383 réponses à ce sujet

[MrrBond]

My first moment was when they mentioned the crucible. My gut feeling was "damnit a simple off-switch" but I managed to keep hope in bioware and forget about it.

It was a little after Tuchaka that I heard rumors of a bad ending. I stayed clear of any spoilers, and was convinced that it was just some nerdrage. I had faith.

Next was a little before the reaper on Rannoch. Throughout the game the reapers didn't quite feel like an immediate threat, what with the lack of interaction and of course Harbinger. But then I spoke to the reaper and was reassured.

Next was Thessia. The conversation with the VI left me... uneasy. It looked like they would go for some weird "artsy" ending. But I kept playing and, again, forgot.

I was completely distracted by the awesome up until the end. I was okay with moving the citadel and it being the catalyst; using their own creation seemed fitting.

Again, I was distracted by the space scene to notice the lack of my war assets. I was convinced I would like the ending. The came Harbinger. There was the neat scene showing the beam at the end and Harbinger seemed just... thrown in, like they forgot about him and just threw him in the back for lulz.

And then he shot me. Here I first worried that the rumors of a bad ending were true. Harbinger flew off and I thought "really???? no talk, he just comes and doesnt even make sure Im dead?" That part pissed me off, but I held my breath until TIM. I was blown away by this part because I got him to kill himself, which I thought was an awesome throwback to Saren. My jaw literally dropped. And as Shepard and Anderson talked I was sure I had been trolled, this ending was going good.

Then Hacket spoke. Here my true alarms went off. This meant anything could happen...

And the worst happened. The instant the elevator happened I literally thought "oh please let it NOT be a god-like being who will solve everything."

Then I saw the kid and gave up hope. I barely listened to what he said. And when the options showed up I LITERALLY thought "DAMNIT!!! a choose A, B, or C ending? didnt Deus Ex do this?" I didnt pause to think which ending to choose. I set out to destroy the reapers and DAMNIT that's what I was gonna do. The rest was just bleh. Compared to the epic feeling endings of the first to, this piano crap felt forced. I went to sleep emotionally void. (SIDE NOTE: did anyone else find it odd that the last cutscene looked VERY similar to the reveal trailer (London)? It's been bugging me)

And I knew the forums would be waiting with answers to all my questions...

Hold. The. Line.

[BigGuy28]

First time I saw Asian_with_a_Sword_Wearing_Black_4826 I knew something was off with the game. I already knew the endings were terrible but he was the first indication of what festered deep in the game.

[LordJeyl]

Jeyl's "Uh oh"s.

1. "This isn't about strategy or tactics, this is about survival. We fight or we die."
Shepard, those two things do not belong together.

3. That stupid kid. I hate that kid. I loath that kid. I don't give a crap about that kid. But he's the emotional focus for Shepard throughout this entire game, and interrupts all my tender romance moments with my love interest. When my Femshep asks Samantha to stay with her and the two tender to each other, I don't want a dream showing me that gawddang kid!

2. "The Council? The fight is here!"
Shepard apparently developed a hatred for every single race in the galaxy that wasn't human.

3. A weapon designed by several species over several cycles of Reaper genocide. If one of the Reapers' goals was to wipe out all traces of previous civilizations from the galaxy but somehow managed to miss this one piece of technology and never knew about it, I wouldn't be going "We have an iwin button!", I would be going "TRAP!".

4. Liara asking if the relationship should continue. Listen Liara, when I brought you onboard the Normandy, I said I wanted to get married, grow old together and have lots of blue daughters. You even made me promise to always come back to you, which I said I would EVEN IN DEATH. The last thing I need for you to do is ask me if I still want to take this relationship seriously. How can I reassure you I'm dead set in this??

5. The Citadel taking on refugees. There is a planet in the same sector called Bekenstein. Even if they didn't want us, I think going there would make the station more manageable.

6. Mission Logs. I can't find @&!$.

7. Kasumi Goto's quest bug. I couldn't finish her darn quest.

8. Sidequests being nothing more than just probing planets for items and artifacts. I remember in ME2 where we would actually LAND on the planet and retrieve whatever it was we needed to get.

9. Tali's photo. And fans continue to say that BioWare would lose their artistic integrity if they changed the endings.

10. Diana Allers. NOT AN ACTOR.

11. Admiral Hackett's justification for using the Crudible. No Admiral, America did not gamble the fate of the entire world when they used the atomic bomb. That thing about "igniting the atmosphere" was actually a miscalculation when the scientist conducting the study forgot to include "heat loss" into the equation. If he did the same study on a simple match, his results would show that the match would never burn out.

12. I want to talk to my mother.....

Modifié par LordJeyl, 05 avril 2012 - 12:05 .

[The Charnel Expanse]

Kaji-chan wrote...

OR HOW ABOUT the fact that the Reapers never thought to attack the Citadel until the END of the game?  Wasn't that their game plan for the last dozen eradication cycles?  They're machines, why change plans now?  Take out the center of government and the rest of the galaxy will fall into chaos.  Worked for them before.....

Fairly certain this was pretty well explained in the first two games.  

[DangerousPuddy]

As soon as I saw the Keeper on the citadel with all the dead bodies, I was weary it would be a mark of genius or a letdown. Sadly it was the latter.

[Kamuchi]

Grasich wrote...

Ya... as much as I like Liara... she needs to be sat down now and then, and told that she has no idea what she's talking about.

Yep lol, suprised she didn`t find the "off" switch when we went into that deralict reaper in ME2 

btw, did any one found a clue what the benefit of destroying that collectors base was, or not?
That human reaper kept appearing at TIM`s base...

Also if it was destroyed, that blast should have destroyed that human reaper to the molecule with such force, how could it bo so intact?

Modifié par Kamuchi, 05 avril 2012 - 12:10 .

[Kaji-chan]

Se7eNytes wrote...

Cutscene saying that the ground team running towards the beam was killed.

But then you look up and Marauder Shields is there to save you!

[Mandemon]

When the elevator activated. At that moment I went "uh-oh" and then I saw star child.

[Eyelidsz]

Starchild trotting out like his **** don't stink. I really felt a complete disconnect from the game right then. And it just kept getting dumber and dumber.

[TheGreenAlloy]

 My first Uh-oh moment?

Shep: You're not supposed to call me that, anymore, James.

Me: BW, who the hell is this guy?

BW: Shh, just play along.

[Grasich]

Kamuchi wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Ya... as much as I like Liara... she needs to be sat down now and then, and told that she has no idea what she's talking about.

Yep lol, suprised she didn`t find the "off" switch when we went into that deralict reaper in ME2 

btw, did any one found a clue what the benefit of destroying that collectors base was, or not?
That human reaper kept appearing at TIM`s base...

Also if it was destroyed, that blast should have destroyed that human reaper to the molecule with such force, how could it bo se intact?

I think if you destroyed the base and have very very low ems, you get only the destroy option, if you gave the base over and have very very low ems, you get only the control option.

Not sure if it does anything else.

[DarkShadow]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...
The linchpin of this argument appears to be that the starchild actually solves anything, or serves any purpose other than that of an [incredibly sloppy] exposition fairy. He does not. Therefore, not a deus ex machina.

No, the problem is that you guys don't get the idea behind a deus ex machina. The god child solves a problem of the plot, namely the question concerning the origin and purpose of the reapers. That's the perfect definition of a deus ex machina.

[Mr MM]

When tessia mission was in the middle, that was showing the drop of quality just right there, they had to solve the cerberus problem, and didnt know how.

[ihaveaglitch]

First was being hit by Harby's Beam, and the second as soon as Hackett opened his mouth after the scene with Anderson!

Modifié par ihaveaglitch, 05 avril 2012 - 12:09 .

[Sparse]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...
That would be ignoring the fact that the reapers aren't the geth. And also would probably make for a very boring game.

As killing the Reapers also appeared to kill the Geth....

Not really, you'd still have to build your fleet . You'd just be searching out research and equipment in the central missions rather than trying to find out what the Catalyst is. It'd be pretty much the same - you could even have the illusive man trying to stop you because he wanted to use the same virus/programme/whatever to control the Reapers. It would have just meant no Starchild, a few ties to ME2 and less space magic.

[Strange Aeons]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Sparse wrote...

I expect I'll have to post this many times before this thread mercifully dies.

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">Guys, stay focused and remember that ]throughout the first two games, everyone save for a handful of people and factions in a galaxy of TRILLIONS are even aware [or acknowledge] that the Reapers are even a real thing. It takes having the Reapers at their doorstep to get them to realize they are in danger.[/color]

In light of this, it should not be in any way problematic for the narrative that plans for an anti-reaper superweapon [that, keep in mind, nobody even knows how it'll work, and is acknowledged as basically a hail mary by everyone involved] shortly after the reaper invasion begins, because within the scope of the game universe only said handful of people and factions realize the reapers can't be defeated conventionally and are looking for such a thing.

In short, THE CRUCIBLE IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA.

Still it was rather convenient - regardless of whether it is reasonable or not that it has never been noticed. I didn't think they'd go down the 'look what we've found' route, I thought they'd develop something from on of the other games.

I actually thought the bigger problem with the whole Crucible things was the whole having no idea what it actual did yet still diverting all possible resources, in the middle of a war, towards it purely because Liara thought it may do something useful.

Unfortunately, there was no better option in-universe. You're pretty much browbeaten with the fact that the reapers can't be defeated conventionally, so everyone is pretty much stuck throwing a hail mary.. 

Gee, if only they had had the foresight to give the Crucible some sort of actual buildup and justification, it might not have seemed so contrived. 

Like, maybe Vigil could have dropped some hint way back in ME1, and then the last game could have started with us following up on it to learn something about its existence--you know, that would have given Liara (our resident archaeologist) something to contribute instead of sitting on the sideline--and then tracking down the truth about it while, say, Cerberus tries to stop us and take it for themselves because (dun dun DUN) the Illusive Man is really indoctrinated.  Instead, we spent the entire last game chasing around after the pointless sideshow that was the Collectors and going absolutely nowhere.

You know, for a trilogy that was supposedly planned out in advance, the story has a suspiciously ad hoc feel about it.

[Pandaman102]

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Pandaman102 wrote...

No, the Crucible is a MacGuffin. The Starchild is the deus ex machina ("god out of the machine", sound familiar?).

There are macguffins EVERYWHERE in all three ME games. The crucible being one is not an issue for me.
And starchild isn't a deus ex machina either, because that's not what the term actually means. Yes, it's the literal definition, but it's not how plot device is understood. 

The Crucible is a (presumed) ancient superweapon that wasn't discovered until the last minute, nobody knows what it's supposed to do, and next to nothing about its functionality is explained throughout the entire game until the Starchild tells you.

In contrast, the Collector base isn't revealed until after several run-ins with the Collectors and its importance is slowly revealed the more you learn about them. You don't show up on the base, unsure of why the Collectors are a threat and why you have to kill them, then have Harbinger tell you the Collectors used to be Protheans and they're the Reapers' servants in the last five minutes.

What's the MacGuffin in ME1, idly?

As for my comment on the deus ex machina: I know the literal meaning is not related to the plot device it describes, but I couldn't help but comment on it considering how it also literally describes the Starchild. That aside, the unsolvable problem presented is how to activate the Crucible to defeat the Reapers, the appearance of the Starchild and the knowledge it hands to you enables you to solve that problem. Without the Starchild, Shepard would have just died next to Anderson and the war lost.

You could argue that the Starchild is merely a device to deliver a deus ex machina, which in turn are the conveniently colored options and knowledge on what each will do - both of which are, again, presented within the last five minutes of the game.

Edit: I see that the other arguments are that the Conduit and Omega Relay are considered MacGuffins, which is true... although they at least made sense when their purpose was revealed.

Modifié par Pandaman102, 05 avril 2012 - 02:54 .

[Kamuchi]

Grasich wrote...

Kamuchi wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Ya... as much as I like Liara... she needs to be sat down now and then, and told that she has no idea what she's talking about.

Yep lol, suprised she didn`t find the "off" switch when we went into that deralict reaper in ME2 

btw, did any one found a clue what the benefit of destroying that collectors base was, or not?
That human reaper kept appearing at TIM`s base...

Also if it was destroyed, that blast should have destroyed that human reaper to the molecule with such force, how could it bo se intact?

I think if you destroyed the base and have very very low ems, you get only the destroy option, if you gave the base over and have very very low ems, you get only the control option.

Not sure if it does anything else.

Oh, that makes alot of sense with the technical superiority from having a full base of working Reaper tech to make Cerberus have an "i win" button 
Doing my 4th run with already 18794 EMS  (92% readiness) while just having saved Victus 

[nicksmi56]

The entire Priority Earth Mission.

[sioraf]

My first uh-oh moment was when I saw most of the human reaper at TIM's place, it made me realize that the biggest decision in ME2 really didn't matter.
I kept thinking that there was no way that this much of the reaper survived the collector base pretty much going supernova.
It went pretty much downhill from there really, by the time I was on the citadel I was way past uh-oh...it was pretty much just...how?...why?...eh?...wtf?

[KevShep]

Mev186 wrote...

After Shepard tried to reach the console and was magically whisked away to heaven the citadel..

This^.Actually that was my second uh-oh moment, my first was when I found out that the crucible was a kill all reapers button!

[JasonDaPsycho]

I had a feeling early on before I even played the game that the ending was going to be a downer. It might not disappoint, but Shepard would probably die anyways. Then I joined the spoiler group to see what's the real ending, out of curiousity. Unlike many, the conclusion wasn't really the point of the game to me. It was all about the journey. I cared about that Garrus romance more so than the ending.

Well, after that, I read the ending. I couldn't believe that the ending was actually bad enough to negate the journey throughout the three games. Initially, I wanted happy endings; eventually, I just asked for something that made sense.

As of current, I'm demanding an apology from BW or EA. Never gonna happen.

[MyChemicalBromance]

When they introduced the Crucible. I was so worried the whole game that we were going to get a Deus Ex Machina gun at the end... and then we actually got a Deus Ex Machina.

[Spectre Impersonator]

When Shepard had his third dream and saw himself hugging the kid and catching fire. Pretentious and foreshadowing an over-emphasis of the kid and the awful last ten minutes.

[RogueKrogan]

"I am the Catalyst".

My reaction:

Modifié par RogueKrogan, 05 avril 2012 - 12:34 .