345 réponses à ce sujet

[SoulDire]

I don't like the endings at all and I haven't heard any argument one way or the other that has changed my mind. I respect that someone who finds merit in the game as is has the right to find that merit and certainly has gotten something I didn't; closure, enjoyment or even satisfaction. That is great for that person and I wish them well. Now I want the same. I want one of the 16 promised endings that gives me closure. I want that satisfaction too. I will either get it or not, but it will not stop me from wanting it.

I will not engage in this we vs. them crap where you are either pro-end or anti-end or whatever. I am tired of it. I have made my concerns heard and made them loudly. The pro-enders have nothing to fear, any change or explanation will be downloadable, they have what they wanted and have no need of it. If the dlc is ending related and has the closure I am looking for I will be happy too.

If not, I will move on with my life and will give Bioware a very hard and long look as a company that I will do business with in the future. I have greatly enjoyed Bioware's games and hope to do so in the future, but I will remember this forever.

[Dridengx]

Heavvy Metall wrote...

I love how your signature says "Shepard deserves better fans" even though jenifer hale is dissapointed in the endings. 

Glad you love my sig. Jennifer Hale is just a voice actress nothing more. She isn't Shepard. You are. I am. Everyone is... if you roleplay

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

There are far more defences than that.  People's view on the ending is subjective.  To say it has plotholes, to say it breaks away from the major themes, all subjective.  Everything comes down to opinion.  The plotholes can be explained, the themes are there, and the implications of the endings vary. 

Explain the Normandy scene right now.

This is by the way the 10th time I've asked you this, overall.

[jds1bio]

The fact that the ending deals with themes of the series does not make ending great.

At the very beginning of the first Mass Effect, do we choose control, destroy, or synthesis?  No, we chose Spacer, Colonist, Earthborn. 

We also chose Sole Survivor, War Hero, Ruthless, not control, destroy, or synthesis.

The very first scene of the game, what was it about?  Was it about synthetics? organics? control? destruction? No, it was Anderson and Udina discussing whether someone would make a good enough candidate for the Spectres.  Who might that be?

That's right, it was Shepard.

At the end of the game, who emerges victorious and is the last character we see?

That's right, it was Shepard.

In the second Mass Effect game, did we begin by discussing synthetics, or organics, or control, or destruction?  Were any of those blown up in a fiery explosion, left for dead, and then rebuilt?  No.  But you know who was?  Shepard.

That's right, it was Shepard.

At the end of the game, who has to make that ridiculous leap back onto the Normandy, or die trying?

That's right, it was Shepard.

At the beginning of the third Mass Effect game, who is the only person who really knows what the hell is going on, and has any idea what to do about it?

That's right, it was Shepard.

At the end of the third Mass Effect game, who brings the galaxy's greatest races to bear against the Reapers, meeting them head on and showing every last one of them where they could stick that beam of theirs?

That's right, it was....wait, what?  WHO?  What kid?  Huh?  Wait why would they...I thought I would at least see Shepard one last time.

Why?  Because the story was ABOUT SHEPARD.  It doesn't matter if the ending was the greatest examination of synthetic and organic life ever (SPOILER: it wasn't), or the most creative way to force a reboot of the series, or a mastermind plot to drive DLC sales.

WHERE WAS SHEPARD?

[KingKhan03]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

There are far more defences than that.  People's view on the ending is subjective.  To say it has plotholes, to say it breaks away from the major themes, all subjective.  Everything comes down to opinion.  The plotholes can be explained, the themes are there, and the implications of the endings vary. 

Explain the Normandy scene right now.

This is by the way the 10th time I've asked you this, overall.

It's art.

[scrapmetals]

Dridengx wrote...

Heavvy Metall wrote...

I love how your signature says "Shepard deserves better fans" even though jenifer hale is dissapointed in the endings. 

Glad you love my sig. Jennifer Hale is just a voice actress nothing more. She isn't Shepard. You are. I am. Everyone is... if you roleplay

If everyone is then Jennifer Hale is as well.

[Provo_101]

Dridengx wrote...

Heavvy Metall wrote...

I love how your signature says "Shepard deserves better fans" even though jenifer hale is dissapointed in the endings. 

Glad you love my sig. Jennifer Hale is just a voice actress nothing more. She isn't Shepard. You are. I am. Everyone is... if you roleplay

So... Jennifer Hale is also Shepard then.

[TheMadBlimper]

2papercuts wrote...

written April 1

am i the only one that noticed this?

Judging from the other posts, you're one of a select few who noticed.

[Geneaux486]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ah dridengx, the very one who's making people who like the ending look bad that I was talking about.
Still not done eh?

Is your little friend Hench going to show up too? Oh wait delightful fun.

You are not in a position to criticize.  Your behavior in this thread alone is proof of that.

Is that so? Apparently observations on your nature count as "bad behaviour" now?
Understandable, the truth is always unpopular.

Yeah that's so.  I don't care about observations of behavior (and your observations of mine were incorrect anyway).  That's what I'm doing here, after all, so that would be hypocritical.  It's the fact that you jump down people's throats with little to no provocation, always assuming hostility.  Hell, I don't have a problem with the retake movement.  In fact, I hope you guys do wind up with something for all your efforts.

[free17]

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

And I've observed similar and worse behavior from people who hated the ending.  Doesn't mean I think everyone of that opinion is like that.

The difference is, the ending has only 3 defences.

"I liked it in spite of everything." -fine, whatever. But it's still objectively bad. You want to like it in spite of that? Go ahead.

"I made up my own ending!" -whether you admit it or not... this is not a good thing.

"You don't get it/it's over your head." -pseudo intellectualism really has no place here.

There are far more defences than that.  People's view on the ending is subjective.  To say it has plotholes, to say it breaks away from the major themes, all subjective.  Everything comes down to opinion.  The plotholes can be explained, the themes are there, and the implications of the endings vary. 

No, the existense of plot holes is not subjective. There are plot holes, many of them, in the ending of Mass Effect 3. Just because you headcanoned your way through them doesn't mean they're not there.

[Cyph3rX]

Dridengx wrote...

free17 wrote...

I think this makes six. Six people isn't going to convince me of anything.

I believe this is where the problem lies. People who don't like the ending such as this guy I quoted. Seem to feel people are somehow caring or pushing him to some notion of changing his opinion? This is simply not the case. No one cares if you 'get it' or not. it's your life, your opinion. Pro enders don't gain anything converting you.


In the last month I have yet to see these so called '6' pro enders try and convince anyone to their way of thinking. if anything, I mostly see them fighting for their opinions and getting into pointless arguements until names are being called like children.

Pro enders are trying to stop Retake from using charities as shields, insults to community members, trolling pro ender threads (which aren't even many to begin with), and ME fans (assuming both sides are fans) looking out for Bioware.

Retake wants something, we get it, they get it, everyone gets it. the problem is majority believe you don't deserve it based on the actions of some of your members. Which doesn't even matter to begin with, it's an opinion of some pro enders and you claimed it yourselves its only 6 right? you are the mighty 56k yet still feel the need to troll those 6 everytime you get? you can't better yourselves and ignore them?

Your beef is with Bioware for the ending right? why get caught up fighting with pro enders? stop wasting your time especially if there is only 6 of them.. yet they take so much of your mind you talk about them when they are not even in threads you are posting on. I've seen some baiting members not present lol. use all that emotion for your cause? Bioware said be constructive not disruptive. Attacking BSN or other fans isn't doing anything for you or your cause but tainting the name of Retake.

Pro enders have a reason to complain either it being they want peace, they want to not be called EA PR, Bioware employees in diguise, or to see normal threads on the front page. It doesn't mean they hate you, want to ruin your hopes and dreams of a different ending. They just want the drama and hate to stop?

The only people who should care are not even here most of the time. direct your criticism to Bioware not eachother. Preaching to the choir is only good for morale but staying strong for a month now proves you don't need it am I right?

Making 100's of threads complaining about the same thing for a whole month is dull and boring. don't you think? Bioware already told you several times they heard you, PAX is coming and claimed to make a statement about your request. Why attack other members? ignore them. What you want is greater than a few strangers online right?

TLDR: I totally don't provoke people in other threads. When a pro-ender makes a thread that's somewhat interesting and provides valid points, and has valuable discourse occuring, I must post in it to tell all anti-enders that their views are wrong and not provide any proof. These are my boards and you must all gtfo!

Please take your worthless trololo posts somewhere else, along with narf, taz, and that useless rooster avatar guy I keep forgetting the name of. Shepard does deserve better fans, not useless trolls.

[OgFux69]

False dichotomy everywhere.

If I disliked this ending then it means I wanted a sweet heartwarming ending where everybody lives? These are the only two possibilites?
If I disliked is because I found it too sad? Of course, nothing to do with major plotholes, lack of closure, and it being totally unrelated to the rest of the story.

Hell, the Reapers could have won, the Crucible not firing, end it with Shepard dead on the Citadel. Great ending anyway, very sad, but would bring closure and even some realism, some things just don't work out in the end.

[Heavvy Metall]

Dridengx wrote...

Heavvy Metall wrote...

I love how your signature says "Shepard deserves better fans" even though jenifer hale is dissapointed in the endings. 

Glad you love my sig. Jennifer Hale is just a voice actress nothing more. She isn't Shepard. You are. I am. Everyone is... if you roleplay

So I deserve better fans? 

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Yeah that's so.  I don't care about observations of behavior (and your observations of mine were incorrect anyway).  That's what I'm doing here, after all, so that would be hypocritical.  It's the fact that you jump down people's throats with little to no provocation, always assuming hostility.  Hell, I don't have a problem with the retake movement.  In fact, I hope you guys do wind up with something for all your efforts.

I speak with snark. Most people seem to be okay with this. If you take it personally... well.. don't?
I'm a person on the internet, I'm not going to eat you.

[webhead921]

aliengmr1 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

And I've observed similar and worse behavior from people who hated the ending.  Doesn't mean I think everyone of that opinion is like that.

The difference is, the ending has only 3 defences.

"I liked it in spite of everything." -fine, whatever. But it's still objectively bad. You want to like it in spite of that? Go ahead.

"I made up my own ending!" -whether you admit it or not... this is not a good thing.

"You don't get it/it's over your head." -pseudo intellectualism really has no place here.

There are far more defences than that.  People's view on the ending is subjective.  To say it has plotholes, to say it breaks away from the major themes, all subjective.  Everything comes down to opinion.  The plotholes can be explained, the themes are there, and the implications of the endings vary. 

With respect, I disagree. While some parts are subjective there are quite a few that aren't. Even the article the OP linked said as much.

Agreed.  I don't think there is any way you can objectively say that your squad suddenly appearing on the normandy/ joker running away made any sense.  That was objectively bad writing, and a major plothole.  Come on, even pro enders like myself should acknowledge this.

[2papercuts]

 couple things.

He seems to be under the impression he has listed are the only viable ones, or just missed fairly obvious themes and instead found less obvious ones like entropy.

Victory through sacrifice

A common theme throughout the game. He lists this, but forgets something. The catalyst makes you sacrifice yourself, its not a choice. The power of a sacrifice is a conscious being able to decide that its existence is less important than an idea . THERE IS NO POWER IN A SACRIFICE FORCED OPON YOU. Also, the ending makes it apparent that its not your sacrifice that makes the defeat of the reapers, its more of the catalyst allowing you to defeat them, again negating the significance of sacrifice. This theme, I feel, is almost made fun of by the ending.

Strength through unity

A huge theme throughout the game, hell what the entire series is based on. You unite a galaxy (first to just representitives, last one actual races) and then overcome your obstacles through the power of your combined resources and perspective. This them is completely thrown away in the end, It doesn't matter who you've united, the star child always gives you the same ending. Also this theme is contridicted by Jokers actions of leaving shepard. This theme is not presented by him and is more commonplace in the series than "entropy" which is a theme only because of the vagueness of the ending.

theres other themes he forgot to mention that are destroyed in the ending, but i don't have time to list them
also him apparently not caring about plot holes

[Aleru]

Well.... i do agree with this analysis. Is pretty much what i have been thinking about the endings.
The reapers were made invincible since the very beggining, how can shepard win the battle with the fleets only?
And Shepards sacrifice. Well... why not? You are actually sacrificing yourself for the good of the entire galaxy. Reapers, the race of sentient machines that have been destroying all organics live every 50 000 years are out there and you dont want to sacrifice your shepard? c'mon...

But im not sure about the sinthesys thing... and the final destroy option. Why we are showed shepard breathing at the end o the destroy option...and why the other endings dont have it?
I mean,,,that alone makes this whole analisys to fall apart.
Im not saying, however, that what this guy say is completely wrong. But he oversighted this.

I will wait for Bioware to explain the ending to me. Specially the final breathe part. What the hell is really happening.

I do not agree that they story is "Bad" because they were rushed. Since the first game they where working on this story... even if they havent it on paper, they must have been thinking about it a lot.

I think that there are mistakes in the script that affects story telling, but not in the story itself.

[alx119]

aliengmr1 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

And I've observed similar and worse behavior from people who hated the ending.  Doesn't mean I think everyone of that opinion is like that.

The difference is, the ending has only 3 defences.

"I liked it in spite of everything." -fine, whatever. But it's still objectively bad. You want to like it in spite of that? Go ahead.

"I made up my own ending!" -whether you admit it or not... this is not a good thing.

"You don't get it/it's over your head." -pseudo intellectualism really has no place here.

There are far more defences than that.  People's view on the ending is subjective.  To say it has plotholes, to say it breaks away from the major themes, all subjective.  Everything comes down to opinion.  The plotholes can be explained, the themes are there, and the implications of the endings vary. 

With respect, I disagree. While some parts are subjective there are quite a few that aren't. Even the article the OP linked said as much.

I disagree as well, the defence from the anti-enders is very objective in many many cases, even people who defend things of a more positive nature like Shepard surviving do so in a -very- objective way (Shepard's not a tragic hero, the whole series were left in positive tones, etc.) You can call an opinion subjective, but facts are part of the objective scenario of an opinion. 

[The Angry One]

Cyph3rX wrote...

Please take your worthless trololo posts somewhere else, along with narf, taz, and that useless rooster avatar guy I keep forgetting the name of. Shepard does deserve better fans, not useless trolls.

+1

[KingKhan03]

webhead921 wrote...

aliengmr1 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

And I've observed similar and worse behavior from people who hated the ending.  Doesn't mean I think everyone of that opinion is like that.

The difference is, the ending has only 3 defences.

"I liked it in spite of everything." -fine, whatever. But it's still objectively bad. You want to like it in spite of that? Go ahead.

"I made up my own ending!" -whether you admit it or not... this is not a good thing.

"You don't get it/it's over your head." -pseudo intellectualism really has no place here.

There are far more defences than that.  People's view on the ending is subjective.  To say it has plotholes, to say it breaks away from the major themes, all subjective.  Everything comes down to opinion.  The plotholes can be explained, the themes are there, and the implications of the endings vary. 

With respect, I disagree. While some parts are subjective there are quite a few that aren't. Even the article the OP linked said as much.

Agreed.  I don't think there is any way you can objectively say that your squad suddenly appearing on the normandy/ joker running away made any sense.  That was objectively bad writing, and a major plothole.  Come on, even pro enders like myself should acknowledge this.

Thank you finally someone acknowledges this that's what has me upset for the most part if the ending just made sense i wouldn't even be mad.

[Wolfen919]

The ending is simply bad on 2 major/key points:

1) so many plot holes to be believable by fans of the mass effect series

2) All the lies! ....regardless of any other argument, did Casey not state the ending would not end up being A, B, or C because that's what made Mass Effect unique or some crap? Right... poor ending or not, we still ended up getting A B C.

I don't believe any of the pro-enders truly understand why those of us that hate the game in fact hate the game. I'm not upset because shepard didn't ride on a laser-beam unicorn and therefore defeating the reapers.

Anywho, we'll see if Bioware makes it up to any of us, otherwise they will be seeing the consequences of their actions. I hope this game doesn't begin the downfall of Bioware's unfortunate bankruptcy, but... can't say we didn't ask them nicely to listen to the people whom buy their products.

Modifié par Wolfen919, 05 avril 2012 - 03:56 .

[alx119]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Yeah that's so.  I don't care about observations of behavior (and your observations of mine were incorrect anyway).  That's what I'm doing here, after all, so that would be hypocritical.  It's the fact that you jump down people's throats with little to no provocation, always assuming hostility.  Hell, I don't have a problem with the retake movement.  In fact, I hope you guys do wind up with something for all your efforts.

I speak with snark. Most people seem to be okay with this. If you take it personally... well.. don't?
I'm a person on the internet, I'm not going to eat you.

You're not gonna eat us? How about if I say pretty please? 

[Legendaryred]

If i knew i would need to major in arts or something similar i wouln't have bought the game. They should really put it on the box "WARNING, TO UNDERSTAND ME3 YOU NEED TO BE DEEP".

[Dridengx]

scrapmetals wrote...


If everyone is then Jennifer Hale is as well.

Glad you caught on, now if she is one of .....many still with me? Seeing how she's now just representing one and there is many.. her opinion is about as valid as anyone else

Modifié par Dridengx, 05 avril 2012 - 03:56 .

[Geneaux486]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Yeah that's so.  I don't care about observations of behavior (and your observations of mine were incorrect anyway).  That's what I'm doing here, after all, so that would be hypocritical.  It's the fact that you jump down people's throats with little to no provocation, always assuming hostility.  Hell, I don't have a problem with the retake movement.  In fact, I hope you guys do wind up with something for all your efforts.

I speak with snark. Most people seem to be okay with this. If you take it personally... well.. don't?
I'm a person on the internet, I'm not going to eat you.

Well golly, that's a load off of my mind.  No, I honestly don't give a rat's ass what you or anyone else says to me, what I take notice of is how other people are treated.  There is a double standard on this forum.  It goes both ways, people from opposing sides do act like dicks to one another, and I'm no exception, but when talking about sheer numbers, one side outnumbers the other.