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[SuperZombieChow]

Tali's picture. That was seriously, SERIOUSLY lazy. I had a bad feeling from there, and after I got shot by Harbinger it was one bad confirmation after another...

[PoisonMushroom]

Honestly, my experiences of the ending were completely fraught with woe, even with the game paused.

I'd just entered the beam to go up to the citadel, and knowing that only the last few minutes of what had been about 80+ hours of gameplay for me as a trilogy remained, I took a deep breath and decided to hold it off a moment longer by going to the toilet. I stood up and began walking out my room, when my oversized bear feet slippers got caught on my xbox controller cable, pulling over my xbox, which of course made a horrific grinding noise as the disc got mashed up, meaning I had to wait all night to finish the last 15 minutes because all cd buffing places were closed (at this point I still thought the ending would be amazing). So yea, I found that whole experience to be a slightly ominous moment of foreshadowing.

[DarkShadow]

First "uh-oh" came with the first dream sequence, it already felt out of place because of the forced emotional response it was asking for. However, once it was over, I quickly forgot about that because the game returned to being AWESOME.

Other dream sequences, I simply accepted them.

Second "uh oh" came when the beam hit me and my squadmates disappeared. Although the scenes shortly after partly made up for this.

Third and final "uh oh" came when seeing the god child. Game went downhill from there.

Modifié par DarkShadow, 04 avril 2012 - 11:51 .

[streamlock]

When I clicked the confirm pre-order button.

I'm batting a 1000 with them.

[Grasich]

My first "uh oh" moment was actually right at the start of the game, when throughout the whole Earth mission there were maybe 10 dialogue choices that really weren't even very different each time.

Then Kai Leng... that was just dumb. Kai Leng is what happens when you take Vasir, strip away everything interesting about her character, make her absurdly weak, and give her ridiculous plot armor. Maybe he was better in the books, but in ME3 he was god awful.

Tuchanka and Rannoch gave me hope, but Thessia stripped it all away again. Why did I have to have that gun ship help me? In ME1 if a situation like that arose there would be the option to either have it help you, or go back and help the Asari commandos at the base. Then of course the Kai Leng fight... unwinnable fights are not cool... ever... absurdly difficult fights that you're supposed to lose, but CAN win are great (such as the DA:O prison fight). Of course, then there was the whole forced raging and sadness after Thessia, which just doesn't fit a lot of Shepards.

Then London... I actually didn't have an issue with London until I realized that it really was the last mission. I kept expecting something to happen that would mean the game would have another 6-10 hours of gameplay left.... nope...

[The Charnel Expanse]

Sparse wrote...

I expect I'll have to post this many times before this thread mercifully dies.

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">Guys, stay focused and remember that ]throughout the first two games, everyone save for a handful of people and factions in a galaxy of TRILLIONS are even aware [or acknowledge] that the Reapers are even a real thing. It takes having the Reapers at their doorstep to get them to realize they are in danger.[/color]

In light of this, it should not be in any way problematic for the narrative that plans for an anti-reaper superweapon [that, keep in mind, nobody even knows how it'll work, and is acknowledged as basically a hail mary by everyone involved] shortly after the reaper invasion begins, because within the scope of the game universe only said handful of people and factions realize the reapers can't be defeated conventionally and are looking for such a thing.

In short, THE CRUCIBLE IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA.

Still it was rather convenient - regardless of whether it is reasonable or not that it has never been noticed. I didn't think they'd go down the 'look what we've found' route, I thought they'd develop something from on of the other games.

I actually thought the bigger problem with the whole Crucible things was the whole having no idea what it actual did yet still diverting all possible resources, in the middle of a war, towards it purely because Liara thought it may do something useful.

Unfortunately, there was no better option in-universe. You're pretty much browbeaten with the fact that the reapers can't be defeated conventionally, so everyone is pretty much stuck throwing a hail mary.. 

[Herr Sovereign]

(Priority: Earth)
"The Fleet is ready to fire on your go, Commander."

"Fire!"

*Epic minute of space battle ensues*

*Prematurely ends with Normandy bypassing the Reaper Fleet and landing on Earth, leaving the allied forces to fend for themselves*

Modifié par Herr Sovereign, 04 avril 2012 - 11:53 .

[Athro]

To be honest? When Liara mentioned that she had found a Reaper defeating device on Mars. My very first thought was "and there it is. Hello Macguffin!"

But taking a Manhattan Project approach helped me get over that. It's just such a lazy piece of plotting because the minute Liara mentions it, she might as well call it "plotty mcplotdevice."

The point of a plot device is to push the plot forward without being obvious that it exists solely to do that. The Crucible is so obviously a "push this button to end the game" device, and it just vanishes in the background after you get the plans until the writers are ready to end the story.

The second was pretty much the entire Thessia temple section, especially when the VI mentions the cycle. That whole section again felt like a lazy "let's quickly lay down the foundations of our revelation at the last minute" exposition. The worst bit about that section is that when asked about the Catalyst, the VI filibusters long enough for Kai Leng to show up - which is further spoiled when it is later revealed that the Catalyst is the Citadel. Because it then means that the whole ramble in the temple was simply because the writers couldn't reveal it was the Citadel at that time and had to find some excuse for why the VI couldn't say it. But all the ramble it makes is too obvious once you learn the truth.

I kept hoping I was just being cynical, but when the mechanics of the plot are so blatantly on the screen and not well disguised... it doesn't engender confidence.

[Lionel Ou]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Pandaman102 wrote...

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

In short, THE CRUCIBLE IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA.

No, the Crucible is a MacGuffin. The Starchild is the deus ex machina ("god out of the machine", sound familiar?).

There are macguffins EVERYWHERE in all three ME games. The crucible being one is not an issue for me.
And starchild isn't a deus ex machina either, because that's not what the term actually means. Yes, it's the literal definition, but it's not how plot device is understood. 

"is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object."

So you're saying that the abrupt and unexpcted apperance of the Starchild, where he gives you 3 options to choose from to end the reapers, is not a deus ex machina?

[Alros Faevar]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

2) On Rannoch talking to the Reaper

Okay, I'll bite... why was this problematic? I thought it was awesome.

Hm, just played it again but it seems I mixed that up. Thought this was one of the scenes where they hinted at something bigger controlling the reapers. Must have heard that at some other point.

[Kamuchi]

Sparse wrote...

I expect I'll have to post this many times before this thread mercifully dies.

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">Guys, stay focused and remember that ]throughout the first two games, everyone save for a handful of people and factions in a galaxy of TRILLIONS are even aware [or acknowledge] that the Reapers are even a real thing. It takes having the Reapers at their doorstep to get them to realize they are in danger.[/color]

In light of this, it should not be in any way problematic for the narrative that plans for an anti-reaper superweapon [that, keep in mind, nobody even knows how it'll work, and is acknowledged as basically a hail mary by everyone involved] shortly after the reaper invasion begins, because within the scope of the game universe only said handful of people and factions realize the reapers can't be defeated conventionally and are looking for such a thing.

In short, THE CRUCIBLE IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA.

Still it was rather convenient - regardless of whether it is reasonable or not that it has never been noticed. I didn't think they'd go down the 'look what we've found' route, I thought they'd develop something from one of the other games.

I actually thought the bigger problem with the whole Crucible things was the whole having no idea what it actual did yet still diverting all possible resources, in the middle of a war, towards it purely because Liara thought it may do something useful.

It would have worked nicely if the tech was gatherd from the Collectors base, if we kept it, if we destroyed it, we`d have to fight them with every signle ship we could find (aka make sense of gathering the galaxy on both accounts) and not as you said "Oh, we found a super weapon that will fix this annoyance and we know it`s a weapon cause no one has a clue but Liara thinks so"

[eddieoctane]

When I took an "up" elevator to the underside of the Presidium tower. I didn't get much time to think on it at the moment, as writers were busy destroying my favorite sci-fi universe. But it meant the entire conversation aboard the citadel was upside down, and the console that opened the arms of the Citadel was actually coming out of the ceiling.

[Zebra3]

I first raised my eyebrows at what Liara found out on Mars about the superweapon. But then I just decided to go with it. I can forgive a lot and suspend belief.

Where it all fell apart for me was, yep, the elevator of light with the Star Brat. At that point I knew it wasn't MY Shepard any more.

[Grasich]

Kamuchi wrote...

Sparse wrote...

I expect I'll have to post this many times before this thread mercifully dies.

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">Guys, stay focused and remember that ]throughout the first two games, everyone save for a handful of people and factions in a galaxy of TRILLIONS are even aware [or acknowledge] that the Reapers are even a real thing. It takes having the Reapers at their doorstep to get them to realize they are in danger.[/color]

In light of this, it should not be in any way problematic for the narrative that plans for an anti-reaper superweapon [that, keep in mind, nobody even knows how it'll work, and is acknowledged as basically a hail mary by everyone involved] shortly after the reaper invasion begins, because within the scope of the game universe only said handful of people and factions realize the reapers can't be defeated conventionally and are looking for such a thing.

In short, THE CRUCIBLE IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA.

Still it was rather convenient - regardless of whether it is reasonable or not that it has never been noticed. I didn't think they'd go down the 'look what we've found' route, I thought they'd develop something from one of the other games.

I actually thought the bigger problem with the whole Crucible things was the whole having no idea what it actual did yet still diverting all possible resources, in the middle of a war, towards it purely because Liara thought it may do something useful.

It would have worked nicely if the tech was gatherd from the Collectors base, if we kept it, if we destroyed it, we`d have to fight them with every signle ship we could find (aka make sense of gathering the galaxy on both accounts) and not as you said "Oh, we found a super weapon that will fix this annoyance and we know it`s a weapon cause no one has a clue but Liara thinks so"

Ya... as much as I like Liara... she needs to be sat down now and then, and told that she has no idea what she's talking about.

[KONG33]

SuperZombieChow wrote...

Tali's picture. That was seriously, SERIOUSLY lazy. I had a bad feeling from there, and after I got shot by Harbinger it was one bad confirmation after another...

I thought it was ok at first.Then I found out about the laziness. Jeez they could have done the same thing with a glamour shot of the real Tali voice actress and it would have been at least a cool easter egg .But NO I guess if you're gonna lame out you do it COMPLETELY :(for arts sake.

[The Charnel Expanse]

Lionel Ou wrote...

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Pandaman102 wrote...

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

In short, THE CRUCIBLE IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA.

No, the Crucible is a MacGuffin. The Starchild is the deus ex machina ("god out of the machine", sound familiar?).

There are macguffins EVERYWHERE in all three ME games. The crucible being one is not an issue for me.
And starchild isn't a deus ex machina either, because that's not what the term actually means. Yes, it's the literal definition, but it's not how plot device is understood. 

"is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object."

So you're saying that the abrupt and unexpcted apperance of the Starchild, where he gives you 3 options to choose from to end the reapers, is not a deus ex machina?

The linchpin of this argument appears to be that the starchild actually solves anything, or serves any purpose other than that of an [incredibly sloppy] exposition fairy. He does not. Therefore, not a deus ex machina.

[j78]

When I got back to earth and the game turned in to horde mode form gears of war.

[Sparse]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...
Unfortunately, there was no better option in-universe. You're pretty much browbeaten with the fact that the reapers can't be defeated conventionally, so everyone is pretty much stuck throwing a hail mary.. 

Yeah fair point.

I thought (before I played ME3) that they were going to go down the route of the AI rewriting and viruses that Tali's father was working on - attacking the Reapers with viruses to weaken them for conventional war assets to finish off kind of thing.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Strange Aeons wrote...

I had a feeling there were going to be problems back at the beginning when they conveniently discovered the plans for the magical anti-Reaper superweapon just as the Reapers began their invasion.

Guys, stay focused and remember that throughout the first two games, everyone save for a handful of people and factions in a galaxy of TRILLIONS are even aware [or acknowledge] that the Reapers are even a real thing. It takes having the Reapers at their doorstep to get them to realize they are in danger.

In light of this, it should not be in any way problematic for the narrative that plans for an anti-reaper superweapon [that, keep in mind, nobody even knows how it'll work, and is acknowledged as basically a hail mary by everyone involved] shortly after the reaper invasion begins, because within the scope of the game universe only said handful of people and factions realize the reapers can't be defeated conventionally and are looking for such a thing.

In short, THE CRUCIBLE IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA.

It really isn't. Not the catalyst itself, but the god child and that part of the Citadel on the other hand...

[D3SM0ND0]

My 1st uh-oh moment was when MP was confirmed. It left a little niggling feeling in the back of my mind that made me uneasy.

[Kaji-chan]

J-Sheridan wrote...

Liara - A weapon of unimaginable size and unquantifiable levels of destruction

Translation: We just discovered a super-weapon that will magically make all our problems go away.

Excellent observation.  I also choked a bit when she said that.  I figured it was just Liara being Liara.

Or how about immediately after, when the Coucil stuck a finger up their nose and pretended that the Reapers weren't going to pose any threat to them as long as they stayed on the Citadel?

OR HOW ABOUT the fact that the Reapers never thought to attack the Citadel until the END of the game?  Wasn't that their game plan for the last dozen eradication cycles?  They're machines, why change plans now?  Take out the center of government and the rest of the galaxy will fall into chaos.  Worked for them before.....

[The Charnel Expanse]

Sparse wrote...

The Charnel Expanse wrote...
Unfortunately, there was no better option in-universe. You're pretty much browbeaten with the fact that the reapers can't be defeated conventionally, so everyone is pretty much stuck throwing a hail mary.. 

Yeah fair point.

I thought (before I played ME3) that they were going to go down the route of the AI rewriting and viruses that Tali's father was working on - attacking the Reapers with viruses to weaken them for conventional war assets to finish off kind of thing.

That would be ignoring the fact that the reapers aren't the geth. And also would probably make for a very boring game.

[Se7eNytes]

Cutscene saying that the ground team running towards the beam was killed.

[BladyMZ]

Going to Mars for data on "Prothean long-lost weapon" - by that point I realised, that despite Casey telling us directly there won't be a MacGuffin to solve conflict...Crucible sucks and I would rarther have Shepard use Thanix Pistols to...what am I saying?

[Lionel Ou]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Lionel Ou wrote...

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Pandaman102 wrote...

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

In short, THE CRUCIBLE IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA.

No, the Crucible is a MacGuffin. The Starchild is the deus ex machina ("god out of the machine", sound familiar?).

There are macguffins EVERYWHERE in all three ME games. The crucible being one is not an issue for me.
And starchild isn't a deus ex machina either, because that's not what the term actually means. Yes, it's the literal definition, but it's not how plot device is understood. 

"is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object."

So you're saying that the abrupt and unexpcted apperance of the Starchild, where he gives you 3 options to choose from to end the reapers, is not a deus ex machina?

The linchpin of this argument appears to be that the starchild actually solves anything, or serves any purpose other than that of an [incredibly sloppy] exposition fairy. He does not. Therefore, not a deus ex machina.

He is the only reason you get to choose, without him activating the elevator and getting you to the "control room", you wouldn't have a clue about it. He's directly responsible for moving Shepard to where he needs to be to to choose.