662 réponses à ce sujet

[VirtualAlex]

Naoe wrote...

I'm not on facebook nor twitter... So my opinion doesn't count...?

I am sorry I must have missed you when I was doing the door-to-door research for my comprehensive study.

[Liber320]

VirtualAlex wrote...

pomrink wrote...

Op's logic:

I started a poll on how people feel about genocide, but only 4 people voted against it! Since there are 6 billion people on the planet, that means only 4 people in the whole world hate genocide! Everyone else loves it, let's start killing!

Nope, for the 30th time, I never made that claim. I simply said that people who aren't in the retake ME3 group, are not part of the retake ME3 movement.

Also I made another chart, since you guys are so insistant that I am not being fair. This one only compares fans of ME3 on facebook, or fans of Retake ME3 on facebook.

800,000 vs 60,000 for the lazy people. Which amounts to 7.5% still a substantial minority. There are people that have facebook and are active in the community (as demonstrated by thier membership to either group) also I think this segment of the population are more likely to express thier views than "average joe" so that whole 1=25 doesn't really do anything for me here.

Of course i realize some people who "like" ME3 also "like" retake, and some people don't like the ending but don't "like" retake. I am aware of this. But I can only measure what I see. As always I don't make assumptions.

Your thread title is "ME3 haters NOT the majority" not "Retake NOT the majority"

And you didn't make a new chart, you just changed the layout. The chart still represents the exact same thing, which is nothing useful in terms of your argument that "ME3 haters [are] NOT the majority"

I seriously hope you're just trolling, because I can't see how anyone could not get what we're (everyone that has responded, all 16 pages of us) telling you.

Unless, of course, you're one of those "I'm not the problem, everyone else is the problem!" types.

On the off chance you're not simply a troll, I'll break it down for you

What your title says: People that hate the ME3 ending are a vocal minority

What your chart says: Retake members are a minority compared to all the people who are not Retake members

What you seem to have deduced: More people like the ending than dislike it.

How are you not getting the leap of logic you've made? Even though everyone has pretty much been shoving your mistake in your face?

And for the whole "I don't make assumptions" line, that's a flat out lie.

-You assumed that most people have facebook
-You assumed that most people that play ME3 has facebook
-You assumed that most people that hate the ending are taking part in the Retake movement
-You assumed that everyone that plays ME3 and has facebook and hates the ending has 'liked' the Retake page
-You assumed that the ME3 player base is mostly "nerds, gamers, etc" (don't remember what page that post was on, and don't care enough to look for it)

That's 5 major assumptions, just off the top of my head.

Modifié par Liber320, 05 avril 2012 - 05:52 .

[corporal doody]

again with the HATE thing!!!

it should be "Those that wanted a happy ending" or perhaps "those that think the ending need to be fixed" or something to that effect....NOT HATERS!

but i may agree with the vocal minority thing (though i do not agree with how the minority is going about things)......meh with the chart....and meh to this topic

Modifié par corporal doody, 05 avril 2012 - 05:54 .

[Megachaz]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Naoe wrote...

I'm not on facebook nor twitter... So my opinion doesn't count...?

I am sorry I must have missed you when I was doing the door-to-door research for my comprehensive study.

I'll say it again.  If you're not going to do anything right, don't bother doing it at all.  It makes you look foolish.

[alx119]

I love how the signature of the OPs says "Ending is great and you are wrong" so arrogantly, and then it's just Indoctrination Theory...

The ending is so great fans thinks it was all a hallucination.

Also, try to be a bit less shortsighted, not everyone has facebook, not everyone has twitter, and not everyone comes to these forums. For every person who's on fb or twitter or here that hates the endings, there's 2 or 3 friends of them that agree. Now, of those 2 or 3 that agree also have 2 or 3 friends that also agree. Do your calculations as of how SERIOUS the situation is and how big the actual numbers can get.

[pomrink]

VirtualAlex wrote...

pomrink wrote...

That 800,000 number vs. 60,000 is completely irrelevant to your point, considering a sample size of 60,000 from a population of 800,00 is excessive. Actually, a sample size that large from a population that size lends credence to the claim that the majority of people hated the ending. Learn how statistics work before posting on your blog about them. I think high schools even teach statistics now.

So from a sample set of only facebook users, that have displayed activity in the community and demonstrated that they are not above "liking" the things they like.

60,000 / 800.000 is the majority because I do not understand stats?

Edit: For the record, I don't have a facebook.

Most people will not vote in a voluntary poll. If you could find a page saying people that liked the endings, you'd have a case. You don't. 60,000 is an excessive sample of a population, even with a 40% degree of failure, it's still very telling. Again, take a staistics corse, don't speak of things you know nothing about, you'll only spread ignorance.

Modifié par pomrink, 05 avril 2012 - 05:56 .

[D_Dude1210]

He's just a kid who wants attention.

Best to ignore him.

[Mev186]

I don't care if I was the only person who hated the ending and the entire world loved it. It doesn't make it a good ending.

[Nathan_41]

I'm so sick of people waving away their opposition as a "vocal minority". Anyone can say it, it doesn't make it true.

Comparing the number of fans who participated in a vote and voiced dissatisfaction with the ending cannot be straight up compared with the total number of ME3 consumers unless all ME3 consumers participated in that vote. Addition and Subtraction do not make accurate sales charts on their own.

TL;DR: You'll need to put some more effort into it.

Modifié par Nathan_41, 05 avril 2012 - 05:59 .

[VirtualAlex]

ticklefist wrote...

Man, that's some serious stat crunching.

For an encore perhaps you should look at the weekly percentage drops and compare them to that mega smash Dragon Age II. What you find may astonish you.

HAHA WHAT STAT CRUNCHING? What is wrong with you people.

You know if this was reddit, and you people were smarter than you clearly are, someone would have made a better chart than mine in about 5 min proving thier point better than I proved mine.

That is how you "counter troll" you do it better. But all you people can do is make shots in the dark about how I am doctoring up my numbers or doing bad math, or not understanding statistics.

How I am not taking into account the assumed massive population of haters that haven't proven thier hate in any tangible way.

How do you know you are the majority? Because all your close friends agree with you? All of my friends agree with me, isn't it weird how that works?! Amazon.uk wont sell it? I just looked it up, it's still there? Sales are dropping? Welcome to supply and demand. They sold 2.15 million already. It's ALREADY one of the top 10 grossing games on XBOX 360 after only 3 weeks on the market.

[Soaringeagle78]

Even with this new poll, your logic still sucks. Unless I see a poll showing people who specifically don't want to support this group, your argument doesn't work. Just taking facebook pages and comparing them to eachother doesn't prove anything. And your idea that there are active users of facebook that have specifically not joined the group can't prove anything either. Just because I liked a page on facebook for Adam Sandler doesn't mean that I'm going to look into every detail about him and other pages for it, so unless you've personally checked all 800,000 of those people, your numbers don't say anything worth knowing other than what common sense can tell you. Plus, the reason you fail for me is because the topic title says "ME3 ending haters" not "Retake Mass Effect are minority". So now it's either one or the other. 

Modifié par Soaringeagle78, 05 avril 2012 - 06:01 .

[Hibernating]

Your right, the retake ME3 people are a minority. The people who disliked the end on the other hand are not.
Im one of those diehard bioware fans who convinced 5-6 of my friends to get into the series and they all loved it, and yet all of them hated the ending. None of them went online however or filled out polls.
Does the BSN poll about the end hold a statistically accurate breakdown of the community? no. A poll which does not take a random sampling but is rather one you have to go and find never will be, yet does give a suggestion as to the breakdown.

[Joccaren]

Yes, because everyone who hasn't heard of/shown support for absolutely loved the endings, and thinks Bioware should do nothing to change them.
Of voters, we are the majority. Showing numbers of people 'liking' things, and purchase numbers, does nothing to tell you how many liked the ending and how many did not. There are likely a lot of people who liked the ending who didn't come online, and as many who hated the ending that didn't come online. Your graphs prove nothing.

[MeatShieldGriff]

Check Amazon and how a game that came out less than a month ago is down $10 from original price. Enough said.

[cutegigi]

D_Dude1210 wrote...

He's just a kid who wants attention.

Best to ignore him.

nah. he want hits for his site.....

[Sharn01]

I want a logical ending and am not a member of retake, I wonder how many more people like me are out there?

[ticklefist]

FemmeShep wrote...

I know I'm a hypocrite for saying this but...

Why are you guys all posting in this thread? It's clearly illogical and stupid. By posting and continuing to bump it, it's just giving attention to something that doesn't deserve it.

Oops, guess I just did the same thing.

Darn hypocrite. But alright. Let me get this parting shot out first.

2 weeks after release ME3's sales had already dropped 90%. By comparison, the heavily panned Dragon Age II was in it's 4th week before it began to see such a steep drop off in sales.

Basically, **** your stats, they don't matter. The customers are talking with their wallets, not facebook.

[Sohlito]

FemmeShep wrote...

I know I'm a hypocrite for saying this but...

Why are you guys all posting in this thread? It's clearly illogical and stupid. By posting and continuing to bump it, it's just giving attention to something that doesn't deserve it.

Oops, guess I just did the same thing.

I'm going to quote this, which also does not help but...well, s**t.

[GBJ13]

I think these numbers are pretty good: https://www.surveymo...M2rWBmgdEPFg_3d

Reasonable sample size, though obviously some concern about self-selection.
58.8% Hate the Ending
26.0% Dislike the Ending.

People may dislike the ending, but are not Retake Members for a variety of reasons, ranging from "I'll just trade the game in" to "it's their game, not mine." I think, however, most information shows that dislike position is the majority.  While it's impossible to know conclusively with the data we have, it's a pretty reasonable inference.

Your earlier post on Facebook membership discussed the  60k members who were part of the Retake Mass Effect. There are 700 members in the "Support Bioware" group which seeks to support the current ending. That group would probably be a better to compare the Retake tallies with than all those who like Mass Effect 3 or total games sold. Both include members that are passionate enough about the ending to join a group about it. In contrast, comparing everybody who likes ME3 to Retake ME seems invalid. There are lot of people who "like ME3" but dislike the ending.

Modifié par GBJ13, 05 avril 2012 - 06:11 .

[pomrink]

VirtualAlex wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Man, that's some serious stat crunching.

For an encore perhaps you should look at the weekly percentage drops and compare them to that mega smash Dragon Age II. What you find may astonish you.

HAHA WHAT STAT CRUNCHING? What is wrong with you people.

You know if this was reddit, and you people were smarter than you clearly are, someone would have made a better chart than mine in about 5 min proving thier point better than I proved mine.

That is how you "counter troll" you do it better. But all you people can do is make shots in the dark about how I am doctoring up my numbers or doing bad math, or not understanding statistics.

How I am not taking into account the assumed massive population of haters that haven't proven thier hate in any tangible way.

How do you know you are the majority? Because all your close friends agree with you? All of my friends agree with me, isn't it weird how that works?! Amazon.uk wont sell it? I just looked it up, it's still there? Sales are dropping? Welcome to supply and demand. They sold 2.15 million already. It's ALREADY one of the top 10 grossing games on XBOX 360 after only 3 weeks on the market.

Again sir, proper statistics would take that massive population of haters who haven't voiced their opinion quite easily.

Resorting to unfounded ad hominems will not help your case.

You should probably look up the definition of trolling (hint: it doesn't mean someone who disagrees with you)

The amazon retailer doesn't sell it, the vendors who sell via amazon do though, but that's not what was mentioned.

They didn't sell 2.15 million. They shipped it.

They use to teach logic courses in school.

[Rulycar]

corporal doody wrote...

again with the HATE thing!!!

it should be "Those that wanted a happy ending" or perhaps "those that think the ending need to be fixed" or something to that effect....NOT HATERS!

but i may agree with the vocal minority thing (though i do not agree with how the minority is going about things)......meh with the chart....and meh to this topic

Perhaps I show my age ...
... but hate used to mean you liked something less.

Growing up ...
... liking one daughter and hating another didn't mean you were your daughter's mortal enemy,
... just that you favored one daughter over another.

Since the 60s ...
... the meaning of "hate" has really eroded.

[Liber320]

Sohlito wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

I know I'm a hypocrite for saying this but...

Why are you guys all posting in this thread? It's clearly illogical and stupid. By posting and continuing to bump it, it's just giving attention to something that doesn't deserve it.

Oops, guess I just did the same thing.

I'm going to quote this, which also does not help but...well, s**t.

It's just too much fun. I love arguing with people who make stupid points. It helps keep in "in shape" for the real debates

[Nostradamoose]

So, according to stats, only about 5 % of people will go loud with their opinion while the rest will think it quietly.


Then, all the people vocally for and against Retake are about 5% of the fanbase.

Said 5% should then be split equivocally.




Meaning, retake mass Effect still garners a whole damn more weight than your stupid "stats" make it look like.

[TJX2045]

Well if the people who hate the ending are the "minority" (even after this being disproved by polls right here on the BSN with more than 95% of people not satisfied with it), then that's fine. Keep believing that.

Bioware, if you believe guys like the OP, keep doing so. The dissatisfied gamers who felt shafted by the ending, including myself, will speak with our wallets when the next game (notably, Dragon Age III) comes out.

And when it does, and if the ending has not been changed, do not be surprised if there are much less in the way of preorders and purchases.

So OP, you no longer need to worry about me. Because if Bioware decided that their ending is final, I shall not buy another game. Meaning that any more arguments you make against people like myself are invalid since I am protesting them the exact way most of you would tell us to. I can't get my money back for the game I bought. I definitely still enjoyed 1 & 2 and I don't want my money back for those. They were good. However, I will not buy the next game Bioware makes until I hear actual opinions on both sides of the coins ("critics" and users alike).

I will stick to other companies that make good games. And since the majority of them don't make games where I get so emotionally attached to the characters, I won't have to worry about the absolute rage I felt at the plotholes and lack of closure from Mass Effect 3's ending. It was a great game, but the ending made me cringe and I cannot get it out of my mind enough to fully enjoy the rest of the game the same way that I did before the ending. I enjoy the parts before the ending but I absolutely refuse to do the mission on Earth, if I even make it past the already heart wrenching mission on Thessia.

[xaliqen]

VirtualAlex wrote...

That is how you "counter troll" you do it better. But all you people can do is make shots in the dark about how I am doctoring up my numbers or doing bad math, or not understanding statistics.

If you don't understand why your analysis isn't very rigorous at this point, then no amount of formal logic is going to convince you.

Trying to prove a qualitative interpretation of a game's narrative using numbers isn't convincing even when someone knows what they're doing.