742 réponses à ce sujet

[pikey1969]

The Angry One wrote...

There's no need for insults, you're just feeding the trolls if you go that way.

Trolls are not picky eaters, everything fuels them anyway.

Insults just make fans look bad in general.

[Ketten]

tobito113 wrote...


I just did a check on the story forums. There not a SINGLE positive tread about what people like about this game, or the fact that they apreciate Biowares work on ME3. All i see is how bioware must die or how EA is the anti christ or how evil Casey is for not giving them a better ending. Go to the story board yourself you wont find a single positive tread. This is what the ME fanbase is all about these days.

I don't personally approve of the disrespect of BioWare, but the fact of the matter is, people who find flaws in a game will flock to the flaws and let it be known far more than the people that genuinely enjoyed something. It's been commonplace on boards like these since they've been made. And there have been threads where people have stated (and rightly so), that the majority of the game was great if not fantastic.

It's just the ending. That's it. The last 10 minutes that have riled people up because of the overwhelming plot holes. And funny thing is, that's what people post about, the ending. Not the first ten minutes of the game, or the middle of the game, the ending. 

[Mr.Snithums]

tobito113 wrote...

Ketten wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Ketten wrote...

It's funny when pro-enders assume that because we dislike the ending(s) to a beloved franchise that we automatically disassociate ourselves from BioWare and have proclaimed them the anti-christ of gaming.

We respect and love BioWare for what they have developed and for who they are, otherwise we wouldn't be here complaining about a trilogy that deserves better.

Its really hard for anyone to come to this forums and believe what you just said. 

Maybe you're just looking at the radicals. I do admit, they are more fun to read. ;P

I just did a check on the story forums. There not a SINGLE positive tread about what people like about this game, or the fact that they apreciate Biowares work on ME3. All i see is how bioware must die or how EA is the anti christ or how evil Casey is for not giving them a better ending. Go to the story board yourself you wont find a single positive tread. This is what the ME fanbase is all about these days.

You don't find many topics discussing the finer points of the game but everyone acknowledges them. Everytime an BioWare stumbles into the forums to make a post and ask 'what did people like about the game?' people always respond that they enjoyed the majority of the game. Are there flaws within the Mass Effect 3 narrative besides the ending? Most definatly yes, but theres a reason people come back to the forums to discuss how repulsed by the ending they were because a lot of the other games flaws are minor and can be over looked. I can't be sure if you've seen it but the Tasteful Nerdrage fellow puts it the best as up until the last 5-20 minutes of the Narrative Coherence is still in tact for the most part.

My apologies I got a little off topic, people come back here and proclaim how they are done with BioWare because honestly it is one of the few ways gamers have to protest. By voting with your wallet or theatening to you can be sure you are making an impact however small. Some people found the ending very broken and after investing so much time investing they definatly feel abandoned and they are simply returning the treatment in kind. Others see this as another 'betrayal' from BioWare with the general poor reception of DA2 and TOR, simply adding to their argument of "well you've done x, y, z so I'm done with you." There last group are of course the people are still willing to give BioWare a chance to redeem themselves and even if you feel they are more than entitled to their work or another chance, people have widely varrying opinions.

For the most part you could probably ignore many of the people threatening to stop buying BioWare games, a lot of them will continue their patronage despite the outcome of this fiasco. Others will 'Hold the Line' and stop participating with BioWare, if you see that as beneficial for the company to no longer have those people, fair enough but there will always been descenting voices. However many of the descenting voices here recognize that there is a great game tagged with a nonsensical ending (or however you feel about it), anyone who floats to one extreme or the other is simply very angry or far to interested in praising BioWare. Just like with metacritic scores, the most honest and level headed people you'll find a middle ground with.

TL;DR - Most people here like the game hate the ending. They're angry so they express their anger, doesn't mean theres not something more to their opinion.

[The Angry One]

AtlasMickey wrote...

Pretty sad. I think this is what they mean by "entitelement." 

I was a fan of Star Wars for a time. Then Lucas changed it. I am no longer a fan. Are you saying that I never was a fan in the first place? I didn't demand that he change it back. That's not my call. I don't own Star Wars. As a fan my powers involve bestowing praise or grievance, but not rejection. Once I reject things, I am no longer a fan of them. 

This is something you will have to accept. You are no longer a Mass Effect fan. It's probably going to take some time for you to realize it, but eventually it'll happen and you'll stop trolling fan forums.

I am a Mass Effect fan, defending it against an ending written by someone who is clearly not a fan.
I will not let the best sci-fi universe of recent times be maliciously destroyed like this. Not without a fight.

Mass Effect deserves more. BioWare deserves more.

Modifié par The Angry One, 05 avril 2012 - 12:27 .

[Kanon777]

Sublyminal wrote...

Then obviously your reading skills need work. Every single one of us that dislike the endings, have said that everything up until the final 15 minutes was 10/10.  Bioware spends 20-40 hrs setting you up for this awesome climax and then all you get is an unsatisfying experience.  Every faction has it's radicals, don't judge the rest of us, because of them.

Check the story board on your own and see for yourself how much this community likes the game. 99.99% is either an atack on evil EA/Bioware or another tread about how the ending of ME3 gives you cancer or something. Everytime someone decides to speak what they like about the ending the rest of this forums decides to call them troll and how they dont even understand the story or how their opinion is objectvely wrong... This community is poisonous.

[DungeonHoek]

AtlasMickey wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

Child, if I was trolling. You would be tearing your hair out.

But what you have presented here is so full of garbage, I find it astounding. You don't have faith in your arguement, but confidence in that the core narrative of Mass Effect 3 will stand on its own. You yourself declared it awesome and superb, yet, don't hold faith in what you say. Thus, you are actively stating you don't believe what you are saying. That is what is called being a hypocrite.

The fact of if the ending needs explination or not is subjective from person to person. But you call me a troll because I wish for something better for everyone?,  and call my fan status into question while putting yours above mine?. 

A sad little attack really. Go the distance, text bomb me too. I've seen better antics.

How do you know I'm not bald? Odds are I only wish I looked like Miranda.

I am here to astound! Yes, I did forget that on my list.

I'm an atheist pretty hardcore so I get squeamish using words like "faith." Sorry if that leads to some confusion. I believe in the truth and efficacy of my statements. As for channeling Sovreign, well.... god did it?

Seriously, I call you a troll for not accepting the legitimacy of what we're all here to discuss, and negating the possibility for the discussion.

Child, quit re-enforcing what I say. It doesn't do you any favors. It only makes you look worse.

The definition of faith is not soley rooted in religion, you should know that. And no, you really don't believe in what you are saying. It's even been altered as you've been confronted.

But this is funny, I'm expected to accept  the "legitimacy" of what YOU are saying. But, you yourself refuse to accept anyone elses. I don't play that game.

[Fdmatt]

Opsrbest wrote...

Fdmatt wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

olf1 wrote...

I'm I the only one who still likes and respects Casey?

I don't know if you're the only one but I'm definitely not looking to join his fan club.

What's not like about a lying swindler who hides behind those that abuse and demean his fanbase under the guise of artistic integrity to make up for their lackluster ideas.

How the hell has he demeaned you exactly?

Notice I said those that demean, i.e. the gaming media. Bioware hides behind their outstanding reviews whilst the press blasts fans with legitimate points as entitled whiners.

Modifié par Fdmatt, 05 avril 2012 - 12:31 .

[Quietness]

tobito113 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

Then obviously your reading skills need work. Every single one of us that dislike the endings, have said that everything up until the final 15 minutes was 10/10.  Bioware spends 20-40 hrs setting you up for this awesome climax and then all you get is an unsatisfying experience.  Every faction has it's radicals, don't judge the rest of us, because of them.

Check the story board on your own and see for yourself how much this community likes the game. 99.99% is either an atack on evil EA/Bioware or another tread about how the ending of ME3 gives you cancer or something. Everytime someone decides to speak what they like about the ending the rest of this forums decides to call them troll and how they dont even understand the story or how their opinion is objectvely wrong... This community is poisonous.

39.57821% of all stats are made up on the internet.

[Tonymac]

I think we can afford to be cool here - proper and decent. Lets try less negativity.

After all, for most of us, ME3 was/is an incredible game except for a very small portion of it - namely the ending.

We can say that something might happen that we want. We may even get what we want. If we do great, and if not, well... we each will do as we feel we must.

I am excited that we will be getting an answer - one way or the other! I cannot wait for the news.

If its not what I want to hear, ok, well, thats no different than it was today, or yesterday. It can only go up from here, or it can end. But why be all super grump until we get an answer?

Lets not forget that these are the people we have followed and looked up to - laughed and cried with. I am not abandoning them before I have heard one way or the other. And I will not disparage them and throw them under the bus. If I have to walk away in the end, then I will do so without making a complete donkey of myself. We will agree to disagree if it comes to that, and I will go elsewhere.

[Sublyminal]

tobito113 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

Then obviously your reading skills need work. Every single one of us that dislike the endings, have said that everything up until the final 15 minutes was 10/10.  Bioware spends 20-40 hrs setting you up for this awesome climax and then all you get is an unsatisfying experience.  Every faction has it's radicals, don't judge the rest of us, because of them.

Check the story board on your own and see for yourself how much this community likes the game. 99.99% is either an atack on evil EA/Bioware or another tread about how the ending of ME3 gives you cancer or something. Everytime someone decides to speak what they like about the ending the rest of this forums decides to call them troll and how they dont even understand the story or how their opinion is objectvely wrong... This community is poisonous.

While I agree that the newer radicals that are coming aboard are a bit over the top, those of us that beat the game two days after release all came in here and had civil discussions. Again, we all agreed everything was awesome up until the final 15 minutes.

[pikey1969]

Quietness wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

Then obviously your reading skills need work. Every single one of us that dislike the endings, have said that everything up until the final 15 minutes was 10/10.  Bioware spends 20-40 hrs setting you up for this awesome climax and then all you get is an unsatisfying experience.  Every faction has it's radicals, don't judge the rest of us, because of them.

Check the story board on your own and see for yourself how much this community likes the game. 99.99% is either an atack on evil EA/Bioware or another tread about how the ending of ME3 gives you cancer or something. Everytime someone decides to speak what they like about the ending the rest of this forums decides to call them troll and how they dont even understand the story or how their opinion is objectvely wrong... This community is poisonous.

39.57821% of all stats are made up on the internet.

[Sublyminal]

Opsrbest wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Pretty sad. I think this is what they mean by "entitelement." 

I was a fan of Star Wars for a time. Then Lucas changed it. I am no longer a fan. Are you saying that I never was a fan in the first place? I didn't demand that he change it back. That's not my call. I don't own Star Wars. As a fan my powers involve bestowing praise or grievance, but not rejection. Once I reject things, I am no longer a fan of them. 

This is something you will have to accept. You are no longer a Mass Effect fan. It's probably going to take some time for you to realize it, but eventually it'll happen and you'll stop trolling fan forums.

I am a Mass Effect fan, defending it against an ending written by someone who is clearly not a fan.
I will not let the best sci-fi universe of recent times be maliciously destroyed like this. Not without a fight.

Mass Effect deserves more. BioWare deserves more.

But under the same regard isn't Bioware allowed to experiment with how they tell the story? We have three games in the series that are all told under different elements of story telling. So where is the line that says Casey isn't a fan of the game drawn when you could apply that to every game in the series? Where is the line drawn for buisness practice and how a story is told?

They're only allowed to do that if they had never said, this is the fans story, your choices will matter. The minute they brought the fans into it, is the minute they lost the right to experiement with it.

[Hexley UK]

Opsrbest wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Pretty sad. I think this is what they mean by "entitelement." 

I was a fan of Star Wars for a time. Then Lucas changed it. I am no longer a fan. Are you saying that I never was a fan in the first place? I didn't demand that he change it back. That's not my call. I don't own Star Wars. As a fan my powers involve bestowing praise or grievance, but not rejection. Once I reject things, I am no longer a fan of them. 

This is something you will have to accept. You are no longer a Mass Effect fan. It's probably going to take some time for you to realize it, but eventually it'll happen and you'll stop trolling fan forums.

I am a Mass Effect fan, defending it against an ending written by someone who is clearly not a fan.
I will not let the best sci-fi universe of recent times be maliciously destroyed like this. Not without a fight.

Mass Effect deserves more. BioWare deserves more.

But under the same regard isn't Bioware allowed to experiment with how they tell the story? We have three games in the series that are all told under different elements of story telling. So where is the line that says Casey isn't a fan of the game drawn when you could apply that to every game in the series? Where is the line drawn for buisness practice and how a story is told?

Not in the final 10 minutes of an established trilogy no.

[The Almighty Ali]

AtlasMickey wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

No, I am not here to do BioWare any favors. I'm here to show my appreciation for them, to bestow praise, and love for their work.

Then why do you defend an ending that takes their work, puts it in a blender and sets it to purée?

A true fan doesn't blindly accept, but they do accept, which is more than can be said for you. My critiques are manifold.

That is where you're mistaken. A fan does not accept something that goes against the themes of the entire series.
A fan does not sit there, recieve an inadequate product and ask for more of the same.

A fan helps the developer realise where they went wrong.

Pretty sad. I think this is what they mean by "entitelement." 

I was a fan of Star Wars for a time. Then Lucas changed it. I am no longer a fan. Are you saying that I never was a fan in the first place? I didn't demand that he change it back. That's not my call. I don't own Star Wars. As a fan my powers involve bestowing praise or grievance, but not rejection. Once I reject things, I am no longer a fan of them. 

This is something you will have to accept. You are no longer a Mass Effect fan. It's probably going to take some time for you to realize it, but eventually it'll happen and you'll stop trolling fan forums.

Strange I thought we were talking about how we didn't like a part of the game, thus voicing our grievance.
If we'd rejected it then we'd shrug our shoulders and move on from the start.

As for the whole " I'm a bigger fan then you", What are you, 5 years old and still stuck in a sandbox claiming your dad is stronger then someone elses dad.
You find the game perfect, great for you.
But it seems others doesn't and you should learn to accept that not everybody shares your views.

[Versidious]

Opsrbest wrote...

olf1 wrote...

I'm I the only one who still likes and respects Casey?

I do. What or how Bioware came to the conclusion to finish the game in the manner they did, it doesn't matter me. We have an issue with for the majority the final 97% of the finished product at the end of the day on the BSN. I say the guy did a pretty damn good job over the entire series if it's only the final 3% of the game that people don't like.

Grats to him.

You're not. He's made a mistake, and I hope he will fix it. Either way, he's worked hard in the past to bring us great games. If he at least honestly tries to sort this, out to our satisfaction I'll forget it ever happened. If he doesn't, *then* I'll lose a lot of respect for him. I don't, for example, think he's a liar, but I don't think he can be trusted to stick to his stated intentions any more.

[SirBob1613]

I know what there dueing in those meetings seeing how much they can charge us for new ending dlc yellow orange and purple

[Kanon777]

Ketten wrote...

tobito113 wrote...


I just did a check on the story forums. There not a SINGLE positive tread about what people like about this game, or the fact that they apreciate Biowares work on ME3. All i see is how bioware must die or how EA is the anti christ or how evil Casey is for not giving them a better ending. Go to the story board yourself you wont find a single positive tread. This is what the ME fanbase is all about these days.

I don't personally approve of the disrespect of BioWare, but the fact of the matter is, people who find flaws in a game will flock to the flaws and let it be known far more than the people that genuinely enjoyed something. It's been commonplace on boards like these since they've been made. And there have been threads where people have stated (and rightly so), that the majority of the game was great if not fantastic.

It's just the ending. That's it. The last 10 minutes that have riled people up because of the overwhelming plot holes. And funny thing is, that's what people post about, the ending. Not the first ten minutes of the game, or the middle of the game, the ending. 

My point is not what the "community" thinks, but how they behave, check these forums and check the treads that are made every moment. If you make a neutral or positive tread it will go to the 3rd page after 30 seconds.

If you make an evill "EAware" or another Forbes circlejerk or another videoblog on how the ending gave made them feel like they got cancer (this was a real tread btw) or how they will neve buy any Bioware product anymore your tread is guaranteed to get automatic 5 stars and be on the front page for days...

Modifié par tobito113, 05 avril 2012 - 12:33 .

[The Angry One]

Opsrbest wrote...

But under the same regard isn't Bioware allowed to experiment with how they tell the story? We have three games in the series that are all told under different elements of story telling. So where is the line that says Casey isn't a fan of the game drawn when you could apply that to every game in the series? Where is the line drawn for buisness practice and how a story is told?

Hey, when Black Isle wanted to experiment with storytelling, they made Planescape: Torment.
They did not mess around with the end of Fallout to come up with a theme counter to everything else in the game.

Just as a random example.

Also, I was not accusing Casey Hudson of not being a fan, but a certain someone else.

Modifié par The Angry One, 05 avril 2012 - 12:35 .

[Hexley UK]

Versidious wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

olf1 wrote...

I'm I the only one who still likes and respects Casey?

I do. What or how Bioware came to the conclusion to finish the game in the manner they did, it doesn't matter me. We have an issue with for the majority the final 97% of the finished product at the end of the day on the BSN. I say the guy did a pretty damn good job over the entire series if it's only the final 3% of the game that people don't like.

Grats to him.

You're not. He's made a mistake, and I hope he will fix it. Either way, he's worked hard in the past to bring us great games. If he at least honestly tries to sort this, out to our satisfaction I'll forget it ever happened. If he doesn't, *then* I'll lose a lot of respect for him. I don't, for example, think he's a liar, but I don't think he can be trusted to stick to his stated intentions any more.

+1

[RocketManSR2]

The Angry One wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Pretty sad. I think this is what they mean by "entitelement." 

I was a fan of Star Wars for a time. Then Lucas changed it. I am no longer a fan. Are you saying that I never was a fan in the first place? I didn't demand that he change it back. That's not my call. I don't own Star Wars. As a fan my powers involve bestowing praise or grievance, but not rejection. Once I reject things, I am no longer a fan of them. 

This is something you will have to accept. You are no longer a Mass Effect fan. It's probably going to take some time for you to realize it, but eventually it'll happen and you'll stop trolling fan forums.

I am a Mass Effect fan, defending it against an ending written by someone who is clearly not a fan.
I will not let the best sci-fi universe of recent times be maliciously destroyed like this. Not without a fight.

Mass Effect deserves more. BioWare deserves more.

Star Wars didn't need any improvement. ME3 does. Oh, and Han shot first.

[pikey1969]

Sublyminal wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Pretty sad. I think this is what they mean by "entitelement." 

I was a fan of Star Wars for a time. Then Lucas changed it. I am no longer a fan. Are you saying that I never was a fan in the first place? I didn't demand that he change it back. That's not my call. I don't own Star Wars. As a fan my powers involve bestowing praise or grievance, but not rejection. Once I reject things, I am no longer a fan of them. 

This is something you will have to accept. You are no longer a Mass Effect fan. It's probably going to take some time for you to realize it, but eventually it'll happen and you'll stop trolling fan forums.

I am a Mass Effect fan, defending it against an ending written by someone who is clearly not a fan.
I will not let the best sci-fi universe of recent times be maliciously destroyed like this. Not without a fight.

Mass Effect deserves more. BioWare deserves more.

But under the same regard isn't Bioware allowed to experiment with how they tell the story? We have three games in the series that are all told under different elements of story telling. So where is the line that says Casey isn't a fan of the game drawn when you could apply that to every game in the series? Where is the line drawn for buisness practice and how a story is told?

They're only allowed to do that if they had never said, this is the fans story, your choices will matter. The minute they brought the fans into it, is the minute they lost the right to experiement with it.

Uhhh... I kinda take issue with that sentiment. Just because one of the core mechanics is for the player to choose from the given options within the story, and just because Bioware has a history of intergrating fan feedback, does not deny Bioware the freedom to experiment with and introduce new concepts. In fact some of the very things that hte same fans love and appreciate like the 'player romances' and 'gay relationships' and etc are products of Bioware 'experimenting'.

The endings being poor is almost irrelevant and very much a seperate issue to this imo.

[AtlasMickey]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]AtlasMickey wrote...

I was wondering when someone would say this... no, it really doesn't contradict it. 

If you really want to see my thoughts on it, why not visit this thread that also brings up Legion's rarely seen renegade comments from ME2.

Link

No one has responded to my comments there, yet. My wall of text seems to have stopped the thread dead lol. [/quote]

You're dealing in irrelevancy, whether starbaby made the Reapers or not, his words, along with Harbinger's conspicuous silence, completely neuter the Reapers.
Any assertion that starbaby does not directly and totally control the Reapers is contradicted by the control ending.[/quote]

Plainly wrong. Reapers have every indication of being gender neutral already, but that's a straw man. It's not the Catalyst that directly controls the reapers in the control ending, it's the Crucible. If wanted to show me that you cared about discussion, though, you'd take it to that thread, so it could be easier to read for others who want to follow along. I don't know why I'm asking a troll to do that, but I guess I'm bored.

[quote][quote]I fully admit that the Mass Effect 3 story and ending requires a person to think through it, but that's one of the reasons why I enjoy it. I would hope that Mass Effect appeals to people who like to actually think about these issues and not stop thinking because they reach some uncomfortable impasse.
[/quote]

Oh look, it's the "you don't get it" defence.
No. This ending requires no thought whatsoever. None. You are again engaging in a popular pasttime among many who like the ending, which you share with IT theorists - you are making up your own ending in your head, and presenting that as canon.

Doesn't work, sorry.[/quote]

[/quote]

You assert that the ending requires no thought. Well! Of course we couldn't have a discussion, then, since those tend to require thought.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 05 avril 2012 - 12:37 .