662 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefario]

VirtualAlex wrote...

THE PIE IS ALL CONSUMERS

THE CHUNK IS A SUB SECTION OF THEM

Why does no one understand how a pie chart works?

I'm sure there's a quite a few people posting here who do know how a pie chart works. However, looking at the chart, I'm not sure that you do. The blue section, according to that legend, represents the number of copies of ME3 sold, while the red section represents the number of people signed up on specific groups on social media networks. Representing them as two separate sections on a pie graph implies they are mutually exclusive sections of a single population, not that one is a subsection of the other.
That's the problem in the visual representation - I think the problem in the statistical analysis is pretty self-evident.

In any case, numbers aren't really that important. I'd place more value on the reasons provided by those expressing their opinions (one way or the other). And from what I've seen, there have been some pretty valid criticisms of the way ME3 ended - whether they be criticisms of the details of the plot, the adherence to the themes, or simply elaborations on why they felt as they did about the ending.
There's been some white noise coming from people who didn't like the ending too, sure. But that does nothing to devalue some of the more thoughtful criticism offered up.

[durasteel]

VirtualAlex wrote...

The point of the thread is, just because it seems like everyone hates the ending, it actually isn't the case. 

Not everyone, only about 80%.

When you consistently recieve the same feedback from different samples, often of very significant size, then you can confidently extrapolate to the general population.

[Giguelingueling]

someone need to learn how to calcul probability and stats.

Modifié par Giguelingueling, 05 avril 2012 - 01:28 .

[Clayless]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

VirtualAlex wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The OPs logic is like this - over two million people bought ME3.  Of those two million, sixty six thousand joined a facebook group called "We Like Pepsi." Therefore everyone else who bought ME3 must like Coke.

That isn't even close to what my logic is. But that is a cool try.

Actually, that's exactly what your logic is.

The Pie Chart doesn't include the vocal people like yourself who say they enjoy the ending... last I checked, there was about 3000 of them.

You can't compare a vocal group with a non-vocal group because you have no idea where the non-vocal group stands by the mere fact that they are NON-VOCAL!

It would be ridiculous for either side to claim they're the majority, that's true.

[Xenoaroe]

From the 3-14 post on the blog....

 

The vast majority of players seem to hate the Mass Effect 3 ending.

[Nobrandminda]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Piechart displays haters out of all consumers. Not haters vs lovers.

You keep saying that, but no one is buying it.  

It is clear from your posts in this thread and the statements on your blog that the only reason you made the chart was to make it look like the Retake Mass Effect movement represents a minority opinion of the ending and that 97% of people who bought the game like the ending.  You said it yourself in the blog:

With all that screaming, all that crying and those stunts getting all of the ME3 publicity it's easy to lose track of the big picture. The big picture being, that the "retake" movement compromises a whopping 3% of the ME3 consumer base. They are demanding that BioWare remake the ending because they do not like it.

What about the other 97%? Definatly something to consider.

Modifié par Nobrandminda, 05 avril 2012 - 01:29 .

[CombustiblePanda]

So I guess if you didn't like the ending then you didn't actually buy the game, eh?

[Yorkston9152]

Xenoaroe wrote...

From the 3-14 post on the blog....

 

The vast majority of players seem to hate the Mass Effect 3 ending.

Its not in a vastly scewed pie chart format, therefor, that statement is false

[KingKhan03]

So let me get this straight what you are implying is if you bought the game and are not a part of retake you liked the ending? Nope.

[Spectre_Shepard]

your logic does not hold water.

catalyst? is that you?

[Mcfly616]

I'm not part of Retake.....but the endings taken at face value still suck lol.....the entire series is amazing....and the last 10 minutes are awful....no creativity, lot of laziness, no originality, no variation(broken promise)....


All in on the IT.....we'll see soon enough

[MingWolf]

VirtualAlex wrote...

MingWolf wrote...

I didn't like the ending.  I'm also not a member of the Retake Movement, since I never quite felt the need to become associated to an activist movement on a video game and instead make my occasional protest by occasionally replying to a topic here and then.  Yeah, I may not be vocal enough, but then, I don't really care either way whether the ending is changed or not.  It would be great if it did. 

In a way, this puts me on the 97% end of the pie chart, and yet I don't even support the ending.  Thus, if we were to take the pie chart as a tool of anything statistically meaningful in estimating haters vs non-haters, I would be an outlier and also a flaw in the methodology itself because, despite being in the 97%, I also don't consider the Retake movement to be a bad thing, and the pie chart almost tries to make a point by comparing the population of sales vs. a group where membership is optional.  Only problem is, I'm quite certain that there is a huge chunk of people just like me, as I would speculate, which would make the pie-chart completely meaningless. 

Piechart displays haters out of all consumers. Not haters vs lovers.

THE PIE IS ALL CONSUMERS

THE CHUNK IS A SUB SECTION OF THEM

Why does no one understand how a pie chart works?

Uh yeah, I'm sure most of us knows how a pie chart works.  But the problem is, your trying too hard to prove a point with your pie chart, and yet the context behind your chart appears flawed: conceptually, rationally, and statistically. 

The first flaw comes in your generalization of what makes up a hater.  If your trying to display haters out of all consumers by titling it the "retake mass effect 3 movement," you should perhaps take a course or two in statistics and perhaps something on social sciences in learning how to discover non-biased observational facts.  The fact is, not all consumers are associated with the Retake movement, and not all consumers are in support of the ending either.  Also, not all consumers associated with the Retake movement are haters either. 

You cannot simply take a quantifiable number representing "All Consumers" and then compare that to a group whose membership is again, optional, and assume that just because they don't have 50% or > members that constitute total sales that total haters is in the minority.  Not saying they can't be, but your method of expressing the differences does not make any sense.  Judging by the amount of emotion you posted in that website you linked, it just further goes against your favor in making an objective point, and people will be all over you on that. 

I'm not trying to mock or condescend you in any way, I'm just calling it out as I see it.  

[Cpand671]

Like previously mentioned:

1. http://alexjuice.com...nding-explained

Your first sentence is, "The vast majority of players seem to hate the Mass Effect 3 ending."

2. http://social.biowar.../index/10335120

In your thread (fail thread at that) you admit to advocating the Indoctrination Theory. The only reason you would advocate such a theory is if you had doubts about the actual ending, which brings me to #3

3. http://alexjuice.com...-morons-hate-it

In this you resort to raging like a child about how other people have different opinions than you. This makes me wonder why you supported the Indoctrination Theory if you think the endings were good. Are you calling yourself a moron?

4. http://social.biowar...index/9872713/4

"Just because the majority dislike it doens't mean anything about it's quality." here is another quote from you admitting the majority dislike it.


I can only assume you are a conflicted, bi-polar individual, or a troll.

Modifié par Cpand671, 05 avril 2012 - 01:42 .

[20x6]

VirtualAlex wrote...

MingWolf wrote...

I didn't like the ending.  I'm also not a member of the Retake Movement, since I never quite felt the need to become associated to an activist movement on a video game and instead make my occasional protest by occasionally replying to a topic here and then.  Yeah, I may not be vocal enough, but then, I don't really care either way whether the ending is changed or not.  It would be great if it did. 

In a way, this puts me on the 97% end of the pie chart, and yet I don't even support the ending.  Thus, if we were to take the pie chart as a tool of anything statistically meaningful in estimating haters vs non-haters, I would be an outlier and also a flaw in the methodology itself because, despite being in the 97%, I also don't consider the Retake movement to be a bad thing, and the pie chart almost tries to make a point by comparing the population of sales vs. a group where membership is optional.  Only problem is, I'm quite certain that there is a huge chunk of people just like me, as I would speculate, which would make the pie-chart completely meaningless. 

Piechart displays haters out of all consumers. Not haters vs lovers.

THE PIE IS ALL CONSUMERS

THE CHUNK IS A SUB SECTION OF THEM

Why does no one understand how a pie chart works?

The pie chart shows a sample of the people who disliked the game/endings vs an actual statistic of how many copies were sold.

What you did, effectively, is the equivalent to taking one water sample before water treatment and then applying the same treatment to all the water that passes through for the next week.  Then you wonder why people are getting sick, either from over treatment or from under treatment.


There are controlled variables and uncontrolled variables and you mixed the two which makes your pie chart ineffective.

Had you compared the two uncontrolled variables from the same sample area (get the Likes vs Dislikes from facebook) come up with a ratio and apply it to the total sales, you'd have a starting point for research data that could be applied to actual data to make a projection.  The more research data you have, the more accurate your projection will be (ie: the tolerance may go from +/- 40% to +/- 10%)


If you were to do what you just did in any industry, you'd be fired pretty fast.

So, not including the "likes" from the same source makes it so the pie chart is exactly useless for any application.


Don't take this as me "being high and mighty" take it as me actually caring a little.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

I know this is not contributing anything intellectual to the thread, but honestly...

WHO CARES.

[mrderp27]

i like cheetos

[Exeider]

I think whats funny, is the OP and those like him have blatelently ignored all the polls done, both here and abroad on other gaming sites, asking the same question about the ending, the samples are anywhere from 5k to 25k depending on which poll you look at, and the percentages are roughly the same, 85%-90% people dislike, hate or otherwise disagree with the ending, only 10%-15% of people like, agree or are agreeable to the endings.

usually sample numbers only need to be 1000 people to get a reliable poll, with a standard 3% deviation. increase that to 10k and you drop that to less then 1%. I'm sorry OP the polls say your wrong, dead wrong.

-AE

[Bearcavalryman]

Company stocks and a sudden drop in price invalidate your argument. many people dislike the ending of mass effect 3 but not all choose to join the retake mass effect movement, many of us speak with our wallets

[Kulthar Drax]

VirtualAlex wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

So then what's the point of the thread? nobody said The Retake movement have a million people in it we just said that they have enough fans to make themselves heard.

The point of the thread is, just because it seems like everyone hates the ending, it actually isn't the case. 

Well VirtualAlex, if we're going to be using Facebook as our "testbed", I just searched through the entirety of Facebook's Mass Effect 3 listing. Neither of these are specifically "We love the Ending" pages, but let's assume we use the most popular "liked" pages after the "Retake Mass Effect" page and the official Facebook page.

Mass Effect 3 Official (780,333 likes)
www.facebook.com/masseffect

Retake Mass Effect (60,046 likes)
www.facebook.com/DemandABetterEndingToMassEffect3

Mass Effect 3 Unofficial (19,656 likes)
www.facebook.com/MassEffect3.gg

We Love Mass Effect 3 (3,254 likes)
www.facebook.com/WeLoveMassEffect3

These are the top four "liked" Mass Effect 3 related pages on Facebook. All the rest number in the few hundred to few dozen "likes" (apart from the Commander Shepard Song For ME3 Easter Egg which has some 2,500). There is NO Facebook page that I can find that is for "We Love Mass Effect 3 Ending", unless you assume its the one called "We Love Mass Effect 3 (3,254 likes)", but even there people are complaining about the ending.

Even if you put ME3 unofficial and WLME 3 with the totals for the official Mass Effect 3 Facebook page and assume that ALL of those "likes" for those pages are from people who loved the game including the endings, that still means the Retake movement totals roughly some 8% of the total people who didn't like the endings, which still makes it almost three times your total in your chart. Now, I think it is totally reasonable to make the assumption that many people "liked" the official page (I did and I hated the endings, but I "liked" it before it even came out) but hated the ending. Indeed, there are countless topics regarding the endings on the official ME3 page, and most of the articles there are dealing with it.

So, you could also assume that perhaps the "We Love Mass Effect 3 (3,254 likes)" is in fact the group dedicated to people liking the endings, which would then put them in the vast, vast minority compared to the Retake movement's numbers.

Suffice to say, Facebook can't really give you an accurate reading on who likes or dislikes something in this respect, especially as there is only one Facebook page to take a realistic sampling from (the Retake Movement page). In the face of it though, there is far more evidence available for people not liking the endings than there is for anyone actually liking the endings. Merely being in the silent group of consumers does not count as liking it.

In fact, one could even argue that the mere fact there isn't a "We Love The Endings" Facebook page is an indication of those people who love the ending as being in the minority, but that again would be an assumption not based in any fact, much like your pie chart.

Modifié par Kulthar Drax, 05 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[knection]

I know EA/Bioware is going to miss my money.....
mwahahahahahaha

hold the line

[Elite Midget]

12 pages...

Did you all really eat the trollbait?

[Bloodhound66]

Has someone posted a troll-face for this thread yet? Op, you take a census to gather statistics about how many people feel this way or that way towards something, not use grade 5 division and multiplication. You = a derp.

[MPSai]

So you're just assuming anyone who played the game who didn't like/follow Retake (or may not even know about it) loved the ending?

[natalZ]

"PLEASE, VISIT MY BLOG. KKTHNX"

[PistolPete7556]

Special J wrote...

Your pie chart is about as crappy as the ending.

Yea it only had two colors. at least Bioware had the decency to use 3

Modifié par PistolPete7556, 05 avril 2012 - 01:50 .