5 réponses à ce sujet

[CJohnJones]

Man, how do you guys do it? You are like celebrities who get criticized for every little thing that you do or don't do. I am suprised that any of you visit the fora at all. Basically people whine all day about your great game not being a perfect game. Much respect for your restraint.

Also, I would like a Dev tracker for the forums. I am much more interested in what you guys have to say than in the general din.

[David Gaider]

RunCDFirst wrote...
Actually, it's not their job. They may (and I believe they do) have a community liason or two, but it's certainly not David Gaider's job to come to the forums. Or Sheryl Chee's. Or any of the programmers. A lot of the devs really don't have any responsiblity to answer fans' and forum members' questions or comments. They do, and I'm sure some of their co-workers think they are crazy because of it.

That's correct. It's not our job. Chris Priestly is our community liaison, but even that doesn't make it his job to read through every thread and respond to your concerns (though I'm sure he does his best). Those of us that do come here do it because we enjoy interacting with the community, and because there's definite value to be had in getting some feedback.

That feedback isn't always enjoyable, however. Some people like to write it off as "it's the internet!" but that's a bit of a cop-out. That doesn't mean it's suddenly acceptable to speak to someone in a way that would get you punched in the face if you spoke to them like that in person, and it would take an incredible sense of entitlement to assume that anyone -- whether it's their job or not -- should sit there and listen to their much-vaunted opinion even when they can't be arsed to act in a reasonable fashion. Some people simply can't seperate their behavior from their opinions, and will automatically assume that if somone takes issue with them it must be the latter and not the former.

We do get it, even so. It all comes from a place of passion, but it can be a bit wearying trying to take it all in sometimes no matter how patient you might be. From my experience, it's like this on the forums right after release no matter what game it is. If you have visited the BG2 forums right after release you would have sworn it was the worst game in existence -- funny how people don't remember that after a while.

And that's fine, too. People don't go to the customer service section in a store to tell them how great they think the place is running -- that's just human nature. People come here to vent because they think someone will listen. And they'll vent again and again and again and again... because they're passionate, about RPG's even if not about DA. Understood, but, like I said, sometimes wearying. Sometimes it's just safer to read than to respond, and sometimes it's better just to walk away for a bit.

Anyway, now I've gone and written a long response when I didn't intend to. Ah, well. Return to your regularly scheduled... whatever.

[David Gaider]

fro7k wrote...

If you have visited the BG2 forums right after release you would have sworn it was the worst game in existence

How could anyone think that.

Like I said, people forget. In the first while on the BG2 forums after release, chances are that 90% of the posts you would have seen on the front page would have read like this: "Too many bugs!" "BG2 doesn't follow D&D rules exactly!" "You screwed up on the lore!" "How dare you treat us female gamers unfairly!" "Mages are too powerful!" "classes are unbalanced!" "Game was boring/disappointing - here's why" "Should have been more like BG"

...and so forth and so forth. It's kind of funny how these days you'll get people swearing up and down that there's no nostalgia involved in how they remember BG2 -- because they assume notalgia is a bad thing, I guess? It's human nature. You forget the bad parts and remember the good. Someone had to remind me recently at how bitterly I complained about some of the things in Fallout 2 and how buggy I said it was at the time, even though I remember enjoying the game a great deal.

I think the venting "again and again and again" would be unnecessary if there was a stickied, dedicated thread for complaints and bug-reports.

You might think that, but you would be wrong. Go to the "complaint depot" instead of getting my own dedicated thread with its own title? I think not! And that's if most of those angry posters even *saw* the sticky thread.

 I think where constructive criticism is concerned, it helps to realise that the person doing it wants the game to be better, which is a blameless intention. They don't want to bring the developers down but bring the game up.

With constructive criticism, certainly. Constructive criticism is awesome. The mistake is assuming that any criticism is constructive. Some people are convinced that because they are RIGHT everyone should listen to them, and that if they aren't being listened to clearly what's called for is a more forceful declaration of how very RIGHT they are -- and constructiveness is thrown out the window. Constructiveness requires listening as well as speaking.

It is actually to the credit of the game if it draws that much criticism--games that are truly rubbish do not draw any, they aren't worth the bother. If someone takes the trouble to construct lengthy posts dissecting the games positive and negative points it's because they regard the game as redeemable and worth improving.

That is true, thankfully. I once said of a few of our more divisive characters (Aerie and then Aribeth, I think) that I'd much rather have people angry than apathetic. So I'm thankful that people are delighted enough with the game to complain about it -- but that doesn't mean I want to read through them day in and day out when I have better things I should be doing.

Modifié par David Gaider, 03 décembre 2009 - 07:41 .

[David Gaider]

Ulyn wrote...
In fact it's almost like there's more of a stigma about "fanboy" type behavior than there is about comic-book-guy style condescension towards the game creators, couched in terms of faintly constructive criticism.

I would assume that's mostly the doing of those very same Comic Book Guys you speak of, accusing anyone who disagrees with them of empty-headed devotion to Bioware -- since someone who disagrees with Comic Book Guy's opinion *clearly* can't be thinking rationally, right? And what better way to derail someone's argument except to dismiss it with an ad hominem attack?

Certainly empty praise is no more constructive than empty criticism (if somewhat more pleasant to listen to, unless of course the very thought of anyone liking something you don't makes your Comic Book Guy blood boil), but just as all criticism isn't constructive so to is all praise not empty.

[David Gaider]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
But make no mistake, the game is a gem. There's just very little point in analyzing the things you did right when we can focus on making it better.

You don't think that positive reinforcement can be constructive?

I don't know, man. That's a little sad.

[Ferret A Baudoin]

It does take a thick skin. Most of us have dedicated years to the project - so criticism can be painful. But you need to hear it to learn and grow. Even when you wouldn't change what you did or do in the future (because you can't please everyone) it can be good mental exercise reevaluating those decisions. Generally, though, there are more good folks than bad - and more smiles than speed dial calls to ninja assassins.

Modifié par Ferret A Baudoin, 04 décembre 2009 - 04:33 .