement has become even more.


What has it become?


its become what the retakers hate the mention of...entitlement.

"Entitlement
Definition:


Entitlement
- Entitlement or a 'Sense of Entitlement' is an unrealistic, unmerited
or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and
favorable treatment at the hands of others."

boiled down the retakers are simply crying out "I want blah blah"

and retakers get awfully angry when anybody points out that thier "demands" are unreasonable when it comes to a video game ending.




You've got me confused here AJ.  Why are the demands unreasonable?  They certainly have precedent in any number of forms of media, including video games.  What about this situation in particular strikes you as unreasonable?


well,its a video game,created by bioware,to biowares standards.
what the content,theme or ending is,is simply what they produced.

if a person doesnt like it,they shouldnt buy it.

over the years there have been many things gamers didnt like about games,from buggy releases to snipped content sold as dlc,including the lying before release to bump sales.

every developer is doing these things and has been for years.
everybody knows they wont stop until we stop buying the games.

as for the idea of a charity drive,i am all for it,for the simple reason that whoever is getting the money is going to profit from it.
wether they call it expenses or a salary for doing the work,they will profit from it.
and as soon as interest is gone,they will also disappear into the ether with the money.

its the way of things in economys that are on the downturn.


but basically for all this fracas to be based on a games ending,that nobody really has a right to demand a change of,is just lunacy to me.


So voicing a problem about an ending to a series that even the head guy said was more like a collaboration with the fans, including using fan feedback to develop the previous game and using actually player feedback in which they watched what choices we made, what dialouge we skipped, what classes we use most:

http://xbox360.ign.c.../1117896p1.html

This is entitlement? An erroneos assumption that our voices mean nothing and that if we "don't like a game don't buy it" even though in order to not like it we'd have to kind of buy it  to play it? (borrowing is another topic)


did it ever occur to you that instead of demanding new/more endings,all you really had to do was ask ?
if the retake group had simply called itself...say Coalition for more Mass Effect content,then i suspect you would be playing with more content by now.

but demanding it all cornered bioware so they had to rethink the whole thing,or isnt anyone curious as to why ANY dlc has not appeared yet ?

from day 1 its been demanding,not asking or suggesting,but demanding.

granted bioware followed the age old protocol of letting people believe they had a part in the games creation,but in reality we all again know that was just smoke n mirror talk,as with every other developer.

its not your ideas they want,its filler for thier own lack of imagination.
so many times mods have been plageurised by developers and called "fan content".

to this day theres still no consensus on what retake actually wants done.

#147
Guest_slyguy200_*

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HenchxNarf wrote...

...

Because they're not going to want to run the chance of giving gamers choices and having said gamers hate them and revolt.  The movement is sending out the signal that "If you don't like something about this game, we have the right to demand it be changed!" And that's dangerous territory.

Most of you aren't asking anything, you're demanding them change the endings to their game. In which you have no right to do. Asking, yes. Demanding, no. 

I think that would be a good thing, from what i hear, once again i want more info on this.

#148
streamlock

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Should give out T-shirts at the front door with all the pre-release quotes.

#149
Guest_slyguy200_*

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TRISTAN WERBE wrote...

I just want Halo 4 this thread is useless

You mentioned HALO 4, i am now dying with anticipation.

#150
taelus.calimshan

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AJRimmsey wrote...

<some snippage for the sake of post length>

well,its a video game,created by bioware,to biowares standards.
what the content,theme or ending is,is simply what they produced.

if a person doesnt like it,they shouldnt buy it.

over the years there have been many things gamers didnt like about games,from buggy releases to snipped content sold as dlc,including the lying before release to bump sales.

every developer is doing these things and has been for years.
everybody knows they wont stop until we stop buying the games.

as for the idea of a charity drive,i am all for it,for the simple reason that whoever is getting the money is going to profit from it.
wether they call it expenses or a salary for doing the work,they will profit from it.
and as soon as interest is gone,they will also disappear into the ether with the money.

its the way of things in economys that are on the downturn.


but basically for all this fracas to be based on a games ending,that nobody really has a right to demand a change of,is just lunacy to me.


I think I see where you're coming from, but correct me if I'm off base on this one.  I see a few points being made:

- BioWare produced the game to be what they wanted it to be and so whatever that is, for better or for worse, is what it is.  Changing that is inappropriate.

- Anyone who disagrees with something in the game (content, DLC usage, etc.) should voice that opinion by not purchasing the game, but does not have any claim to demand changes.

I think that's the salient stuff (I omitted the charity stuff for the sake of being specific to a single idea).

I guess I see it differently.  I see what BioWare created as something to be sold.  A product, specifically designed for people to consume.  With most products, things can't be easily changed after they're initially created, so I see the difficulty in demanding changes there, but I also see that many companies will take a severe backlash against a product and make the corrections demanded in the newest version of that product.  Cars, computers, restaurants, and any number of other groups all do this.  So I guess what I'm getting at is that I see a company's response to consumer feedback when that feedback is significantly negative and from a core part of their consumer base as not only optional, but indeed critical to that company's future success.  I see that as making it reasonable for people to demand changes in a product for its next iteration.

Software has an interesting place in this because its next available iteration can actually be generated and disseminated remotely.  If someone finds a huge Windows bug that everyone is angry about, Microsoft can issue a fix for it and push that out to the consumers by "update".  That means that instead of having to wait for a new version of Windows with the correction, the current version can just be changed to be accurate to the promises of the software in terms of functionality.  I see ME3 in the same light.  Something has been pointed out to be contrary to the advertised functionality of the product and BioWare are in a position to correct this with an "update" (or DLC or whatever name it takes on).  I see this demand for change as being just as valid as a demand made to Microsoft if their operating system failed to provide a promised feature.

So, that's why I don't agree with the term "entitlement" in this scenario.  I think this is just consumer advocacy, but I admit that not everyone will share that opinion and I don't take issue with those who disagree.  So, can you help me understand better, given what I've provided, what your perspective is?