93 réponses à ce sujet

[thegreateski]

kevinwastaken wrote...

Dwarfs belong in any fantasy game I think, except maybe Conan-esque tales.

Elves on the otherhand... why do we need a race of hippys? Are manly midgets not enough?

[Tereval]

I think people mis-understand the dark fantasy concept.

Dragon Age is a tradtional fantasy world but it chooses a harder more realistic flesh take.



The dwarven society is very similar to traditional fantasy but the harsh nature is more realistic and less forgiving, the politics of an isolated appearance based culture are revealed, the seedy underbelly that other fantasy ignores or pretends doesn't happen. Its not a unique take on dwarves but perhaps a more honest one.



The elves of dragon age are similar, once immortal, magical and in decline, that is all normal for high fantasy. Dragon Age takes those notes and again shows how they would truly flesh out, what the term in decline would really mean. Wandering nomads and former slaves, the unfortunate and uncared for.



Loghain the great hero of Fereldan is a man of dark methods and a willing hand, he takes dark paths to make the choices he feels are right.





Even the religion, The Chantry, is in question. Is the Maker real? was Andraste the worlds greatest con artist or is it true? What is the Black City? why did it change?



Dragon Age is true dark fantasy in that it is a normal fantasy setting with the curtains fully draw apart and a world exposed in Sunlight and Darkness.

[bayareadodger69]

exorzist wrote...

"One of the major criticisms of Dragon Age: Origins..."

"American satirist Ambrose Bierce is often quoted as saying, “There is nothing new under the sun, but there are lots of old things we don’t know.” Which is full of all sorts of delightful irony if you consider that “There is nothing new under the sun,” was a Biblical quote some 1,800 years before. "

Of course the peerless Mr. Bierce defined a critic as, "A person who boasts himself hard to please, because nobody tries to please him."

Attention: This thread is now rendered moot by way of conflicting presentations of Ambrose Bierce quotes! Who cares what critics think, after all, if we know their true motivation? Critic need a hug?


"There is a land of pure delight,
Beyond the Jordan's flood,
Where saints, apparelled all in white.
Fling Back the critic's mud.

And as he legs it through the skies,
His pelt a sable hue,
He sorrows sore to recognize
The missles that he threw."

Devil's Dictionary FTW!

[Deathstyk85]

thegreateski wrote...

kevinwastaken wrote...

Dwarfs belong in any fantasy game I think, except maybe Conan-esque tales.

Elves on the otherhand... why do we need a race of hippys? Are manly midgets not enough?

LOL i like that version better.

[EJ42]

I have a friend who tends to act like this over almost everything.

No matter what movie we go see, it's always, "That's just the same as every other movie."

I swear she would ride a roller coaster, and complain about the color of the paint.

[Ogre2010]

David Gaider wrote...

foolish_sagacity wrote...
I think there was a problem here of trying to pretend they were getting away from the source material of LoTR that let them fool themselves into believing they had.

I think you're under a mistaken impression. We never said we were "getting away" from anything. Our intention was to take the familiar archetypes and put our own spin on them. There are certainly worse things than being compared to LotR or any one of a number of other fantasy franchises... heck, Tycho at Penny Arcade even implied in his editorial today that we must have been inspired in part by Lois McMaster Bujold -- who I've never even read (though perhaps I should). Fantasy as a genre tends to draw from the same pool, so such comparisons are not really surprising... and at the end of the day we were not striving to be different just for the sake of being different. Some people prize that more than others, I suppose, but at the end of the day we are satisfied with taking a genre we love and doing it well.

Well...as good as it was, I could understand why some think that the "spin" was sometimes not obvious enough. For those who haven't researched enough variations of other views on age old fantasy races such as elves, dragons or dwarves to know that there is much of a difference. While the thought and storytelling in dragon age was wonderful, even I had thought, "Oh...limited to elves and dwarves AGAIN..." even before I decided to try it out.  I don't like to make prejudgements on games or movies, since thats not really fair to the creator, but as far as I've noticed if an archetype is used enough, spin off or not, there are going to be a "meh, I guess, I might try it, but it's probably just going to be another title just like..." attitude to fight against. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the game very much, but I as a customer and fan of bioware storytelling guess I was expecting more of a spin. Elves and dwarves in a mid-evilish setting, I've played before and both races had looks and histories that were similar enough to other reiterations (elves had pointed ears and peacefully worship nature. Dwarves were hairy, short, and lived underground) that it did sort of underwelm me as far as how the Dragon Age: Origins setting functioned.  I did like the take on the elves current situation however, usually. the elves are holding the "we're mightier than the rest" card but this time they are getting mud kicked in their faces. Nice.

Modifié par Ogre2010, 04 décembre 2009 - 04:55 .

[ejikvkaske]

I don't think that DA:O is very Tolkienesque. Is does share Tolkien's major themes - good vs. evil, good races vs. evil races, a small party of heroes vs. evil. Then again, what fantasy doesn't?



I fell DA:O universe is closer to DnD then Tolkien. For example, the elves are taken right out of DnD (except for the slavery part). I do realize that DnD is based on Tolkien in a lot of ways. At the same time I don't feel like DA:O is drawn directly from Tolkien. For instance, the abundance and complexity magic is hardly consistent with any of his works.



Having said that, I don't understand why DA:O is being marketed as a "dark fantasy". To me it's more or less generic high fantasy. Dark fantasy novels have usually much much darker plots and characters. Take for example The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

[KalosCast]

ejikvkaske wrote...
Having said that, I don't understand why DA:O is being marketed as a "dark fantasy". To me it's more or less generic high fantasy. Dark fantasy novels have usually much much darker plots and characters. Take for example The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

It's on the lighter side of dark fantasy, the easiest way I can think of to describe it is that it's a heroic fantasy story that's taking place in a dark fantasy setting.

I'd be willing to say that the constant bill of "dark fantasy" came from a marketing team in EA's dark citadel than Bioware's main idea behind the writing.

Modifié par KalosCast, 04 décembre 2009 - 06:25 .

[Gecon]

Ghandorian wrote...
yes I was trying to offer a real example of where a game company regretted being different. They turned around and bought the rights to make a LOTR mmo. They had publicly stated that creating a totally new IP on your own could limit interest. At least from their experience this was true.

I dont think thats that simple. It depends upon quality. If you're creating a new IP, you have a lot of work to create it in the first place, then to make it publically known, then to make the game itself popular.

WoW is based on a quite new IP and it worked. Much better than the "WoW-Killer" LotRO.

[KalosCast]

Gecon wrote...
WoW is based on a quite new IP and it worked. Much better than the "WoW-Killer" LotRO.

When WoW came out, the original Warcraft game was probably older than half the people who bought it. More people's knowledge of LotR, I'd be willing to bet, stems more from Peter Jackson than it does from Tolkein.

[Ogre2010]

Good point, KalosCast. Elves, Dwarves and Orcs have been recyled and retold so many times over so many years that no one (no one normal, anyway) really wonders or cares what version belongs to who and who came up with what first, but a the same time these races have become canon for the fantasy setting, staying the same while being reflected slightly different with each retelling.

[Wolfva2]

Aesir Rising wrote...

Tolkien drew from prior sources, including Finnish epics. He didn't work in a vacuum. That said, I reject the notion that you have to be different or new to be better. In fact, I would have enjoyed DA:O more if it's elves and dwarves were more Tolkien-esque (or more Finnish perhaps).

Before Tolkien, elves were also known as goblins, kobolds, bugbears and sprites.  They were mischeivous spirits who, depending on the myth, would steal children, spoil  milk, ruin crops, etc and needed to be placated to prevent harm.  After Tolkien they were noble, woods loving people who fought evil.  Tolkien changed the way people saw Elves, creating a new mythos for them.  To a lesser degree, he did the same for Dwarves as well. 

People keep talking as if Bioware created the world of Dragon Age.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gaider create the world in a series of books before Bioware even started making the game?  

[Aquarion]

David Gaider wrote...

Tycho at Penny Arcade even implied in his editorial today that we must have been inspired in part by Lois McMaster Bujold -- who I've never even read (though perhaps I should).

Yup, you should. The fantasy series they wrote has similar concepts of tainting, and is good in and of itself. I really love the scifi series too, but it's the fantasy that I see the most parallels with DAO in. Shocking, yes.

As far as "LOTR-like" and "Not LOTR", I'm going to call shenanigans. LOTR is a story about being tainted by evil, about huge epic battles against dark epic foes. While the elves in the story are distant (their race is in the process of departing this world, they are no longer a part of it), and the dwarves are stoic and earthy, Tolkien wrote reems of lore to make them that way.

All the comparisons here seem to be more to some imaginary universe which takes Tolkien's take on the archtypes and pastes them in with no real thought (and there are thousands of these).

Dragon Age takes similar archtypes, but creates the background lore and twists them in a new direction.

Straight D&D, to give an example of the other side, took its archtypes wholesale from popular fantasy - mostly the imaginary universes referred to earlier - and pasted them into a stats system. Planescape took the road less travelled, and built it all from scratch.

(Warcraft, to sideline a bit, started off as a "My lore is pasted on yay", developed its own style around WC3, and then turned it into a reworked-archtype fantasy universe, albeit one built under a heavily tolkienesque influence - over WoW. I quite like a lot of the WoW lore)

And all of this means nothing, really, without a good story to put in the world, and a good story can overcome a massively generic universe (Baldurs Gate, for example), whereas a good universe can give a good story a huge level of depth (DAO, Planescape).

[FedericoV]

I think that originality is really overvalued when we talk of literature and especially when we talk about fantasy. I'm an avid fantasy reader and I know that there is not much left to explore in the genre. In terms of plot, story and archetypes the genre is established.



The difference between books, games and films are about the style, the storytelling, world building, and so on.



For example, GRRM's Song of Ice & Fire would have not seem so fresh if the plot have been told in a traditional way and not in first person "point of view" chapter with different protagonists who are in conflict between them from time to time.



Personally I judge fantasy franchises on storytelling and world building more than looking at innovation or originality for themselves. I do not love Terry Brooks's Shannara but not because of his blatant plaguarism but becase he lacks in storytelling and world building (imho).



DA:O's setting is not so revolutionary or innovative but it's a setting crafted with taste, sense and intelligence. There are many known archetypes but they are used with style and in a distinct way. And it makes for great storytelling. I could not ask more.



Moreover, Ferelden is the starting point of a journey. Ferelden between the various nations of Thedas looks like the most traditional in terms of fantasy world building. Bioware has decided not to overflow players with information about the setting and it's a good choice. When we will explore Orlais, the Tevinter Imperium, Nevarra or the lands of the Qunari we will learn about the iunique aspect of the game and we will see that Thedas it's not only about elves, humans and dwarves fighting the darkspawn (infact, I'm waiting the PnP RPG since I hope that it will contain a lot of lore).

[Memengwa]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Aesir Rising wrote...

Tolkien drew from prior sources, including Finnish epics. He didn't work in a vacuum. That said, I reject the notion that you have to be different or new to be better. In fact, I would have enjoyed DA:O more if it's elves and dwarves were more Tolkien-esque (or more Finnish perhaps).

Before Tolkien, elves were also known as goblins, kobolds, bugbears and sprites.  They were mischeivous spirits who, depending on the myth, would steal children, spoil  milk, ruin crops, etc and needed to be placated to prevent harm.  After Tolkien they were noble, woods loving people who fought evil.  Tolkien changed the way people saw Elves, creating a new mythos for them.  To a lesser degree, he did the same for Dwarves as well. 

People keep talking as if Bioware created the world of Dragon Age.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gaider create the world in a series of books before Bioware even started making the game?  

1) about the elves.
It depends on what mythology. In Norse (viking) mythology, elves were nothing like what you describe. Tolkien actually made his elves somewhat similar to those.

2) Gaider didn't write the books first. Also, Gaider works for BioWare as one of their writers (since 1999), and worked as lead writer/designer for DAO. The game world came to existence long before the novels. Although there's so much lore, that I'm sure it's enough for even more novels.

[aphelion002]

Aquarion wrote...
As far as "LOTR-like" and "Not LOTR", I'm going to call shenanigans. LOTR is a story about being tainted by evil, about huge epic battles against dark epic foes. While the elves in the story are distant (their race is in the process of departing this world, they are no longer a part of it), and the dwarves are stoic and earthy, Tolkien wrote reems of lore to make them that way. 

All the comparisons here seem to be more to some imaginary universe which takes Tolkien's take on the archtypes and pastes them in with no real thought (and there are thousands of these).

Exactly what I've been trying to say. A lot of people whine about "copying Tolkien" when they clearly only know Peter Jackson, and haven't even touched one of Tolkien's books. As far as I'm concerned Dragon Age is amazing but goes in a different direction from Tolkien. Calling something "Tolkienesque" is very very high praise IMO, and many writers try consciously to copy him and fail miserably. I really WISH it were so easy to just "copy" him.

[exorzist]

Great input everybody. Thank you all and especially Mr Gaider for showing up a second time regarding our articles ... *bows*

[Aesir Rising]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Aesir Rising wrote...

Tolkien drew from prior sources, including Finnish epics. He didn't work in a vacuum. That said, I reject the notion that you have to be different or new to be better. In fact, I would have enjoyed DA:O more if it's elves and dwarves were more Tolkien-esque (or more Finnish perhaps).

Before Tolkien, elves were also known as goblins, kobolds, bugbears and sprites.  They were mischeivous spirits who, depending on the myth, would steal children, spoil  milk, ruin crops, etc and needed to be placated to prevent harm.  After Tolkien they were noble, woods loving people who fought evil.  Tolkien changed the way people saw Elves, creating a new mythos for them.  To a lesser degree, he did the same for Dwarves as well. 

People keep talking as if Bioware created the world of Dragon Age.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gaider create the world in a series of books before Bioware even started making the game?  

Shakespeare is specifically blamed by Tolkien in his Letters (iirc) for popularizing the modernistic view of elves as mischievous spirits as you describe.  Tolkien's elves draw from much earlier (Germanic, Norse) mythos.  Therefore, it would be more correct to say that Tolkien re-popularized the original concepts of elves (and dwarves), reverting some (in his own estimation) harm done by Shakespeare and later authors.  Over-generalizing, elves started out as powerful, divine spirits.  The became short, flighty, mischievious creatures inhabiting woods and causing chaos.  Tolkien ditched that in favor of the original concepts from Old Norse mythos and Finnish oral epic traditions.

To your question, when DA was first appearing on the Bioware forums/announcements so many years ago, it was being touted as an original IP.  I don't know of the Gaider you refer to, so I don't know if Bioware purchased rights to a pre-existing IP to generate DA.  [Edit: I see a Gaider posting in this topic, but I still don't know the answer to the question.] If they did, it would appear misleading, if not completely falsified, to have indicated that DA was an original IP they wanted to develop (in contrast to prior games that were tied to pre-existing D&D rulesets and campaign settings).

[Edited to add: In getting side-tracked a bit on elf-related lore, I forgot to mention why I posted as I did.  I do wish DA portrayed elves and dwarves in a more Tolkien-esque light, because the DA elves remind more of Dobbie the House Elf from Harry Potter books, than a powerful Old Norse spirit that is at least partly analogous to a Christian angel on Earth.]

Modifié par Aesir Rising, 04 décembre 2009 - 03:11 .

[BADTURNIP]

I think what people are missing is this



Grey Wardens ???? you mean The Nights Watch from George RR Martins epic fanatasy series A Song Of Ice and Fire.



The Nights Watch are forgotten about because The Others havent been sighted or threatened Westros for a hundred years. Their force dwindle on The Wall and become almost nonexistent.



This is the same concept Bioware have used for the Grey Wardens. The population of Fereldan believe them redundant like The Nights Watch, because there had been no recent threat.



Now A Song Of Ice and Fire is a awesome series and I would recommend it to everyone here, but Bioware have used the concept of a ancient guardian of people and applied in brilliantly to a new setting. Being original is very hard these days but, as a previous poster said, reapplying a old concept to a new one is genius and deservers a high amount of praise

[Niten Ryu]

Bioware was smart when they designed Dragon Age to be generic fantasy. It sells well and players, no matter if they know it or not, get that familar feeling that they've experienced this before. Torment, one of my all time fav CRPG were set in the one of my all time fav imaginary worlds. Too bad for me and the designers, that most of the players found to be it way too alien and bizarre.

[David Gaider]

Niten Ryu wrote...
Bioware was smart when they designed Dragon Age to be generic fantasy. It sells well and players, no matter if they know it or not, get that familar feeling that they've experienced this before. Torment, one of my all time fav CRPG were set in the one of my all time fav imaginary worlds. Too bad for me and the designers, that most of the players found to be it way too alien and bizarre.

There's a segment of fans who have played everything, read everything, done everything... so when something comes down the pipe that even vaguely resembles something they've seen before, they're immediately bored with it. A jaded outlook, perhaps, but perhaps an understandable one if you're an avid fan of any genre. Thing is, making something that is different enough to peak the interest of those fans immediately risks being off-putting to anyone else -- and while those fans tend to be vocal, they're sadly don't number as many as some of them believe.

I also suspect sometimes that many of them don't know what they want, and that if you tried to give them what they're asking for they wouldn't, in fact, like it. That's a generalization, however -- certainly there is room for variation even in the traditional fantasy mold, and your estimation of how uniquely we applied the archtypes will no doubt vary to how exposed you've been to them.

[Memengwa]

Gah... please just stop...

Me and my friends were few years ago writing about a world (we were planning to make a NWN2 PW).
Here's some of the lore:

Mundus and Umbra
Beneath the surface of all things exists a magical realm, called Umbra (Latin: "shadow, shade"). Umbra is a magical spirit world, a shadow or reflection of the real world.The real world, which is mundane in comparison, is called Mundus (Latin: "world"), which in turn is a reflection of Umbra. Umbra exists beyond, but not outside of Mundus. It is not another plane of existence - it is another form of reallity, hidden from the mortal view, but still a part of the world. Umbra is inhabited by various supernatural beings and metaphysical spirits called fata (Latin "fatum": fate, destiny, doom, lot, weird; "for : fari : fatus :" [deponent] say, speak, talk about; Italian: "fata": fey).

There is a boundary between Mundus and Umbra, keeping them more or less separated from each other. This keeps the mortals from seeing the Umbra alltogether. The Fata on the other hand, can see into the mortal realm, but for them it seems to be incorporeal or ethereal in nature, showing some of its shapes in an abstracted way. The width of the boundary differs from place to place, becoming thin enough in some places for both realities to coexist (i.e. Aeistraum Woods). It is possible to "shift" between the two realities, and at this time it is only the fata who know how to do that. Being in the other reality is dangerous to both sides. A fata that is present in Munuds, can only stay for so long before becoming a mortal creature. Because Mundus feeds on their magic. On the other hand, a mortal creature can die in Umbra, since Umbra feeds on their life. Only places, where the boundary between the two realities are thin, are safe.

Magic
Magic is the natural state of Umbra, as life is the natural state of Mundus. If you ask, where magic comes from, you can as likely ask where life comes from. They just are. The Inhabitants of Mundus, see division between Arcane and Divine magic, and while this division is academic to most, to the spellcasters in Mundus it defines how they see reality. But in truth, the Arcane and Divine are only facets of the totality of Magic.

The Arcane Spellcasters have found a way to forcefully cut themselves into Umbra through the boundary, and then tap into magic to create a spell. After which the spellcaster lets go, and the tear in the boundary regenerates and closes. Wizards do this through study and knowledge, while Sorcerers and Bards do this through intiution and experimentation. The Warlocks instead invoke powerful magic through nothing more than an effort of will, without even using spells.

The Divine Spellcasters don't have to force their way into Umbra. Instead, they are granted magical powers by the fata. While Clerics, Druids and Rangers are granted powers by showing devotion to one specific (more powerful) fata and following it's rules, the Spirit Shamans are granted their powers by groups of lesser fata.

Elves
Among the Aeise one can find the pure-blood elves. These elves rarely venture outside the forest and are more often regarded as creatures of myth than actual. The pureblood elves are immortal; ageless. Legend lore says that before the Empire ever became, however, some of these Aeise elves ventured out and bonded with humans, thus creating the wandering elves that are more commonly known in the Empire. The wanderers who live long, but are not immortal. The wanderers who never sleep, and are almost excluded from the Aeistraum woods, as if their bastard blood is not welcome. The bastards have their own bastards as well, who are known as the half elves (and these are even less welcome in the Aeistraum woods).

Corruption
In the as-of-yet-unnamed world in which the Empire resides, there is a fundamental difference with our world (aside from magic, obviously): Corruption is a very real thing. In the shortest of descriptions, you could say evil acts slowly change the person/creature committing them.

A simple thief, or a corrupt bureaucrat would not notice much of this change. Perhaps they’d get a bit paler, at most, nothing anyone would notice. However, if we take a master Assassin, whom has murdered dozens of good people simply for some gold, he’ll be affected by the Corruption. As he increases in skill, the Corruption spreads through him, granting him more and more powers, making him less and less human. This only goes so far, especially because the Corruption is domain of Demons and Devils, whom will approach such a menace to all that is good.

Let us call the “Demons and Devils” Daimons, so we can talk about them more easily. These creatures will offer more power from the Corruption to the person. In exchange, the person will become part of the Corruption, feeding it, but also damning their souls.

The Ninth Kingdom
The King of the Ninth Kingdom was an evil king who prepared his subjects for war a long time ago, and was ruthless in doing so. This man was feared by his subjects as well as his equals (though he never thought he had his equals) and it was as such that he was noticed by the demons, perhaps even by Novenach himself, who then came to the King and made a contract with him. What the contract said is uncertain, but after it was signed by the greedy King, the kingdom slowly slid into corruption and taint. The land became haunted with demons and the dead as if the fabric between hell and the lands had been worn thin. The King became immortal, or so the tales go. It is said that it is the same King of the Ninth Kingdom that the Empire fights to this day.

Begining of Corruption
The fata are immortal (but not living beings). So, when they come to Mundus - Mundus eats their magic, but gives them life and they become unmagical mortal beings. Theoretically, a mortal person should be able to do the opposit, but the little problem there is the little fact that you loose your life to gain magic. So, no mortal has evern managed to become immortal. This, though, doesn't mean that they haven't tried through centuries. Be magical and never die? Who wouldn't want that?

There is one historically important person who did try this, and failed incredibly miserably. He got fooled by the diamos that they would help him to become one of them, which would help him and his kingdom to stay free and not become subdued by the "evil" Empire. But then you have the problem of staying immortal in Mundus, which nobody managed to do either. So, the greatest mages of the 9th kingdom did a magical ceremony (kind-of like the circle-magic, but we wan't call it that) together with few daimons. But during that ceremony something went terribly wrong. With their magic, they tried to break the rules/laws of the universe, and do something that is not possible to happen, that should never be allowed - create an immortal that should be able to survive in Mundus. And as the result they created something else than unliving - they created undeath. The king became an archlich, a powerful undead being. A magical being that can live in Mundus and that in theory cannot die. (And thus, this is the truth that the Empire is still fighting the same king).

But even the fata have to follow the laws of the universe. They are there not for fun, but to keep things in balance. With their incredible arrogance, the daimons broke rules that should not be possible to be broken, and through creating something that shouldn't exist - they created something else as well - Corruption. And thus also, necromancy, which was study of magic of life/death, became also study of magic of undeath. A magical school favored by the citizens of the 9th kingdom, which becomes more and more Corrupted.

You can find our tries here: http://www.ashleydejong.com/TLE/

*gasp* I can see so many similarities with DAO!!!
*whine* BioWare has stolen our ideas from us!! (j/k)

[purplesunset]

David Gaider wrote...

Niten Ryu wrote...
Bioware was smart when they designed Dragon Age to be generic fantasy. It sells well and players, no matter if they know it or not, get that familar feeling that they've experienced this before. Torment, one of my all time fav CRPG were set in the one of my all time fav imaginary worlds. Too bad for me and the designers, that most of the players found to be it way too alien and bizarre.

There's a segment of fans who have played everything, read everything, done everything... so when something comes down the pipe that even vaguely resembles something they've seen before, they're immediately bored with it. A jaded outlook, perhaps, but perhaps an understandable one if you're an avid fan of any genre. Thing is, making something that is different enough to peak the interest of those fans immediately risks being off-putting to anyone else -- and while those fans tend to be vocal, they're sadly don't number as many as some of them believe.

I also suspect sometimes that many of them don't know what they want, and that if you tried to give them what they're asking for they wouldn't, in fact, like it. That's a generalization, however -- certainly there is room for variation even in the traditional fantasy mold, and your estimation of how uniquely we applied the archtypes will no doubt vary to how exposed you've been to them.

I saw what you did there, Mr. Gaider.    Nice save.

Until I read your last sentence, your post was essentially saying..."well, we could be more creative,  like those  jaded but vocal fans want us to be, but we can't be bothered to because it wouldn't sell as well." If that isn't proof that big companies hate creativity (because of the financial risk involved), then my name isn't Conspiracy Q Theorist.

Modifié par purplesunset, 04 décembre 2009 - 05:14 .

[Ogre2010]

For the most part I agree, but I still wish there was a more custom spin on the setting's races. Elves and Dwarves verses a hord of ugly violent huminods (I wont say Orcs and Goblins because they are not...but the Darkspawn image comes pretty close in my opinion) and a dragons is just something that sticks a little to much to the predictable for me. I liked the fact that werewolves, my favorite mythical/fantasy race made it in there, because I don't see nearly enough of them as a storytelling element in a videogame (or any fantasy plot) plot with that amount of depth and creativity. In fact, I hope Bioware pushes them a little more (history, culture, personalties and way of life) as a race in DAO2 (if there is one). Expanding their fantasy with other races, monsters and animals that have exsisted in myth and fantasy for forever but aren't as popular as elves and dwarves, may just be what is needed to throw off that "it's another LOTR" attitude from the more skeptical gamers. Thus, keeping the popluar image of fantasy while still making a more unique flavor that Bioware can enarguablely reinforce the claim that it is 100% Bioware's creativity that made it the success it was.

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

Thing is, making something that is different enough to peak the interest of those fans

Pique.