140 réponses à ce sujet

[akula51]

Tactic works very, very well. As the SE, I was pretty busy. Glad I had 2 weps, I certainly used plenty of ammo...lol **** was blowing up everywhere.

[eldrjth]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Most players run for the area just north of the Landing pad and stand around the ammo box there. This is one of the weakest defensive positions on the map as it has too many enemy spawns and areas of access surrounding it. The ladder up is a paticular problem, and any enemies spanwing on the Launding pad itself have a clear shot at anyone sticking their heads up.

The best place to hold is the inside area called 'Interior'. It's the section at the North West of the map inside the building with the 2 L shaped desks opposite each other. This area is such a strong defensive position as enemies do not spawn behind it, letting you funnel enemies into a crossfire from two points of entry, and it gives you accesss to 3 very easily reachable ammo crates.

disagree. the top location is the best location to fight geth from as no enemies attack from the rear and the main force is held up by a single decoy. the engineer can also be a large contributor to damage from here as he can cast SD on a cluster of units around the decoy and has view into the desk area. the 2 flanks spawn certain types of enemies that can be countered easily. on the left side you need to be watchful of rocket troopers and on the right side primes/pyros. if your engineer is doing his work correctly no units will climb the ladder . and you can shoot enemies that go that route with ease without fear of return fire - make use of the ledge to hull down shots from primes. you have a convenient back area to retreat from if you do get overwhelmed with primes that approach on the right side which is not likely. the back retreat area is a very strong defensive position if your engineer also falls backs back here. you can hold up the entire force and clear out the remaining units even if 2 players die (unlikely). its the strongest defensive position on the map actually.

Modifié par eldrjth, 05 avril 2012 - 05:34 .

[astheoceansblue]

eldrjth wrote...
 its the strongest defensive position on the map actually.

It's just objectively not, imo. 

Have you at least tried this set-up?

[eldrjth]

prob played a lot more on FB:W than you, with a lot more credits earned actually.

Ive seen frequent squad wipes using the downstairs area. the thing is, when I play salarian infil on the top (which is most of the time) I can carry the team and be the main damage dealer, even with 2 nubs on the team. if the same 2 nubs are at the bottom location I have a tougher time clearing up the force; theres only the desk area to use as cover and it has been swarmed at that point and when one person dies there its like a stack of cards. reviving is also a lot more easier on top than it is crouched behind a desk thats being fired upon. I play preferably engineer when using the desk location since an infil will lose a lot of their dmg potential from all the sh*t happening.

Modifié par eldrjth, 05 avril 2012 - 05:59 .

[MartialArtsSurfer]

I've found that it's MORE FUN having a high DPS player or 2 (I prefer infiltrator w/ high level widow or black widow) taking cover by the doorway to the Launchroom (instead of outside by the the outside corner) because it's
a great way to output DPS to prevent the players in the L-desks from getting flanked/swarmed (it's your job to especially target the mobs trying to flank)
&
gives great field of fire onto both groups of mobs coming down from the landing zone as well as from the interior stairway/ammo dump in the corner.

Try that Eldrjth & ditch your engineer since it sounds like you have more fun as an infiltrator ...

completion rates using the bottom room strategy having such a setup is much higher than Ladder & don't even need decoy (though it helps) since a good Infiltrator w/ high level Widow/Black Widow protects & prevents the players in the L-desks doing the grab-kills from being swarmed

Modifié par MartialArtsSurfer, 05 avril 2012 - 06:26 .

[astheoceansblue]

eldrjth wrote...

prob played a lot more on FB:W than you, with a lot more credits earned actually.

Ive seen frequent squad wipes using the downstairs area. the thing is, when I play salarian infil on the top (which is most of the time) I can carry the team and be the main damage dealer, even with 2 nubs on the team. if the same 2 nubs are at the bottom location I have a tougher time clearing up the force; theres only the desk area to use as cover and it has been swarmed at that point and when one person dies there its like a stack of cards. reviving is also a lot more easier on top than it is crouched behind a desk thats being fired upon. I play preferably engineer when using the desk location since an infil will lose a lot of their dmg potential from all the sh*t happening.

Tbh, all I see here is someone bragging about being the best and not paying attention to objective qualities of a map. 

The TOP area IS more exposed, which makes it a less well fortified spot, and one that's much more difficult to defend. Good for you you can carry the team if need be, but out of the 12 runs  made today on GOld using this area, only two faield due to leavers.

I've enver seen people drop inside as freuqntly as they do at the top.

PS: this is about OBJECTIVE qulaities of a map providing best cover. Use the decoy right in the inside area and there is no way you can fail unless one of your team makes a stupid mistake.

Up top, there are far too many eareas explosed and it's a much harder area to defend.

Again, maybe that's what you want: more challenge (you might just be too good  at  this game), but the FACTS show the top area is simply too explosed to be as effective using this tactic.

Show me a video of you clearing GOLD n 18 minutes (our record) using just the top area you descdribe (movement for objectives allowed), and we'll talk some more.

[PseudoticA]

astheoceansblue wrote...

PseudoticA wrote...

I'm infiltrator and i find hunters offensive

Salarian Infiltrator -> Energy Drain -> Headshot.

Goaliebot wrote...

An excellent write-up, OP! Kudos.

 

Thanks very much! I hope anyone having difficulty with gold can use this as an example of how to set up team builds to exploit the strength of certain positions and the weakness of certain enemies.

There are MANY other points on other maps that thi tactic is viable, this is simply the most commonly known one and possibly the esiest.

Yeah, i still lack the salarian infiltrator.. 

[aimlessgun]

Vs. Geth the top area works 'ok' because they don't tend to spawn many on the landing pad. The bottom is still easier (or more boring, depending on how you look at it). At the top you at least need a modicum of situational awareness: on the bottom everything comes from essentially one direction and you can turn off your brain.

Vs. Cerberus the bottom is infinitely superior, because when youre at top they smoke the main advance and spawn tons of dangerous stuff on the landing pad. Phantoms will on rare occasions backdoor you on the bottom, but it's easy to deal with a lone phantom back there.

Vs Reapers I like the top a lot better, more room to kite Banshees around and more time to shoot them up as they come at you.

I also hear about grab opportunities on the bottom...in my experience this strategy works so well that 4 people who aren't asleep simply kill the incoming enemies so fast nothing ever gets into grab position. 

Modifié par aimlessgun, 05 avril 2012 - 06:25 .

[wilzoon]

eldrjth wrote...

prob played a lot more on FB:W than you, with a lot more credits earned actually.

Ive seen frequent squad wipes using the downstairs area. the thing is, when I play salarian infil on the top (which is most of the time) I can carry the team and be the main damage dealer, even with 2 nubs on the team. if the same 2 nubs are at the bottom location I have a tougher time clearing up the force; theres only the desk area to use as cover and it has been swarmed at that point and when one person dies there its like a stack of cards. reviving is also a lot more easier on top than it is crouched behind a desk thats being fired upon. I play preferably engineer when using the desk location since an infil will lose a lot of their dmg potential from all the sh*t happening.

Either your teammates suck so bad or you are just unlucky, I have completed hundreds of gold run using OP's tactic with very little effort.

I agree with some about not posting it on the forum though 

Modifié par wilzoon, 05 avril 2012 - 06:20 .

[sy7ar]

 Ah, nice refresh, anything new to this? I was hoping it's more about decoy. 

[CaspianRoach]

I find this decoy position more useful
 

The red circle is my decoy position. As you can see it protects from geth from three sides (as shown with black lines) while your decoy position does not protect from the Geth coming from the outside stairs (and there's a lot of them coming from there)

[wilzoon]

CaspianRoach wrote...

I find this decoy position more useful
 

The red circle is my decoy position. As you can see it protects from geth from three sides (as shown with black lines) while your decoy position does not protect from the Geth coming from the outside stairs (and there's a lot of them coming from there)

Agree, thats exactly where I put it

[eldrjth]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Tbh, all I see here is someone bragging about being the best and not paying attention to objective qualities of a map. 

The TOP area IS more exposed, which makes it a less well fortified spot, and one that's much more difficult to defend. Good for you you can carry the team if need be, but out of the 12 runs  made today on GOld using this area, only two faield due to leavers.

I've enver seen people drop inside as freuqntly as they do at the top.

PS: this is about OBJECTIVE qulaities of a map providing best cover. Use the decoy right in the inside area and there is no way you can fail unless one of your team makes a stupid mistake.

Up top, there are far too many eareas explosed and it's a much harder area to defend.

Again, maybe that's what you want: more challenge (you might just be too good  at  this game), but the FACTS show the top area is simply too explosed to be as effective using this tactic.

Show me a video of you clearing GOLD n 18 minutes (our record) using just the top area you descdribe (movement for objectives allowed), and we'll talk some more.

im not bragging, just responding to your previous post which questions maybe a lack of xp using your tactic or maybe of the map. ive cleared FB:W in 18mins in pub match, top scoring as an engineer over infiltrators and I usually beat engineers by atleast 50k xp. I also never use consumables and rarely ever use rockets. the objective qualities of the map and enemy tbh is made for the top location which offers a number of benefits the bottom location doesnt, and I dont feel like constantly repeating myself, but: range, hull-down, LoS, a retreat area and close proximity to most objectives. you have more time, essentially, to deal with threats rather than being pinned behind the desk unable to return fire. 

one of the things the top location has that the bottom lacks completely, is fun factor. there is competition to be the top point-scorer between snipers. it makes it much more interesting and fun when you can check out your score between rounds. unlike the bottom area where players closer to the exit have more vantage points thus a distinct adv of the more enclosed guys.

[Capt.Mytre]

Used this strat, first time we tried it worked, first time I've cleared gold. Then we tried 3 man, once again, aced. Two engineers with decoys work really well, and one QI built for long tactical cloaking for objectives and sabotage because this build is made for geth.

Only issue is with a low grade weapon (widow I) you can run out of ammo rather fast unless you calculate each shot. Once there is a break in between a wave, I suggest getting ammo from the back ammo crate.

[astheoceansblue]

The ENTIRE point is to drag those enemies across the front of the bottom desk so the two players there can make he dozens of available instant grab kills that are given. WIth the decoy so far over, it doesn't matter how fast you shoot, the latter stages will have Geth swarming in faster than you can kill. This is where the grabs count a good deal.

You don't need protection from the Geth on the stairs. For a start they can't hit the back desk from there, and while everything inside is being drawn to the decoy, you can pick them off easily with your sniper.

Try it if you haven't.

Also:


Shows all the possible ways Geth can get around to the top position.
1. Back Stairs
2. Stairs near ladder rounding up onto ramp leading to your decoy
3, Stairs at left of ramp given them access to take positions here and long shot you
4. The ladder under the decoy
5. The possibility to creep around back where the blue cross is showing.

I'm not saying it can't be done, nor am I saying that it's not more fun, but it's certainly isn't the best defesnive position on the map from an objective point of view.

eldrjth wrote...
one of the things the top location has that the bottom lacks completely, is fun factor. there is competition to be the top point-scorer between snipers. it makes it much more interesting and fun when you can check out your score between rounds. unlike the bottom area where players closer to the exit have more vantage points thus a distinct adv of the more enclosed guys.

this set up ios for people to try out Gold with and for those who NEED an easy farm. My argument is that it's MUCH easier to farm thatn the top area due to the protection of the walls and only TWO possible entry points for enemeis if the decoy is constantly spammed. I've played countless matches here, and the only time if failed was when people left (twice, the rest were full clears).

You also do not have to sit at the back waiting, you can move within the confines of the room just as long as you when you need cover you use it. I rarely see anyone drop in there, and we play unbound (ie: switch and move when we feel like it).

eldrjth wrote...
 the objective qualities of the map and enemy tbh is made for the top location which offers a number of benefits the bottom location doesnt, and I dont feel like constantly repeating myself, but: range, hull-down, LoS, a retreat area and close proximity to most objectives. you have more time, essentially, to deal with threats rather than being pinned behind the desk unable to return fire. 

 

Again, imo, you're mistaken.

LoS is perfect in the lopwer area, they funnel in so fast and your team can move into the perfect V shape to see directly up the outside stairs and directly into the hallways holding the bottom stairs. Try it somtimes and leave the group as an infiltrator to look at the back of the mobs spwning, and you'll notice they're spawning so close to the two stair cases that seconds after they spawn they're directly in your line of sight. All four of your players can get that bead with full protection.

There's an easy retreat out the back, too, but the thing is I've NEVER seen it swarm so badly in there that we needed to use it.

No one is ever "pinned to a desk unable top fire", and you're just as far from the objectives we're just as far from.

The basic things that separate top and bottom:

Top:
More to think of, more netry points for enemeies, more of a challenge, more fun(?)
Bottom:
Less spanw points, both spawn points so close to killzone the enemies move in faster, better cover, faster kills as all enemies funnel to the same spot with none stopping to take ranged shots on exposed players from further away).

Thje top might be more enjoyable, but the bottom is DEFINITELY more efficient a spot for a faster farm.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 05 avril 2012 - 07:10 .

[CaspianRoach]

Why grab if you can chain biotic explosions or just headshot them while they're distracted? I don't find grabbing an especially reliable tactic. What do you do with primes then?

[eldrjth]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Shows all the possible ways Geth can get around to the top position.
1. Back Stairs 
2. Stairs near ladder rounding up onto ramp leading to your decoy NO
3, Stairs at left of ramp given them access to take positions here and long shot you
4. The ladder under the decoy  NO
5. The possibility to creep around back where the blue cross is showing. NO

I'm not saying it can't be done, nor am I saying that it's not more fun, but it's certainly isn't the best defesnive position on the map from an objective point of view.

youre not 100% familiar with the strat I use.

Modifié par eldrjth, 05 avril 2012 - 07:03 .

[astheoceansblue]

CaspianRoach wrote...

Why grab if you can chain biotic explosions or just headshot them while they're distracted? I don't find grabbing an especially reliable tactic. What do you do with primes then?

Grabs give you an instant kill when an enemy gets too close, and you're invulnerable duing the animation. It's extremely handy in the latter stages when enemeies swarm.

[astheoceansblue]

eldrjth wrote...

youre not 100% familiar with the strat I use.

Where do your players stand?

[wilzoon]

astheoceansblue wrote...

CaspianRoach wrote...

Why grab if you can chain biotic explosions or just headshot them while they're distracted? I don't find grabbing an especially reliable tactic. What do you do with primes then?

Grabs give you an instant kill when an enemy gets too close, and you're invulnerable duing the animation. It's extremely handy in the latter stages when enemeies swarm.

I think what he means is that its much faster to kill the enemies with biotic explosion/headshots than wait them to come close so you can perform the grabbing

[astheoceansblue]

wilzoon wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

CaspianRoach wrote...

Why grab if you can chain biotic explosions or just headshot them while they're distracted? I don't find grabbing an especially reliable tactic. What do you do with primes then?

Grabs give you an instant kill when an enemy gets too close, and you're invulnerable duing the animation. It's extremely handy in the latter stages when enemeies swarm.

I think what he means is that its much faster to kill the enemies with biotic explosion/headshots than wait them to come close so you can perform the grabbing

Yes, of course he does, but when you have four primes moving in at once and a horde of pyros and hunters slyly moving in from the right hand side, it's impossilbe to clear them all at once unless you missle (which you want to save for the most part). The grabbing gallery acts as a very efficient way to take out any stagglers.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 05 avril 2012 - 07:13 .

[eldrjth]

sal eng at the bottom of ladder, everyone else on top. 2 guys use the front cover (which can also be used as side cover from attacks on the right) and a guy further back shooting between the two players using hull-down to avoid taking dmg (usually me and I take out all the rocket troopers too). check for rocket troopers to left during early stages of wave and during reload.

[UkGouki]

i play with the number 3 uk player jayuk71 and well we do this for a few games a day then set it on random random. as for decoy placement you can use 2 one at the door and one at the ops orriginal placement as long as 1 infiltrator is in the group to run objectives its simples.. btw the only map on gold i havent finished is benning.. which im hopefully gonna do sometime today for the acheivement

[astheoceansblue]

eldrjth wrote...

sal eng at the bottom of ladder, everyone else on top. 2 guys use the front cover (which can also be used as side cover from attacks on the right) and a guy further back shooting between the two players using hull-down to avoid taking dmg (usually me and I take out all the rocket troopers too). check for rocket troopers to left during early stages of wave and during reload.

X = decoy
x = player
e = enemy route

RIght, this sounds more fun, sure, but you've people too spread out to be as effective, and too many areas the enemy can come from.


                  e 
               x 
e  --X-x--          x      
               x
                   e

Is this right? If so you have three possbile place  the enemy can attack from.

The inside position allows EVERYONE to focus fire on the SINGLE spot that enemies will be drawn towards. And the back two players can move about to get a bead on the outside stairs very easily, using the back door and the very back of the lower desk for cover.

              x  x 
                      X                 e
                   x
                   x       e

It's a much more efficient kill zone.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 05 avril 2012 - 07:23 .

[wilzoon]

Its quite rare ( at least for me) to play with 2 salarian engies, normally 1 is enough, but 2 makes it a bit easier I suppose